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    Thread: XDS Question

    1. Member toasters's Avatar
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      05-13-2011 04:51 AM #1
      What equipment is involved in the XDS system?

      Found the option to "activate" it in the ABS module of my Golf TDI. I activated it and have no codes. Just wondering.....is it purely software?

      How can I tell if its working?


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    3. Senior Member feels_road's Avatar
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      05-13-2011 07:50 AM #2
      I thought XDS uses special "height" sensors that can tell how much "unloaded" a particular front wheel is - i.e., the fact that it has little dynamic and static pressure onto the road surface (compared to the other wheel), and as such, is unable to provide much forward thrust and may soon consume whatever transmitted power via spinning out (and thus leave the other wheel powerless because of the open diff's equal torque but much lower rotational speed of that wheel).

    4. Member toasters's Avatar
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      05-13-2011 03:31 PM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by feels_road View Post
      I thought XDS uses special "height" sensors that can tell how much "unloaded" a particular front wheel is - i.e., the fact that it has little dynamic and static pressure onto the road surface (compared to the other wheel), and as such, is unable to provide much forward thrust and may soon consume whatever transmitted power via spinning out (and thus leave the other wheel powerless because of the open diff's equal torque but much lower rotational speed of that wheel).
      Interesting...I have sensors for the bi-xenon headlights but I'm not sure if there's additional sensors for this system.

      I activated it, and have no codes (no "No response from sensor" or anything) showing up anywhere. It would be nice if there were a little more info about this system. Like, what is all involved. Is it completely controlled by the ABS module? Etc.

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      05-13-2011 03:42 PM #4
      To my knowledge the XDS sys is linked to the ABS and traction control system and takes into account a bunch of different variables to maintain optimal traction. The TDI already comes with EDL or Electronic Differential Lock so what are you trying to accomplish ?
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    6. Member toasters's Avatar
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      05-13-2011 03:46 PM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by XmansRabbit View Post
      To my knowledge the XDS sys is linked to the ABS and traction control system and takes into account a bunch of different variables to maintain optimal traction. The TDI already comes with EDL or Electronic Differential Lock so what are you trying to accomplish ?
      Good question...I don't know.

      I hear GTI owners raving about "XDS" and how it solves understeer.

      I don't know what the difference between XDS and EDL is. Does the GTI have EDL? I guess I'm just trying to activate any features that might be available on my car but are currently deactivated.

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      05-13-2011 04:17 PM #6
      Yes and no our"XDS" is nothing more than fancy traction control its not a real LSD it uses the brakes to stop wheel spin by modulating the caliper of whatever wheel is spinning, same for the EDL in the base Golf and TDI. Neither of these systems will cure under steer and anyone who says it cures all under steer from our cars doesn't know what they are talking bout. It does however go along way in helping dial it out and make the car more neutral. Again EDL XDS and the like are already activated from the factory due to them being integrated into the TCS or the cars nothing for you to tweak in VCDS.
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    8. Member RacingManiac's Avatar
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      05-13-2011 04:44 PM #7
      Its not just stopping the inside wheel from spinning, its through the virtue of how an open diff works(power goes to the wheel with least resistance, ie less grip), by braking that spinning wheel the power will be shuffled to the wheel with grip. It doesn't "cut power" like traction control does(assuming if your ESP is off, or as off as our ESP can be). As mechanical LSD essentially does the same thing, with potentially more effective result and does not induce issue with brake wear.

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      05-13-2011 06:37 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by XmansRabbit View Post
      Yes and no our"XDS" is nothing more than fancy traction control its not a real LSD it uses the brakes to stop wheel spin by modulating the caliper of whatever wheel is spinning, same for the EDL in the base Golf and TDI. Neither of these systems will cure under steer and anyone who says it cures all under steer from our cars doesn't know what they are talking bout. It does however go along way in helping dial it out and make the car more neutral. Again EDL XDS and the like are already activated from the factory due to them being integrated into the TCS or the cars nothing for you to tweak in VCDS.
      This.

      It certainly helps with understeer, but there's no changing the fact that it's FWD, and all the dynamics that come with that.

      I will say this tho, the OEM dunlop's on my gti were so slippy that I never really paid much attention to the XDS system working. Now that i've got a good set of really sticky COnti's on, I notice the system working all the time. And it *works*. That thing will rotate a corner like nobody's business now.
      2010 DBM MK6 GTI: A bunch of go-fast goodies, and a bunch of stop-fast goodies.

    10. Member toasters's Avatar
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      05-13-2011 06:51 PM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by XmansRabbit View Post
      Again EDL XDS and the like are already activated from the factory due to them being integrated into the TCS or the cars nothing for you to tweak in VCDS.
      If XDS is already activated from the factory (Golf TDI), then how come the check box was not checked in my ABS module?

      And what's the difference between XDS and EDL? They can't be the same thing, otherwise they'd have the same name.

    11. Member RacingManiac's Avatar
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      05-13-2011 07:06 PM #10
      EDL just works on wheel spin, you get one wheel spinning, it brakes that wheel, transfer more power to the opposite wheel with traction. XDS works with the other vehicle dynamic inputs, like steering angle, speed, lateral acceleration...etc to determine how much to brake to get the car to turn better under power....

    12. Member toasters's Avatar
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      05-13-2011 07:36 PM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by RacingManiac View Post
      EDL just works on wheel spin, you get one wheel spinning, it brakes that wheel, transfer more power to the opposite wheel with traction. XDS works with the other vehicle dynamic inputs, like steering angle, speed, lateral acceleration...etc to determine how much to brake to get the car to turn better under power....
      This makes sense.

      So, the question is: Did I enable legitimate XDS by simply changing the coding on my ABS module?

    13. Member RacingManiac's Avatar
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      05-13-2011 07:47 PM #12
      Depends on I guess how different are all the sensors in GTI vs the TDI, that are required for the XDS's function. The tuning for GTI's ESP programming may or may not be the same vs TDI...

    14. 05-13-2011 08:01 PM #13
      XDS only turns on in low traction moments, otherwise it's off.

      I'm assuming the checkbox you checked was some sort of diagnostic for the system rather than actually activating it.

    15. Senior Member feels_road's Avatar
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      05-14-2011 02:17 AM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by RacingManiac View Post
      XDS works with the other vehicle dynamic inputs, like steering angle, speed, lateral acceleration...etc to determine how much to brake to get the car to turn better under power....
      Yeah, it is possible that it just uses the existing sensors/data and simply calculates the chance of one front wheel getting close to losing traction, rather than employing additional sensors. VW's explanation does not clarify this, it just says that XDS reacts to the Entlastung ("load-relief/reduction") of the inner wheel occurring during fast turns:

      Quote Originally Posted by VW
      Die Elektronische Differenzialsperre XDS ist eine Erweiterung der bekannten EDS-Funktion. Allerdings reagiert XDS nicht auf den Antriebsschlupf, sondern auf die Entlastung des kurveninneren Vorderrades bei schneller Kurvenfahrt. Aus der ESP-Hydraulik gibt XDS Druck auf das kurveninnere Rad, um es am Durchdrehen zu hindern. Damit wird die Traktion verbessert und die Neigung zum Untersteuern vermindert. Das Druckniveau bewegt sich dabei ungefähr im Bereich von 5 bis 15 bar. Der Fahreindruck ähnelt dem einer geregelten Differenzialsperre in abgeschwächter Form. Durch den einseitigen, präzisen Bremsdruckaufbau wird das Kurvenverhalten noch sportlicher, schneller und zielgenauer.
      Last edited by feels_road; 05-14-2011 at 02:20 AM.

    16. Member toasters's Avatar
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      06-08-2011 02:24 AM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by feels_road View Post
      Yeah, it is possible that it just uses the existing sensors/data and simply calculates the chance of one front wheel getting close to losing traction, rather than employing additional sensors. VW's explanation does not clarify this, it just says that XDS reacts to the Entlastung ("load-relief/reduction") of the inner wheel occurring during fast turns:
      I've been researching this and although its "said" that it employs additional sensors/etc. I can't find anything to verify this. I looked over the GTI suspension in ETKA and found no sensors at all attached to the suspension system.

      A search in ETKA for "XDS" returns nothing. I have a feeling that this system is purely software. Can anyone prove me wrong?

      I don't know what it should feel like, so I still don't know if I've activated XDS on my car by simply clicking the box on the ABS module.

    17. Member RacingManiac's Avatar
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      06-08-2011 09:47 AM #16
      Not suspension necessarily, it probably should take input from steering wheel position and accelerometers. Both of which normal ESP programming should poll when working as thats how the computer knows what the car is doing. As the car does not have electronic damper or ride height adjustment it doesn't necessarily need height sensors, which aside from the ABS sensor will be the only other type of sensors connect to the wheel end.

      It is purely software. Its a easy way to get LSD functionality without adding anything mechanical as all the required hardware are already there. The difference between EDL and XDS really will just be the actual programming difference in how it is supposed to function.
      Last edited by RacingManiac; 06-08-2011 at 09:49 AM.

    18. Member toasters's Avatar
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      06-08-2011 04:14 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by RacingManiac View Post
      Not suspension necessarily, it probably should take input from steering wheel position and accelerometers. Both of which normal ESP programming should poll when working as thats how the computer knows what the car is doing. As the car does not have electronic damper or ride height adjustment it doesn't necessarily need height sensors, which aside from the ABS sensor will be the only other type of sensors connect to the wheel end.

      It is purely software. Its a easy way to get LSD functionality without adding anything mechanical as all the required hardware are already there. The difference between EDL and XDS really will just be the actual programming difference in how it is supposed to function.
      Ok, this makes me feel even more like I probably activated XDS on my Golf TDI by simply changing the ABS module programming.

      Maybe I should take my car to an empty parking lot and do some laps with and without it activated and see if I feel a difference....

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      07-26-2011 10:41 AM #18
      In addition to checking the block in the long coding, You also have to go to adaptations> channel 36 > and then set a value from 0 to 2. This adjusts the sensitivity.
      In 0 rarely intervenes.
      In 1 its weak.
      In 2 it's strong. (I use this one)

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      07-26-2011 12:03 PM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by awesum View Post
      In addition to checking the block in the long coding, You also have to go to adaptations> channel 36 > and then set a value from 0 to 2. This adjusts the sensitivity.
      In 0 rarely intervenes.
      In 1 its weak.
      In 2 it's strong. (I use this one)
      hmm is this confirmed? if so i want mine set to 0. whats the default?

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      07-26-2011 12:42 PM #20
      Go around a corner under moderate speed in second gear, try to get to a point where the inside tire would usually just start to spin as you accelerate out. You'll feel the front end of the car pull into the corner pretty sharply if XDS is working properly. It's a bit unnatural feeling but you will get used to it.

      As for why VCDS shows it needs to be activated, I have no idea. It should be activated from the factory, although I suppose on a TDI it isn't (although that doesn't seem to make much sense to me).

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      02-07-2013 10:12 PM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by RacingManiac View Post
      EDL just works on wheel spin, you get one wheel spinning, it brakes that wheel, transfer more power to the opposite wheel with traction. XDS works with the other vehicle dynamic inputs, like steering angle, speed, lateral acceleration...etc to determine how much to brake to get the car to turn better under power....
      This is a good explanation.

      I think the reason simple EDL doesnt and cant work at higher speeds isnt so much "stress on the brake system" (although the likely on/off operation may indeed amount to a lot of cyclic stresses) but more that it's too simplistic to smoothly bias torque at higher speeds, where there's a potential for upsetting the vehicle and causing loss of control. XDS actually uses a predictive process based on various sensor data, to MODULATE brake pressure, thereby smoothly biasing torque. It does not wait for wheel spin to occur.

      Found this info (site is a great, vw-sanctioned/authored reference): http://en.volkswagen.com/en/innovati...sperrexds.html

      What ever became of this matter? Toaster, did you figure it out? I'd love to have XDS on my Golf TDI.

      Worth a thread revival.
      Last edited by RogueTDI; 02-07-2013 at 10:18 PM.

    23. Senior Member feels_road's Avatar
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      02-08-2013 03:24 AM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by RogueTDI View Post
      I'd love to have XDS on my Golf TDI.
      Or, better yet, the front LSD from the MkVII GTI... although that one is likely not compatible with our older front end and ECU/ABS module.

      I think all MkVIIs now come with XDS standard - even the R will have it (it's particularly useful to have in the back, on the R).
      After incessant complaints from a to z, I am now calling all of my characters "special."

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      02-19-2013 05:06 PM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by RogueTDI View Post
      What ever became of this matter? Toaster, did you figure it out? I'd love to have XDS on my Golf TDI.

      Worth a thread revival.
      I completely forgot about this thread. It might take me a few days, but I'll go to an empty parking lot and play with some of the settings to see if I can notice a difference.

      I've had XDS activated for a while now...although, I have not changed any adaptations settings yet. No codes or anything, so I would think that it's 'working'?

      Give me a few days and I'll report back.

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