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    Thread: (MrDave's) Rabbit TDI Project: Dyno results (or: Who needs a VR6?)

    1. 04-06-2004 11:37 AM #1
      The Rabbit TDI Project
      Appendix 1: Dyno Results

      or: Who needs a VR6?


      I've had two oportunities to dyno the little TDI pickup.

      Round 1: Baseline, Sept 2003
      specs: base install, stock injectors, stock chip



      So for an essentially stock engine, it put down 101HP to the wheels.
      Not too bad for an engine rated 90hp at the crank.
      A bone stock A4/mk4 2.0 ran 96hp earlier that day.
      Figuring that car is rated 115 crank, that should put my TDI at
      about 120hp at the crank.

      Round 2: Chip & injectors, April 2004
      specs: base install, .205 injectors, ASV ECU, Rocketchip 3.1



      So, change to a different ECU, add a chip, install injectors, and we're laughing. 149HP at the wheels, 276ft-lb torque.
      Using our same drivetrain loss as before, that should put the TDI
      to about 168hp at the crank.

      So, it's now worthwhile to look at an A4/mk4 VR6 dyno plot:

      http://homepages.vdubaddiction.com/n...m]Image source

      So here's an engine rated at 174hp crank, putting out 148hp to the wheels.
      Compared to my TDI which is putting out about the same power to the wheels, plus my TDI is running about 100 ftlbs more torque, AND I'm getting 50+ MPG.

      Why would anyone bother with a VR6?

      Keep in mind, my pickup is probably 800lbs ligher than an A4/mk4....


      Now the disclaimer bit:
      my two tests were done at the same location, but different weather conditions. My tests were obviously done at a different altitude and whatnot from where the VR6 was dyno'd. Plus, many people have issues
      about the validity of the DynoJet results, and so on and whatever.
      My first dyno was run in 4th, the second was run in 3rd gear. I had slightly
      larger tires for my chipped run. If one wants to get technical, we could
      talk about all this for hours. Let's not, but say we did.


      So where can we go from here?

      The next logical steps for improvement to the TDI would be larger injector
      pump, a fuel cooler, and different nozzles for the injectors. After that, we
      get into a different turbo, custom ECU programming, larger injectors (.216)
      headstuds, improved boost piping, larger exhaust and downpipe, and on
      and on, and that's just on the engine side.

      One would also have to get that power and torque to the ground, so we're talking about a big strong clutch, LSD, and perhaps Syncro or 4-motion.


      So where do I go from here?

      It's my daily driver, so it carries me to work and back...
      My injectors are a bit off balance, so I'll mess with that eventually.
      Currently, my next task is to install a stronger 02A tranny.

      150hp and 275ft-lb of torque, how long do you think the 020 will last?


      -Dave




      Part 1: Introduction
      Part 2: Installing the Engine
      Part 3: Transmission
      Part 4: Wiring 1
      Part 5: Speedometer and Cluster
      Part 6: ImmobilizerIII
      Part 7: Drive By Wire
      Part 8: Intercooler
      Part 9: Intake and Exhaust
      part 10: MFA and Cruise Control
      Part 11: The Dash
      Part 12: The Little Things
      Part 13: The End (for now)
      Part 14: 6spd transmission and brake upgrades
      One Year Later
      Dyno results
      Who Needs a VR6
      TDI Rabbit
      Last edited by MrDave; 02-16-2015 at 05:08 AM.

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    3. Member vr6Cop's Avatar
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      04-06-2004 12:40 PM #2
      Nice numbers [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
      Cheers, Adrian
      726 bottles of beer on the wall.

    4. 04-06-2004 05:28 PM #3
      thats its i'm going to go take a crap in my VR and send it back to the dealer...
      I'm impressed by the numbers, great upgrades and updates on the project

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    6. 04-06-2004 08:28 PM #4
      must have some cool gearing in there.
      I've always kept this bookmarked.
      http://www.ls1.com/handt.htm

    7. 09-30-2004 09:22 PM #5
      so, 3rd gear burnouts?

    8. 10-01-2004 12:31 PM #6
      Quote, originally posted by sik8v(2) »
      so, 3rd gear burnouts?

      If I wasn't worried about the tranny going 'boom'.
      -Dave

    9. 10-03-2004 11:34 PM #7
      I love you!!! [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

    10. 01-03-2005 12:55 AM #8
      i love ur post about the Horsepower and torque primer that is all physics i love it!!!!!

    11. 01-03-2005 03:24 AM #9
      "Why would anyone bother with a VR6?"
      So compare apples and oranges. Put a turbo on a vr6 and see what you have. Thats why. How much did you spend on injecters and chip?
      You nee to compare it to something different. If you put the similiar stuff on a Vr6 then you would not be the same.
      Great numbers though, im glad you happy about it. Deisel s make tons of torque, Thats the only thing i like about them. Im just biased . No hard feelings, Just compare some thing similiar. like and older TDI with the new stuff. Hell Id like to see a old turbo deisel from a rabbit , make those numbers. Someone out there can do it. [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

      Modified by [email protected] at 2:27 AM 1-3-2005


      Modified by [email protected] at 2:28 AM 1-3-2005

    12. 01-03-2005 08:18 AM #10
      Quote, originally posted by [email protected] »
      "Why would anyone bother with a VR6?"
      So compare apples and oranges. Put a turbo on a vr6 and see what you have. Thats why. How much did you spend on injecters and chip?
      You nee to compare it to something different. If you put the similiar stuff on a Vr6 then you would not be the same.
      Great numbers though, im glad you happy about it. Deisel s make tons of torque, Thats the only thing i like about them. Im just biased . No hard feelings, Just compare some thing similiar. like and older TDI with the new stuff. Hell Id like to see a old turbo deisel from a rabbit , make those numbers. Someone out there can do it. [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

      Modified by [email protected] at 2:27 AM 1-3-2005

      Modified by [email protected] at 2:28 AM 1-3-2005

      I don't think he meant it in a literal stand point but more as a jab at guys that run down vr6's like there the best engine vw ever made.
      Great numbers I plan on doing a tdi swap into a caddy when I get finished with my current project

    13. 09-09-2009 06:45 PM #11
      mr dave what did u do the strengthen up where the motor mounts to the rabbit to be able to handle the power? and will i be able to use my ecu and iggnition out of my car so i wont have immo problems?

    14. 09-10-2009 01:30 PM #12

      wow. Back from the dead.

      I didn't strenghten up the shell at all, the motor mounts themselves are pretty sturdy.
      Keep in mind I don't drive it hard, I'm afraid of making the tranny go boom.
      That being said, I have 220,000kms on the swap, so 220,000kms on an 020 tranny behind a chipped TDI.
      If you check with the big-power gas guys, the weakest point for the motor mounts is the front rad-support. There are kits out there that brace across between the bumper mounts and pickup the front support to stiffen the front end.

      Regarding the IMMO, AFAIK most chip tuners now have the ability to remove/disable the IMMO in the ECU.

      -Dave

    15. 09-10-2009 05:17 PM #13
      Yea my buddy had mentioned that about the immo. Were gonna crack down on the project after h2o and were hoping to be done for the spring. This will be the last year for the bug. I'm pretty sure with the power I have I'm gonna have to reinforce that mount. And I already have the strong o2a tranny so I won't have to worry about that. Just worried about the wiring. That's gonna confuse me I think. I'll be in touch with u this winter if we run into any problems. Thanks for the help man.
      -Donny

    16. Member DHill's Avatar
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      09-11-2009 03:12 PM #14
      Nice! Get yourself an 02A and start prepping it now. THen put a bigger turbo on it.

    17. 09-11-2009 05:06 PM #15
      I already have an o2j tranny with a wavetrac diff. And I already have a big turbo and PP502 injectors in it. I dyno'd last year at 152 hp and 270 tq. Now all I gotta do is put the motor in the caddy and hopefully have some better numbers

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