VWVortex.com - My 16v Megasquirt Write-up
Username or Email Address
Do you already have an account?
Forgot your password?
  • Log in or Sign up

    VWVortex


    Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
    Results 1 to 25 of 93

    Thread: My 16v Megasquirt Write-up

    1. 11-15-2005 05:38 PM #1
      Hello guys and gals, I thought I'd try to make a detailed write up on installing and running megasquirt in a 16v bunny. I'll write everything in sections from start to finish. Here she goes...

      First off is the layout.
      I had cis-e in the car prior to ms so I had to make the decision to either keep everything on the driver's side (default) or put everything on the passenger side (mk2 layout). I put lots of thinking into this and came to the conclusion that I wanted to clean things up around the tranny for easier access to things.
      I decided that I wanted to do everything as correct as I could which meant spending a little more cash then I wanted to. When converting everything to the driver's side there are a couple of things you must do. First is the obvious, the intake itself. I ended up using a stock mk2 upper intake manifold and mounted that to the lower rocco piece. Second is the throttle cable. I used a stock mk2 cable which worked out perfect. Everything fit right and worked out nicely.
      Second was fuel.
      Since I was moving everything to the other side I also had to do something about my fuel feed and return. I followed the hard lines as far back as I could and determined that they came up on the passenger side of the engine compartment which made my life a little easier. They basically come up against the fire wall and make a hard 90deg angle over to the driver side of the car. I ended up using a pipe cutter to cut both feed and return lines right below the 90deg angle.
      At the time I didn't have a flaring tool so I went to a hardware store and bought a couple of compression fittings. The hard line has a outer diameter of 1/4 inch so when you buy them make sure they are for that size. They pretty much slip over the hard line and you tighten them to make a good seal. After that, I used barbed nipple fittings so I could install some rubber fuel injection line toward the front of the car. I decided to run 3/8 feed line and 5/16 return line so I ended up getting the corresponding nipple fittings for each fuel line ran.
      The whole idea of having rubber line so close to the exhaust really scared me. I ended up sliding some thermo sleeve over the the fuel line from the bottom all the way up the the strut tower just for peace of mind. Now on to the fuel rail, fpr, and injectors. As many know, the 16v never came with a fuel rail except for the ABF which was never sold here so I needed to order an after market one. There are many on the market and I couldn't tell ya if one is better than the other.
      When it was time for me to buy one, bbm had theirs on sale so I purchased the rail and the fpr adaptor from them. By default the rail comes with a straight -6AN feed fitting which is approximately for 3/8 rubber line. Since I had everything on the passenger side I ditched the straight fitting and bought a 180deg -6AN fitting so I could run the line easier and make it look cleaner. Before I get carried away on the rest of the fuel I almost forgot the injectors. I ended up using a stock set of aba injectors off of a mk3.
      They are high impedance and flow about 17 lbs/hr which should be enough for any stock application. To use any kind of electronic injector on the 16v head will require digifant injector inserts. They pretty much screw into your lower intake mani and replace your stock brass inserts. Once you get those in, the fuel rail and injectors mate right up. Also, be sure to use new injector o-rings. We don't want any vacuum leaks keeping your car from running right. Now that that's all done I'll move on to the fpr.
      I used a stock 3 bar fpr off of a volvo which is the same as a stock digi 2 unit. The fpr mounts onto the fuel rail using the fpr adaptor purchased from bbm. It mounts the same way it did on the volvo or a digi 2 car. Earlier in this section I had said that I used 5/16 return line. Now I get to explain why. The output of the stock bosch fpr is a 5/16 nipple so using the 5/16 line worked out perfect. The smaller diameter line is ok for the return line because there isn't as much pressure passing through it like the feed line.
      Last but not least is the fuel filter. I decided to get a new oem cis filter and relocate it to the rear of the vehicle like the later cars. There really isn't a easy way to do this. I purchased a 12x1.5 -6 AN (iirc) banjo fitting from summit and installed that right after the fuel pump where the stock check valve was. I then purchased a couple more AN fittings from a local fitting shop. They were 14x1.5 to -6 AN fittings that threaded right into the stock fuel filter. I then ran 3/8 fuel injection line from the -6 AN that was on the fuel pump to the -6 AN that was on the filter feed inlet.
      On the hard line at the back of the car near the fuel pump I just used another 1/4 inch compression fitting with a 3/8 inch nipple so I could run rubber line to it. From there I ran more fuel injection line from that barb to the -6 AN coming out of the fuel filter. I think that's pretty much it for the fuel section.
      On to the third section: Megasquirt.
      This section is gonna be a little less mk1 specific. There are a couple of things you have to decide on to get megasquirt running on your 16v veedub. First off is the throttle body. There are really only two options here. One is the automatic 16v passat tb or you can make a bracket and add a gm tps sensor to your existing tb. I took the easy route and picked up a automatic passat throttle body.
      The reason I chose this one is because its pretty much the only 16v car that came with a tps sensor from the factory. Another obstacle was the intake pipe. I did a lot of looking around and found out that the 92-95 civic (that's right I said it) short ram intakes fit pretty good. I made a couple of modifications to the tube. I first decided to take an inch off the end at the tb side to make it fit a little better. I also had to drill a hole on the bottom side for the intake air temp sensor.
      After that was all said and done, I sanded and sprayed the pipe black. I used the stock 16v intake elbow which barely fit (really tight) on the pipe but still worked out quite well. For the filter I just bought a generic 3.5 inch cone filter and mounted that up into place. That pretty much sums up the whole intake setup. Now onto the sensors and megasquirt layout. For the coolant temp and O2 sensors I ended up using all the stock bosch stuff.
      By default, megasquirt comes preconfigured for gm sensors (air & coolant) but you can do as I did and setup the bosch values for the coolant temp sensor using a program called easy therm. I decided to use the gm air intake temp sensor cause it was cheap and was already configured in ms. It's up to you, though. You can use bosch all the way around if you'd like. As I said earlier, I used the stock three wire O2 sensor.
      I fed the signal wire to my relay board and hooked one of the other two (O2 heater) wires to a switched 12v source and grounded the other. Also, there is quite a bit of wiring to do. I made my injector harness and all the other sensor harnesses as well. It's really not as difficult as it sounds though. Now on to the megasquirt mounting and layout. I ended up getting a relay board to make wiring easier. It's something you don't really need but it makes trouble shooting a whole lot easier.
      With the relay board in hand I now needed a place to put it. My car isn't a track car or a daily driver but I've been wanting to tear out my heater box for some time now (less weight). This was another reason to remove it. I removed the heater box, sealed up the openings and mounted my relay board in my rain tray. Now that I had all of that done I had to mount the ms box itself. I decided to mount it underneath my passenger side seat so I bought a 6' DB37 cable from RS Autosport.
      I ended up running that and a 5/32 size vacuum line under my carpet to the ms box. The reason for the vacuum line is because ms comes with a built in map sensor which needs to be hooked up to some kind of engine vacuum source to get a map reading. I ended up feeding it into my one-way valve on my brake booster vacuum line. Alright, we're almost done here. Last but not least is spark. By default megasquirt only does fuel but can be "reflashed" to run both fuel and spark if need be.
      Even if you don't want ms to handle your spark I would still recommend reflashing to the ms'N's -Extra code. It's a nice upgrade in general, mainly giving a 12x12 fuel table over the default 8x8. I decided that temporarily I would use the factory knock box setup for spark just so id only have to battle one thing instead of two if problems did arise. Once I get the fuel all dialed in I plan on going with a coil pack setup (no more oil filled dizzy). Oh yea, one last thing... The ISV.
      I ditched it because it's definitely not needed. I went to a machine shop and had a nice block off plate made for 20 bucks, went home and painted it. My car starts right up and idles pretty good considering it doesn't have any form of idle control. Anywho, I think that's it. I have to thank a bunch of people for helping me out with the whole thing. Thank you martyn_16v, OttawaG60, MidnightGLI, CrackerX, and of course I can't forget my lovely g/f for putting up with me.

      -Chris


      (Edit) I also added a price breakdown and a bunch of pictures for your viewing pleasure













      Megasquirt Price Breakdown

      (All Prices Include Tax And Shipping)


      - Throttle Cable = $15.50
      - Four Injector O-Ring Kits = $17.93
      - Four Digi Injector Inserts = $18.62
      - BBM Fuel Rail & FPR Adaptor = $173.72
      - Megasquirt PCB v2.2, Relay Board & GM IAT Sensor = $210.00
      - Automatic Passat TB = $47.29
      - DB37 Cable & GM IAT Connector = $51.72
      - 16g Wire & Tape For Harness = $45.33
      - 180deg -6 AN fitting & Other Mics Fittings = $27.96
      - 96-00 Civic Short Ram Pipe & Filter = $30.77
      - 3/8 Fuel Injection Line (Feed), 5/16 Fuel Line (Return) & Hose Clamps = $28.31
      - Fuel Pressure Gauge, FP Gauge Fitting, Fuel Filter & Fuel Fittings = $91.13
      - More Hose Clamps & 5/32 Vacuum Line = $11.83
      - ABA Injectors & Digi 2 FPR = Free
      - Dynamat And Thermo Sleeve = $ 24.56
      - Zip Ties, Shrink Tube, Wire Sleeving = $39.85
      And for a grand total of... $834.52
      Before Picture




      Modified by Captain16vGTI at 9:47 PM 5-18-2007

    2. Remove Advertisements

      Advertisements
       

    3. Senior Member urogolf's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 10th, 2000
      Location
      Somerset, MA
      Posts
      24,993
      Vehicles
      13 Plug In Prius, 15 Venza
      11-15-2005 06:00 PM #2
      awesome writeup!!!!!
      ................................................www.CCCIS.com

    4. Member EuroRabbit's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 4th, 2003
      Location
      Vermont
      Posts
      2,635
      Vehicles
      86 Cabby, 90 VR Jetta, 86 GTI
      11-15-2005 06:02 PM #3
      How dose it run? Have you dynoed it yet?
      Thanks VWvortex for the hard work!

    5. Remove Advertisements

      Advertisements
       

    6. 11-15-2005 07:52 PM #4
      Thanks for the compliments guys [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] . I still don't have it all the way tuned yet and its still way better then my cis-e was. Its kinda hard to tune without a wb o2 sensor because you never really know where your at. Once I get that taken care of im gonna get a lot more tuning done and also put in some dyno time. Ill keep everyone up to date through this thread. If you guys want any specific pictures please let me know. Thanks again

      -Chris

    7. Senior Member vdubspeed's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 18th, 2002
      Location
      Valdosta, GA
      Posts
      20,933
      Vehicles
      I quit counting.
      11-15-2005 08:06 PM #5
      So I ask you a question on IM and you write a thread about it
      Thanks!
      I'll add this thread to the official 16V thread fo sho.
      Peace,
      Jason


      Modified by vdubspeed at 11:05 PM 11-18-2005
      Built > Bought
      58 Beetle | 79 Rabbit 20vT | 84 GTI TDI |84 GTI 16vT |12 Golf TDI ----89 325i | 03 2500hd 24VCummins/NV4500/NP205 | 02 Burb 4x4 2500

    8. 11-15-2005 09:11 PM #6
      nice

    9. 11-15-2005 09:41 PM #7
      Best click investment in a long time.

    10. 11-15-2005 10:53 PM #8
      Nice set up...motor specs?

    11. 11-15-2005 11:14 PM #9
      Thanks guys, Currently the engine is a bone stock 1.8l with a tt 2.25 cat back (no cat). After I get my wb I think im just gonna do some euro cams and a couple of other small things. Thanks again guys

      -Chris

      P.S. I was gonna pm you back Jason but I figured you'd run into the post anyway. Thanks for adding this write up to your thread [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]


      Modified by Captain16vGTI at 8:16 PM 11-15-2005

    12. 11-16-2005 09:01 PM #10
      Great info, thanks for sharing. MS is one of the many fun projects I have floating around in my head for my 16v. I look forward to seeing your dyno results......a while back there was some huge controversy caused by a girl who claimed that her 2.0 16v on MS with TT street cams and a few minor bottom end tweaks produced 177 whp on a Dynojet.
      One small nit-picky thing though.............
      Quote, originally posted by Captain16vGTI »
      After I get my wb I think im just gonna do some euro cams and a couple of other small things.

      There are no Euro "cams", plural, there is just a Euro intake 16v cam. I say go for the gusto and just buy a proper aftermarket set, especially if you're paying for the labour. If you can pop it in yourself in an afternoon, it's not so bad I guess.

    13. 11-17-2005 01:57 AM #11
      Thanks for the kind words [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] . It has been very fun for me so far but I will be honest and say that ms is no miracle power maker. Its just a cheap stand alone, that's it. As far as the cams go, I was pretty much referring to some mild street cams. I guess euro cams was wrong wording. I could probably get the cams in there in a few hours so I would be saving money on labor. Im gonna be ordering the Innovate lc-1 wideband with in the next couple of days. Ill also be adding that step by step to this write up. Thanks again guys

      -Chris

    14. 11-17-2005 02:04 AM #12
      Quote, originally posted by Mr Black »
      .a while back there was some huge controversy caused by a girl who claimed that her 2.0 16v on MS with TT street cams and a few minor bottom end tweaks produced 177 whp on a Dynojet.

      Well you know 84_GLI_coupe's car made this on the dyno. A n/a JH 1.8 8v on MS...not sure what all was done to the motor but a 1.8 8v no less.

    15. 11-17-2005 02:22 AM #13
      Quote, originally posted by deathhare »
      Well you know 84_GLI_coupe's car made this on the dyno. A n/a JH 1.8 8v on MS...not sure what all was done to the motor but a 1.8 8v no less.


      That dyno run seems reasonable with the right mods. The whole 177 whp with a couple of mods is just sketchy period. I still remember that whole post back in the day. It blew up pretty quick (total flamage). Dyno time for me probably wont be any time soon to be honest. I still have a lot of other things I need to do to the car. When I do, you guys will definitely be the first to know.
      -Chris

    16. 11-17-2005 06:32 PM #14
      Quote, originally posted by deathhare »
      Well you know 84_GLI_coupe's car made this on the dyno. A n/a JH 1.8 8v on MS...not sure what all was done to the motor but a 1.8 8v no less.

      Yeah, I actually just saw that over in another post on the Mk1 forum and asked him for more details, cause it is mighty impressive.
      However, it must be said that the girl also had a legit dyno sheet showing the 177 whp result for her 16v.......but it's fairly common knowledge that dyno numbers can be manipulated.
      Anyhoo, that topic is for another thread. Just let us know when you get some results

    17. Member slivervibe's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 17th, 2004
      Location
      Los Angeles
      Posts
      600
      Vehicles
      78 Rabbit 1.8t, 11 A4 Avant
      11-17-2005 09:26 PM #15
      Quote, originally posted by Captain16vGTI »
      Thanks for the kind words [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] . It has been very fun for me so far but I will be honest and say that ms is no miracle power maker. Its just a cheap stand alone, that's it. As far as the cams go, I was pretty much referring to some mild street cams. I guess euro cams was wrong wording. I could probably get the cams in there in a few hours so I would be saving money on labor. Im gonna be ordering the Innovate lc-1 wideband with in the next couple of days. Ill also be adding that step by step to this write up. Thanks again guys

      -Chris

      Innovate lc-1 is the way to go. There are euro intake and exaust cams from the ABF motors. Techtonics sells them. I have heard good things.
      Dump the knock sensor. It is so dam easy and works great. If you use EDIS I think you will end up with a rev limiter. The factory distributor works great with Megasquirt and has no rev limiter.

    18. 11-17-2005 09:50 PM #16
      Quote, originally posted by slivervibe »
      There are euro intake and exaust cams from the ABF motors. Techtonics sells them. I have heard good things.

      When people talk about a "Euro" intake cam, they are referring to the intake cam from the euro-spec KR motor (1.8l, found in Scirocco 16v and Mk2 Golf GTI's). It is worth a couple of ponies, but as I said to the guy who started this post it is a pretty mild upgrade and hardly worth paying for the install UNLESS you can do it yourself.
      The cam SET you are referring to is Techtonics' Sport set, which is similar to the ABF cams but not identical. This is generally a worthwhile upgrade to any 16v as long as you don't have radical top-end power expectations.

    19. Member
      Join Date
      Apr 3rd, 2001
      Location
      Vancouver Island, BC
      Posts
      2,746
      Vehicles
      84 GLI 2.0L 8v
      11-17-2005 11:13 PM #17
      Wow, didn't realize that people actually paid attention to me now.
      A quick question: You said you bought a DB37 cable, do you know what qauge the wires are? Or did you have one made?
      As for the 16v cams, the ABF aren't the good ones. The ABF is actually de-tuned by crap cams and the software. Euro 1.8 16V cams are an upgrade for the ABF engines.
      As for my dyno run, that was with what turned out to be a blown engine. I was very surprised by the results myself, I was hoping to MAYBE hit 140whp after dropping in my Web 280. Same dyno that CdnDub made his 153whp on. I've posted my mods several times, some people actually saw the list. I won't post it here, because this thread belongs to a fellow proud MS owner! [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

    20. 11-18-2005 10:18 AM #18
      Quote, originally posted by 84_GLI_coupe »
      As for the 16v cams, the ABF aren't the good ones. The ABF is actually de-tuned by crap cams and the software. Euro 1.8 16V cams are an upgrade for the ABF engines.

      Sorry man, this is absolutely incorrect, and if anyone wants to check it, please see:
      http://techtonicstuning.com/cams.asp
      The ABF is generally thought to be restricted by its software, not the cams. Sure, they could be more aggressive, but for a streetable factory motor they are pretty beefy.

    21. 11-18-2005 08:06 PM #19
      Quote, originally posted by Mr Black »
      Sorry man, this is absolutely incorrect, and if anyone wants to check it, please see:
      http://techtonicstuning.com/cams.asp
      The ABF is generally thought to be restricted by its software, not the cams. Sure, they could be more aggressive, but for a streetable factory motor they are pretty beefy.

      Not disagreeing with you but that link doesnt seem to say anything about abf cams at all

    22. 11-20-2005 01:10 PM #20
      Quote, originally posted by deathhare »
      Not disagreeing with you but that link doesnt seem to say anything about abf cams at all

      The TT Street cams are very close to the actual ABF specs. You can see that the lift is 0.423", and the duration at 0.050" is 214 deg intake and exhaust, compared to figures of .378"/207deg and 0.402"/215 deg for the 9A set WITH Euro intake cam.

    23. Member A1pocketrocket's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 28th, 2002
      Location
      Long Beach, CA
      Posts
      3,620
      Vehicles
      1982 Jetta Diesel, 1981 Rabbit Shell, 2007 GSX-R750
      11-20-2005 01:26 PM #21


    24. Member T3Bunny's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 30th, 2005
      Posts
      2,661
      Vehicles
      2001 Golf GL VR6. 1977 Rabbit
      11-28-2005 07:20 PM #22
      Chris your being a little too modest here man!
      Quote, originally posted by CdnDub »
      Great writeup, and a nice clean MS install.. i'm curious though, why not have it control the ignition as well
      as a side note, I helped with the MS on that 16V that dyno'd at kinetic, Shawn asked me for help since he didnt know MS at the time.
      The car was running very poorly at the start due to clogged fuel lines <they were rubber hydraulic hose not fuel rated>
      once all that was sorted out, it was a wickedly fast car, i street tuned it before it went on the dyno and it felt like it was easily nearing 150-160whp <i was in the passenger seat with a laptop while Jeremy from kinetic drove>. 2 200lb guys in a full interiored Mk2
      The dynojet numbers are kinda high but the Dyno at kinetic is known to be fairly accurate <just has high numbers when setup to match a dynojet>
      If you compared those numbers to a more realistic Mustang or a regularly calibrated dyno dynamics i'm sure it would come out closer to a real ~160whp

      This was in referance to posting the link for the writeup in the MegaSquirt thread.

    25. 11-28-2005 07:25 PM #23
      looks like theres no rain tray gaurds, what happens if it rains?

    26. 11-28-2005 09:33 PM #24
      Well i've been super busy lately but I figured id write a little update. Not much has happened in the last week or two but I am installing the wb as we speak. I was gonna do a write up on that but there really isn't much to explain. I will have some pictures when im done though. In regards to the rain tray. I don't really drive the car that much. Its more of a weekend fun car . I did order a new case for my relay board that has the top included so I can close that up and soon I need to get my arss down to the dealer and buy the rain tray for it. At the moment im not to worried though. I should hopefully have some pictures of the wb install up either tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again for the props guys [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

      -Chris

    27. 11-28-2005 10:53 PM #25
      Great write up thanks. [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] By the way I met you at the Nov. 13th GTG I was down from Seattle

    Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •