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    Thread: Rear Differential Whine Finalized

    1. 10-26-2007 04:37 PM #1
      Ok there have been quite a few threads on this subject lately. I want this laid to rest!
      I currently have gone through 2 rear differential/final drive assemblies and honestly i don't want to pay for another. I track the hell out of my car and i refuse to believe that this is something that can't be upgraded to last longer.
      I have run OEM fluid as well as Motul Gear fluid, that is supposed to handle over 35K miles of aggressive driving and didn't last much past 20K before the new rear diff started to whine. Well i can honestly say i don't think its the fluid.
      What i would like to know is who has this whine during deceleration as well as which Haldex controller you are running(Stock, Blue, Orange), and how many miles on your car. Do you track it, autox, drag, daily drive, or any combination.
      I'd create a poll but dayum thats a lot of different options.
      To the meat:
      I have sent off a whining rear differential assembly/final drive (my first one to break) to Gary Peloquin to tear it apart and finally get to the bottom of this. I know he has quite a bit of knowledge on differentials and I'm confident he can help our community finally figure this out. Hopefully i should know something more early next week. I will report back when he finally is done with his inquiry and testing.
      What i do know so far is that straight out of the packaging, even moving some of the components with his finger, Gary definitely agrees there was something moving making a noise it shouldn't be.
      I'll keep everyone posted.

      [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
      ******UPDATE******
      I spoke with Gary today and it seems that the pinion shaft is what is failing. As a result of "oil starvation"! Here's the bad news it doesn't have an individual part number so in order to get it you need to buy a complete new rear diff.
      So i pose a few questions: Now whats puzzling to me is that i could see on this first one as its the stock one from the factory, but a second one failing as a result of oil, which i know has more than the required amount? Gary said that we should run a 85w90 instead of the 75w as it would protect better and would not be harmful. Could we be working the rear so hard that its actually "cooking" oil right off the parts?
      Alright CSI's lets get to work.
      Images of the damaged Pinions. Sorry for the bad pictures i didn't take them and






      Modified by [email protected] at 2:06 PM 10-29-2007

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    3. Member FiftyPence's Avatar
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      10-26-2007 04:43 PM #2
      Wow, if Gary Peloguin himself is looking at this for you then I'm sure he will get to the bottom of it once and for all.
      Good luck in finding a solution, like youre gonna need it with Gary's help its pretty much fixed already

    4. 10-26-2007 04:48 PM #3
      - Blue haldex controller for about 40k
      - Hard driving and track the car
      - Used Amsiol gearoil at my last fluid change, about 20k ago
      - Haldex fluid changed at 35k

      In my case they changed the pinion bearings and lock nut about 3k ago.
      I havent put the blue controller on since then and i`m not sure i do it again.


      Modified by 2u4uR32 at 4:49 PM 10-26-2007

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    6. 10-26-2007 04:52 PM #4
      Quote, originally posted by [email protected] »
      What i would like to know is who has this whine during deceleration as well as which Haldex controller you are running(Stock, Blue, Orange), and how many miles on your car. Do you track it, autox, drag, daily drive, or any combination.

      I have noticed a pronounced whine on decel as long as I have had my car. It is certainly most noticable during auto-x runs. I haven't noticed that it has ever gotten worse over the time I have owned it (since 04-04)
      I have the stock controller, I do 5-10 auto-x's, and 4-6 track days per season plus daily driver. My car has 50k miles on it and I have changed the rear diff oil once, with OEM. Oh, and I run street compound tires, not R-compounds.


      Modified by ValveFloat at 2:54 PM 10-26-2007

    7. Member BLU R32's Avatar
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      10-26-2007 04:53 PM #5
      Daily driver with whine only from second to first downshifts...
      Changed original fluid at 30,000 miles and had metal shavings in the rear differential...
      Currently at 60,000 miles and no increase in noise

    8. Member johnnyvonswanson's Avatar
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      10-26-2007 04:55 PM #6
      i know everyone here with this problem will be so greatefull if in fact the problem gets solved. [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] i have the same problem (i think) i have never tracked the car, stock haldex controler, it now has 50K. the whine started at about 40K after the second change of the haldex fuid. its not unbearable, just enough to piss me off everytime i engine brake the car(deceleration).
      I do realize that most people seem to think it comes from the rear diff, but i also have an 03 gtivr6 with 50K and it screams while decelerating, way worse than the R. no rear diff there?!?.
      Joe

    9. Senior Member PowerDubs's Avatar
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      10-26-2007 05:17 PM #7
      The noise is indeed from the rear.. it is not the actual diff making the noise, it is the nut on the pinion gear. I spoke with Gary about this as well as Haldex themselves in Sweden. Haldex said it was a known issue.
      Vw claimed to me that I couldn't have my 'failed' rear end when it was replaced because they were sending it to Vw for inspection, but just last weekend I met a tech guy from the dealer who came up to me at show & go and said "Yea, I have your old rearend, I am going to rebuild it for a spare". I didn't say anything, but I was thinking WTF!
      In theory it should be simple enough to lock the nut in place, but lets see what Gary comes up with.
      We really should keep this all in 1 thread as there are now several threads about this.
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    10. Member stripethree's Avatar
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      10-26-2007 05:18 PM #8
      Quote, originally posted by [email protected] »
      I have sent off a whining rear differential assembly/final drive (my first one to break) to Gare y Peloquin to tear it apart and finally get to the bottom of this. I know he has quite a bit of knowledge on differentials and I'm confident he can help our community finally figure this out. Hopefully i should know something more early next week. I will report back when he finally is done with his inquiry and testing.
      What i do know so far is that straight out of the packaging, even moving some of the components with his finger, Gary definitely agrees there was something moving making a noise it shouldn't be.
      I'll keep everyone posted.

      Good work sir. Here's hoping he figures it out. I need a second option before I say my car whines, I swear it might just exhaust noise or my paranoia and it doesn't seem consistent. Anyone have video of the whine with good sound?

    11. Member Daemon42's Avatar
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      10-26-2007 05:24 PM #9
      Been running BHPP since 11/04, or about 47 thousand miles and
      10-12 track days.
      I've heard it whine a few times, but only if I pushed it while it was still cold.
      Once warmed up it's quiet.
      I look forward to hearing what Gary's got to say about it.
      If it becomes a problem for me, I'll definitely try replacing the pinion bearing
      and lock nut first. I think there's a thrust load that's causing slop to develop
      over time.
      ian


    12. Member 95GLX's Avatar
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      10-26-2007 05:29 PM #10
      I get a whine in the all motor car. First time I went to change the fluid it was bone dry. Whine is back again, will be checking fluid level tomorrow.
      Anthony

    13. Senior Member PowerDubs's Avatar
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      10-26-2007 05:30 PM #11
      I don't really know how bad it is to have it back off anyway...there is only soo much it is going to move. I doubt the bearing itself would need to be replaced. I'm thinking peen the nut, or worst case pin the nut.
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      10-26-2007 05:55 PM #12
      Look forward to the findings...
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    15. Member Patryk R32's Avatar
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      10-26-2007 06:18 PM #13
      Quote, originally posted by PowerDubs »
      The noise is indeed from the rear.. it is not the actual diff making the noise, it is the nut on the pinion gear. I spoke with Gary about this as well as Haldex themselves in Sweden. Haldex said it was a known issue.
      Vw claimed to me that I couldn't have my 'failed' rear end when it was replaced because they were sending it to Vw for inspection, but just last weekend I met a tech guy from the dealer who came up to me at show & go and said "Yea, I have your old rearend, I am going to rebuild it for a spare". I didn't say anything, but I was thinking WTF!
      In theory it should be simple enough to lock the nut in place, but lets see what Gary comes up with.
      We really should keep this all in 1 thread as there are now several threads about this.
      We usually have to keep the part until VW pays for it. And sometimes they do ask for it back...it all depends.

    16. Member zippy_109's Avatar
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      10-26-2007 07:40 PM #14
      6-8 AutoX events per year, on RComps, Stock controller, 30k miles. Heard the decel whine last spring, and it preceded to get worse. I went to the dealer and they installed remote acoustic sensors on the car and drove it around. They found the sound was coming from the FRONT diff. VW replaced the trans under warranty and the decel whine is gone. The feedback I got from the tech is that the front diff output shaft to the driveline was making the noise. Sounds similar to the root cause of the rear whine.

    17. Member Daemon42's Avatar
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      10-26-2007 07:45 PM #15
      My PTU up front (takeoff from the tranny to rear propshaft) has whined
      on and off since day one. I've heard it other low mile R's as well and I've never
      worried about it. I do think it has it's own sealed reservoir though, so I'd be
      inclined to check that before replacing the whole front tranny/diff.
      Unfortunately the PTU doesn't have it's own part #. It's always shown
      together with the tranny. That seems kinda silly.
      ian

    18. 10-26-2007 08:49 PM #16
      Quote, originally posted by GRRRR32 »
      ... everytime i engine brake the car(deceleration).

      Its not when engine breaking, its normal a car whinnes then.
      It came clearly from the rear of the car and in my case it started to whine on deaccelaration in all gears, after 3 days it became so bad that i even could hear it slighty in normal driving, i could never have driven with this car for +10k miles like some of you.
      Edit: you shouldnt enigne brake btw

    19. Member zippy_109's Avatar
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      10-26-2007 09:46 PM #17
      Quote, originally posted by Daemon42 »
      My PTU up front (takeoff from the tranny to rear propshaft) has whined
      on and off since day one. I've heard it other low mile R's as well and I've never
      worried about it. I do think it has it's own sealed reservoir though, so I'd be
      inclined to check that before replacing the whole front tranny/diff.
      Unfortunately the PTU doesn't have it's own part #. It's always shown
      together with the tranny. That seems kinda silly.
      ian

      I've had the accel whine since day one, and it's come and gone over time. This was a much louder, deeper noise during abrupt deccel - on the throttle in 1st past 4k then off throttle = instant growl. Once someone came up to me to ask to see my blower I knew it was more than normal gear noise.
      Since this was warranty work I let VW do what they do - replace the entire unit. The accel gear noise is actually a bit more noticeable with the new trans but the loud decel noise is now gone. [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

    20. Member mshab356's Avatar
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      10-26-2007 10:12 PM #18
      i DO get the whine during deceleration.
      stock haldex, regular and hard driving with OCCASIONAL tracking, havent changed my haldex oil as far as i know since i bought the car (5200 miles, and i dont know if the dealership did it at 20k service), car has 25,700 miles on it, all with stock tranny oil.

    21. 10-26-2007 10:30 PM #19
      I'm having the entire ass-end of the car warrantied at the dealer next week, all of the parts are in. They're swapping the Orange controller over for me, as that's clearly not the issue.
      I know people with all different colored controllers, all different levels of tracking/driving... everyone has this problem sooner or later.
      [email protected] told me it's because VW only filled the fluid halfway from the factory... all of the Audi TT's don't have this issue. Regardless it's not our fault and I'm definitely going to baby this new unit in terms of maintenance.

    22. Member Daemon42's Avatar
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      10-26-2007 10:43 PM #20
      Quote, originally posted by smashtheqube »
      [email protected] told me it's because VW only filled the fluid halfway from the factory...

      For whatever it's worth, I opened the rear diff inspection/fill hole before
      I drained it, and verified that the fluid level was where it should be,
      just below the hole.
      Quote »
      all of the Audi TT's don't have this issue. Regardless it's not our fault and I'm definitely going to baby this new unit in terms of maintenance.

      As for Audis, the only one of equivalent vintage that has Haldex and
      the 1:1 final drive rear diff the TT, and frankly, I don't think their owners as
      a whole, drive em as hard or as put as many miles on as fast as we do.
      ian

    23. 10-26-2007 10:49 PM #21
      Its seems like some people have problems with the front diff in the car, still more people seem to have rear diff problems and with various setups , must be some design issue with the unit then.
      Good point about the TT drivers

    24. 10-26-2007 10:53 PM #22
      Ive been watching this board for about 3 years now and Ive learned a few things. One of them is not to modify the AWD system in this car. I think those modules just aggrivate things and cause problems. I feel that changing that rear diff fluid every 50K is a good thing to do. Also chaning the Haldex fluid as specified. Warming up the car before beating on it should be a no brainer but people just cant help themselves for some reason.
      VF Engineering specifies that you do not drive the car above 2400 RPM until 5 minutes AFTER the Water Temp gauge reaches normal. This is to protect the Supercharger. Apparently the rest of the car likes this treatment. I have done this with my car since about 35K and im not having mechanical failures. I drive my car hard if not harder then most. Plus the added stress of 8psi in my manifold on stock clutch and brakes.
      Then again, I could just have a Wednesday car.
      Im @ 66K right now and Ive been putting off changing the rear diff fluid because I dont have one of those little pumps to feed the oil in.
      Anyone know where I can get one of those oil pumps so I can get the oil up into the differential fill port? Thanks.




      Modified by factoryfast at 11:02 PM 10-26-2007

    25. Member wrh3's Avatar
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      10-26-2007 11:04 PM #23
      Quote, originally posted by factoryfast »
      Im @ 66K right now and Ive been putting off changing the rear diff fluid because I dont have one of those little pumps to feed the oil in.
      Anyone know where I can get one of those oil pumps so I can get the oil up into the differential fill port? Thanks.

      I got mine at the local McParts Store (Autozone or Advance Auto?) for ~$10

    26. Member Daemon42's Avatar
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      10-26-2007 11:06 PM #24
      On the other hand, I have had the BHPP longer than any of you peeps,
      have driven my car like it was stolen for 58k miles, and haven't had any
      drivetrain problems. As has been said above, there are people who've
      had problems with the rear diff, who are basically stock.
      Your mileage may vary.. Literally. Until someone can actually point to
      something that's breaking, and explain why, I'm not buyin
      *any* of the "if you just do X, it won't happen" arguments.
      But yes, you should warm up the car properly when it's cold. That's
      just common sense with any engine. VF's recommended procedure is because
      the coolant temp comes up much faster than the oil temp, and we have
      no oil temp gauge. Takes a few minutes to get up to what I consider
      minimum operating temp for the oil, of 160+F.
      ian


      Modified by Daemon42 at 9:11 PM 10-26-2007

    27. Member bostoneric's Avatar
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      10-26-2007 11:09 PM #25
      I'm with ian...
      I'm at 55k miles and have only had 1 rear diff/haldex/etc fluid change and have had 0 issues!


      (knocks on wood)

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