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    Thread: Drive by Wire with TDI/MK2 swap

    1. 12-15-2005 05:03 AM #1
      Hi all,
      I'm in the process of swapping a 2001 TDI into my MKII Golf. I've got the pedal cluster from an early 90's Passat, but need to hookup the drive by wire. I've read a few threads (1-17 pager, I think you all know who's that would be) and I realize I'll probably have to cut off the accelerator part of the Passat cluster to fit in the drive by wire.
      I'd prefer not to have to weld anything (although I'm not opposed to it if it works).
      What have you all seen done for this? Since the Passat pedal cluster came with a hydraulic clutch, I only have to worry about the accelerator.
      Here's a pic of the new cluster (left)

      and the drive by wire pedal

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    3. Member RabbitGTDguy's Avatar
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      12-15-2005 01:04 PM #2
      Hello,
      Great to see another TDI swap into an older car! Saw Mr. Dave had posted your thread from here on Fred's in a post I was reading there. I'm doing a m-TDI into a MK1...similar projects, different routes...but still... TDI .
      When I had considered what you are working on right now the way I was going to work with the drive by wire pedal was to do this. I had previously swapped a Corrado from auto to manual so i had experience with working with that Passat pedal cluster (as that is what I was going to use). When thinkin about the cluster again with the TDI and such, the passat pedal cluster itself is very strong and reinforced quite well. Put simply, I was going to first cut the accel pedal assembly off of the Passat pedal cluster but paying careful attention not to remove the bulk of the "U" mounting portion of it. Then...matching the DBW pedal assembly up to it I was going to trace a line on the passat cluster that would allow me to puzzle piece the accel pedal for DBW to the passat cluster. Then...bolt the passat cluster in and the DBW assembly after that. You'll have to drill holes to mount the DBW assembly but that should take too much to do.
      Really, no way to avoid cutting out that portion on the passat cluster that you "don't" need short of getting the cluster from an MK3 TDI and adapting it as well.
      Hope that helps...confirms basically what you already thought, but puzzling it in makes it very clean. You won't use the same cruise setup either since it is electronically controlled as well.
      Joe

    4. 12-15-2005 10:22 PM #3
      Yeah, removing too much material is not a good thing. I was going to measure up where I'm going to put the pedal, then cut the bracket's raised "flange" (the bevelled part of the horseshoe) and hammer them flat. This will give me more of a surface to mount the DBW to. Ideally, I'd like to have at least two of the DBW pedals bolted through the Passat cluster.
      OK, between you and Fahrvergnuugen, I've recovered from my late morning. 2 coffees, a Red Bull chaser, and some Blueberry pie, and off I go.

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    6. 12-16-2005 02:41 AM #4
      Hmm. That didn't seem so tough. I didn't need a welder (I don't think I'll need one in the long run on this part). More important: No Metal Removal required.
      Working on the drive-by wire stuff. At first, it looked a little daunting, but thankfully I have some spare parts to do my mad science on before mangling the Passat pedal cluster. I think it will be pretty easy in the end run.
      So, Drive by wire is basically a self-contained pedal that has a flat backing. Hmm. The stock pedal cluster does not have a convenient flat spot to put that up against. Neither does the Passat Pedal cluster.
      So, out comes the measuring tape.....about a million measurements later, I discovered this....
      1. The stock pedal, when fully extended, sits about 22.5-23.3 cm from the backplate. When fully depressed, it sits at about 19 cm.
      2. The Drive-by Wire pedal when in it's normal resting place (fully extended) is about 19-19.3 cm from it's own back (there are two little posts on the back that add about 2-3mm). When it's fully depressed, it sits at 14.5 cm.
      What this means is that both the pedals have approximately the same pedal travel. Also, if you look at the picture above, you'll notice that the DBW pedal has 2 little notches on the housing on either side of the pedal lever. This is the axis of the lever. And guess what... the stock pedal has the same length and axis (despite different design).
      Sooooooo, if you lign up the axis points you have the same "Y" axis for the pedal (if you stand the pedal cluster up on its bottom now, the pedals should have the same vertical orientation as the stock setup.
      But wait! Life is not all about 1 dimension. What happened to the "X" and "Z" axes?
      Remember that the pedals have about the same amount of travel, but the depth of the pedals is different because the DBW pedal is a: obviously not designed for this pedal cluster, and b: is not mounted, so of course it looks shorter.
      So, I know what the fully-extended, mounted, stock pedal depth is from the backplane (23.3 cm). So I need to make the DBW pedal the same depth when fully extended as the stock setup. Some simple math (23.3 -19) gives you the distance the DBW pedal needs to be away from the backplate (4-4.3 cm). OK, now we're getting somewhere.
      If you look at the right side of the cluster, you see that there are only a few things obstructing you from mounting the new pedal to the rail. 1. The right pivot hole for the old pedal, and 2. the upper pedal stopper. Hmm. If I could just bend those 2 things outward and flat, I'd have the start of a mounting surface.
      I scored the side of the Passat cluster with a screwdriver. Guess how wide a 2x4 is? Worked like a charm. I just lined it up against the side and scored it real easy like.
      OK, so let's practice on something first cause I don't want to ruin the pedal cluster I just paid 200 bux for..... Ahah, the defenseless "old" pedal cluster has a quite similar setup and may actually be harder to do the mod, so away we go. Now for some pics.
      Using vice-grips to bend the metal. A torch would have probably helped on this setup, but the Passat one may be easier, as seen below

      The Passat Pedal cluster, scored with a screwdriver. Notice there is more metal to work with, so the bending should be easier and cleaner.


      The brake pedal in the stock setup is 6 cm away from the left side of the accelerator pedal. Now, X, Y, and Z orientation is taken care of.

      The work isn't over yet. I have to fabricate a metal plate that can be bolted to the newly created flanges on the right side of the pedal cluster. I also want to have the plate cross and hookup to the brake pedal bracket, bolting into the remaining pivot hole for the old pedal, and also through the holes that are in the bracket to accomodate a cable clutch spring (which isn't needed. the hydraulic cluch pedal has its spring in a different place).
      So now I have 4 mounting places to bend into the plate. I may just get a flat piece of metal with some 90 degree little elbows and bolt or weld them onto the plate.
      The plate also has to accomodate the 2 pins on the back of the DBW pedal, as well as provide for 3 mounting holes for the pedal itself. I also want to drill a hole to allow me to undo the pedal cluster/master cylinder bolt the the plate would normally obscure.

      Modified by dubCanuck1 at 12:42 AM 12-16-2005


      Modified by dubCanuck1 at 12:44 AM 12-16-2005

    7. 12-16-2005 02:55 AM #5
      Oh, and on the cruise bit, I guess if I get the signal arm from a car with cruise (mine didn't have it), I should be able to wire up the cruise similar to what MrDave did.

    8. Member Fahrvergnuugen's Avatar
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      12-16-2005 06:45 AM #6
      See? DBW is a piece of cake! [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
      Just make sure you put the pedal stop in so you don't break it in the cold...


      Modified by Fahrvergnuugen at 3:46 AM 12-16-2005

    9. 12-16-2005 01:32 PM #7
      Yeah. There also may be a clearance issue with one of the passat flanges, but I want to bolt it in before I declare it as a problem. I think it may act as a stopper for the rear plunger on the pedal.

    10. 12-17-2005 03:05 AM #8
      Little update, with lots of pictures. I started in on the Passat pedal cluster. Here's how I did it.
      A little prep with the Sawz'all. God bless whoever created that. I used some wide nosed pliers to bend the edges flat.

      Used the corner of those same electricians pliers to go along the line I'd marked yesterday. Slow work, but rewarding as the tabs stay straight, a learning I got from the old pedal cluster.

      Once I had the ears down flat, I put them both in a vise and reefed on it hard so that they would flatten out nicely and line up.

      A test fitment in the tub to make sure it all still fits nicely. There's actually quite a bit of room in there.


      This will make up part of the bracket for the DBW pedal. $4.50 at Rona.

      This will be the other piece. $5.75 at Rona.

      I picked up a whole bunch of metal at Rona for about $35. Now I can make most of the stuff I need. The two last brackets are 3 or 4 mm thick.
      Just in case I want to stop a bullet with my accelerator pedal

    11. Member G60ING's Avatar
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      12-17-2005 09:17 AM #9
      keep the pics and info coming ...I'm almost there

    12. Member RabbitGTDguy's Avatar
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      12-17-2005 10:50 AM #10
      Yes...very nice detail on the pics, etc. You might def. want to save this for future 'texers that are doing DBW conversions. I don't think this particular portion has been detailed before.
      What gauge is the metal you are going to use? Looks like it should be enough for reinforcement.
      Now...if it wasn't so hard for me to have found an ECU and wiring harness, I would've gone this route too Mechanical 12mm with the cummins pump should be fun though!

    13. 12-17-2005 12:08 PM #11
      For sure. I have a website (URL in the sig), but updating it takes longer than it takes to update a couple of forums.
      My attention to the pictures is primarily as a documentation mechanism so that I can review it when I put it all back together.
      On the gauge of the metal, it's about 4 mm thick. It's actually an anchor for a 6X6 fencepost. The other piece is a metal mount for decking. I'll try to pickup a gauge or measurement. It's about 3x thicker than the metal used for the cluster.


      Modified by dubCanuck1 at 10:13 AM 12-17-2005

    14. Member RabbitGTDguy's Avatar
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      12-18-2005 06:28 PM #12
      Should be galvanized too then Looks like it'll work well for you...
      Joe

    15. 12-19-2005 02:34 PM #13
      Yeah. The only problem is cutting the stuff. If you look at the side view of my new cluster, you'll notice there's a bubble on the left side. It required modification of the plate I was fabricating. So I had to cut out some of the centre piece. The Sawz'all did a great job in straight lines, but when I had to start a new direction, the drill bits got chewed and snapped awfully fast. I don't have a pic just yet (I'll have one tonight), but it looks pretty ghetto. I'm not worried about it because I'm doing it for me.
      Just a hint for anyone who tries this with such a gauge metal....Use a small bit to make your pilot holes in series, then graduate to larger bits as you need them. My knuckles are still healing from the drill bit sliding into an adjacent hole.
      Total so far=$20 CAD metal plus blood sweat, 4 drill bits, plenty of profanity and 3 hours time= well worth it to me.

    16. Member G60ING's Avatar
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      12-19-2005 03:10 PM #14
      Does anybody have a pic of the MK3/B4 TDI pedal cluster? Can a MK4 go pedal bolt up to it?

    17. Member RabbitGTDguy's Avatar
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      12-19-2005 05:57 PM #15
      I think the B4 pedal cluster for TDI is intergrated...

    18. Member G60ING's Avatar
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      12-19-2005 06:04 PM #16
      The Mk4 cluster has a nice platform bracket that the pedal bolts to. (I'll get some pics of of the MK4 pedal cluster) I was wondering what the B4/Mk3 TDI pedal cluster looks like since it is what I need to replicate.

    19. 12-19-2005 06:26 PM #17

      And what I'm supprised you haven't mentioned yet, Keith, is that you're also switching to a hydraulic clutch, hence the whole pedal cluster swap.
      My DBW pedal install took less than an hour, and 1/2 of that was waiting for the paint to dry.
      Part 7: Drive By Wire
      -Dave

    20. Member RabbitGTDguy's Avatar
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      12-19-2005 06:34 PM #18
      Here....how lucky is that...there is one up on ebay...if this is legit...
      http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...ZWD1V

      I can see the potentiometer I believe there... it is integral on this setup...
      Question is... would the pedal work with your later model injection pump as there was a pin out difference between the early and late TDI pumps. I'm sure its subtle though, the DBW setup is only a simple electronic setup
      Joe

    21. 12-19-2005 08:28 PM #19
      Quote, originally posted by MrDave »
      And what I'm supprised you haven't mentioned yet, Keith, is that you're also switching to a hydraulic clutch, hence the whole pedal cluster swap.
      My DBW pedal install took less than an hour, and 1/2 of that was waiting for the paint to dry.
      Part 7: Drive By Wire
      -Dave

      Yeah, but I don't want the "fat foot" adjustment you have.

    22. Member G60ING's Avatar
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      12-19-2005 09:28 PM #20
      good find. it looks like I could not just bolt on my pedal and go. I think I'll just make a few brackets that will work. and save the $120 for parts like a turbo inlet pipe and other odds and ends.

    23. Member RabbitGTDguy's Avatar
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      12-19-2005 09:29 PM #21
      i hear that... that price was high to me too... and for what you can do to modify and make existing parts work...its not worth it for that at that price IMO... 80 bucks...maybe
      Joe

    24. Member G60ING's Avatar
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      12-19-2005 09:34 PM #22
      but he did have a good pic of the turbo inlet pipe that I need:


    25. Member G60ING's Avatar
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      12-19-2005 09:56 PM #23
      Well the wife had the camera out in the car so here is a phone pic:


      The mk4 pedal cluster is very different from the Corrado, Mk2, and Mk3. the cluster is module and the clutch is a separate entity. the area where the cluster bolts is molded completly different then the earlier style cars. I'll get some pics this weekend to display this a little better. I think that a custom bracket is the only cost effective way to go.
      Last edited by G60ING; 08-24-2012 at 11:18 AM.

    26. 12-19-2005 10:58 PM #24
      Yeah. VR6GTI'00' used the MKIV pedals and carved out the bracket so it could fit into the stock pedal cluster, then redrilled the MC holes because he was using the donor's one. Have a look if that's the way you want to go.
      He also proved that the front mount from a MKII can be used on the MKIV engine/tranny. It's a good article to read for info on the MKIV swaps. If you look in there, you'll also find the console piece that allows the MKIV tranny sit right on the stock MKII tranny mount. It's from an 02A tranny (Yes MrDave, mad props for helping out with the info). [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
      https://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=808137

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      12-19-2005 11:17 PM #25
      I'm needing to do the same operation. I have the same parts. Any chance you could turn out an extra bracket?

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