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    Thread: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread

    1. Member TheTimob's Avatar
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      85 Scirocco
      07-12-2007 10:48 PM #1
      Here's the definitive Non-A/C Scirocco Post.
      ***If anybody has some good pics of a 16v cut down bracket out of the car, I'll stick that in this post, and belt info too!!!***
      =====================================
      Factory non-A/C setup (for 8v)
      Quote, originally posted by Part Numbers »
      8v Pulley Part Numbers - Non-A/C - 126 121 031
      With A/C 127 121 031
      With PS 127 121 031 A
      Belt 9.5x950mm 026 903 137 C
      Alternator Bracket Part Numbers -
      Non-A/C Bracket - Lower 049 903 103 B;
      Upper - 026 903 245 A

      The alternator is supposed to be a 55A or a 65A bosch alternator with a square plug. The 8v non-A/C brackets are simple:

      The non-A/C pullies are also simple:

      The belt is easy to get:


      This is the difference between alternator plugs:

      If using a 65A alt, 8gauge wire is fine, if using 90A, I suggest upgrading to 4 gauge cable.

      =====================================
      Early Factory non-A/C setup for 8v
      This is from very early cars...


      =====================================
      Factory non-A/C setup (for 16v!!!)
      Here's some more 16v info, courtesy of David Fertal in MD...
      Quote, originally posted by Part Numbers »
      the part # for the non-ac, non- power steering bracket is 051 260 885
      the part # for the non-ac, power steering bracket is 027 260 885 P
      alternator pulley is part # 049 903 119 L
      belt is 050 903 137 and is a 10mm x 950 length
      65 amp non-A/C alternator
      Bosch AL171X
      Worldwide 14936 (price as of 2/6/09 is $118.49)


      The Power steering version:

      The alternator only version (isn't it awesome?)

      These are the arms. The new lookin one has the provision for the star bolt, which makes tensioning the belt a lot easier...

      Here's a pic of that correct alternator pulley:

      Quote, originally posted by Dave »
      i think there might be a version for the 2.0l 16v also......that one bolts
      to the face of the block, instead of using the normal bracket at the top of
      the block that the 1.8 uses.

      (more to come...)

      =====================================
      Cut the bracket method (16v Only)
      Somebody can IM/mail/post some pics about this?
      Under Construction
      Quote, originally posted by Part Numbers »
      90 amp A/C alternator
      Bosch AL34X
      Worldwide 14799 (price as of 2/6/09 is $128.49)
      The belt is a 11mm wide by 950mm long belt. It appears that this is the maximum width you would want to go. sciroccojim's belt is a Dayco Top Cog 11A0950 - you can get that at any autoparts store.

      So far, I know what belt (see below), and here's the pics:
      Here's some pictures of sciroccojim's setup that I took on Sunday...




      =====================================
      Alternate Setups (Pun intended!)
      =====================================
      Mk3 ABA A/C bracket as non-A/C (works on 8v and 16v)
      Quote, originally posted by Part Numbers »
      The belt for this setup is a serpentine 6PK x 1035mm
      You also need the waterpump pulley from a 12v VR6 to make this work. The Part number is 028 121 031 K
      ABA - A/C Mk3 setup with auto-tensioner
      90 amp A/C alternator
      BOSCH part number AL0181X
      Worldwide reman part number: 14624
      120 amp high output A/C alternator
      BOSCH part number AL0184X
      Worldwide reman part number 14623

      Mk3 ABA. This one is VERY easy to find in the salvage yard. Get it off of any Mk3 2.0L 8v with A/C. These are a dime a dozen. get the alternator too, and all the mounting bolts. The bolts bolt the waterpump onto the block, and have studs that this bracket mounts to.
      Advantage: Parts are easy and cheap to get. You can get belts and alternators from joe blow's autoparts store.
      Disadvantage: On mk2 sciroccos - you have to bang in the frame rail a bit to clear the tensioner bolt on the arm.


      Grab list:
      Bracket with tensioner arm (2.0 8v)
      Alternator (90A) (2.0 8v)
      Bolts, and nuts that hold it to the waterpump (2.0 8v)
      Crank pulley (2.0 8v)
      Waterpump Pulley from a 12v VR6


      =====================================
      ABF Mk3 16v Setup - works on 8v and 16v

      The ABF bracket is similar to the ABA one, except there's no tensioner. You use the same pullies, ABA crank, the 028 121 031 K pulley from the VR6, and the same bolts to mount it to the block.
      Advantage: No banging the frame rail in!
      Disadvantage: Can be $ to get, alternator is kinda hard to find
      Quote, originally posted by Part Numbers »
      The belt for this setup is a Conti 6PK 894
      The 90A alternator is Bosch AL0187X (VW # 028 903 025 P)
      The 70A alternator is Bosch AL0185X (VW # 030 903 023 B)
      The 120A VR6 alternator, Bosch AL0184X (VW # Part #028 903 027 P) that DOES NOT WORK FOR THIS
      Ask for a 96 Jetta TDI non-A/C alternator, many FLAPS can order them

      ABF - Non-A/C Mk3 setup
      Calling this "ABF" is kinda misleading, as ABA mk3 cars did come to the US without A/C. There were some very interesting variations of them as well.
      Did you know, you could buy a 1996 Jetta GL with no A/C, but with power windows and locks? Whacko!
      70 amp non-A/C alternator Spring tensioner
      Bosch part number: AL0185X or 0-123-315-001
      Worldwide Reman part number: 14356 (price as of 2/6/09 is $119.49)
      VW part numbers: 028 903 025 G and 030 903 023 E
      Valeo part numbers: 2541821 or 436363 or 439000 or A11VI66
      Lucas (LOL) part number: A6785
      90 amp non-A/C alternator
      Bosch part number: AL0187X or 0-123-320-002
      Worldwide Reman part number: 14358 (price as of 2/6/09 is $164.49)
      VW part numbers: 028 903 025 P and 030 903 023 F
      ACDelco part number: 321-1712
      Lucas Part number: A6786
      Valeo part numbers: 2541814 or 2541814A or 436443 or 439002 or A13VI123
      Belts that might fit a mk3 non-A/C setup:
      These are six-rib serpentine belts - that's what the 6pk means. Measurements are in mm)
      PROPER belt - Continental 6PK 0894 (this belt has 6 ribs, and it is 894mm long)
      other belts:
      DAYCO 5060390 (it's 6pk by 0990mm)
      DAYCO 0560455 (it's 6pk by 1155mm) and I don't think this is right!
      DriveRite 390K6
      Gates 6708 or K060388 or K060390
      VW part number 999.192.283.50

      Notice the spring:

      That's what tensions the alternator. You loosen the pivot bolt, and the 19mm tension bolt, and let the spring tension the alternator, then you just tighten the bolts and roll!

      I think that's the ideal setup, especially for the 16v. The beautiful thing is that you can keep power steering if you have it - just keep the Mk3's power steering pulley when you grab the crank pulley.
      You gotta buy this from a euro parts source (such as Mr. Andy! ), or, there's a guy on the vortex who sells this setup new for a pretty good price. (I'm sure he'll bump his thread after I post this )


      Modified by TheTimob at 10:20 PM 2-7-2009

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    3. Member
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      07-13-2007 12:16 AM #2
      very thorough timbo!!! well from my recent experience the belt is a 10x950 for non a/c car with power steering but when switching I realized you can run the stock 13x950 belt also but its really your personal preference

    4. 07-14-2007 07:02 PM #3
      bump this up, it sorta went unnoticed
      timbo ill be able to post up a pic of a ground down stock alternator bracket soon. i'm in the process of having to do that itll be a day or two tho

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    6. Member TheTimob's Avatar
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      85 Scirocco
      07-14-2007 07:11 PM #4
      Quote, originally posted by pbpube16v »
      timbo ill be able to post up a pic of a ground down stock alternator bracket soon. i'm in the process of having to do that itll be a day or two tho

      Cool. Thanks dude! Let us know what belt you end up with as well.

      Just some Non-A/C Scirocco Specific Info (I moved if from the OP)
      =====================================
      This first part is just info on what a non-A/C rocco looks like
      Here is the center console of a Factory non-A/C Scirocco. This one has gauges replacing the radio, but otherwise stock.

      There are 3 speeds on my fan, and 3 levers. The left lever opens and closes the foot vents. The right lever opens and closes the defroster vents. The air that doesn't go out those goes out the center vent.

      The side vents only get non-heated air.
      The fan is not covered, and there is no giant duct thingy in there. Another bonus - the vents are controled by cables, not vacuum lines - so no vacuum leaks!!!

      Also notice the shelf under the glovebox. That's the non-A/C shelf... I've seen them sell for $$$ because of their rarity.
      Modified by timbo2132 at 8:45 AM 7-25-2007


      Modified by TheTimob at 10:22 PM 2-7-2009

    7. 07-14-2007 07:35 PM #5
      Quote, originally posted by timbo2132 »
      Cool. Thanks dude! Let us know what belt you end up with as well.

      10-4. roger that!

    8. 07-15-2007 10:59 AM #6
      my bad, wrong thread...

    9. 07-15-2007 11:53 PM #7
      This is perfect, I was just starting to look for this information again. Hope to see more info on deleting it in 16v's soon.

    10. 07-16-2007 01:52 PM #8
      Quote, originally posted by Ryan9118 »
      Hope to see more info on deleting it in 16v's soon.

      I'm halfway thru this process actually, and so far the only hard part was NOT shearing one of the alternator bracket bolts . gonna order some today (i'm hopin P4VWs has them, if not theres another site i can get 'em from), and as soon as i get 'em ill start workin.
      i can go ahead and tell you what i already know (sans pictures, which sucks i know )
      1) remove everything in the way of the a/c compressor and condensor (a/c lines, upper rad hose, rad, alternator, and remove the bolt holding the ps pump to the alternator bracket)
      2) unbolt and remove the alternator bracket (youll have to remove the upper timin belt cover in order to get access to the uppermost bolt, which you need an allen key to remove )
      3) youll probably have to grind the metal around the rightside mount where the a/c compressor used to bolt to. and then you have two options: 1) cut off/ grind down the entire section where the alternator used to mount, or 2) grind down just enough of the bracket to allow the alternator (in the a/c compressor location) to articulate upwards quite a ways. in either case, i recommend keeping the uppermost mount (the one where you had to use a hex key) intact for added strength.
      4) my alternator wouldnt fit in the a/c compressor location because it wasn't wide enough, but all i had to do to fix that was get some heavy duty vice grips and pinch that sleeve in the mount on the alternator and knock it outwards.
      5) next step is to bolt it all in place (this is as far as i got before that cursed bolt crapped out ), but i did notice two things that must be corrected: 1) the stock pulley won't line up with the others, and 2) the long steel thing that bolts to the top of the alternator will need some washers behind it to make it line up correctly with the alternator in it's new place.
      6) fix the two problems in step 5 with washers and loctite
      7) use _____ belt for this new setup (TBA when i figure it out )
      8) put everything back together and behold! you just shed a bajillion pounds
      when i get more work done on this i'll update this procedure with pictures and maybe a better procedure haha. i'm not as detailed as timbo, but i didnt leave any important information out

    11. Member TheTimob's Avatar
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      85 Scirocco
      07-16-2007 02:57 PM #9
      Check the OP for pics of the 16v cut bracket setup...


      Modified by timbo2132 at 8:56 AM 7-25-2007

    12. Member TheTimob's Avatar
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      85 Scirocco
      07-16-2007 10:25 PM #10
      Bump for the nighty-nite crew...

    13. Member TheTimob's Avatar
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      85 Scirocco
      07-18-2007 06:49 AM #11
      So, to sum up:
      Vbelt:
      8v: Stock non-A/C - inexpensive, and easy
      16v: Cut bracket - pretty much free
      Serpentine belt: (works both for 8v and 16v)
      ABA - inexpensive, and easy way, but requires framerail "modification" on both Mk1 and Mk2 roccos. (mk1 to a lesser extent)
      ABF - Ideal, but expensive to get.

    14. Member TheTimob's Avatar
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      85 Scirocco
      07-23-2007 04:23 PM #12
      Hey, Derek, did ya get that belt done?

    15. Member TheTimob's Avatar
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      85 Scirocco
      07-24-2007 07:56 AM #13
      Here's some more 16v info, courtesy of David Fertal in MD...
      the part # for the non-ac, non- power steering bracket is 051 260 885
      the part # for the non-ac, power steering bracket is 027 260 885 P

      The Power steering version:

      The alternator only version (isn't it awesome?)

      These are the arms. The new lookin one has the provision for the star bolt, which makes tensioning the belt a lot easier...

      Quote, originally posted by Dave »
      i think there might be a version for the 2.0l 16v also......that one bolts
      to the face of the block, instead of using the normal bracket at the top of
      the block that the 1.8 uses.



      Modified by TheTimob at 10:23 PM 2-7-2009

    16. 07-24-2007 01:30 PM #14
      Quote, originally posted by timbo2132 »
      Hey, Derek, did ya get that belt done?

      havnt had loads of time for the rocc lately (working= [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif[/IMG] ), plus my bolts and other stuff from p4vw should be here tomorrow...ish...
      im gonna go work on it today, i finally have some free time and i have some new euro parts to put on *big thanks to Tim Chunks, and soon everyone will see why*

    17. Member TheTimob's Avatar
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      85 Scirocco
      07-24-2007 04:22 PM #15
      For Factory 16v non-A/C bracket:
      alternator pulley is part # 049 903 119 L
      belt is 050 903 137 and is a 10mm x 950 length

    18. 07-24-2007 09:09 PM #16
      i got a little work done today, nothing special. i forgot my camera tho
      i tried a 10x950 belt with my setup and it was too small, the stock upper alternator arm thing wouldn't reach the alternator. if a long enough turnbuckle was used in lieu of that arm it'd be fine. i'm just gonna work on finding a large enough belt for it, gonna try a 10x1245 and see if thatll work.
      once the whole setup is in place i'll post pics

    19. 07-24-2007 09:21 PM #17
      Explain to me, Timbo....
      Why in the hell do you still rock with a 1.8L 8V?

      You have the knowledge, ability, and time....upgrade that to something worth that MSnS you have installed

    20. Member TheTimob's Avatar
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      07-25-2007 08:35 AM #18
      Well, I'm actually happy with the power I have here in my 1.8.

      I use this car as a highway cruiser, putting about 16,000 miles a year. I just need it to be reliable, get good milage.
      As a bonus, the 1.8 looks clean if you shave most everything!
      EDIT: I updated the OP with the 16v non-A/C alternator pulley...


      Modified by timbo2132 at 8:46 AM 7-25-2007

    21. Member markeysscirocco's Avatar
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      09-15-2007 12:39 AM #19
      Do we know where the guys that sells the Non-A/C setup is?
      I like Turbo's
      Markeysscirocco

    22. Member markeysscirocco's Avatar
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      09-15-2007 12:40 AM #20
      or how to contact Mr. Andy!?
      I like Turbo's
      Markeysscirocco

    23. 09-15-2007 03:32 AM #21
      I want to go with the factory non a/c setup for an 8v and I was wondering if I just need the upper and lower bracket?

    24. Member TheTimob's Avatar
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      09-15-2007 07:51 AM #22
      If you have an A/C car - you should just need the alternator arm.
      I think later A/C cars already have that lower bracket holding the A/C bracket on. They also have most of the upper bracket there - but the arm that goes to the alternator is different.

    25. Member TheTimob's Avatar
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      09-15-2007 07:52 AM #23
      Andy (polov8)'s profile is here https://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...40901

      Or, check this thread:
      https://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3350414


      Modified by timbo2132 at 8:32 AM 9-15-2007

    26. Member red16vman's Avatar
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      09-17-2007 09:51 AM #24
      I'm in the middle of an engine swap and just removed the a/c compressor. I noticed it wouldn't take much to get the alternator in the a/c bracket, just a bit of shaving as others have mentioned. But then you need the pulley to stick out farther. Does a non a/c 16v alternator have a pulley that sticks out farther? If so, I could just put on that pulley and be good to go! Or is there a 16v non a/c bracket that would be a better option?
      2010 Golf Sportline
      1986 Scirocco 16v (RIP 1986-2010)

    27. Member TheTimob's Avatar
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      09-17-2007 09:59 AM #25
      The 16v was never sold in the US market without A/C - that means that cutting/shaving and all that are your only options.
      Now, you could shim the pully with lots of washers to make it stick out farther.
      You could also have a machine shop turn a new pulley for you - it's a pretty simple thing for a shop to do. They just have to copy the dimensions and make it longer.

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