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    Thread: Redline Oil

    1. 06-13-2009 12:12 PM #1
      I am thinking of putting Redline oil into my GLI. I had good luck with this oil on my last GLX.
      From their website:
      Our 5W40 engine oil provides for quicker lubrication and easier start-up. Reduces turbo lag and provides more power and economy in a properly functioning engine, while providing 25% thicker oil films than a petroleum 5W40 or 10W40. Recommended for many late-model European vehicles and as a factory fill replacement in many newer VW, Porsche, and Mercedes Benz applications.
      That sounds good to me. Any suggestions or thoughts?
      I think I have decided to go back to the Castrol Syntec that my dealer uses since I am about to hit 5,000 miles and have care-free maintenance. I don't necessarily think one is better than the other anymore and I think I would rather have the piece of mind that my warranty won't be voided.


      Modified by YellowRubi at 6:49 PM 9-19-2009

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    3. 06-13-2009 01:43 PM #2
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      Last edited by saaber2; 01-14-2011 at 11:04 AM.

    4. 06-13-2009 02:22 PM #3
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    6. 06-13-2009 02:27 PM #4
      I think I will be doing this soon. I have only 650 miles on the GLI, but the car showed it was due to be changed in February. Is this ok to change or do I need to wait a certain amount of time??

    7. 06-13-2009 02:50 PM #5
      You can change it whenever you want IMO. I don't know what time or oil change interval the February due date was from (e.g. one year, 3000 miles, or whatever).
      Redline is a pretty agressive cleaner and the first and second changes it will likely free up oxidized metals and deposits. Most people wait until the 3rd oil change to look at UOAs on redline because by then most of the cleaning has taken place.
      I suggest the 10W40 for maximum resistance to shear and use in summer months. The 5w40 is actually a bit thicker than 10w40 at 100 degrees C. The 10w30 is most likely a "straight 30 weight" oil that because of the POE base stocks doesn't need viscosity improvers and qualifies as a 10W30. I believe Amsoil ACD is similar in this regard (straight 30 weight synthetic that qualifies as a 10W30). So it should give excellent shear resistance (viscosity improvers are usually what shear first) and because it is thinner, it may give more power and better mpg. That is why I want to try it on my next oil change. Note that even though it is thinner it still has better high temperature high shear performance than most of the 502 5W40 oils. f.e. redline 10w30 HTHS = 3.8 cP while M1 0w40 = 3.7 cP


      Modified by saaber2 at 11:52 AM 6-13-2009

    8. 06-13-2009 03:03 PM #6
      Quote, originally posted by saaber2 »
      You can change it whenever you want IMO. I don't know what time or oil change interval the February due date was from (e.g. one year, 3000 miles, or whatever).
      Redline is a pretty agressive cleaner and the first and second changes it will likely free up oxidized metals and deposits. Most people wait until the 3rd oil change to look at UOAs on redline because by then most of the cleaning has taken place.
      I suggest the 10W40 for maximum resistance to shear and use in summer months. The 5w40 is actually a bit thicker than 10w40 at 100 degrees C. The 10w30 is most likely a "straight 30 weight" oil that because of the POE base stocks doesn't need viscosity improvers and qualifies as a 10W30. I believe Amsoil ACD is similar in this regard (straight 30 weight synthetic that qualifies as a 10W30). So it should give excellent shear resistance (viscosity improvers are usually what shear first) and because it is thinner, it may give more power and better mpg. That is why I want to try it on my next oil change. Note that even though it is thinner it still has better high temperature high shear performance than most of the 502 5W40 oils. f.e. redline 10w30 HTHS = 3.8 cP while M1 0w40 = 3.7 cP

      Modified by saaber2 at 11:52 AM 6-13-2009

      So, I should use 10W40 instead of 5W40?

    9. 06-13-2009 03:31 PM #7
      I see you are in Dallas and I assume it is a little warm there in the summer ha ha. I would go with the 10W40 as it should be even more shear stable and would give max. thermal protection. Plus 10w40 still has Moly. That is one reason my next oil change will be either 10w30 or 10w40, to get the moly. I didn't talk about moly above but here are a couple articles to read up on it if you want:
      http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...id=62
      http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/moly.html also click on the "more pictures and details" link on the bottom. This article refers to the old solid form of Moly I believe but now Mobil, redline, shaeffers etc. use the soluble form of moly. So the article is not completely accurate but is a good starting point.
      I always ran the high moly redline oils in the saab turbos I mentioned before. It is a friction modifier and may give one more "last line of defense" to wear in extreme conditions. Redline only recently dropped moly from their 5w40 and 15w40 oils to help meet diesel cj-4 requirements.



      Modified by saaber2 at 12:35 PM 6-13-2009

    10. 06-15-2009 01:54 AM #8
      Quote, originally posted by saaber2 »
      I have been running redline 5W40 since 5k miles in my 08 GTI and I noticed an immediate improvement in turbo spool up. Others have noticed this improvement on other turbo cars as well.

      I have heard I should wait until 5K to change my oil for the first time. I noticed you waited until 5K to put Redline in. Any specific reasons for that?

    11. 06-15-2009 12:17 PM #9
      Although RL is a high quality product, its still worth noting that none of their products are VW 502 approved (or any other VW spec). saaber2 makes a compelling argument (and rightly so) for its use, however while still under factory warranty you need to be aware that its use could jeopardize future warranty claims.

    12. Member corradokidg60's Avatar
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      06-15-2009 12:31 PM #10
      Quote, originally posted by bcze1 »
      Although RL is a high quality product, its still worth noting that none of their products are VW 502 approved (or any other VW spec). saaber2 makes a compelling argument (and rightly so) for its use, however while still under factory warranty you need to be aware that its use could jeopardize future warranty claims.

      This.... and neither are any of AMS' products, or Royal Purple's.

    13. 06-15-2009 12:51 PM #11
      Quote, originally posted by YellowRubi »
      I have heard I should wait until 5K to change my oil for the first time. I noticed you waited until 5K to put Redline in. Any specific reasons for that?

      I ran the factory fill until 5k because there was not enough compelling evidence to change it out earlier than that and some of the sources I talked to said "do what the manufacturer suggests"
      Now that I have learned more, I think the strict adherence to "doing what the manufacturer suggests" is a mistake. If you look at the recently posted pictures of igen3's valves at 100k miles for example, they look unbelievably horrible and he ran mobil1 0w40 every 10k according to the manual.

      I also believe that not doing pro-active maintenance to eliminate or reduce these valve deposits from the pcv system would be a mistake, and VW does not suggest anything bout doing this proactive valve deposit maintenance.
      The 40+ UOA database shows that no oil seems to be able to go over 5k in this engine. Therefore, I think the manufacturer really missed the mark with that 10k oil change interval.
      Having said that however, Redline suggests not putting their oil in prior to 3k miles. The reason as I understand it is it may be so effective at reducing wear that it does not allow enough wear for break in.
      Here is a good discussion on the difference of factory fill oil at 1100 miles and 5000 miles in the 2.0 FSI:
      https://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4147914


      Modified by saaber2 at 10:59 AM 6-15-2009

    14. 06-15-2009 12:57 PM #12
      Quote, originally posted by bcze1 »
      Although RL is a high quality product, its still worth noting that none of their products are VW 502 approved (or any other VW spec). saaber2 makes a compelling argument (and rightly so) for its use, however while still under factory warranty you need to be aware that its use could jeopardize future warranty claims.

      This is a very good point. However such a warranty claim would have to be due to a failure of the oil which is not going to happen with a good oil, and indeed the UOA results show Biosyn, Redline, etc. as some of the top performers in this engine. Also their polar ester base and higher additive pack may well reduce secondary effects such as valve deposit buildup, wear on cam follower etc. which means that failure of other components due to using a non-502 could be much less likely compared to using a 502 oil. Note that Biosyn 5W40 was designed specifically to reduce fuel dilution effects and combat valve deposits in the Audi FSI engine.
      Also anyone who has done any modifications, such as an intake, software, downpipe, catch-can, etc. would also be subject to the exact same "could jeopardize future warranty claims" stipulation. Also anyone who raced their car, etc. would be subject to that.
      So the choice of whether to live in the narrow box that could not possibly jeopardize warranty claims (no mods, no racing, no catch can or pcv bypass, etc.) or to do what they think is best for their car is up to the owner. But you are right in pointing that out because everyone should be aware that any mods, etc. could jeapordize their warranty.


      Modified by saaber2 at 10:08 AM 6-15-2009

    15. 06-15-2009 01:49 PM #13
      Quote, originally posted by saaber2 »
      However such a warranty claim would have to be due to a failure of the oil which is not going to happen with a good oil

      That's not necessarily true. We both know that outright oil failures are rare indeed. However VW could blame most any engine failure on your lack of proper maintenance. Not using an approved oil could be treated the same as a 20k OCI by VW with any failure blamed immediately on XXXX oil. It would be on you, the owner, to prove otherwise at that point.
      Quote, originally posted by saaber2 »
      So the choice of whether to live in the narrow box that could not possibly jeopardize warranty claims (no mods, no racing, no catch can or pcv bypass, etc.) or to do what they think is best for their car is up to the owner. But you are right in pointing that out because everyone should be aware that any mods, etc. could jeopardize their warranty.

      Agreed, many of us do all sorts of things that jeopardize our warranty in one way or another. I just believe that caveat needs to be mentioned when recommending a non approved oil. Then the owner can make an educated decision that's right for them. [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

    16. Member corradokidg60's Avatar
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      06-15-2009 02:24 PM #14
      Quote, originally posted by saaber2 »
      The 40+ UOA database shows that no oil seems to be able to go over 5k in this engine. Therefore, I think the manufacturer really missed the mark with that 10k oil change interval.

      What specifically are the oils not standing up to for even 5k miles?
      Here's my Blackstone oil analysis for 40k miles worth of changes (4) - the last oil change shows metals in it because I later found out I had the dreaded HPFP/intake cam/cam follower wear issue.

      I do agree about the PCV and VW needing a catch can of some sort that will prevent oil from coming into the intake.


      Modified by corradokidg60 at 11:25 AM 6-15-2009

    17. 06-15-2009 02:59 PM #15
      Quote, originally posted by corradokidg60 »
      This.... and neither are any of AMS' products, or Royal Purple's.

      Looks like all the good ones are not VW approved.
      I'm sure I will still go with Redline though.

    18. 06-15-2009 03:17 PM #16
      Quote, originally posted by corradokidg60 »
      What specifically are the oils not standing up to for even 5k miles?
      Here's my Blackstone oil analysis for 40k miles worth of changes (4) - the last oil change shows metals in it because I later found out I had the dreaded HPFP/intake cam/cam follower wear issue.

      Looking at all UOAs in the database, oils sheared pretty bad in general and for most flashpoint is quite low. Only 4 UOAs total stayed within grade out of about 40 UOAs.
      Fuel dilution is evident in your UOAs as the oil has sheared out of grade in all samples and all samples show manganese which is likely evidence of fuel dilution. Also the 9k and 30k samples have a depressed flashpoint although not as bad as many of the UOAs in the database where we see as low as 300 degrees and many around 335-350 degrees. As you may know, Blackstone doesn't measure fuel directly but calculates it based on flashpoint depression and they only show fuel in the final sample.
      If we assume that the elevated lead and iron numbers that occurred after 9k miles are due only to a failing cam follower, your results don't look that bad compared to the total of UOAs in the database. But of course a shorter OCI would likely produce less shear and higher flashpoint, and perhaps lower metals but it's impossible to tell anything with the metals with the cam follower wear. Having TAN would be helpful also. The TBN looks really good.
      Perhaps an oil with stronger anti-wear additives would have protected your cam follower better. It's hard to say definitively because this cam follower is a poor design but typically 1200 ppm zinc is the recommended minimum level for "flat tappet" engines (the fuel pump follower which wore out is a flat tappet).
      Have you had a chance to get a UOA after the cam follower was replaced? It would be great to see the lead and iron come back down. It is interesting that your cam follower showed up in the UOA as another poster (can't recall who off the top of my head) reported that his UOAs showed no indication of the follower failure. Perhaps your eroded away more gradually and his broke suddenly? Who knows, but it is interesting.

    19. 06-15-2009 04:04 PM #17
      You guys know too much about oil!! I just wanted to know if Redline was a good oil.

    20. Member corradokidg60's Avatar
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      06-15-2009 08:54 PM #18
      Quote, originally posted by YellowRubi »
      You guys know too much about oil!! I just wanted to know if Redline was a good oil.

      Easy version:
      Yes it is, no it's not approved. Does it matter? If your powertrain warranty matters to you, use an approved oil, if not use RedLine.

    21. 06-15-2009 09:23 PM #19
      Same diff. as running your APR stage 1. Bcze said it the best IMO, that the car owner should be aware that his modifications, non 502 approved oil etc. may impact the warranty.

    22. 06-15-2009 09:24 PM #20
      Quote, originally posted by bcze1 »
      Agreed, many of us do all sorts of things that jeopardize our warranty in one way or another. I just believe that caveat needs to be mentioned when recommending a non approved oil. Then the owner can make an educated decision that's right for them. [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

      I totally agree.

    23. 06-15-2009 11:51 PM #21
      I'm not sure how they would be able to tell what type of oil I used??

    24. Member corradokidg60's Avatar
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      06-16-2009 01:17 AM #22
      Quote, originally posted by YellowRubi »
      I'm not sure how they would be able to tell what type of oil I used??

      Proof of oil purchase (receipts of work done or of oil and filters), I guess they could be nazis about it and do an oil analysis.

    25. 06-16-2009 01:32 AM #23
      Do all car manufacturers have a list of oils that are approved? I don't think I have ever heard much about that kind of thing. After getting screwed by Chrysler on warranty work, I don't want the same to happen with VW over oil.

    26. Member corradokidg60's Avatar
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      06-16-2009 09:45 AM #24
      I think most makers have at least one engine with a specific oil needs....
      The complete 502, 505.01, and 504/507 list world-wide:
      http://www.audiusa.com/etc/med...e.pdf

    27. 06-16-2009 11:38 AM #25
      Quote, originally posted by YellowRubi »
      Do all car manufacturers have a list of oils that are approved? I don't think I have ever heard much about that kind of thing. After getting screwed by Chrysler on warranty work, I don't want the same to happen with VW over oil.

      All the German manufacturers have their own specs. US & Japanese generally use API spec unless its high performance car, like Corvette ZR-1 or Nissan GT-R.
      And yes, all they have to do is ask for your maintenance records if for some reason they're in question. No need to test a thing. If you can't prove you poured in an approved oil at the recommended intervals (or shorter) things could get ugly. However, it should be noted that the odds of a failure happening that makes a dealer or VW look into your maintenance records is pretty small. But it does exist.

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