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    Thread: Stand alone engine management debate

    1. Member
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      87 vw golf gti 16v
      08-29-2002 09:53 PM #1
      Whats a good stand alone engine management system to use on a turbo 16v?

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    3. Member SSj4G60's Avatar
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      08-29-2002 10:19 PM #2
      which ever people you know how to tune use , ill probably go haltech eventually b/c i know a couple of people that are using it and its not much more than SDS but you need a laptop

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      08-29-2002 10:22 PM #3
      Exactly, run what you feel comfortable tuning. And if there are local peeps running EFI's that are willing to help, maybe use the system they're running. if from scratch, I love my SDS.
      hth,

      '83 GTI 2L Dell 40's (crashed)
      '86 Cabby ABA/SDS - Bitch Basket
      '07 Tundra -DD - more front travel than a Raptor

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    6. Member CorradoCody's Avatar
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      08-29-2002 11:44 PM #4
      I've got DTA and a lap top, I haven't used SDS to give an informed opinion. I like the DTA system because of the adjustablilty. You can check it out at http://www.dtafast.co.uk
      CC

    7. Banned nycvr6's Avatar
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      08-30-2002 12:22 AM #5
      DTA, Autronic, Tec, Motec, are all top notch. SDS works, but why settle for a lower end system? Goto DTA's site and look at the P8pro systems capabilities. Download the free software and take a look. It makes SDS look like kiddie stuff.

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      08-30-2002 04:57 AM #6
      CHECK OUT THIS SITE AND MY RABBIT OF COURSE, SEE WHAT AN SDS SYSTEM CAN DO. SIMPLE IS THE KEY WORD, http://www.ptrsds.com.

    9. Member J. Daniel's Avatar
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      08-30-2002 07:22 AM #7
      quote:
      It makes SDS look like kiddie stuff.
      Oh my GOD!!! Do you know the abuse you're going to take for this??
      But, I'm with you, man!
      Like the SDS site says, it's for racing. And there you only care about full throttle performance and the SDS is just fine for this.
      Where the H... is Speed these days? Shouldn't he be checking in to tell us we're full of it?


      [Modified by J. Daniel, 7:24 AM 8-30-2002]

    10. 08-30-2002 08:37 AM #8
      i like your setup nice and clean!!! that is a pretty sweet torque curve..I see the 17th was when you ran your 11th...was this the first time out. anyway congratulations. personally i would lose the M&T's far better times to be had with some M&H's or hoosiers....personal opinion though

    11. Member vdubturbo's Avatar
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      08-30-2002 12:12 PM #9
      Go with what you know. Or, if you know none of them, decide what features you're willing to pay for. TEC has data acq, wich I like.
      BTW, I should have an inventory of used TEC-IIs for sale in the near future. I'll post when I have more info.
      997.1 C2S Aero <> F-150 FX4 <> MKII GTI 16vT <> '15 GROM <> E36 M3 Track Car <> Gen5 NASCAR

    12. 09-03-2002 12:24 AM #10
      SNS should have a pms system for the digi-1 available in the long term future. This will allow all vw parts, along with dynamic programmability and datalogging through a cheap 486 laptop (dos based). This system will allow you to maintain complete legality as it will not require any modifications that might set off a red light with the hard heads (ie California). We hope to see the completion of this project in 6-9 months. After such we'll move to later obd-I models and obd-II models, then lastly motronic 7.0,7.5 pms system.
      For some people the ability to keep factory parts in place is important, especially when a warranty is involved. Our primary focus with OBD-II technology will be to be compliant with emissions standards. I think this will be a big task, but will pay off in the future. Something no other standalone systems will provide. In georgia, they just plug in the OBD-II port and let the readiness codes set, and check for CEL's. The ecu/pms could be programmed to simulate the correct response. This will be a patented and copyrighted feature of SNS.
      We're growing, slowly, as the time and money permits. Our years of experience and dedication to low prices, and top quality work will bleed into the future model market cars soon. Why replace a perfectly good ecu with something else? Makes no sense to me as a programmer when you can simply reprogram the unit to do what you want.
      I wouldn't throw out a pentium-200 and replace it with a p4-1800 if the job could get done with that old pentium-200 now why would anyone else do that same? A computer is computer, and there are many ways to program them to do whatever you want. The skies the limit. Alas being a programmer at heart, and not a mechanic, we will work with companies that truly are interested in developing these products at an accelerated rate, but the bottom line is SNS is a night job, weekend job, and hobby.
      My idea of fun is not working on the cars, thats for damn sure.
      cheers. Enjoy what works best for you, but look forward to true PMS systems in the future. I'm sure we're not the only ones out there bustin' out the the CR167/80x66 disassemblers. Competition is good and healthy, and in the end it just brings more options to the consumer at a better price.

    13. 09-03-2002 12:37 AM #11
      quote:
      In georgia, they just plug in the OBD-II port and let the readiness codes set, and check for CEL's. The ecu/pms could be programmed to simulate the correct response. This will be a patented and copyrighted feature of SNS.

      You're kidding right? You're going to file for a patent on an electronic unit that sends false OBD2 emissions data to the scan tools of State regulated SMOG check stations? You might want to think about that one for a moment. Emissions system tampering and falsification carries some hefty fines and imprisonment in some cases.

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      09-03-2002 02:54 AM #12
      Ya, SDS is really crap. That's why it's easy to tune, and you don't need a laptop. All the systems do the same thing, just with more bells and whistles. SDS runs great on my Rabbit when I daily drove the thing. Just as any of the above mentioned systems will when tuned properly. Just cause SDS doesn't need a laptop, people think it's a joke, I find that funny. Sure my next EFI might be a Holly 950, only cause I'd like datalogging next time around.
      later,

      '83 GTI 2L Dell 40's (crashed)
      '86 Cabby ABA/SDS - Bitch Basket
      '07 Tundra -DD - more front travel than a Raptor

      West Coast President - Dubsquad Conglomerate International

    15. 09-03-2002 03:05 AM #13
      im getting the SDS system because of ease of tuning...and installation and i know alot of people who have it. it all basically depends on what kind of features u are looking for [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

    16. 09-03-2002 10:37 AM #14
      i've got DTA on my 16v turbo cabriolet and it was pretty easy to tune just 1/2 hour to get it runnin pretty good and then another hour at the dyno and it runs mint (261whp @ 15psi). the only draw back would be the waiting till it warms up as the cold start map is so basic. Compared to other systems for the price id say dta is the best. I know of 5 other guys running turbo and n/a setups using this on vdubs and they are all happy. I know one guy with Haltech on his Talon and he says it sucks. Any way the fastest import in canada runs DTA ( the formula honda altech civic almost 800hp and 9.63 in the quarter) and if its goood enough for them its good enough for me. But thats just my opinion

    17. Member vdubturbo's Avatar
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      09-03-2002 10:47 AM #15
      quote:
      run what you feel comfortable tuning. And if there are local peeps running EFI's that are willing to help, maybe use the system they're running
      This is clearly the best advice out there. [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
      quote:
      All the systems do the same thing, just with more bells and whistles.
      Not true, however. Those bells and whistles (which, yes, you do pay for) can add levels of tunability not possible on cheaper units. And yes, those bells and whistles can mean the difference between 250 and 300 HP OR passing emissions with a track ready car.
      I speak from experience. You get what you pay for. The SDS is a tremendous buy for the price. But you will not get all the features of a TEC-II or MOTEC, and depending on your application, you may very well need them.
      But, that's just my take.
      997.1 C2S Aero <> F-150 FX4 <> MKII GTI 16vT <> '15 GROM <> E36 M3 Track Car <> Gen5 NASCAR

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      09-03-2002 12:03 PM #16
      quote:
      Any way the fastest import in canada runs DTA ( the formula honda altech civic almost 800hp and 9.63 in the quarter) and if its goood enough for them its good enough for me.
      What's the owners name? Is it Mike P?

    19. Member
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      87 vw golf gti 16v
      09-03-2002 01:29 PM #17
      how long did it take u to install DTA? i checked the site and i'm not sure of the 90 mins installation. I saw a kit for the 16v motor for $1400 and it included cutoms maps to get it running. Anyone in US running DTA and where can it be dyno tuned in Maryland or the near by states?
      Holley i looking to and I can use the distributor and don't have to install a crank sensor. but then again who knows how to dyno tune it?
      SDS i know NGP installs and is a dealer and has a dyno. i'm sure they know how to tune SDS but what about the other systems and how to tune them?

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      09-03-2002 02:01 PM #18
      JRC motorsports down in North Carolina had dyno tuned a 16v motor to 349whp using a Holley Commander 950 unit, maybe u should give them a call.
      Paul

    21. Member SSj4G60's Avatar
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      09-03-2002 05:55 PM #19
      yea Rodney (think thats his name) is a good guy , hooked my up good w/ my pistons , go through him agian when i start putting together my 16v

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      09-03-2002 08:02 PM #20
      yeah, Rodney and Dave.

    23. Member
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      87 vw golf gti 16v
      09-03-2002 09:01 PM #21
      ok. 16v with 10:1 compression what system do u guys recommend? i remember a guy on here went 15 psi on stock commpression but i don't remember what system. u guys think DTA, holley, or SDS can do it?

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      09-03-2002 10:52 PM #22
      quote:
      which ever people you know how to tune use , ill probably go haltech eventually b/c i know a couple of people that are using it and its not much more than SDS but you need a laptop
      i have a lap top and i hav installed Haltechs before so...
      its Haltech obvoiusly, i dont know if i would go Tech3, i know i could handle it but i dont want to have to do any crank trigger stuff, if i go haltech i just tap into the ignition. Distributers are a little harder for teh haltech, you have to know what every wire does for the coil, igniter, and dist.
      Haltech is my choice, its very easy!!
      if you can wire and read a book, its like eatin pie

    25. 09-03-2002 10:55 PM #23
      I am strongly considering the TEC3 set-up, but am open for suggestions.
      I like the fact that it can use more inputs and outputs for a more precise state of tuning, as well as the data acquisition and laptop tuneability.
      Also, the software looks fairly easy to work with.

    26. Member vdubturbo's Avatar
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      09-03-2002 11:18 PM #24
      quote:
      Also, the software looks fairly easy to work with.
      Yes, the WinTEC software is lightyears ahead of their old stuff. Not bad at all. [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] In fact, I'd go as far as recommending it!
      997.1 C2S Aero <> F-150 FX4 <> MKII GTI 16vT <> '15 GROM <> E36 M3 Track Car <> Gen5 NASCAR

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      09-04-2002 12:55 AM #25
      what about this http://www.perfectpower.com/

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