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20V Hybrid - How To

953K views 2K replies 232 participants last post by  Butcher 
#1 ·
EXTERNAL WATER PUMP BLOCK:
Quote, originally posted by John Doe »

1.How do I fit a 20V on a PG block?

The same way you would fit an 8V or 16V Head onto any old style external water pump block such as 9A/3A/PG/PM.
There are 3 Oil return ports at the rear of the head that need to be blocked as well one on the front.

* For the (3) Oil returns @ the rear ,you can either:
1. Weld them shut
2. Use (3) 3/8" NPT plug which is tapered and made to seal fluid passages.
* for the small Oil return @ the front ,if you have the:
1. PG Block you weld up the exisiting return and create a new one ("a") that matches the ABA Headgasket.
2. ABA Block you drill the ABA headgasket at the front oil return to match the AEB cylinder head.No modifications to the head are needed when using the crossflow blocks (ABA/9A/PL/AEB) since they have the necessary over hanging lip to ensure proper sealing of the headgasket.
Make sure you use an ABA 4-Layer Metal Headgasket to ensure proper sealing
PART # : 037 103 383 N
* For those wanting to know how to set the timing chain follow this useful link.
Quote, originally posted by John Doe »

2.How do I put a 20V Head onto a PG Block and still retain the distributor for Digi-I?

The whole point of this thread is too allow 8V PG G60 owners (and others) to upgrade there valvetrain without the need to upgrade there injection system.Jwatts & Mkrad have done alot of research and chip development (SNS Tuning) with Digi-I so getting a chip burnt for your application is not going to be too hard.
Anyways on with the show..for this your going to need the following pieces:
Quote, originally posted by What to Use »

1. CAM GEAR:
16V Cam Gear - 52T : 027 109 111H
2. CRANK GEAR:
16v Crankshaft Sprocket - 26T : 027 105 236B
3. INTERMEDIATE SHAFT GEAR:
Because your using a distribtuor you are going to want your camshaft & distributor to turn at a 1:2 ratio to the crankshaft.The only way to achieve this is by pressing on a 52T gear onto the IM shaft.In this case you have 2 options:
1. Using an AWP 20V (06B 109 111) Camshaft Gear and the 8V Intermediate shaft.Modify the keyway on the IM shaft to fit the camgear.The 8v used a press in half mood key way and the 20v cam gear uses a molded in 1/4 moon so it wont fit unless a path is cut in the IM shaft to fit the key onto the gear
2. Using the 16V Camshaft Gear along with the PL IM shaft.This maybe the more affordable route but it requires a spacer because the gear is going to be to far inward.
4. TIMINT BELT & TENSIONER - 153T BELT:
* OEM 9A 16V Timing belt Tensioner
Since we are usng a 220mm PG block then either of the following 151-153T belts will work.
All Belts should have a Curvilinear II profile
1. OEM AEB : PART# 058 109 119 C
5. PISTONS - 81mm
1. Stock AEB 1.8T Pistons
2. Custom set from JE Pistons through rhussjr
3. MAHLE 81.5mm upgrades from 034Motorsport
6. CONNECTING RODS:
1. AEB Connecting Rods - The PG connecting rods are too short and the wrist pin diameter on them is 22mm as opposed to the AEB's 20mm.These can be had as a combination all over vortex for under $150US
2. 9A 144mm Connecting rods with ARP rod bolts
3. Forged 144mm Connecting rods from SCAT,Pauter,Corillo,Eagle,etc


Quote, originally posted by John Doe »

3.How do I put a 20V Head onto an ABA Block and still retain the distributor?

The same procedure used for the PG block will be adapted to the ABA block.The ABA block has a deck height of 236mm so its going to need a longer belt and this is where the difference in belts come into play.
Quote, originally posted by ABA uses a longer 158T belt »

4. TIMINT BELT & TENSIONER - 158T BELT:
* OEM 9A 16V Timing belt Tensioner
* 52T IM Shaft gear used
All Belts should have a Curvilinear II profile
5. PISTONS - 82.5mm
1. Stock 9A 16V pistons with a relief cut for the #5 valve
2. Custom set from JE Pistons through rhussjr
6. CONNECTING RODS:
1. ABA Connecting Rods with ARP bolts
2. Forged 159mm Connecting rods from SCAT,Pauter,Corillo,Eagle,etc


Quote, originally posted by John Doe »

4.I want to build an ABA 20V but I dont need the distirbutor.What should my combination be like?

Well since your no longer using a distributor then your IM shaft does not need to spin @ 1:2 ratio to the crankshaft so the following applies:
Quote, originally posted by What to Use »

3. INTERMEDIATE SHAFT GEAR:
Stock 9A or PL Intermediate shaft with matching 43T IM shaft gear.Make sure you have the oil pump gear to correspond with your IM shaft.
4. TIMINT BELT & TENSIONER - 157T BELT:
* OEM 9A 16V Timing belt Tensioner
All Belts should have a Curvilinear II profile
1. Contitech : PART# STD 1256 S8M - A260107
2. Gates : PART # 5432XS
(Belt is from 1996 Fiat Bravia 1.6L 16v AH)

Quote, originally posted by John Doe »

5.What additional parts will I need?

* Exhaust Manifold from an Audi A3/VW Golf 1.8 20V NA - PART# 06A 253 031 E
* Intake Manifold from an Audi TT Quattro - PART# 06A 133 223 AT or custom make your own.
* Accessory Pulley's
All the accessory's will align the same except for the crankshaft unit.You will need to either:
A. Purchase an ABA unit and machine it down 5.9mm
B. Purhcase a Diesel unit from Smokinjoe644
* Optional Cogged Gear Pulley's
* OEM Turbo Oil Pan [PART #:068 103 601 L]
* Breather Block off plate for 9A/ABA block : This can be sourced from forum elder Peter Tong




INTERNAL WATER PUMP BLOCK:
Quote, originally posted by John Doe »

6.How do I impliment a distributor for Digi-I on an AWP 1.8T block?

Some users dont want to go through the hassle of building a Hybrid motor and would prefer to start with a new engine from a 2002+ VW Golf/Jetta 1.8T.The obvious advantage to doing this is the low mileage and the availability of parts.Unfortunately for some users,the AWP/AWW/etc engines require full SEM systems (034EFi,etc) in order to get them up and running.Allthough SEM is an excellent choice,it is not smog legal in some States.A way around this is by implimenting Digi-I or similar fuel injection systems.
ReflexTuning offers a kit that allows users who have access to a new style 1.8T engine to run a distributor in the place of stock Hall/Camshaft position sensor allowing them to use Digi-I.The end result is a rather slick looking set up and requires no additional parts by the user.(other than the engine ofcourse)
Quote, originally posted by John Doe »

7.Well I managed to score an AEG engine for dirt cheap and now I want to put a 20V head on it,what do I need to do?

Well the fortunate thing about the AEG engine is that it is an internal water pump block engine,therefore the rear oil returns in the head do not need to be modified,however quite a few parts are needed.
Quote, originally posted by What parts are needed »

1. PISTONS:
The stock AEG pistons compensate for the 8V's 10:1 CR rather nicely but when paired with a 20V head,the CR drops to ~ 8.2:1 which is ideal for FI applications.Because the AEG block has an 82.5mm bore,sourcing stock "1.8T" 81mm pistons would be a waste of time and notching the allready low quality AEG pistons for a #5 valve is asking for trouble.The AEG 20V REQUIRES you to purchase custom pistons from either:
1. JE (through JRC Motorsports)
2. Weisco
As you will not find 82.5mm 20V pistons with a low CR.
2. CONNECTING RODS:
Just like the stock AWP 1.8T,the AEG also has weak connecting rods (rated @ 350bhp).Since the AEG 20V is a custom build it is recommended that you upgrade with forged units either from:
* Pauter
* Corillo
* SCAT (most affordable)
3. TIMINT BELT & TENSIONER:
* OEM AWP/AWW 1.8T Timing belt
All Belts should have a Curvilinear II profile
4. HEAD GASKET:
06B 103 383 AF - European head gasket with the 3 oil returns.AEG headgasket does not have the 3 rear oil returns.
5. PARTS NEEDED FROM 1.8T ENGINE:
Because your starting with a non-Turbo engine block,expect to need some stock 1.8T parts.You can always improvise with aftermarket components but having stock available is always a plus.
* oil filter bracket (you can tap the stock AEG bracket for an oil feed)
* coolant Lines & hoses
* Coolant return line for turbocharger - This requires the rear of the AEG block for the coolant return fitting.
* Hyrbid Oil Pan
* Intake manifold
* Exhaust manifold

The End Result courtesy of Twinscrew20V:

& Eurosport

The collected information and projects in this thread is simply amazing...
Special Thanks goes out to the following as they made this happen:
* Shawn DeZego who has been nothing but GREAT with his helpfullness and attention to detail!Below is an image of the current state of his ABE G60 Project.

(click image to enlarge)
* Twinscrew20V
* Scirocco20v/GTibunny16v
* rhussjr
* smokinjoe644
Other Vortexer Projects:
Westcoastjay's Proect thread
WolfGTI's Project thread
**Useful thread on FI ITB's**
Some Additional Information that I found/Calculated:
Quote, originally posted by Head Chamber CC's »

PG 8V Head Chamber = 29cc (counterflow)
PL 16V Head Chamber = 49cc
ABA 8V Head Chamber = 30cc (crossflow)
AEB 20V Head Chamber = 42cc

Quote, originally posted by ROD RATIO and other Values for Common VW Hybrid's »

Block = PG
Deck Height = 220mm
Rod Length = 136mm
Stroke = 86.4mm
ROD RATIO = 1.57
Bore = 81mm
Compression Height = 40.8mm
Wrist Pin Diameter = 22mm
Displacement = 1780cc
Block = 3A/9A
Deck Height = 220mm
Rod Length = 144mm
Stroke = 92.8mm
ROD RATIO = 1.55
Bore = 82.5mm
Compression Height = 29.6mm
Wrist Pin Diameter = 20mm
Displacement = 1984cc
Block = ABA
Deck Height = 236mm
Rod Length = 159mm
Stroke = 92.8mm
ROD RATIO = 1.71
Bore = 82.5mm
Compression Height = 30.6mm
Wrist Pin Diameter = 21mm
Displacement = 1984cc
TDI CRANK
Block = ABA
Rod Length = 159mm
Stroke = 95.5
ROD RATIO = 1.67
Bore = 83.5mm
Compression Height = 29.25mm
Wrist Pin Diameter = 21mm
Displacement = 2091cc
ABA CRANK
Block = ABA
Rod Length = 159mm
Stroke = 92.8mm
ROD RATIO = 1.71
Bore = 83.5mm
Compression Height = 30.6mm
Wrist Pin Diameter = 21mm
Displacement = 2032cc
AEB 1.8T CRANK
Block = ABA
Rod Length = 159mm
Stroke = 86.4mm (AEB Crank)
ROD RATIO = 1.84
Bore = 83.5mm
Compression Height = 33.8mm
Wrist Pin Diameter = Whatever Piston you choose
Displacement = 1892cc

For those of you that have hybrid parts for sale.Feel free to post them in here but please follow the rules.


Modified by Issam Abed at 10:25 PM 7-15-2009
 
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6
#77 ·
Re: (Wizard-of-OD)

No. If you run an SNS chip you no longer need the WOT switch just the idle switch. I just mount one on the TB. I have heard you can take apart the OBD 1 TPS to make it just an idle switch but Im not sure if that info is true. Ill have to look at the one Im getting to see if that is possible.
 
#78 ·
Re: (Wizard-of-OD)

Quote, originally posted by Wizard-of-OD »

Isnt that just a 20V Valve cover on a 16V engine?CIS on a 20V....



im glad u know the difference now.
by the way.. this set up by far even with cis is one of the most pissed off set ups yet. the car pulls like a freight train. not only scary, its.. ..unnnbeeelieeevabllee.
yade govna pedaras.
haha.
seriously. its a crzy set up. i have asked him to replicate for me when i had my car, but. .. its a secret
 
#79 ·
Re: (tnesh)

Quote, originally posted by tnesh »


im glad u know the difference now.

We allready established that Fact....moving along http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
As for the CIS why dont you tell us more about it.
Quote, originally posted by Scirocco20v »
No. If you run an SNS chip you no longer need the WOT switch just the idle switch. I just mount one on the TB. I have heard you can take apart the OBD 1 TPS to make it just an idle switch but Im not sure if that info is true. Ill have to look at the one Im getting to see if that is possible.

Ok so the TPS in the Digi I is only 2 Pin?
what are there functions? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


Modified by Wizard-of-OD at 11:21 AM 3-28-2006
 
#81 ·
Re: (Scirocco20v)

Quote, originally posted by Scirocco20v »
No TPS so to speak with digi 1.
Digi 1 uses an idle switch and WOT switch. Idle switch is to cut fuel on decel and activate the ISV. WOT switch is for fuel enrichment. TPS is uses so the ECU knows where the butterfly position is all the time.

Any possibility of converting an 3 Pin TPS to a 2 Pin Idle Switch?
 
#90 ·
Re: (GTi Leo)

Quote, originally posted by GTi Leo »
can the 20v head be swapped on a AEG like what was said before it has the water pump but i was never told if it could be doneand what holes i need to plug up and what i need to take out

None http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
AEG = New Style Block with 5 return holes
AEB = New Style Head with 5 return holes.
 
#92 ·
Re: (TwinScrew20v)

Quote, originally posted by TwinScrew20v »
Remember the AEG is also a shorter block and uses shorter rods than the 20v. I want to say they were 139mm??? Theyre not the G60s 136mm but theyre in the upper 130s. You'll have to double check that length. And the 20v rods are 144mm.
i have heard 141mm but you would think VW would stick with 144s. Anyway 20V head bolts straight on AEG type block but need to replace/modify pistons.
 
#94 ·
what about the timming belt is it the same size as the stock 2.0 or 1.8T or do i have to get a longer or shorter one
and who knows how much power the AEG bottom can handle i was told i would need to change the rods crank and piston after 220 whp


Modified by GTi Leo at 4:47 PM 12-7-2004
 
#95 ·
Re: (GTi Leo)

Quote, originally posted by GTi Leo »
what about the timming belt is it the same size as the stock 2.0 or 1.8T or do i have to get a longer or shorter one
and who knows how much power the AEG bottom can handle i was told i would need to change the rods crank and piston after 220 whp


I didnt think VWAG made butter Cranks.Your going to have to change the rods and pistons regardless if you want a desireable Compression Ratio.
As for the Timing Belt,the Stock 1.8T timing belt as the AEG has the same block highet as the AEB/AWD Blocks.
 
#97 ·
Re: (GTi Leo)

Quote, originally posted by GTi Leo »
i'm putting the whole top half of a 1.8T so the turbo and the manifold and head so the compression no matter will be bumped up to a nice compression. wouldn't it????

Ah
well I am not sure about the AEG but it should have a stock CR of 10:1.Now I am going to compare this to the ABA 8V which has a stock CR of 10:1.Placing a 20V head on an ABA block brings the CR down to 8.5:1 or there abouts.
My advice would be to get custom pistons made as you will have to cut a recess in that piston for the #5 valve. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
 
#98 ·
Re: (Wizard-of-OD)

Quote, originally posted by Wizard-of-OD »

Ah
well I am not sure about the AEG but it should have a stock CR of 10:1.Now I am going to compare this to the ABA 8V which has a stock CR of 10:1.Placing a 20V head on an ABA block brings the CR down to 8.5:1 or there abouts.
My advice would be to get custom pistons made as you will have to cut a recess in that piston for the #5 valve. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

what do you mean by that
yeah stock compression is 10:1 and i'm still desiding weather to get a beefyer turbo and get forge internals
 
#101 ·
Re: (GTi Leo)

Quote, originally posted by Wizard-of-OD »

OBDI or OBD II?

Quote, originally posted by GTi Leo »
lol thats it but yeah so i donno i may need to get the pistons custom but the ones on the G60 or other 2.0s don't need to be done???

They all Need to be done except with a PG block you can use the original stock 1.8T rods and pistons.For the 2.0 Applications I recommend giving Rodney Huss (rhussjr) a Buzz as he can get JE pistons for the 20V fr around $550US in 83mm bore.You can use the AEG conrods for the time being and if in the future you feel skeptical about them,you could always have Pauter make a set to match your crank and JE pistons http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif



Modified by Wizard-of-OD at 2:20 PM 10-10-2005
 
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