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    Thread: "Lifetime" Transmission and Differential Oil.......NOT

    1. Member wrh3's Avatar
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      04-09-2007 06:46 PM #1
      I recently changed my transmission and rear differential oil at 23711 miles over to Amsoil GL4 ( http://www.amsoil.com/products...00967 ) , at the HPDE I was at I could hear transmission noise after a run and decided it might be beneficial to change even though it was a "lifetime" item.
      EDIT: If doing this again, I would use the same GL4 (Manual Transmission & Transaxle Gear Lube 75W-90, Product Code: MTGQT-EA) I used for the trans and get GL5 (Severe Gear 75W-90, Product Code: SVGQT-EA) for the rear differential. Amsoil is great stuff but their product guide is sometimes lacking, and GL5 contains additional additives that provide better lubrication for the rear diff.

      I will let you draw you own conclusions from the below oil analysis results:



      [EDIT] Changing Your Transmission and/or Rear Differential Fluid 101
      Since there were some requests in this thread I have copied the info from my website to the below DIY.
      Basically you use a tool like the one I sourced from MetalNerd to remove the fill and drain bolts:

      One end works for the transmission and one end works for the differential. I always like to go for about a 30 minute drive to warm the fluid up and get all of the sludge out <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="https://forums.vwvortex.com/zerofile/5998/halloween_pumpkin3.gif" BORDER="0">
      Next, I jack the car at the front jack point high enough to get a jack under the rear jack point on the pinch rail and under the frame at the front (these points are not VW approved, YMMV). No need to remove wheels, I did this for another parallel project.


      For the rear differential, remove the fill bolt first and then the drain bolt and drain the old fluid into a suitable container for recycling:

      For the transmission, remove the fill bolt first and then the drain bolt and drain the old fluid into a suitable container for recycling:

      When all fluid is drained, replace the drain plugs and tighten to spec. You will need a hand pump like the Sta Lube one to fill easily. It takes 1.05 qts for the diff and 2.7 qts for the trans and will start to pour out of the fill hole when capacity is reached, this is your queue to remove the fill tube and replace the fill plug.




      NOTE: The VW Oil Check process should be followed, specifically note the requirement to run the engine with the transmission in gear for two minutes before RECHECKING the fluid level for the transmission/front differential. The VW torque spec for both drain and fill bolts for the transmission/front differential is 30 Nm or ~22 lb/ft and for the rear differential is 25 Nm or ~18.5 lb/ft. :






      Modified by wrh3 at 1:07 PM 7-5-2009

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    3. Member Jamaican_tuner's Avatar
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      04-09-2007 06:50 PM #2
      Writeup on the fluid change ? What oil did you go with this time?

    4. Senior Member PowerDubs's Avatar
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      04-09-2007 06:50 PM #3
      Good job!!
      I plan on changing my oil on my new rear end this month.. less than a month old!! I want to get out whatever metal is in there after 'break-in'...

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    6. Member P.Bolsters's Avatar
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      04-09-2007 06:53 PM #4
      diff fluid? how do you change that????

    7. Member climbingcue's Avatar
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      04-09-2007 06:54 PM #5
      Thanks for posting, after reading that I am happy that I changed my rear diff oil over the weekend...
      United Motorsport [email protected] mph on 93 octane
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      04-09-2007 06:56 PM #6
      Fantastic thanks Bill [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
      I guess I now have to source down fluid for trans and rear diff
      I guess my 30K will be a big one. I was planning on pushing the 40K into my 30K then add this.....yhooo
      05 HTA35r EVO VIII ...... 03 SVT Lightning ...... 05 4.8is X5....... 12 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited

    9. Member wrh3's Avatar
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      04-09-2007 07:09 PM #7
      Quote, originally posted by Jamaican_tuner &raquo;
      Writeup on the fluid change ? What oil did you go with this time?

      I did take pics and do somewhat of a writeup on my R32 page:
      http://www.billswebspace.com/vwr32.htm
      I used Amsoil Synthetic 75w90 Gear Lube, shifts felt much better and more consistent during the runs at the TOD GTG over the weekend. I plan to do the HPDE at Road Atlanta in two weeks so I'll have a better opportunity to compare to what I was seeing/feeling at Barber.

    10. 04-09-2007 07:16 PM #8
      I changed my trans lube at 25K and it looked very dirty. I tried several synthetics, but only the factory $40/liter worked without cold morning shifting problems. My recommendation for those who plan on keeping their R long term is to change the trans fluid every 2yrs of street use and every year if you track often.

    11. Global Moderator iThread's Avatar
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      04-09-2007 07:16 PM #9
      Is he recommending changing at the 30k mark or going 30k before the next change? I think it's the former. If that's true then us occasional track weenies are going to be changing the fluid every 10k?

    12. Member wrh3's Avatar
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      04-09-2007 07:20 PM #10
      Quote, originally posted by iThread &raquo;
      Is he recommending changing at the 30k mark or going 30k before the next change? I think it's the former. If that's true then us occasional track weenies are going to be changing the fluid every 10k?

      If it is consistent with what I have seen for engine oil analysis, I believe they are saying that the new fluid should be changed in 30k miles (but I will do it every 20k unless the next oil analysis suggests an earlier interval).


      Modified by wrh3 at 6:28 PM 4-9-2007

    13. Member wrh3's Avatar
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      04-09-2007 07:23 PM #11
      Quote, originally posted by drew2fast &raquo;
      I changed my trans lube at 25K and it looked very dirty. I tried several synthetics, but only the factory $40/liter worked without cold morning shifting problems. My recommendation for those who plan on keeping their R long term is to change the trans fluid every 2yrs of street use and every year if you track often.

      The only oil I have experience with other than the OEM VW is the Amsoil I changed to and it seemed fine in the cold (it was snowing at the TOD GTG at my hotel and was in the mid 20s for the low).

    14. 04-09-2007 07:24 PM #12
      A 30k interval is too long, especially if you track your R often. 7-10k might be excessive, 15k is probably a good interval. Transmissions don't have oil filters. The trans oil is very easy to change, less difficult then the engine oil service.
      Quote, originally posted by iThread &raquo;
      Is he recommending changing at the 30k mark or going 30k before the next change? I think it's the former. If that's true then us occasional track weenies are going to be changing the fluid every 10k?



      Modified by drew2fast at 3:38 PM 4-9-2007

    15. 04-09-2007 08:01 PM #13
      Quote, originally posted by iThread &raquo;
      Is he recommending changing at the 30k mark or going 30k before the next change? I think it's the former. If that's true then us occasional track weenies are going to be changing the fluid every 10k?

      Quote, originally posted by wrh3 &raquo;
      If it is consistent with what I have seen for engine oil analysis, I believe they are saying that the new fluid should be changed in 30k miles (but I will do it every 20k unless the next oil analysis suggests an earlier interval).

      Is BSL just saing to change it at 10k so they can get a better idea of how soon the oil is breaking down? If so, they may extend the change intervals after they have a fresher test batch... just my thought.
      Thanks for also pointing out that I'm WAY over due to change mine out..

    16. Member Daemon42's Avatar
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      04-09-2007 08:05 PM #14
      Quote, originally posted by drew2fast &raquo;
      A 30k interval is too long, especially if you track your R often. 7-10k might be excessive, 15k is probably a good interval. Transmissions don't have oil filters. The trans oil is very easy to change, less difficult then the engine oil service.

      Automotive transmissions also don't accumulate combustion byproducts and
      dust introduced through blow-by, so not having a filter is really not relevant to
      tranny and diff oil. They also aren't picking up particulates from a wet clutch,
      such as you'd find in a motorcycle gearbox.
      In my opinion, 7-10k change interval for tranny and diff oil would be an
      utter waste of money (not that that's ever stopped R32 owners before).
      Blackstone is recommending 30k change interval, and saying really the only
      issue with the samples was initial break-in wear metals, which would be
      largely eliminated in the next sample.
      ian

    17. 04-09-2007 08:23 PM #15
      good info bill - tks for the detailed write up
      [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

    18. 04-09-2007 10:22 PM #16
      Transmissions generate much more dirt then you would believe. Most of the dirt is from the wearing of the components, synchros, etc. 7-10K is a waist, 15K for a track vehicle and 20K for a street car is not to excessive IMO. I guess it depends on how long you want to keep your R.
      Quote, originally posted by Daemon42 &raquo;
      Automotive transmissions also don't accumulate combustion byproducts and
      dust introduced through blow-by, so not having a filter is really not relevant to
      tranny and diff oil. They also aren't picking up particulates from a wet clutch,
      such as you'd find in a motorcycle gearbox.
      In my opinion, 7-10k change interval for tranny and diff oil would be an
      utter waste of money (not that that's ever stopped R32 owners before).
      Blackstone is recommending 30k change interval, and saying really the only
      issue with the samples was initial break-in wear metals, which would be
      largely eliminated in the next sample.
      ian

    19. 04-09-2007 10:33 PM #17
      Scheduled appointment to have rear diff fluid changed this Wed @ 22,850 miles. I can hear whine off throttle in first and second gears. The pics Thread posted showing the metal filings in his fluid made decide not to wait another 75 thousand miles.
      Great info Bill!

    20. 04-09-2007 11:04 PM #18
      Bill,
      thanks for lending your insight.
      When you had your .:R for sale last year, I wasnt ready to pay for all your mods installed (couldn't afford it), but knowing how you take care of your cars almost made me pull the trigger anyway. ....

    21. Member wrh3's Avatar
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      04-09-2007 11:11 PM #19
      Quote, originally posted by OurDirtyToo &raquo;
      When you had your .:R for sale last year, I wasnt ready to pay for all your mods installed (couldn't afford it), but knowing how you take care of your cars almost made me pull the trigger anyway. ....

      I don't know if I could have let it go, I guess that's why I decided to keep it
      I have always thought of "lifetime" fluids as "lifetime of the warranty"
      I was kind of surprised by the results, I didn't expect it to be great but a 75w90 that was the equivalent of SAE 20W

    22. 04-09-2007 11:25 PM #20
      20w is low. Mobil 1 Synthetic Gear Lube 75W-90 has a viscosity of [email protected] of 106 which is about 30-35W. However the thicker lubes would not work below 60F in my trans. I believe the O2J is designed to work with a slightly lighter product.

    23. 04-10-2007 10:52 PM #21
      Quote, originally posted by drew2fast &raquo;
      20w is low. Mobil 1 Synthetic Gear Lube 75W-90 has a viscosity of [email protected] of 106 which is about 30-35W. However the thicker lubes would not work below 60F in my trans. I believe the O2J is designed to work with a slightly lighter product.

      In this similar topic: https://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3168460
      75w90 was decided upon for the front transaxle and rear diff. That makes sense for the rear diff, but I wasn't so sure about the transaxle. I did some searching and found this at the bottom of the page. It might explain your ATF like Blackstone report since G52 does not specify the viscosity. So now I'm still not sure what to use up front.
      http://forums.tdiclub.com/show...age=6




      Modified by stuckey at 6:56 PM 4-10-2007

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      04-10-2007 11:02 PM #22
      thanks

    25. 04-11-2007 12:46 AM #23
      Thanks, good find. I tried Redline MTL which is about half the viscosity of most 75w-80 gear lubes and it was still to thick. The syncho's could not evacuate it when it was at room temp. It would require a substantial amount of force to change gears.

      If the transmission uses yellow metal (bronze, brass) syncro's then the lube should not contain sulfur, especially active sulfur as an EP additive. The sulfur will destroy the synchro's, it will reduce their service life by less then half. Sulfur is one of the best EP additives and is ideal for differentials. I don't think one fluid will work for both.
      Quote, originally posted by stuckey &raquo;
      In this similar topic: https://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3168460
      75w90 was decided upon for the front transaxle and rear diff. That makes sense for the rear diff, but I wasn't so sure about the transaxle. I did some searching and found this at the bottom of the page. It might explain your ATF like Blackstone report since G52 does not specify the viscosity. So now I'm still not sure what to use up front.
      http://forums.tdiclub.com/show...age=6
      Modified by stuckey at 6:56 PM 4-10-2007

    26. 04-11-2007 09:23 AM #24
      I notice ECS have two different fluids listed -
      G052171A2 for the transmission and
      G052145S2 for the rear axle.
      Both are 75w-90.
      Anyone know what the difference is?

    27. Member wrh3's Avatar
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      04-11-2007 10:07 AM #25
      PICS (Reports) in first post updated for TAN analysis.

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