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    Thread: check out this compressor map and tell me what you think

    1. Member AudiA4_18T's Avatar
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      08-19-2008 03:39 PM #76
      hey man your the compressor map king lol. That Holset looks like good stuff

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      08-19-2008 04:07 PM #77
      Quote, originally posted by AudiA4_18T »
      That Holset looks like good stuff

      That 2.0 stroker on your A4 has got to have an upgraded turbo. Let me know what you have and I can see if I have a map for it. Also, by stroker do you mean 95.5mm stroke x 81mm bore?
      The Bible Teaches That Few are Saved. Why Hell Must Be Eternal. Scientific Evidence for God. "The perverse are hard to be corrected, and the number of fools is infinite." (Ecclesiastes 1:15).

    4. 08-19-2008 06:25 PM #78
      red holset for the win on price and gt35r potential
      i really appreciate your help with these maps it means alot
      how would frankies setup with bbt3t67 his FS ad says its a 2020 stroker not sure where this map is
      also if would please do one with a bullseye s258 it can be found here http://www.bullseyepower.com/S200.asp for a stock bore and stroke

      when this thread gets done it needs to be stickied [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

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      08-19-2008 06:30 PM #79
      Quote, originally posted by spoolin turbo s »
      how would frankies setup with bbt3t67 his FS ad says its a 2020 stroker not sure where this map is
      also if would please do one with a bullseye s258 it can be found here http://www.bullseyepower.com/S200.asp for a stock bore and stroke

      I'll check into it tomorrow. [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
      The Bible Teaches That Few are Saved. Why Hell Must Be Eternal. Scientific Evidence for God. "The perverse are hard to be corrected, and the number of fools is infinite." (Ecclesiastes 1:15).

    7. 08-19-2008 07:02 PM #80
      thanks
      id just like to see how the t3t67 map actually correlates to his setup and super high hp dyno
      and i think that s258 would be a sweet turbo [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

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      08-19-2008 07:27 PM #81
      Below is the T3 Super 60 with standard bore and stroke (81mm x 86.4mm) RPM lines overlaid. Some people claim that the Super 60 is better than the GT28RS. You will also find some comparative maps that can hopefully address this issue.
      Here is the T3 Super 60. Notice how there is very little usable area above the 6000 RPM line on the map.

      Here is the Super 60 overlaid with the GT28RS (see page one of thread for the GT28RS without overlay). Notice how the GT28RS has a lot more usable area to the lower, right side of the map. This means that the GT28RS can produce more corrected air flow at these pressure ratios. Sure, the Super 60 can just about produce 35 lbs./min of air flow (about 350 hp), but it has to work a lot harder doing it as compared to the GT28RS. Also, the GT28RS can produce about 36.2 lbs./min of air (about 360+hp) and it can do this at lower compressor speeds.

      The T3 Super 60 is more comparable IMO to the GT28R (see below). But again, you will notice that the GT28R has more usable area to the lower, right hand side of the map. Also, notice that the GT28R has it's peak efficiency line to the right of the Super 60 ranging from about 4000 RPMs to 4800 RPMs. Whereas the Super 60's peak efficiency line ranges from 3400 RPMs to 4400 RPMs.

      Although the Super 60 can produce slightly more airflow up top as compared to the GT28R (about **10 hp according to the map), it has to work very hard to do this. It should be clear that the Super 60 is not better than either of these GT turbos.


      Modified by mainstayinc at 7:32 AM 8-20-2008
      The Bible Teaches That Few are Saved. Why Hell Must Be Eternal. Scientific Evidence for God. "The perverse are hard to be corrected, and the number of fools is infinite." (Ecclesiastes 1:15).

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      08-20-2008 10:05 AM #82
      Quote, originally posted by spoolin turbo s »
      also if would please do one with a bullseye s258 it can be found here http://www.bullseyepower.com/S200.asp for a stock bore and stroke

      Below is the Bullseye S258 with standard bore and stroke overlaid (81mm x 86.4mm). I also included the Bulleye S256 for comparison. Both of these turbos are not suited to the stock displacement or rev. limiter as you can see from the map. The S258's surge line is at 4100 RPMs. Peak efficiency ranges from 6000 RPMs to 4600 RPMs depending on the pressure ratio. With rev. limiter increased at this displacement power band ranges from 4100 RPMs to 9000+ RPMs.


      The S258 would be better suited to (minimum) 2.0L of displacement with raised rev. limiter IMO (see below).

      The Bullseye S256 is comparable to the Garrett GT3076R (aka GT30R) and maybe slightly better b/c it has a lower surge line and more top end. See comparison below with 2.0L RPMs overlaid (82.5mm x 92.8mm).

      EDIT: The Bullseye S258 is comparable to the Garrett GT3582R (aka GT35R) in terms of maximum air flow, but clearly has a better surge line than the GT35R above P2/P1 = 2.3 (about 19 psi) as it does not fall off as fast as the GT35R. See comparison below with 2.0L RPMs overlaid (82.5mm x 92.8mm).
      Last edited by mainstayinc; 11-11-2017 at 06:35 PM.
      The Bible Teaches That Few are Saved. Why Hell Must Be Eternal. Scientific Evidence for God. "The perverse are hard to be corrected, and the number of fools is infinite." (Ecclesiastes 1:15).

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      08-20-2008 10:30 AM #83
      Quote, originally posted by spoolin turbo s »
      how would frankies setup with bbt3t67 his FS ad says its a 2020 stroker not sure where this map is

      I couldn't find a compressor map for the T3/67. Anyone? Also, can you give me a link to frankie's FS page so that I can take a closer look at his setup?
      The Bible Teaches That Few are Saved. Why Hell Must Be Eternal. Scientific Evidence for God. "The perverse are hard to be corrected, and the number of fools is infinite." (Ecclesiastes 1:15).

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      08-20-2008 10:53 AM #84
      Quote, originally posted by enginerd »
      regardless of pressure ratio the bearing sections on the turbos are not designed to run these high temperatures and will suffer a seal or bearing failure prematurely compared to a borg warner or garret turbo designed for 1850 - 1900F temperatures.

      Holset of UK responded to my inquiry about maximum operating temps. See below.
      Quote, originally posted by James Moorhouse »
      The maximum operating temperature of our turbochargers varies but they should not under any circumstances exceed 760° Celsius.
      If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to ask
      Thank you
      James Moorhouse
      Marketing Co-ordinator
      Cummins Turbo Technologies Ltd
      St Andrew's Road
      Huddersfield
      HD1 6RA
      United Kingdom
      Tel +44 1484 832637
      Fax +44 1484 440385
      cummins.com/turbos

      760 degr. C is 1400 degr. F. So, according to Holset, these would not be suitable for higher temp. applications. Just curious, does anybody see EGTs above 1400 degr. F?
      EDIT: I also contacted Limit Engineering and asked them the same question about their Garrett GT series turbos for comparison.


      Modified by mainstayinc at 2:43 PM 9-22-2008
      The Bible Teaches That Few are Saved. Why Hell Must Be Eternal. Scientific Evidence for God. "The perverse are hard to be corrected, and the number of fools is infinite." (Ecclesiastes 1:15).

    12. 08-20-2008 01:32 PM #85
      here is the link to frankies stuff https://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3945155
      the map would just be under t67

    13. 08-20-2008 01:57 PM #86

      A stock 1.8T runs way over 1400F. All out race 1.8T's run 1700 - 1800 all the time. 900+ °C
      The cummins 6.7L i have running at work on an engine dyno runs 1250 degrees at rated speed and torque. This is without the water cooled EGR. So diesel turbos are not a good choice for a 1.8T.
      An 8Valve rabbit engine may run ok with a diesel turbo because they need lower EGT's to keep the head alive. *V's don't like over 1600F. A 1.8T generates too much heat.

      Your T3 super 60 comparison to a 28R is a little misleading. You need to consider the turbine section as well as the compressor map. I think you will find that a 28R has a more restrictive exhaust housing/wheel. They generally dyno higher numbers than a 28R with a slower spool up time, and more area up top at the 6K range. The 28R / RS is still a better choice as the super 60 is less tolerant of heat (even the water cooled version) also less tolerant of high loading from 20+ PSI.
      The exhaust backpressure hurts the %VE on these engines when you have 40 psi in the exhaust manifold.


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      08-20-2008 04:14 PM #87
      Quote, originally posted by enginerd »
      A stock 1.8T runs way over 1400F. All out race 1.8T's run 1700 - 1800 all the time. 900+ °C

      I would like to see some EGT logs to verify actual temps and whether they are intermittent or sustained temperatures.
      Quote, originally posted by enginerd »
      The cummins 6.7L i have running at work on an engine dyno runs 1250 degrees at rated speed and torque. This is without the water cooled EGR. So diesel turbos are not a good choice for a 1.8T.

      Before I draw the same conclusion I would like to hear back from Garrett on this issue and see if they can verify your 1850 to 1900 degr. F range for thier GT turbos. Unfortunately, ATP Turbo was not helpful when I contacted their tech. deptartment.
      Quote, originally posted by enginerd »
      Your T3 super 60 comparison to a 28R is a little misleading. You need to consider the turbine section as well as the compressor map. I think you will find that a 28R has a more restrictive exhaust housing/wheel.

      It is not misleading. The 0.64 T28 turbine housing on the GT28R is equivalent to the 0.48 T31 option on the Super 60. So, the comparison with the GT28R is accurate. The fact that experience shows a slower spoolup for the Super 60 probably means that people are opting for the larger 0.63 T31 turbine housing. Also, the turbine side should not effect the comparison of the turbo's compressor range and efficiency.
      Also, the compressor maps clearly shows a better spoolup for the Super 60 below P2/P1 = 1.7 (about 10.3 psi). Above that point, the GT28R has a lower surge limit and better spoolup all the way up to it's maximum speed.
      Quote, originally posted by enginerd »
      They generally dyno higher numbers than a 28R with a slower spool up time, and more area up top at the 6K range.

      That is the conclusion of the comparison. That the Super 60 has more up top than the GT28R. However, it would really be maxed out at that point.
      Quote, originally posted by enginerd »
      The 28R / RS is still a better choice as the super 60 is less tolerant of heat (even the water cooled version) also less tolerant of high loading from 20+ PSI..

      I agree. And I would add, as stated in the comparison, that the GT28R/RS has a lot more usable air flow throughout most of the turbo's operating range.


      Modified by mainstayinc at 7:34 AM 8-21-2008
      The Bible Teaches That Few are Saved. Why Hell Must Be Eternal. Scientific Evidence for God. "The perverse are hard to be corrected, and the number of fools is infinite." (Ecclesiastes 1:15).

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      08-20-2008 04:24 PM #88
      I'm still looking for the map.

      http://www.full-race.com/catal...id=63


      Modified by mainstayinc at 1:21 PM 8-21-2008
      The Bible Teaches That Few are Saved. Why Hell Must Be Eternal. Scientific Evidence for God. "The perverse are hard to be corrected, and the number of fools is infinite." (Ecclesiastes 1:15).

    16. Banned 20aeman's Avatar
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      08-20-2008 04:27 PM #89
      I'm still at a loss as to which 2860r to choose.
      If I were working with a regular manifold, I'd go with the 5..but I get the feeling that the ko3 manifold and turbine housing will severely limit the topend potential and increase spool times.
      At least with the 7...it'll flow within the means of the eliminator housing/ko3 turbine....but I won't have any top end.....
      If only there was a turbo right in between the two..
      Mainstay, do you think I can put down 280whp with the 2860r-7 on e85/104 octane?

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      08-20-2008 05:26 PM #90
      Quote, originally posted by 20aeman »
      Mainstay, do you think I can put down 280whp with the 2860r-7 on e85/104 octane?

      Well, according to the map the 2860R-7 is capable of making about 31.5 lbs./min of airflow (about 315 hp). Discounting for drivetrain friction loss you end up with about 274 whp. I think that you are right about the stock manifold and K03-style turbine housing limiting the top end of this turbo. The stock manifold makes a 90 degr. downward turn, and has a very small outlet by BT standards. I don't think that you will be satified selecting a turbo based around the limits of your manifold.
      One solution is to buy a higher-flowing stock replacement manifold and porting out the outlet by several mm's. You can then port/gasket match the turbine flange on your eliminator. This should open up things by 10% to 20% (it doesn't take much). Then, at least you know that you are getting the most out of this setup (make sure there is enough material on either flange). Also, porting is not that difficult if you have the right tools. Personally, I recommend a laminator trimmer/cutter (i.e.: router) and some 1/2 inch to 5/8 inch carbide burs. The trimmer/cutter allows you to keep the carbide bit perpendicular to the cutting surface.
      What turbo came with the eliminator housing that warrants replacing? The only **from the factory** turbo that comes with the 28xx series turbine housing that I am aware of is the GT28RS or GT2871. It sounds like you only have the eliminator turbine housing and not the turbo itself.


      Modified by mainstayinc at 2:44 PM 8-20-2008
      The Bible Teaches That Few are Saved. Why Hell Must Be Eternal. Scientific Evidence for God. "The perverse are hard to be corrected, and the number of fools is infinite." (Ecclesiastes 1:15).

    18. Banned 20aeman's Avatar
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      08-20-2008 05:39 PM #91
      Yeah, I just bought an eliminator turbine housing off the vortex. I'm restricted to the 53.8mm turbine wheel on the 2860r, 28rs, 2871r....
      28rs and 2871r are too expensive and big, so they are out of the picture. That leaves one of the two 2860rs..
      For any given number that a car *should* put out, I'll be 20ish whp higher because I only run e85. In other words, I have somewhat of a bandaid for inefficient compressor maps.


      Modified by 20aeman at 2:41 PM 8-20-2008

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      08-20-2008 05:59 PM #92
      Well, the restrictive manifold and turbine housing should not increase spool times. If anything, they will help get the turbine moving quicker at lower RPMs. As stated before, however, I think that these will limit your top end. I would definitely go with the GT2860R-5 since you get "RS" like performance. You can always port your existing manifold (or buy a used on off ebay cheap) in the short-term if top end is a concern. Down the road, you have the option of upgrading to a T28 or T31 manifold and turbine housing while keeping your GT2860R-5 CHRA.
      The Bible Teaches That Few are Saved. Why Hell Must Be Eternal. Scientific Evidence for God. "The perverse are hard to be corrected, and the number of fools is infinite." (Ecclesiastes 1:15).

    20. Banned 20aeman's Avatar
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      08-20-2008 06:23 PM #93
      Quote, originally posted by mainstayinc »
      Well, the restrictive manifold and turbine housing should not increase spool times. If anything, they will help get the turbine moving quicker at lower RPMs. As stated before, however, I think that these will limit your top end. I would definitely go with the GT2860R-5 since you get "RS" like performance. You can always port your existing manifold (or buy a used on off ebay cheap) in the short-term if top end is a concern. Down the road, you have the option of upgrading to a T28 or T31 manifold and turbine housing while keeping your GT2860R-5 CHRA.

      When you put it that way, it certainly makes more sense to go with the 5. Cool beans...I'll try that one out the [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

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      08-21-2008 11:13 AM #94
      the one you are looking for is the t3/67 not straight t67 and im pretty sure frank is running the HO model.
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    22. 08-21-2008 11:21 AM #95
      Quote, originally posted by 20aeman »
      28rs and 2871r are too expensive and big, so they are out of the picture. That leaves one of the two 2860rs..

      Dont you mean a gt2560r aka gt28r? The 2860r is the gt28rs

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      08-21-2008 04:20 PM #96
      Quote, originally posted by hyperformancevw »
      the one you are looking for is the t3/67 not straight t67 and im pretty sure frank is running the HO model.

      Thanks for the info. I am having a hard time finding a map for this turbo.


      Modified by mainstayinc at 1:23 PM 8-21-2008
      The Bible Teaches That Few are Saved. Why Hell Must Be Eternal. Scientific Evidence for God. "The perverse are hard to be corrected, and the number of fools is infinite." (Ecclesiastes 1:15).

    24. 08-21-2008 05:31 PM #97
      Dont even humor him, he will never leave you alone. Plus its not like he would even think about running it

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      08-21-2008 05:51 PM #98
      Thanks for the heads up. [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
      The Bible Teaches That Few are Saved. Why Hell Must Be Eternal. Scientific Evidence for God. "The perverse are hard to be corrected, and the number of fools is infinite." (Ecclesiastes 1:15).

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      08-21-2008 06:05 PM #99
      Quote, originally posted by cincyTT »
      Dont you mean a gt2560r aka gt28r? The 2860r is the gt28rs

      There is the 2560r aka 28r, there is the 2860rs aka disco potato, there are the 2860r s, one is the r34 gtr n-1 turbo, the other is a bolt on upgrade for the gtr. I want one of the gtr turbos.

    27. 08-21-2008 07:17 PM #100
      Quote, originally posted by cincyTT »
      Dont even humor him, he will never leave you alone. Plus its not like he would even think about running it

      i want to compare how his calculations with the info he has correlates to frankie's real world performance

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