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    Thread: Hello I'm a vortek newbie! read me please!

    1. 05-26-2007 03:35 PM #1
      Hi fellow Vw dubbers! My name is Trip I want to thank all of you for your continous participation with the Cabby info!
      Here is my situation
      I went on the bub luv hunt for salvage head for '92 auto and tripped on an '88-COMPLETE! I couldn't see it get crushed so I bought it for an XXXXXtremely low price charged the battery and she started. Unfortunately the yard was raided by the catylitic converter bandits and now I have to buy a replacement Catylitic converter for it.
      I found a '90 jette head and have bolted and torqued that one on the '92 but I inadvertantly spun the crank with out the belts on and even tho I marked the belt it "dropped off the crank. Now I dont know how to get the 19mm crank bolt off! cannot tstop the crank from spinning! Any suggestions as you know i have to SEE the Crank timming marks! to set the timming.......Thanks
      Oh yeah whats up with the power steering pump adjuster nut being bent? What a pain! I got the bolt and nut off and now I realize that i have to remove the whole pump to get the belt back on!
      These cars make me feel like I am Bi-Polar! up down up down up down!

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    3. 05-26-2007 03:37 PM #2
      I meant DUB LUV not BUB luv!...

    4. Member tolusina's Avatar
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      05-26-2007 06:41 PM #3
      If you'll use the crank timing marks in the bell housing, you won't need to remove the crank pulley.
      Ignore the intermediate shaft marks, just line up the center of the distributor rotor tip with the notch in the distributor body.
      Cam timing marks look like this.........




      Quote Originally Posted by kamzcab86
      I hate reading: "But I bought this car for $500 and don't want to put another dime into it."
      ____(hey, it's VW AND it's electrical, what's not to fail?) neoBentley+



    5. 05-27-2007 08:31 PM #4
      Tolusina;
      thank you kindly for your response- alot of views but 1 response it is appreciated!
      I have the over head cam timming marks on the timing cover. However MR>CHILTON says to make sure no pistons are at top dead center when putting head on so I went and spun the bottom crank.
      Now the head is on torqued and all the nuts and bolting is done, just some hoses and viola Im ready to turn the key (and pray,beg and hope all is well!).
      Iam wondering are you calling the intermiediate shaft the bottom crank?
      Also I guess I am just gonna try and line up the fly wheel mark and point the distributor rotor to number one and see what happens.
      So now I am In need of the bootm crank marks to line the top and bottom up together. Also it appers as I was messin with the belt and pulley that the belt seems to rub/ride on the bottm cover-this doesnt look right to me! seems like there would be some friction/resistance there?
      Well again thank you,
      very much

    6. Member tolusina's Avatar
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      05-28-2007 12:03 AM #5
      Line up the camshaft like so..........

      ______________________


      Use the zero mark on the flywheel or flex plate, this pic shows the -3° mark of early A1s and the zero mark.


      ______________________


      There are marks on the intermediate shaft that can be safely ignored, as long as the distributor is lined up correctly, timing will all come out fine.


      ______________________

      ______________________


      Tensioner adjustment like this......


      ______________________


      The belt should not rub or drag anywhere.

      Once you think you have the belt and timing correct, rotate the crankshaft two full revolutions by hand, re-check timing and tension. Repeat this step as many times as it takes to get two full turns needing no adjustment after.

      Get a Bentley manual for the car.



      Quote Originally Posted by kamzcab86
      I hate reading: "But I bought this car for $500 and don't want to put another dime into it."
      ____(hey, it's VW AND it's electrical, what's not to fail?) neoBentley+



    7. 05-28-2007 01:34 PM #6

    8. 05-28-2007 03:18 PM #7
      Tolusina,
      To the resue you come again!
      Duh is me in my haste and frustration I was setting up the t.belt on the left of the tensioner NOT the right hence the rubbing! But I did have enough sense to realize it did not look right
      As for the fly wheel marks your much appreciated pic welcomes another queery- Am I not supposed to use the 0 mark? I have an automatic('92), is the 3 degree mark the one I want?
      Also lets assume I just bought fresh oil and coolant everything is bolted down and the battery is at Autozone being charged-
      What will happen if i turn the key? and the timming is Not right? will I destroy all my labor and busted knuckles?
      As for bentley- I have exhausted all my ritches to date considering I purchased the other cabby.
      Also has anyone pulled back the front of the vert top and put in a tarp, reapplyied the top-for the time being till new top is achieved?
      Water in car smells gross and can't be healthy to breathe on a 100 degree day!
      Thanks again immensly!

    9. Member tolusina's Avatar
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      05-28-2007 03:31 PM #8
      3 degree mark the one I want?
      The pic showing a -3° mark is for an older model, your car should have a +6° mark to the left of the zero mark, use the +6° for the ignition timing with a strobe light once it's running.
      Set the belt timing using the zero mark.
      _____________
      What will happen if i turn the key? and the timming is Not right? will I destroy all my labor and busted knuckles?

      These engines are known as a non-interference design, be safe anyway, hand rotate the crank through two full revolutions and recheck timing and tension as described above. When you get through two full revolutions and timing and tension haven't changed, fire it up.


      Quote Originally Posted by kamzcab86
      I hate reading: "But I bought this car for $500 and don't want to put another dime into it."
      ____(hey, it's VW AND it's electrical, what's not to fail?) neoBentley+



    10. 05-28-2007 10:29 PM #9
      Ok i know a reasonably intelligent and patient person should be able to grasp this by now even if they do have collegial accomplishments1
      However this dud head dubber wanna be is confussed!
      I have spun 2x's and set, spun 2x's and set the timming marks as previously directed .....but it appears that there is a lil play between the cam and the tranny, tad forward 0 degree mark off tad backwards 0 degree mark off. Wondering if someone previously moved the fly wheel a little? would it matter?
      The distrbutor/intermediate shaft lines up ( pointing towardsnumber one mark on distrbutor )with overhead cam well.
      So, I am just gonna assume that I am being a perfectionist (as usual)
      and accept the lil'off on the tranny mark situation. After all I can not stretch the timming belt by just one tooth ( I wish)!
      Well after all this and making myself look like my timing in my head is retarded (pun) Tommorow is the day!
      Seeing Autozone did not have the battery I need as mine was toast and would not hold a charge (my luck!).
      I will let you all know how it turns out and if it does turn out well I'll wash her gladly and take pics to share!
      I am not looking forward to cleaning that white interior tho any suggestions if not prayers are welcome.

    11. Member tolusina's Avatar
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      05-28-2007 10:39 PM #10
      Note in the pics above, that the dot on the cam lines up with the valve cover, not the head.
      Get the cam and crank (at the flywheel/flex plate end) as close to each other as possible, if the distributor is a little off, fix that after it's running by turning the distributor housing and using a timing light at the flywheel/flex plate +6° mark.
      Oops, I see it's a '92, that's DigiFant. DigiFant timing is set according to the chart below.







      Modified by tolusina at 7:42 PM 5-28-2007
      Quote Originally Posted by kamzcab86
      I hate reading: "But I bought this car for $500 and don't want to put another dime into it."
      ____(hey, it's VW AND it's electrical, what's not to fail?) neoBentley+



    12. 05-29-2007 09:54 AM #11
      Ok thanks to your timily response i have not lost my mind yet, well i did but I think it is under the hood!
      I found that after much trial and error that the tension is extremely important. You see there was play as i reffered to before when I got the Distributor/intermediate shaft free of the belt i could spin the distributor by hand and thus advance it a little and catch tthe belt on the gear and pull it up ratcheting the dist. back to number one slot. This allowed for the crank and cam to have less play and with the s. plugs out i could rotate the alternator pulley a lil by hand and see the play was less.

      But- to no avail. I have spark and removal of the plugs shows fuel in all cylinders and the battery is Brand new. So I am left to attempt lining up everything AGAIN and utilize your last post.
      Wish me luck!
      P.S> Can the timming be this touchy? shouldnt I atleast get a stumble or some ignition?

    13. 05-29-2007 10:00 AM #12
      Oh yeah and the timming mark for the cam mark in the plastic timming cover bolted to the valve cover. Like this
      T ( Arrow) O
      And that DOT on the ridge of the cam gear is present also.
      Thanks again for your devine patience!!!!!!!!
      Much gratitude!

    14. 05-29-2007 10:07 AM #13
      K I am tired!!!!!!!
      The plastic cover has the down ward arrow and the gear has the
      T O as well as the dot (around 8 o'clock position).

      And my snotty neighbor just stopped by with his ****siata I mean miata-laffin at me for not getting cabby running yet...
      AND he has his top off on this glorious day! ( wait till he sees I have another cabby too! teeheee-He'll really shake his head!)
      have a good day and thanks
      Carpediem!!!!!

    15. Member meinteil's Avatar
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      04-20-2009 07:25 PM #14
      Well, bending your neck, closing one eye, and a twist of the wrist while not touching hot the coolant hoses is all it takes! Thanks guys! [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
      Any one know what size hole is on that guy?

    16. Member DjDazer's Avatar
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      04-09-2012 04:29 PM #15
      Maybe if i dont have a distributor and my engine is diesel!
      Im stuck on the part you said can be ignored
      For a diesel is it diffrent?

    17. Member tolusina's Avatar
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      04-10-2012 12:41 AM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by DjDazer View Post
      .........For a diesel is it diffrent?
      Way, way different. Get it wrong on a diesel and you will very likely bend valves and that will make you very unhappy, ruin your day for sure, maybe a week, month or more.
      ---
      Get a setting bar for the cam, note that there is no woodruff key between the cam and it's sprocket even though there is a keyway. DO NOT install a key there. You will need the cam sprocket loose from the cam.
      You'll need a setting pin for the pump gear, that one is keyed but there's (usually) no reason to take it off and look.
      Get the crank to TDC, put the belt on with about twice the tension a gas engine needs, a tension gauge is good.

      Best to set the injection pump lift/timing after setting the cam, a special dial indicator set is needed.
      ---
      Got Bentley? You really should.
      ---
      Just in case I didn't already post this, get this wrong and you'll stuff the engine but good.
      Quote Originally Posted by kamzcab86
      I hate reading: "But I bought this car for $500 and don't want to put another dime into it."
      ____(hey, it's VW AND it's electrical, what's not to fail?) neoBentley+



    18. Member canucker's Avatar
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      04-10-2012 01:10 AM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by DjDazer View Post
      Maybe if i dont have a distributor and my engine is diesel!
      Im stuck on the part you said can be ignored
      For a diesel is it diffrent?
      dont even try usin this to time a diesel.

      vwdiesel search on google is your new BFF
      Mk1 crowd:: Put your bumpers back on!!

    19. Member DjDazer's Avatar
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      04-10-2012 03:55 AM #18
      Thanks for the help! It wouldve been bad if i tryed to start it
      So far i got some lined up:


      Now whatever else needs to be done!
      Wish i could afford the manuel -_-

    20. Senior Member briano1234's Avatar
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      04-10-2012 09:37 AM #19
      Timing a diesel...

      IP to the mark as you have it and bolted in place.
      Cam is number 1 lobes pointing up, a flat bar will ride in the rear cam notch, and be parallel to the head casting.
      Tranny at 0.

      The Timing Belt should twist no more than 90 degrees between the IP and Cam.

      un bolt the ip, and take the bar stock out of the cam, did it move? If so do it all over.

      Now if it didn't move, then you rotate the engine at least 4 revolutions checking for binds,, do not force it.... If it is binding then back it off.... reset the timing again.

      If there are no binds in the rotation, then you should be good to go.

      IF the timing is off by as little as 1 tooth, or you neglected to buy a new timing belt... then CA-CA will occur. Usually you bend one or 2 valves, then they usually shear and spot weld to the piston top.... Then when the valve comes back up it usually breaks a 1 inch chunk out of the head.... Yep I know from first hand experience on a defective belt that had about 6 hours on it that skipped one tooth at 45 MPH....

      Don't go cheap on the belt.. I buy only VW for the diesel....Head gaskets as well as belts.

    21. Member mtemal's Avatar
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      04-10-2012 09:55 AM #20
      @DJdazer, check the cabby FAQ post 84

    22. Member tolusina's Avatar
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      04-10-2012 12:30 PM #21
      Adding a little clarification........
      Quote Originally Posted by briano1234 View Post
      .....IP to the mark as you have it and bolted in place.....
      Paint mark in the injection pump lined up with the notch in the bracket as in the pic posted above. Pin the injection pump gear to the pump's bracket. There are large and small holes in the pump gear, one of the small holes lines up with a corresponding hole in the bracket. Pin these two together. I use a Snap-On 11 mm deep well socket, I think I've read where an 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" long piece of 1/4" pipe with no threads works just as well.
      Do remember to take this pin out before turning over the engine.

      Quote Originally Posted by briano1234 View Post
      ....Cam is number 1 lobes pointing up, a flat bar will ride in the rear cam notch, and be parallel to the head casting.....
      The cam gear bolt must be loosened from the cam, the gear able to freely spin on the cam but not wobble. Do remember to torque this bolt once everything is set and before removing the cam locking bar.
      The locking bar is 4.5 mm (0.177") thick. An 11/64" drill bit is 0.172" diameter, pretty close. Use caution if using a drill bit, they are very hard and brittle and can shatter if much any rotational force is applied to the cam while a drill bit is in place locking it.
      Do remember to remove this locking bar or drill bit before any rotation.

      Quote Originally Posted by briano1234 View Post
      ...The Timing Belt should twist no more than 90 degrees between the IP and Cam.....
      The tensioner rotates up, not down, play with it, you'll see what this means.

      Quote Originally Posted by briano1234 View Post
      .......un bolt the ip, and take the bar stock out of the cam, did it move? If so do it all over.

      Now if it didn't move, then you rotate the engine at least 4 revolutions checking for binds,, do not force it.... If it is binding then back it off.... reset the timing again.

      If there are no binds in the rotation, then you should be good to go.......
      Un bolt the IP? Huh? That makes no sense to me.
      ---
      Tighten the cam bolt, remove the IP pin and the locking bar or drill bit from the cam, rotate the crankshaft at least two full turns clockwise by hand, four turns as Brian suggest sure won't hurt. If any binding is felt with hand rotating the crank is felt, STOP, back up, do it all again.
      If there are no binds, after the two or four turns, line everything back up, double check that everything lines up, marks, pump locking pin, cam locking bar or drill.

      Quote Originally Posted by briano1234 View Post
      ....

      IF the timing is off by as little as 1 tooth, or you neglected to buy a new timing belt... then CA-CA will occur. Usually you bend one or 2 valves, then they usually shear and spot weld to the piston top.... Then when the valve comes back up it usually breaks a 1 inch chunk out of the head.... Yep I know from first hand experience on a defective belt that had about 6 hours on it that skipped one tooth at 45 MPH....

      Don't go cheap on the belt.. I buy only VW for the diesel....Head gaskets as well as belts.
      Can't go wrong heeding this part.
      ---
      You should still seek out someone local with the proper dial indicator tools and experience to fine tune the injection pump lift/timing.
      Quote Originally Posted by kamzcab86
      I hate reading: "But I bought this car for $500 and don't want to put another dime into it."
      ____(hey, it's VW AND it's electrical, what's not to fail?) neoBentley+



    23. Member KnuckleUp2's Avatar
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      04-10-2012 06:21 PM #22
      good write up thanks
      ~__|__\__
      [(O)__(O)]
      LowerKlasse

    24. Senior Member briano1234's Avatar
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      04-10-2012 08:50 PM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by tolusina View Post

      Un bolt the IP? Huh? That makes no sense to me.
      ---
      Tighten the cam bolt, remove the IP pin and the locking bar or drill bit from the cam, rotate the crankshaft at least two full turns clockwise by hand, four turns as Brian suggest sure won't hurt. If any binding is felt with hand rotating the crank is felt, STOP, back up, do it all again.
      If there are no binds, after the two or four turns, line everything back up, double check that everything lines up, marks, pump locking pin, cam locking bar or drill.



      You should still seek out someone local with the proper dial indicator tools and experience to fine tune the injection pump lift/timing.

      Hey, un-bolt un-pin.... yep should of been more specific.... it is un-pin.... I just always used a bolt that I had for pinning it so I always had to un-bolt it.....

      As for the Dialing in of the ip, I usually did that after I made sure it would run..

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