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    Thread: H&R Rear Sway Bar clamp fix

    1. Member eleazar1's Avatar
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      01-12-2006 06:05 PM #1
      I finally got fed up with my clamps breaking on my 28mm rsb that I decided to try a more permanent fix. Those who've had their clamps break more than once can sympathize with me. You installed them correctly, they still broke after a few months, no help from H&R.......
      Well, I called Neuspeed, and they will sell you their clamps, bushings, and bolts for their 28mm rsb http://www.neuspeed.com/produc...d=240 It fits the H&R bar perfectly. And, it's a superior design by far: the clamp is heavy duty steel, fitted to the axel; the bushings are stiff polyurethane.
      Now, it costs about $60 for all the hardware. But, IMO, it's worth it to have a bar that does not hang down. If it is not worth it to you, then I would recomend selling your H&R bar. Because, the crappy clamps are just going to keep breaking on you.
      I did this to my car last weekend, and now I'm quite confident that I won't ever have to do anything else to my bar besides regreasing it every year. [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
      So, call Neuspeed, ask them for some: clamps, bushings, and bolts for their 28mm RSB.
      mariomega tried this mod using the existing H&R bushings, and he says they work just fine. So, you can do it either way with safety. The NS ones are hard poly, where the H&R ones are soft rubber and teflon. The H&R ones could be easier to install and would not require lubrication. But, IMO, they are prone to failure more readily.



      Modified by eleazar1 at 5:32 PM 1-13-2006

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      Modified by eleazar1 at 1:25 PM 6-26-2006

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    3. 01-12-2006 07:05 PM #2
      Good to know.

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      01-12-2006 07:07 PM #3
      Yeah, I have an H&R sway and it's all good except for the cheesey band clamps.
      I too was thinking about using the Neuspeed clamps, or making my own. Do the Neuspeed clamps push the bar back enough so that the bar doesn't contact the springs? I noticed that if you don't position the H&R bar back on the beam(ends pulling bar back) that it will constantly rub the springs, especially under compression.
      Any pic of your set up?

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    6. Member f1forkvr6's Avatar
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      01-12-2006 11:16 PM #4
      So besides spending an extra $60 for better hardware, and performing the annual regreasing of the sway bar, it's perfect.
      Glad I don't have to deal with any of that.
      No more VW
      ~later~

    7. 01-13-2006 02:39 PM #5
      Quote, originally posted by Big Fundamental »
      Yeah, I have an H&R sway and it's all good except for the cheesey band clamps.
      I too was thinking about using the Neuspeed clamps, or making my own. Do the Neuspeed clamps push the bar back enough so that the bar doesn't contact the springs? I noticed that if you don't position the H&R bar back on the beam(ends pulling bar back) that it will constantly rub the springs, especially under compression.
      Any pic of your set up?

      i would like an answer to that as well..if the NS clamps hold it back in the right place...
      Dan
      Am I OG status yet? 44 years old and still driving a slammed and Boosted 'Dub...cool or sad?

    8. Member eleazar1's Avatar
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      01-13-2006 05:36 PM #6
      I updated the original post with pix. Sorry, the Silverwolf is kinda dirty, but you can still see the clamps fine. The NS clamps hold it just right.
      I've heard some people have that problem with the rubbing. I never did with the original clamps or the new ones. I have H&R Sport springs (1.5"), not sure if that makes a difference.

    9. 01-13-2006 07:51 PM #7
      Quote, originally posted by eleazar1 »
      I updated the original post with pix. Sorry, the Silverwolf is kinda dirty, but you can still see the clamps fine. The NS clamps hold it just right.
      I've heard some people have that problem with the rubbing. I never did with the original clamps or the new ones. I have H&R Sport springs (1.5"), not sure if that makes a difference.

      thanks for the pic update....
      Am I OG status yet? 44 years old and still driving a slammed and Boosted 'Dub...cool or sad?

    10. 01-29-2006 12:02 AM #8
      Thanks much for the info and pics. I just posted about my H&R clamp problems earlier today. Neuspeed clamps look like the way to go if you've got an H&R bar. Worth the $60 to be done with it and just get back to driving. Cheers, Pete
      https://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2416330

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      01-29-2006 08:46 AM #9
      Yes, glad to see I'm not the only one who's noodled with this idea.
      Any clue, eleazar, if H&R's bushings fit in Neuspeed's clamps at all? I like the idea of their not-pure-urethane formula (no lubing needed). Both bushings are triangular, but I'm not sure they're the same size as one another. Tough to call from looking at photos....


      Modified by YikeGrymon at 6:33 AM 1-29-2006

    12. Member eleazar1's Avatar
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      01-30-2006 10:35 PM #10
      Quote, originally posted by YikeGrymon »
      Any clue, eleazar, if H&R's bushings fit in Neuspeed's clamps at all? I like the idea of their not-pure-urethane formula (no lubing needed). Both bushings are triangular, but I'm not sure they're the same size as one another. Tough to call from looking at photos....

      I really would not recomend it. I don't have the H&R bushings anymore, but I am almost positive they were smaller than the NS ones. The NS ones are fairly rigid Polyurethane and they brace against the axel to hold the clamp in place. If you use the smaller, flexible H&R bushings, the clamps could easily move on you = Bad
      That is my .02
      Good luck.

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      01-31-2006 12:11 PM #11
      WELL THAT FIGURES. Clamps that move are just as bad as clamps that snap, I guess. Less dramatic, less unsafe; no less a PITA though. But I suppose I'll drop that $60 and proceed.
      If H&R's bushings don't really fit in Neuspeed's clamps I'll go with NS's. Yearly lubing probably won't kill anyone. If H&R's do fit... the groovy red NS units will make a swell pair of earrings for someone.

    14. Member eleazar1's Avatar
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      01-31-2006 10:32 PM #12
      Quote, originally posted by YikeGrymon »
      If H&R's do fit... the groovy red NS units will make a swell pair of earrings for someone.

      The '80s are coming back!!

    15. Member billetfront's Avatar
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      02-01-2006 02:46 PM #13
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      06 mkiv gti 1.8t

    16. Member bluerabbit0886's Avatar
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      02-01-2006 11:46 PM #14
      welp, looks like ill be getting these sometime soon...
      Quote Originally Posted by butterface View Post
      It isn't whether a government can represent its people that is the best measure of its effectiveness. Rather, it's whether a government is designed to leave its people alone.

    17. 02-02-2006 07:43 PM #15
      I just called H&R @ 888-827-8881 and talked to one of the techs. He said they just had a meeting and if the clamps were installed according to the instructions, they dont break. I told him that I installed it exactly like the picture and the instructions but it still broke. He is sending me 2 new clamps with instructions. I will see if this works. I have had 2 clamps break on me already. The 2nd one I just found out about today. If this doesnt work, i will probably use the neuspeed clamps.

    18. Member eleazar1's Avatar
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      02-02-2006 08:20 PM #16
      Hate to say it, but "Join the club"


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      02-03-2006 12:21 PM #17
      Quote, originally posted by bass951 »
      I just called H&R @ 888-827-8881 and talked to one of the techs. He said they just had a meeting and if the clamps were installed according to the instructions, they dont break. I told him that I installed it exactly like the picture and the instructions but it still broke. He is sending me 2 new clamps with instructions. I will see if this works. I have had 2 clamps break on me already. The 2nd one I just found out about today. If this doesnt work, i will probably use the neuspeed clamps.

      WTF. I spoke with one of H&R's tech people in the fall. I'd phoned to ask if there was a reason their installation instructions called for having those clamps mounted so that the bolts are parallel to the ground. The answer was "Well, it's mostly so that when tightened, the bolts pull the clamps closed rather than tug apart the spot welds on them. It's easiest to arrive at that with the bolts on the bottom." Hm. Next time I rolled under my car (and I was under there a lot for a while, trying to get their 28-mm RSB on there in what seemed the "correct" way) I was able to see what the guy meant. The welds are where the metal bends around those nut-insert thingies and then folds over on itself again. I tried some different clamp orientations (and thus locations of the bolts) and it was easy to see that there was quite a variation in more-yanking-on-those-welds and not-yanking-on-them.
      This whole exercise was to try and get the bolts tucked up under the car more. Like to lose as little ground clearance as possible. With them underneath the axle, parallel to the ground as called for in H&R's install pix, they're lower than the rest of the bar/axle by maybe 3/4". Hey, everything counts... especially if the next step calls for lowering the car a tad.
      Check these out for more insight:
      https://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2293413
      https://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2277502
      Anyway, I told the tech dude what I was up to, and that, with the clamps on there so that the bolts are on the back side of the axle (rather than underneath it) with the heads pointed down, I could see that the clamps were being pulled closed the same way they were with the bolts parallel to the ground. He said that was the real critical factor and that mounting the clamps that way "shouldn't be a problem."
      SO! Maybe this is or has been a factor in those busted clamps? Like not having them oriented just the right way and then introducing the weld-tugging factor. Dunno. Mine have yet to break, but when it warms up outside I'm still going for the Neuspeed clamp swap. Why chance it... don't need to be a genius to see that it's a much better design. If H&R has ANY sense they will re-engineer their damn clamps. Because otherwise their bars are excellent, if only because of how they don't hang down all over creation the way most others do. Not sure I get what most people are so fired up about with Neuspeed bars; they appear to treat you to major loss of ground clearance all over the place. Oh well.

    20. 02-03-2006 01:59 PM #18
      Good info, thanks. Hey I notice from one of your ealrier posts that your instructions said leave 1/2 to 3/4" of exposed thread. Mine say 3/4" to 1". Big difference. I'm at 3/4" but isn't very tight at all. The bar moves around alot on the twist beam. I have bolts on bottom per instrucs. I agree that would rather have them up and out of the way.
      Anyway, I need to call Neuspeed and get their clamps and be done. Even tho I don't think much of polyurethane bushings. Should be ok for antiroll bar.
      Pete

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      02-04-2006 09:15 AM #19
      Hey yer welcome. Yes, that is a significant difference. Wonder what they were thinking, with such varied measurements.
      I guess by the same earlier post you've gathered my whole experience with this. I'm pretty sure I ended up tightening those bolts beyond what H&R's directions called for, once the bar started moving around and "slid" down the axle beam (when I had my spring-contact issue). I'm also pretty sure I remember being made nervous by tightening them that much. As in thinking "Crap, are these things going to break?"
      Don't have pix of where my bolts are now... but you can experiment the way I did and move them around and you'll see what I mean. Actually, I also recall that to get them on the back of the axle with the heads pointed down (if they're on top you can't tighten them!) you'll need to remove the clamps completely and reverse the way they loop on. Put them on (bolts on bottom but boltheads facing forward first) then spin the clamps UP some. Do one at a time to keep everything bar/axle/springs lined up the right way. You'll see. Also make note of the spot-weld-tugging vs. spot-weld-not-tugging orientation of everything. Once the clamps are rotated so the bolts are on the back of the axle the clamp orientation looks good again. PITA, but (like I always say, speaking of earlier posts) this is what we get in exchange for insisting on messing with sheeyit.
      This might be, at best, a quick and intermediate fix, of course. As in NS clamps seem like the endpoint to strive for, anyway....

    22. Member eleazar1's Avatar
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      02-04-2006 10:16 AM #20
      I was actually able to get my clamps on "correctly" with the second set. The bolts were parallel to the ground, and there was no direct tuggin on the spot welds. I then tightened the clamps down so that they just barely got snug. I drove carefully for a week, then retightened them so they were just snug again. I had to repeat this for several weeks as the clamps continued to stretch and bend to fit the axel better.
      Then the things finally stopped stretching and I tightened them down a little more so they would not move. I did not pay attention to how long the bolt threads stuck out the other side of the clamp, because the tightness is what matters most.
      Only after all this did I drive the car hard. They stupid things still snapped after 3 months. It seems that the material they are made of is just too flexible, and the spot welds are the weakest point. [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif[/IMG]
      Please feel free to share your frustration stories. We could make this a "Surviving the crappy H&R clamps" support group

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      02-05-2006 04:34 PM #21
      Har har.
      I'm thinking of printing all these relevant threads and faxing them to H&R. Surely they know they have a fine bar; surely they know their clamps BLOW. Maybe they don't care? Perhaps if they knew there were some of us out here who DO care and DO know the difference they'd make some changes. (Let's observe what's happening to General Motors... how long did they have that same kind of 'tude?)
      Tightening to "just snug" then doing it again, and then again later, sounds like a pretty good approach.

    24. Member f1forkvr6's Avatar
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      02-05-2006 05:29 PM #22
      Perhaps it's time to try a different bar. Personally I'd be Pi$$ed if I spent a couple hundred, and had to worry about mechanical failures on something as simple as a sway bar. There are better choices.
      No more VW
      ~later~

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      02-05-2006 09:50 PM #23
      Quote, originally posted by f1forkvr6 »
      Perhaps it's time to try a different bar. Personally I'd be Pi$$ed if I spent a couple hundred, and had to worry about mechanical failures on something as simple as a sway bar. There are better choices.

      Roger that. I'm thinking Shine (have been for a while); wanted to see how a "conventional" one would do first, as the stiffest springs I'd ever add to this thing of mine would be SofSports (intending to make that change, with new dampers, in the spring). There seems to be greatly mixed opinion on using Shine's RSB with not-Shine springs, though. H&R's bar seemed to be the "best" of the conventional variety to me, for various reasons... all referred to somewhere or other in the collection of my loquacious and/or annoyed postings.
      This is all so GD stupid. Maybe I should buy a moped.

    26. Member f1forkvr6's Avatar
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      02-06-2006 09:28 AM #24
      I'm biased towards Shine's bar (simply a happy customer for quite a while now), however any bar that mounts in a similar fashion will at the very least eliminate bushings and clamps from the equation.
      No more VW
      ~later~

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      02-06-2006 02:45 PM #25
      Quote, originally posted by f1forkvr6 »
      I'm biased towards Shine's bar (simply a happy customer for quite a while now), however any bar that mounts in a similar fashion will at the very least eliminate bushings and clamps from the equation.

      Roger that again. I like the idea, frankly (nix/void of bushings and clamps altogether). At this point I'm thinking that -- given the way the world works and the great sense of humor it has -- if we sort out this issue decently... then we'll have trouble with end links snapping in two or the bushings inside them wearing out in some ridiculously short amount of time!
      Two concerns with Shine RSB + Neuspeed SofSports:
      1) Putting more stress on the bar than it was designed to accommodate (what with springs less firm than Shine's... therefore no extra spring to soak up some of that stress) and
      2) creating a car that breaks loose in the rear way too easily.
      Then again, I've read some posts here concerning just this setup. Seems to be fine for some people (Shine RSB and OEM springs claimed to be fine as well, by some). I've gathered that nearly all Shine RSB failures were the older bars with the short "cross-tubes" (where the bolts go) rather than the solid blocks they have on there now. Also I know that a car that breaks its rear loose easily is as good as it is bad, for different reasons. Still, I have visions of someone not accustomed to my Mk IV sailing sideways into a tree the first time they drive it....
      We'll see.


      Modified by YikeGrymon at 11:48 AM 2-6-2006

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