Over the years of compiling and trending this data its something I've noticed about the 3 and the Honda Civic. Some odd months there is a huge dip or a huge rise in sales. Never could put my finger on it.

Yeah, but still a relatively new model... and it could have been a dealer inventory thing... I dunno, just shootin' darts .

My dad just helped BMW out in October as well, by buying a new 3 series for himself. They had a lot of great lease deals - and as I've done before - you can have the dealer work out a decent sale price based on their lease specials (i.e. go see a car advertised as a lease deal, but then buy it instead of leasing it).

He got a 5 speed 328 - which is exactly what he wanted - for over a thousand less than what the same car was advertised at 2 months prior.

Drive a new RX from NJ to CA, then on the way back drive a Touareg2. You'll have your answer. I don't hate Lexus whatsoever....well thats a lie...I actually do hate their new upscale OMG I love helping the Earth Corolla wanna-be Hybrid or the new....we chopped and stuffed some sheetmetal around Lexus IS convertible. When it comes to what you get for your money Lexus to ME. Let me just stress that free speech part....Me....you don't get much. I am not impressed with the RX's interior or its features. Personally I find the RX to be very very boring and it made me appreciate the Touareg much much more...& don't even get me started on the new LX. I just think the designers were high on paint chips when designing that lardbarge.

Eurojet Racing

The GX is the competitor for the Touareg. The RX is their volume SUV, it starts at 38k but can hit 60k with options. How is the Tourareg not boring either? The Cayenne is the interesting one.

Won't argue your other points your mind is made up.

# Eight: 2007 Land Rover LR3 HSE
# Seventh: 2007 Volkswagen Touareg V-6
# Sixth: 2007 Volvo XC90 Sport
# Fifth: 2007 Lexus GX470
# Fourth: 2007 Mercedes-Benz ML350
# Third: 2007 BMW X5 3.0si
# Second: 2007 Cadillac SRX AWD V-8
# First: 2007 Acura MDX Sport

http://www.caranddriver.com/re..._test

http://www.caranddriver.com/re....html

http://www.caranddriver.com/re....html

* Introduction
* Eighth: 2003 GMC Envoy SLT
* Seventh: 2003 Land Rover Discovery SE
* Fifth (tie): 2003 Lincoln Aviator
* Fifth (tie): 2003 Volvo XC90 T6
* Fourth: 2003 BMW X5 3.0i
* Third: 2003 Acura MDX
* Second: 2003 Lexus GX470
* First: 2003 Volkswagen Touareg

http://www.businessweek.com/au...5.htm

Volkswagen's Touareg SUV is as sophisticated, sprightly, and dead sexy as its name is awkward to spell and annoying to say. But at a time when Volkswagen of America is desperately trying to reaffirm its long-lost image as a quirky and clever manufacturer of cars for the rest of us, one has to wonder what this divine, all-terrain hunk of luxury is doing sporting, of all things, a V-Dub grill.

Apparently, potential Touareg buyers started asking themselves that very same question last year. Sales of the VW SUV tanked 43.7% in 2006, down to a niche-like 10,163 vehicles, according to Automotive News. High gas prices and competition for luxury, midsize SUVs that boiled over last year didn't help those sales figures much either.

They sold 519 last month, around 3500 Touaregs for the year. I think buyers disagree with you.

Modified by 1SICKLEX at 6:48 PM 11-3-2009

The genesis is far from the savior of hyundai the car lounge claims it to be.

Want your car drawn?|| Big wheels anger Vortexers,apparently. <3

I believe the sales goal coupe/sedan was 50,000 a year so they are far far below that. I don't understand why. Tons of positive press, marketing and they are great vehicles.

Is it the badge?

Quote, originally posted by Lumis_Wolfy »

The genesis is far from the savior of hyundai the car lounge claims it to be.

Hyundai needs to be saved? When did this happen?

Enter the dragon: argue with me about China here.

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Some people hate the Golf-based Audi A4, too.

Enter the dragon: argue with me about China here.

Avatars: do you want more of them? Join the revolution.

Quote, originally posted by Lumis_Wolfy »

The genesis is far from the savior of hyundai the car lounge claims it to be.

They don't need one.

it's a hyundai. One moderately slick package will not change the image they've had for a long time. Many have said that, but **** reality, this is the car lounge. If its RWD with power it hath been sent down by jesus himself and is insta-win. The GTO comes to mind, yet it's sales were the suck.

Want your car drawn?|| Big wheels anger Vortexers,apparently. <3

Sales numbers determine how good a car is? You must love Camrys.

Enter the dragon: argue with me about China here.

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You're blaming the product for lackluster packaging though. It's like the best tasting cereal in the world coming in a white box that says CEREAL.

No matter how good it is, the Trix will outsell it 10:1..

Er... Not entirely. It's got more to do with the fact that Hyundai hasn't competed in this category or at this level before. They've got to prove themselves before it starts moving more, but it's been a good show thus far.

Quote, originally posted by 1SICKLEX »

October 2009 Lexus 19,502 MB 18,193 BMW- 16,443 Caddy- 11,602 Acura- 9,751 Buick, 9,053 RX- 8,316 (comparisons sake) 3 series- 8,238 (comparisons sake) Audi- 7,358 Lincon- 6,735 Infiniti- 6,451 Volvo-4437 September 2009 Lexus-17,939 Mercedes- 16,985 BMW- 15,047 Cadillac- 11,339 Huge 5k increase! Buick- 9,455 RX-8,228 (for comparisons sake) Acura-7,259 Audi- 7,209 Infiniti- 6,610 3 series-6,523(for comparisons sake) Lincoln- 5,980 Volvo- 4,716 Saab- 484 Modified by 1SICKLEX at 4:35 PM 11-3-2009

Some of our "favorite" cars are consistently low on these lists, even when they are having "record breaking" years.

If Audi sold 2000 A8s in one year, they'd throw a party - and still be in last place..

I actually think Genesis sedan sales have been good comparing it to other "midsize luxury sedans." Its the coupe that it sucking wind big time, but looking at the 370Z numbers I think anything in this segment that wasn't a Camaro or a refreshed Mustang was doomed this year.

Quote, originally posted by GTRaavv »

I actually think Genesis sedan sales have been good comparing it to other "midsize luxury sedans." Its the coupe that it sucking wind big time, but looking at the 370Z numbers I think anything in this segment that wasn't a Camaro or a refreshed Mustang was doomed this year.

They aren't based on the same platform and never have been.

Read the post he was replying to. I'm pretty sure he's well aware that the A4 isn't based on the Golf.

Oh, I know. And the Lexus HS250h isn't based on the Corolla. Point is, when people say they hate something they know nothing about, it just comes off looking dumb.

Quote, originally posted by VW PAUL »

I actually do hate their new upscale OMG I love helping the Earth Corolla wanna-be Hybrid

Enter the dragon: argue with me about China here.

Avatars: do you want more of them? Join the revolution.

The U.S. auto market is so weird right now, who knows what will happen with the Genesis. If they don't launch a luxury brand they may well kill it off at some point in the future, but I doubt it. They're thinking long-term IMO. In South Korea the Equus and Genesis are doing quite well so I doubt they'll go away entirely. They already have an 8-speed auto and a supercharged V8 version of the Genesis lined up for the U.S. market next year, so at least for the time being, they are very serious about keeping it competitive in the marketplace. Last I heard, the next-gen Genesis sedan and coupe should have an AWD option and the coupe may get a V8 option.

The competition has a head start though and you can be sure they're not resting on there laurels.

Yeah the Challenger does decent, but it didn't come out this year.

You would think the cheaper Genesis coupe would be selling much better than the sedan, especially considering the Tiberon did fairly well. Perhaps Hyundai has an easier time selling luxury than it does sporty.

Of course. I don't believe I said anything that would indicate otherwise.

At the end of the day, competition is a good thing for the consumer, whether it be from Hyundai, Buick, Ford, Lexus, Audi, or even Acura (yes I said Acura.......after all, SH-AWD did help push the recent proliferation of torque-vectoring AWD systems IMO).

When has Hyundai claimed the Genesis to be its savior? By the way, you may want to look up the meaning of the word.

The Genesis arrived to the US market at a time when Hyundai has already turned the corner. The Genesis, in a lot of ways, has further improved upon the image of the brand, and has certainly transferred intangible benefits to the rest of the product line.

With Hyundai's sales bucking the trend this year, I truly believe the Genesis has had a role in this; not in the actual sales figures per se (could be better), but certainly getting perspective customers into the showroom; first-time Hyundai owners, conquest sales. The purchase may not be the Genesis but within the Hyundai product umbrella.

Seriously, Hyundai needs to have more driving events and really put the vehicles out there. These are 2 fantastic vehicles and the coupe really is smoking. The price is pretty excellent for what you get.

Camaro effect? I know they are not direct competitors but what gives?

Now what is crazy is they probably are still very profitable just based on exchange rates.

Quote, originally posted by jwaters943 »

Of course. I don't believe I said anything that would indicate otherwise. At the end of the day, competition is a good thing for the consumer, whether it be from Hyundai, Buick, Ford, Lexus, Audi, or even Acura (yes I said Acura.......after all, SH-AWD did help push the recent proliferation of torque-vectoring AWD systems IMO).

SHAWD is nice tech, its no selling point.

Modified by 1SICKLEX at 8:09 PM 11-3-2009

Oh I know you didn't. I just hope Hyundai doesn't think just because they build a competitive RWD sedan/coupe they will be a huge success in the NA market right off the bat.

The brand still has a stigma that even GM doesn't have to face.

I agree with you on the SHAWD.

Nobody buy's a car just for that feature. Chances are if you're going to buy an Acura you're not cross shopping it with better handling RWD vehicles.

Right. It really hasn't been "bad".

But the coupe's kind of the same story. The Tiburon wasn't necessarily a bad car or anything, but it was more of a... Scion tC competitor. Competing with the 370Z, Camaro and Mustang is kind of a new ballgame for Hyundai as well... and I can't really decide if it's the enthusiasts that are less forgiving to a new brand, or the entry-lux crowd. They're both big on established reputation, whether it's image/prestige or performance.

People on here keep lamenting over the lack of any affordible non-ponycar RWD coupes but the numbers are pretty dreadful. 350Z did well at first because it was cheap (and criticized left and right for the cutting on the interior) and had the Camaro pheonix rebirth thing going on. But I think the US clearly has shown when it comes to RWD coupes its either ponycar or 3-series coupe/A5/G37. It'll be very interesting to see if Toyota makes an impact.

Just for comparison, October TDI Jetta sedan+wagen sales:

3,658

(with almost equal parts for the two variants).

VW EV, plug-in Hybrid, and/or 1.4-2.0 VVT&VVL T/dual-charged FSI engines for the US would be useful...

So, no one buys a car for SH-AWD, but they do buy a car for RWD? And you may want to look up some reviews on the MDX, RDX and TL. I think you'll find they handle nearly as well, if not better overall than their RWD competition.

Honestly, I don't think the average consumer cares much whether their car is FWD, RWD or AWD. "Performance enthusiasts" will no doubt appreciate the benefits of AWD (be it SH-AWD or some other system), as well as RWD. While "green car enthusiasts" will likely appreciate FWD's reduced drivetrain loss and slight increase in fuel economy. For the other 90% of consumers I firmly believe that factors like styling, feature content, ride quality and "panache" matter much more than FWD or RWD.

Modified by jwaters943 at 5:45 PM 11-3-2009