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    Thread: Seafoam adventures...

    1. Member CiDirkona's Avatar
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      02-22-2009 02:32 AM #1
      I read a few threads last night about seafoaming the GTI, and it just made sense. I've seafoamed my other cars, and it didn't even occur to me that the valves could be that dirty thanks to direct injection.
      Editted to add:
      Stag2-ish. hoped w/m would help some on the build-up, but didn't expect this much after 48k miles...
      Read threads:
      https://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...80170
      https://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4256886
      Today's adventure video(s):
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBt6NcInXa0 Skip to 4:45 for the real fun.
      Today's adventure pics:








      Modified by CiDirkona at 11:35 PM 2-21-2009
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    3. Member Aguilar's Avatar
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      02-22-2009 09:39 AM #2
      That's a lot of dirty smoke. I'll consider doing this every couple of oil changes.
      The car looks great btw.

    4. Member jpimp61's Avatar
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      02-22-2009 09:43 AM #3
      looks like it worked!

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    6. 02-22-2009 10:10 AM #4
      ROFL! Looks like you're fumigating the place. Gd stuff!

    7. 02-22-2009 10:18 AM #5
      post a pick of the sea foam can u used

    8. Member OOOO-A3's Avatar
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      02-22-2009 11:42 AM #6
      Quote, originally posted by Aguilar »
      That's a lot of dirty smoke.

      Quote, originally posted by jpimp61 »
      looks like it worked!


      You don't actually believe that the smoke is related to any possible deposits on the valves, do you? That's just the Seafoam itself. Do the same procedure to a brand new car straight off the lot and you'll see the same thing.
      Seafoam may, in fact, work, but unless you take the head off and look at every valve before and after seafoaming it, you don't (a) know how much, if any, buildup was ont the valves, and (b) how much, if any, Seafoam removed. Until someone does that, this is strictly in "I want to believe" territory.

    9. Member CiDirkona's Avatar
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      02-22-2009 12:06 PM #7
      Quote, originally posted by OOOO-A3 »
      You don't actually believe that the smoke is related to any possible deposits on the valves, do you? That's just the Seafoam itself. Do the same procedure to a brand new car straight off the lot and you'll see the same thing.
      Seafoam may, in fact, work, but unless you take the head off and look at every valve before and after seafoaming it, you don't (a) know how much, if any, buildup was ont the valves, and (b) how much, if any, Seafoam removed. Until someone does that, this is strictly in "I want to believe" territory.

      Yeah, but it's also better safe than sorry. Deposits aren't going away if you DON'T do anything either. When I revved it (about 4:45 in the video) you can see some darker brown clouds coming out too -- so something besides just the seafoam is coming out.
      Seafoam:
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    10. Member OOOO-A3's Avatar
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      02-22-2009 12:22 PM #8
      Quote, originally posted by CiDirkona »
      Yeah, but it's also better safe than sorry. Deposits aren't going away if you DON'T do anything either.
      Sacrificing chickens would be "doing something" too, and at least that's biodegradable.
      Quote, originally posted by CiDirkona »
      you can see some darker brown clouds coming out too -- so something besides just the seafoam is coming out.
      Holy ****! You can do spectroscopy with your naked eyes!

      The deposits are carbon. You can't dissolve carbon. If the carbon has other elements with it, you may be able to break those bonds, but given the heat involved here most other substances would have burned off leaving the carbon deposits behind. Theoretically, maybe, the Seafoam could attack the boundary between the carbon and the metal of the valves, but if it can't penetrate the carbon to get to that boundary, it's a moot point.

    11. 02-22-2009 12:44 PM #9
      0000-A3, you're acting a bit immature... you stated in your post,
      "You don't actually believe that the smoke is related to any possible deposits on the valves, do you? That's just the Seafoam itself"
      Seems you can do Spectroscopy with your naked eyes as well douche. How do you know every particle is just the Seafoam????

    12. 02-22-2009 01:12 PM #10
      [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] they got all kinds of seafoam stuff at the store If I try it, I don't want to suck the wrong **** into my motor [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

    13. 02-22-2009 01:18 PM #11
      how hard is it to pull the valve cover? sure someone will test this method no? Before you say IT, cuz I know your were thinking it I'm just getting my car back together.


      Modified by fahrenheit 525 at 1:20 PM 2-22-2009

    14. 02-22-2009 01:26 PM #12
      Quote, originally posted by fahrenheit 525 »
      how hard is it to pull the valve cover? sure someone will test this method no? Before you say IT, cuz I know your were thinking it I'm just getting my car back together.

      Modified by fahrenheit 525 at 1:20 PM 2-22-2009

      You mean intake manifold . . .
      And it requires disconnecting quite a bit.
      Dave

    15. Member OOOO-A3's Avatar
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      02-22-2009 01:59 PM #13
      Quote, originally posted by HoldDaMayo »
      you're acting a bit immature

      Quote, originally posted by HoldDaMayo »
      douche.

      Whatever.

    16. 02-22-2009 02:14 PM #14
      Quote, originally posted by fahrenheit 525 »
      how hard is it to pull the valve cover? sure someone will test this method no? Before you say IT, cuz I know your were thinking it I'm just getting my car back together.

      Modified by fahrenheit 525 at 1:20 PM 2-22-2009

      Unless u plan on staring at cam lobes u wanna remove the intake. Or use a boroscope

    17. 02-22-2009 02:18 PM #15
      a guy at work just bought a strap on(pun intended) brand video monitor boroscope. I'll see about doing some before and after with mine.
      I'll be using a moc or bg brand setup with a professional mister applicator so my results will be scewed

    18. 02-22-2009 03:30 PM #16
      Quote, originally posted by OOOO-A3 »
      Whatever.

      I'm a skeptic, but all this drama has gotten me curious. Why doesn't someone borescope the intake tract before and after. That would be a worthy observation of Seafoam's effectiveness. (Not clouds out of exhaust pipes.) I'm willing to try a carbon treatment during my next oil and plug change. I will try to get my borescope to the intake ports and valves. It looks like it will fit in the IAT port. Wait, how would I get past the tumblers? FAIL.
      My understanding of the issues:
      The intake valves of direct injection motors are prone to carbon because they never have fuel washing over them. Secondly, rule of thumb for chemical reactions is they are twice as effective for ever 10deg increase. These valves don't encounter heated gases, meaning cleaners/steam will not be as effective. With the FSI, add an oil leaking PCV's into the mix and you have a nasty crusty carbon on your intake valves.

      Side Note: Few rev's with water meth running.

      Probably just loose carbon bits from the exhaust. All the jazz aside, my cars running fine and I'm lovin it. Thanks for sharing, Colin.


      Modified by rightcoastbiased at 12:59 PM 2-22-2009

    19. Member dmorrow's Avatar
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      02-22-2009 08:03 PM #17
      Quote, originally posted by OOOO-A3 »
      Sacrificing chickens would be "doing something" too, and at least that's biodegradable.
      Holy ****! You can do spectroscopy with your naked eyes!

      The deposits are carbon. You can't dissolve carbon. If the carbon has other elements with it, you may be able to break those bonds, but given the heat involved here most other substances would have burned off leaving the carbon deposits behind. Theoretically, maybe, the Seafoam could attack the boundary between the carbon and the metal of the valves, but if it can't penetrate the carbon to get to that boundary, it's a moot point.

      I agree. Everyone is jumping on the bandwagon but I haven't seen any proof it does anything. Have I missed something?
      If you put automatic transmission fluid in the gas it will burn a tone of smoke, doesn't meen a whole lot though.

    20. 02-23-2009 07:23 AM #18
      You seafoamed your car in the garage? I mean I know that the garage door was open & all, but that looks to be some really toxic smelling smoke. Some of that must have made its way into your home, no?
      Sold the VAG COM

    21. Member bificus99's Avatar
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      02-23-2009 10:43 AM #19
      I think I heard some coughing too in the video...

    22. 02-23-2009 02:07 PM #20
      Quote, originally posted by dmorrow »
      I agree. Everyone is jumping on the bandwagon but I haven't seen any proof it does anything. Have I missed something?
      If you put automatic transmission fluid in the gas it will burn a tone of smoke, doesn't meen a whole lot though.

      We have plenty of evidence that deposits on intake vales etc. is a real issue: see photos of huge deposits at only 22k, evidence of deposits at only 800 miles, photos of TONS of gunk catch in catch cans, and countless examples of 2.0 FSI burning lots of oil (where do you think that oil is going? one guess).
      So it is a known problem and is doing nothing about it smart? I don't think so. Some people believe in performing preventative maintenance when there is a known problem.

      Tons of people have cleaned their intakes, valves, fuel injectors via running solvents through the intakes for years. It is proven to work on lots of cars over many years. I myself have used the air intake cleaners on around 75 cars with great results. It would be great to have before and after photos specifically of the 2.0 FSI, but give me a break, people know this works on tons of cars for many years, would it suddenly not work on the 2.0 FSI?
      Preventative options to reduce pcv-derived deposits include:
      1. Reduce pcv-derived contaminants via a catch can
      2. Eliminate pcv return through atmospheric or vacuum assisted catch-can type system
      3. Clean valves routinely with solvents (such as at every oil change)
      4. Run less volatile and more shear stable oil and/or an oil with good cleaning properties.
      5. Use high quality fuel
      6. Run a meth/water system
      I encourage you to use any or as many of the options that you wish. I think you are foolish if you do nothing or wait until there is some sort of conclusive proof that something meets your standards. Don't get hung up on the "tailpipe smoke=clean" argument. That is not important. Doing whatever you can to prevent and reduce the deposits is what is important. But hey it's your car and you can do nothing if you wish.


      Modified by saaber2 at 11:14 AM 2-23-2009

    23. Member CiDirkona's Avatar
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      02-23-2009 03:18 PM #21
      Quote, originally posted by saaber2 »
      We have plenty of evidence that deposits on intake vales etc. is a real issue: see photos of huge deposits at only 22k, evidence of deposits at only 800 miles, photos of TONS of gunk catch in catch cans, and countless examples of 2.0 FSI burning lots of oil (where do you think that oil is going? one guess).
      So it is a known problem and is doing nothing about it smart? I don't think so. Some people believe in performing preventative maintenance when there is a known problem.

      Well said! Thanks, man. [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
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    24. Member bificus99's Avatar
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      02-23-2009 04:49 PM #22
      I wish I had access to a BG44k system. That stuff works better than seafoam when you have really bad buildup. I used seafoam a few times with my previous car, wasnt too happy then I had the dealer run BG 44 and it ran smoother and idled better. I will have to try a can of BG 44 and see if I can get it to work like this method.

    25. 02-23-2009 05:42 PM #23
      Quote, originally posted by bificus99 »
      I wish I had access to a BG44k system. That stuff works better than seafoam when you have really bad buildup. I used seafoam a few times with my previous car, wasnt too happy then I had the dealer run BG 44 and it ran smoother and idled better. I will have to try a can of BG 44 and see if I can get it to work like this method.

      Looks like good stuff. Plus they have the misting tool similar to what Rabidrabbit was talking about:
      http://www.bgprod.com/products/fuelair.html
      http://www.bgprod.com/products/fuelair2.html
      I wonder if you have to be a repair shop to buy it directly?



      Modified by saaber2 at 2:47 PM 2-23-2009

    26. Member Kid Hobo's Avatar
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      02-23-2009 05:48 PM #24
      I like what I see here.

      Actually, kinda reminds me of this kind of smoke:




      Adjusting my lifestyle with the grace and wisdom of a potato.

    27. Member dmorrow's Avatar
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      02-23-2009 06:24 PM #25
      Quote, originally posted by saaber2 »
      We have plenty of evidence that deposits on intake vales etc. is a real issue: see photos of huge deposits at only 22k, evidence of deposits at only 800 miles, photos of TONS of gunk catch in catch cans, and countless examples of 2.0 FSI burning lots of oil (where do you think that oil is going? one guess).
      Modified by saaber2 at 11:14 AM 2-23-2009

      You may be right but at this time the evidence is limited and the proof that Seafoam is the cure on our engine is also very limited (I think nonexistent). Out of the thousands of 2.0T built I have only seen a small percentage of people that have had the issue big enough to get work done. You have given a couple of examples of problems. There would have to be 100’s to be of statistical significance. We don't have proof that the average person will have intake valve carbon issues. Yes there have been a few people that have had heavy carbon issues and this is a possible solution but at the same time I don't know if a blanket "everyone should do this" is right at this time. Do we even know if the person with the 22k was changing their oil or if they used synthetic? There also isn't long term information on what the Seafoam will do if you are doing the procedure every oil change. I hope with time we find out if it is necessary or not and I hope there is enough people doing it that we find out if there are issues with it.
      I have 80 k miles on my car, it burns almost no oil (maybe a half quart every 3000 miles, probably less) and if I had done this at every oil change, it is possible I would have more issues than I have now. I am just looking for proof that it works, that it is needed, and that it won’t cause other issues (o2, cat, etc). If I run my car to 110K I will probably be better off doing nothing.

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