VWVortex.com - 020ld for this stuff... a clutch and 5th gear conversation with Broke VW.
Username or Email Address
Do you already have an account?
Forgot your password?
  • Log in or Sign up

    VWVortex


    Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
    Results 1 to 25 of 48

    Thread: 020ld for this stuff... a clutch and 5th gear conversation with Broke VW.

    1. Member teknikALLEN's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 14th, 2010
      Location
      Ithaca, NY 14850
      Posts
      703
      Vehicles
      2001 VW Jetta; 1985 VW Cabriolet; 1993 VW Cabriolet; 1984 VW Gti
      11-25-2012 01:44 AM #1
      This thread is basically a repost of an email conversation I had with Broke about my 1985 Cabriolet Wolfsberg clutch and fifth gear, with pictures. I only hope it will be of help to someone else.

      I have to say up front that this guy took care and responded to every single one of my emails no matter what! What a gentleman and very knowledgeable.

      Thank you Broke!
      http://www.brokevw.com/
      NEW 0.7619 5th gears for the 020
      Last edited by teknikALLEN; 01-03-2013 at 07:58 PM.

    2. Remove Advertisements

      Advertisements
       

    3. Member teknikALLEN's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 14th, 2010
      Location
      Ithaca, NY 14850
      Posts
      703
      Vehicles
      2001 VW Jetta; 1985 VW Cabriolet; 1993 VW Cabriolet; 1984 VW Gti
      11-25-2012 01:46 AM #2
      Brian,

      Thank you for the response.

      I've been studying your pages, collecting the parts I need, making lists of the tools needed, and "wool gathering" as my gramps would say. I've almost psyched myself up enough to tackle the job; I have never done this before.

      The previous owner neglected to keep a plug in the transmission timing hole, so consequently water, dirt, grime oil and whatever has made it's way into that hole. The clutch slips like it's been greased, and the seal for the speedometer is gone, and water had leaked into the tranny from a pressure wash of the engine bay. I luckily drained the transmission and replaced the oil catching the water issue before it was damaged (I hope). I also seem to have some seepage of oil from the main seal I believe....

      My transmission is a 9A.

      Parts list:
      210mm flywheel
      flywheel bolts,
      pressure plate bolts,
      rear crank seal,
      input shaft seal,
      push rod bushing and seal,
      clutch release arm seal,
      gear selector shaft seal,
      release bearing and release bearing cover,
      clutch disc,
      16v pressure plate,
      thrust plate and thrust plate retaining spring.

      So here are my questions, I hope you have time to answer them, thank you.

      1) How should I clean the transmission?
      I pressure washed the outside and the thick grime/dirt is off. The inside is what I am worried about. I have no parts cleaner bin large enough for the housing.... but I could place it on a pan and use a brush and solvent.

      a) What solvent should I use in the bell housing where the oil shouldn't be?

      b) Then the gear box itself. I see the majority of the crude will be in the fifth gear end... how best to clean that out?

      2) The transmission it self also has about 190k miles on it. I wanted to also do a fifth gear swap with your kit you provide.

      a) How much more time, skill, and tools would that take. (I understand time depends on the other two variables).

      b) With 190k miles on these gears, would just dropping in the tall 5th gear kit be worth it, or should I service the rest of the gears at this time?... (if so I don't think I'll be doing the gear swap).

      If there are any tips or comments that could help me, I would appreciate them.

      Thank you.


      Allen

    4. Member teknikALLEN's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 14th, 2010
      Location
      Ithaca, NY 14850
      Posts
      703
      Vehicles
      2001 VW Jetta; 1985 VW Cabriolet; 1993 VW Cabriolet; 1984 VW Gti
      11-25-2012 01:46 AM #3
      Allen --

      The only way to get the inside clean is to strip it apart and clean it with kerosene, then rebuild it.

      If you aren't taking it fully apart, there isn't much you can do to clean the inside out.
      The oil never fully drains, so if you add kerosene inside it and try to flush it out that way, you end up with kerosene stuck in the trans. The only way to remove it then is to cycle fresh trans oil into the box, let it get diluted by the kerosene, then drain it which will leave a slightly less kerosene rich fluid in the trans. Each time you add fresh oil the kerosene will mix and you can drain most of it out... basically, don't put kerosene into the trans

      Inside the bellhousing you can use kerosene. A stiff parts brush and kerosene and it'll clean right up.
      Old dirty black kerosene will still clean and it is safe on the rubber, plastic, and aluminum on the trans. The cleaner the kerosene, the faster it will evaporate away. Fresh kerosene won't last a couple days on the casing while dirty kerosene will leave it oily for much longer.

      The only way to clean the 5th housing out is to wipe it out... you can remove the 5th housing piece of the casing and scrub it to death in kerosene, as it can be flushed out and wiped out unlike the trans itself. Around the gears you'll be left to wiping it clean because if you brush it then kerosene will get into the trans.

      The 5th swap kit, if the trans is out, would only take an hour or 2 tops. With good tools I can do a 5th swap in about 20 minutes as there really isn't much to it. You have to pop the selector out, remove the 5th housing, then select 5th by hand at the gears and reach into the selector hole to select reverse. This locks the trans in 2 gears and it can't move. Then you can remove the big 5th bolt holding the gear to the input shaft. A circlip holds the other gear. Pry the fork lock plate up with a couple screwdrivers and unscrew the fork tube.

      Lift the gears off, pop the thrust washer from the bottom of the big gear, slide the big gear off, replace it with the new gear, pop the thrust washer back onto the bottom.
      Slide the new gear assembly onto the input shaft, slide the new small gear onto the output shaft and install the new bolt and new circlip. Press a new lock plate onto the 5th fork once you thread the fork tube back into place.
      Slap a new paper gasket onto the 5th housing and bolt it up and you're done. Take it out of reverse, install the selector again and fill it with oil.

      Tools needed would be a 12mm XZN (triple-square, 12-point) driver for the big 5th bolt, a pair of circlip pliers, a 13mm socket/ratchet, a couple of flat blade screwdrivers, a 27mm hex driver (for the selector cover) and lastly something to screw the threaded fork tube in and out. You can use needle nose pliers for this, but it takes a lot more time than the VW tool. The VW tool is shown on page 2 of my 5th Swap pages with measurements if you want to fabricate one up. http://www.brokevw.com/5thswap2.html
      I also have a page showing how to make a 27mm tool for the selector cover here http://www.brokevw.com/27mm.html

      As for the mileage on the gears, it won't be a problem to do a 5th swap. There isn't much you can do about the gears other than buying them new, and it would take thousands of dollars to do so. The gears are $500-$700 a set, you have 5 of them. You also have the R&P set which is another $600 or so new.

      The good news is that the gears will be in decent shape unless something has happened to the trans in the past (no oil, etc.).... generally 200K miles isn't going to be that much wear on the gear teeth themselves providing they've been properly lubricated during use.
      You can have sync teeth wear on the gears, but if the clutch was properly maintained and the trans wasn't abused, they could also be in very decent shape as well.

      The 5th swap kit is $130 shipped and includes the one time use parts per VW (bolt, circlip, lock plate, gasket), but doesn't include any tools.

      When you have the 5th gears off, you can wipe around the shafts and get everything around the 5th gear set cleaned fully as the gears will be out of the way and the 5th housing will be off to allow it to be cleaned and rinsed fully.

      Oh, when I clean with kerosene I rinse the parts in water. Plain tap water. Very HOT plain tap water. With the aluminum end casing it isn't that big of a deal, there isn't any steel there to rust but when cleaning gears and shafts you have to oil them quickly.
      They are scrubbed in kerosene, then taken in and rinsed under hot running water. This carries the kerosene away and heats the part. The heating is helpful in preventing rust during the next step. After 60 seconds or so of rinsing in water, they are taken immediately to the compressed air line and hit with air to dry them. The heat of the part helps evaporate the water away. The result is a perfectly dry and clean part... but it is unprotected as it is oil-free now so it immediately needs coated in oil to protect it.
      The immediately term used when taking it to the air line... that is literal. You carry the part right form the rinsing to the air line, no delay. Letting water sit on it will cause surface rust to flash up. It can be removed but you want to avoid it so right to the air line with the part.

      I clean the parts, then rinse them 2-3 at a time and air line them all at the same time, I can't get more than that dried before rust starts, so immediately to the air line.
      Once they are all dried and clean, they can sit on a clean bench for the 30 minutes or whatever it takes to finish rinsing and drying everything, then I'll oil all of it at once... so the immediately term used for oiling isn't as vital as it is when drying the parts.

      Anyway, my paypal is the same [email protected] if you'd like the 5th swap kit.
      I am currently waiting on more 5th bolts to arrive from VW so I wouldn't be able to ship until next Monday likely but the bolts are ordered and will arrive, VW just takes forever to get parts to me so they're a week away unfortunately.
      I have everything else in stock, I've just ran out of the 5th bolts.
      Quote Originally Posted by briano1234 View Post
      I would rather do a 3 rear cables than a passenger side motor mount.
      020ld for this stuff... a clutch and 5th gear conversation with Broke VW

      My MkI & Cabby WTB Wish List
      Jetta MkIV WTB Wish List

    5. Remove Advertisements

      Advertisements
       

    6. Member teknikALLEN's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 14th, 2010
      Location
      Ithaca, NY 14850
      Posts
      703
      Vehicles
      2001 VW Jetta; 1985 VW Cabriolet; 1993 VW Cabriolet; 1984 VW Gti
      11-25-2012 01:49 AM #4
      Brian,
      I am ready to purchase the kit, if you have all the parts.
      I was wondering if you have an 020 zinc coated drain plug with a magnet you could sell me as well... I have bad luck with glue.
      I was also hoping to get delivery by next Wednesday.
      Quote Originally Posted by briano1234 View Post
      I would rather do a 3 rear cables than a passenger side motor mount.
      020ld for this stuff... a clutch and 5th gear conversation with Broke VW

      My MkI & Cabby WTB Wish List
      Jetta MkIV WTB Wish List

    7. Member teknikALLEN's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 14th, 2010
      Location
      Ithaca, NY 14850
      Posts
      703
      Vehicles
      2001 VW Jetta; 1985 VW Cabriolet; 1993 VW Cabriolet; 1984 VW Gti
      11-25-2012 01:50 AM #5
      Allen --

      I do have everything in stock, including a new OE VW magnetic drain plug.
      The drain plug is 100% new, but it looks used
      How shady does THAT sound?

      Seriously, it is 100% new, I just purchased them from VW and removed this one from the box and installed it one time into a core trans to check fitment. One time in tight, then out, and cleaned. The trans was on the bench, not in a car, and I only wanted to check that the ring gear didn't contact the magnet. It doesn't. However, the cadmium coating on the plug threads (the gold/yellow color on new parts) has been worn away, so it looks used.
      Technically, it is used as it has been installed, but it isn't used as it hasn't seen any oil, metal particles, or actual use.
      Anyway, it is a new German made OE VW magnetic drain plug for $10 if you'd like it.

      $140 shipped for everything.
      That is a new set of aftermarket 0.76 5th gears, the 5th gear install kit for a MK2 8V trans, and then the magnetic drain plug.
      Shipping would be USPS Priority with Delivery Confirmation, and I can have it on the way as soon as payment is made with shipping times of 3-4 days to get to NY.

      Getting it to you by next Wednesday I would want to ship it probably no later than Saturday morning so it shouldn't be a problem at all to get it to you by next Wednesday.

      My paypal is [email protected] and if you have any questions just let me know. Thanks!

      Brian
      Quote Originally Posted by briano1234 View Post
      I would rather do a 3 rear cables than a passenger side motor mount.
      020ld for this stuff... a clutch and 5th gear conversation with Broke VW

      My MkI & Cabby WTB Wish List
      Jetta MkIV WTB Wish List

    8. Member teknikALLEN's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 14th, 2010
      Location
      Ithaca, NY 14850
      Posts
      703
      Vehicles
      2001 VW Jetta; 1985 VW Cabriolet; 1993 VW Cabriolet; 1984 VW Gti
      11-25-2012 01:54 AM #6
      Brian,
      That sounds as shady as my "new" Eurospec 10.5 lb flywheel that has the "V" cut timing mark with the TDC dimple milled off.... not really "new", I thought new did not have the cut timing mark. http://tinytex.com/5867141
      With all the "bad" threads about the Eurospec flywheels being out of spec (too thin, need shims) and the rant about them being "Chinese junk" by a "certified" machinist, um.... chicken little or little red rooster or something like that, ;~) lol....
      I'm almost sorry I bought the part. I'm going to measure the damn thing to be sure, it's a two dowel flywheel, and should fit my 1985 Cabriolet, which is partly a Mk2; at least enough to make some things confusing.
      I did find some fuel pump wiring issues where the FP relay is from the 1984 Rabbit convertible instead of the 1986 and later Cabriolet & Mk2 8v.
      Well, for the flywheel, the price is right, it's balanced and not lightened a lot. It will allow me to get the OEM one balanced and resurfaced at a later date when I find a machinist.

      I figure the magnet is a good thing to have, since a slight second gear grind has appeared in the past couple weeks after I changed out the gear oil when water got in. I'm expecting creamy water-oil froth in my 5th gear case when I take it off, even though I drained and filled it twice.

      Pay Pal sent!

      I am really amazed at how few machinists there seem to be anymore.....

      Allen

      Oh yeah! Thread locker, where do I use it and what color? I'll be re reading the Bentley, but a confirmation is always helpful. Thanx for the help and parts!
      aa

      Last edited by teknikALLEN; 11-28-2012 at 11:06 PM.

    9. Member teknikALLEN's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 14th, 2010
      Location
      Ithaca, NY 14850
      Posts
      703
      Vehicles
      2001 VW Jetta; 1985 VW Cabriolet; 1993 VW Cabriolet; 1984 VW Gti
      11-25-2012 01:57 AM #7
      Allen --

      Yes, there have been numerous threads where the ES parts turn out to be at fault due to poor quality or being out of spec.
      If you are fighting clutch issues after the install, that will be the prime suspect if nothing else is noticeably wrong.

      Your package has been shipped, I JUST missed the post man this morning and had to hike down the street to find him, but it is on the way now
      Paypal should email you with a delivery confirmation number, if you don't get that email let me know and I'll get the number for you.

      The OE VW 5th gear bolt has thread locking compound already applied to the threads, so just spin it in and done. No need for thread locking compound anywhere else.

      Thanks and let me know if you have any questions during the swap procedure. The only change is that you'll find a circlip and a washer holding your small 5th gear to the shaft... you will delete the washer. There is a washer built into the top of this aftermarket gear, so you just need to add the circlip.

      Brian
      Quote Originally Posted by briano1234 View Post
      I would rather do a 3 rear cables than a passenger side motor mount.
      020ld for this stuff... a clutch and 5th gear conversation with Broke VW

      My MkI & Cabby WTB Wish List
      Jetta MkIV WTB Wish List

    10. Member teknikALLEN's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 14th, 2010
      Location
      Ithaca, NY 14850
      Posts
      703
      Vehicles
      2001 VW Jetta; 1985 VW Cabriolet; 1993 VW Cabriolet; 1984 VW Gti
      11-25-2012 05:03 PM #8
      So I put the car on jack stands and attached a Harbor Freight load leveler, which I saw suggested here on the Vortex. I wrapped a strap or two from the steel girder that goes across the garage, and bolted the chains from the load leveler hung from a come-along.

      The gearbox also was bolted to a chain hung from a come-along rigged the same way. That load leveler was a key piece of gear and I am so glad I got it 'cause I am 02old for this.


      Last edited by teknikALLEN; 11-25-2012 at 05:08 PM.

    11. Member teknikALLEN's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 14th, 2010
      Location
      Ithaca, NY 14850
      Posts
      703
      Vehicles
      2001 VW Jetta; 1985 VW Cabriolet; 1993 VW Cabriolet; 1984 VW Gti
      11-25-2012 05:14 PM #9
      Brian,
      So I finally started to pull my tranny in the warm weather this weekend, First thing I saw when I crawled under and looked at it was a lot of wet oil and what looks like a seal popping out at the final drive where the axel attaches (pic attached). [Spoiler Alert: seal was leaking because cone bearing was shot. Tranny lasted 500 miles before seal and bearing went.]
      Second thing was that the drain plug had been rounded out nearly entirely... Now, it was not like this when I put the new axels on, and I had a local shop do some work on it, but none that involvd the tranny... anyway... the big question is how to get the drain plug out...
      I don't have acces to a welder and do not weld, so I can't tack weld an old lug bolt in and double nut it, and there is no edge to try and grab around the outside of the plug....

      any tricks?

      In the mean time I may just drop the tranny with the oil in it and drain it out the fill hole and hope I don't get too messy. It will be easier to mess with on the workbench.

      BTW, that "seal" looks pretty new. What do I have to do with it?


      Thanks so much for the help and the parts...


      Allen
      Last edited by teknikALLEN; 07-09-2014 at 12:58 AM.
      Quote Originally Posted by briano1234 View Post
      I would rather do a 3 rear cables than a passenger side motor mount.
      020ld for this stuff... a clutch and 5th gear conversation with Broke VW

      My MkI & Cabby WTB Wish List
      Jetta MkIV WTB Wish List

    12. Member teknikALLEN's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 14th, 2010
      Location
      Ithaca, NY 14850
      Posts
      703
      Vehicles
      2001 VW Jetta; 1985 VW Cabriolet; 1993 VW Cabriolet; 1984 VW Gti
      11-25-2012 05:15 PM #10
      Allen --

      If you are speaking of the green metal portion, that is normal. That is the seal sleeve and it sticks out like that on the passenger side. There isn't one on the drivers side.

      It is unlikely leaking between the case and green seal sleeve... it is more likely between the flange seal itself (pressed into the green seal sleeve) and the flange [Spoiler Alert: seal was leaking because cone bearing was shot. Tranny lasted 500 miles before seal and bearing went.], or possibly from inside the flange where the center cap seal covers the flange circlip.

      You may need to replace the flange seals, and if the flanges are badly grooved from the seal lips then a replacement set of flanges may also be needed.

      The flange seal replacement is shown here http://brokevw.com/020flange.html

      The drain plug problem you might be able to solve with a chisel and hammer, but it is easy to screw it up and sometimes it still won't get it out. At that point you'd have to take it to someone to have them weld to the plug and back it out that way.

      With the chisel you use the edge of the chisel to bite into the top of the plug on one side... hammering it around to loosen it.
      If the angle of the chisel is too low, it won't bite into the plug.
      If the angle is too high it won't try to spin the plug when you hit it.

      You want to start with a high angle so you're driving mostly down into the plug, and doing less spinning. If you try to hit it so it spins a lot but doesn't drive the chisel DOWN into the plug, you'll just cut chunks of the plug off.

      You can also try driving a 12-point or large 6-point torx driver into the plug to get a bite and back it out like that.

      Brian
      Last edited by teknikALLEN; 07-09-2014 at 12:59 AM.
      Quote Originally Posted by briano1234 View Post
      I would rather do a 3 rear cables than a passenger side motor mount.
      020ld for this stuff... a clutch and 5th gear conversation with Broke VW

      My MkI & Cabby WTB Wish List
      Jetta MkIV WTB Wish List

    13. Member teknikALLEN's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 14th, 2010
      Location
      Ithaca, NY 14850
      Posts
      703
      Vehicles
      2001 VW Jetta; 1985 VW Cabriolet; 1993 VW Cabriolet; 1984 VW Gti
      11-25-2012 05:33 PM #11
      Brian,
      Removed the transmission and it was easy ... the problem I have found was that the gear oil leaked into the inner CV at the flange and thinned the grease on the short axel side. I'm glad I was expecting the liquid, and had a pan ready to catch it. Lots more than I expected. The grease is pretty much gone, but the bearings and cage look fine; no discoloration on the metal. Caught it in time.
      I don't know where the oil came from, well I know, but how it got past the seal, it is intact and in place.
      I attached a few pics if you care to look...

      I will check to see if I still have the remaining parts from the German Auto Parts flange seal kits I stole the center seals from.

      The inside of the bell housing was coated with oil and the PO had left out most of the bolts, just pretty much the one big ass bolt holding the gearbox to the engine! 8~0

      I'll be cleaning the gearbox and removing the clutch and flywheel to look at the main seal on the engine.

      Thanks again for all the help!

      Allen




      Last edited by teknikALLEN; 11-26-2012 at 10:40 PM.

    14. Member teknikALLEN's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 14th, 2010
      Location
      Ithaca, NY 14850
      Posts
      703
      Vehicles
      2001 VW Jetta; 1985 VW Cabriolet; 1993 VW Cabriolet; 1984 VW Gti
      11-25-2012 05:38 PM #12
      Allen --

      If the inner CV was not wet when you installed it and it is now wet with oil, either the boot has a hole in and and something leaked in from outside of the axle, or it came from the trans through the center flange seal.
      I see the seal is in place and looks OK, but oil must be getting past it around the outside of it if the CV joint boot is OK and it wasn't washed out when you installed it.
      Were these the seals you had used over, or these are the seals you were planning to use over?

      The pushrod seems to be pulling back into the trans further than usual. It may be a combination of pushrod and actuation finger wear that is allowing it to set in so far.
      You definitely have a bad seal there somewhere... either the rear crank seal on the engine or the input shaft seal on the trans, or the pushrod seal for the pushrod.

      If the end of the pushrod is worn it will walk and wobble on the thrust plate which wears the pushrod bushing out behind the seal, and this allows movement of the pushrod in the seal which then leaks. Make sure the pushrod doesn't have too much up/down side/side slop in the seal there. If it does, you need a new seal and bushing. If the end of the pushrod is worn flat, it should be replaced as well.

      Is the black plastic stopper clipped to the clutch release arm on the front of the trans? This limits how far the arm can drop and if it is missing it could explain why the pushrod is in the trans so far.

      You seem to be missing one small piece of the shield between the engine and trans. There is a big piece of sheet metal between the engine and trans, then a smaller crescent-moon shaped piece that is bolted in once the trans is installed, it fits right behind that inner passenger CV joint. If you look at the edge of your bellhousing, it is shiny and clean where it meets the engine. Right there behind the passenger flange is oily where that small piece of shield is missing.

      If the flange cap seal seems to still be pressed into the flange correctly once you remove the grease to look at it, you might try replacing it and this time run a small bead of silicone RTV around the edge of it to help seal it.

      Let me know if you have any questions, thanks!

      Brian
      Quote Originally Posted by briano1234 View Post
      I would rather do a 3 rear cables than a passenger side motor mount.
      020ld for this stuff... a clutch and 5th gear conversation with Broke VW

      My MkI & Cabby WTB Wish List
      Jetta MkIV WTB Wish List

    15. Member teknikALLEN's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 14th, 2010
      Location
      Ithaca, NY 14850
      Posts
      703
      Vehicles
      2001 VW Jetta; 1985 VW Cabriolet; 1993 VW Cabriolet; 1984 VW Gti
      11-25-2012 05:45 PM #13
      Brian,
      When I examined the new flange seal kits I have, I discovered I had only used one center seal, and my note on the package said it was used on the passenger side (the one that is not washed out). The CV boots are very nice still with no damage (new complete Febi axels for amazingly cheeeeep).

      The black plastic actuation arm stopper is missing and when I tilted the engine/gearbox to clear the inner fender wall, the release finger pushed the 5th gear end seal off, draining the fluid into a pan that luckily just happened to be there from the axle removal.. ;~)
      The push rod looks fine with no flat ends or noticeable wear and no wiggle; The missing stopper accounts for the push rod being set in so far. The actuation finger looks pretty shiny and unworn with no gunk built up in the 5th housing (hurrrah!).

      I bought the car from a southerner who did a repaint, that funky southern undercoat that goes up the lower body panels, trim and some other decent cosmetic refresh work, but the interior & top need attention and mechanically I have been finding some parts missing here and there as well as some hardware that is not OEM & not so good IMO (bolts instead of exhaust studs, the missing trans mount bolts, that missing sheet metal you mention, the front A arm bolts are mismatched with one too long and neither look like hardened steel, just to mention a few...). I have nearly completed replacing everything mechanically expendable.

      I do have all the seals and plan on replacing them all as I don't want to drop this tranny again for a long time. What do you think of this approach? Am I being too much of a perfectionist? I am usually from the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" school.

      So here is the question:
      What do you call that crescent piece of sheet metal that is missing? Where can I get it?

      I'll check for a reply a little later today, but you seem to be on a regular schedule and may not see this until later tonight or tomorrow morning.
      Thank you so very much.

      Allen
      Quote Originally Posted by briano1234 View Post
      I would rather do a 3 rear cables than a passenger side motor mount.
      020ld for this stuff... a clutch and 5th gear conversation with Broke VW

      My MkI & Cabby WTB Wish List
      Jetta MkIV WTB Wish List

    16. Member teknikALLEN's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 14th, 2010
      Location
      Ithaca, NY 14850
      Posts
      703
      Vehicles
      2001 VW Jetta; 1985 VW Cabriolet; 1993 VW Cabriolet; 1984 VW Gti
      11-25-2012 05:47 PM #14
      Allen --

      The missing cover plate is going to be a VW only item or one from a junkyard.
      There are a few part numbers showing for that plate, so I would suggest either finding the match at a junkyard or taking the VIN to the dealer and see how they do.

      The 1986 part number 055103648E is no longer showing valid.
      There is a different piece used in the 1990 years and on that may be correct as well, it has a few part numbers depending on the VIN.
      068103645M and 038103645A are the newer numbers, but only the last one shows up as valid and is priced at about $20 at the dealer.
      Allen --

      The missing cover plate is going to be a VW only item or one from a junkyard.
      There are a few part numbers showing for that plate, so I would suggest either finding the match at a junkyard or taking the VIN to the dealer and see how they do.

      The 1986 part number 055103648E is no longer showing valid.
      There is a different piece used in the 1990 years and on that may be correct as well, it has a few part numbers depending on the VIN.
      068103645M and 038103645A are the newer numbers, but only the last one shows up as valid and is priced at about $20 at the dealer.

      The moly grease I forgot to mention...
      You need roughly 90 grams of grease per CV so the tubs are 400+ grams and should be plenty.

      If you can't find a black plastic stopper for the arm, I can send one out for the cost of postage. You want to have one in case the cable lets go or something, the arm won't come flying down and knock the end cap off, dumping your oil. You can limp home without a clutch. You cannot limp home without oil

      It sounds like the leaking seal is the side with the old seal, so you should be good to go with the new seal cap in the flange. I would also do the seals if you have them while it is out.

      Brian
      Quote Originally Posted by briano1234 View Post
      I would rather do a 3 rear cables than a passenger side motor mount.
      020ld for this stuff... a clutch and 5th gear conversation with Broke VW

      My MkI & Cabby WTB Wish List
      Jetta MkIV WTB Wish List

    17. Member teknikALLEN's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 14th, 2010
      Location
      Ithaca, NY 14850
      Posts
      703
      Vehicles
      2001 VW Jetta; 1985 VW Cabriolet; 1993 VW Cabriolet; 1984 VW Gti
      11-25-2012 05:55 PM #15
      Brian,

      Thanks for all the part numbers. I'll search and see if there is an actual English name to describe the part lol. I'll check the dealership for that last part number as well. I could also call VWParts in Fleischman, NY, in the middle of the Catskill mountains... It's a nice drive from where I'm at and they have thousands of square feet of NOS as well as salvaged parts.

      I got all the other parts; new center seals as well as the grease... I got a great deal on some Liqua-moly 90g for a couple bucks, then I found I had a packet in a replacement boot kit I had on the shelf... where it will stay.
      I attached a couple of pics: the fly wheel was super gunky and the clutch and pressure plate were dangerously close to nothing. Check the main seal pic and tell me what you think... I also included a pic of the back of the pressure plate where it bolts up to the engine. It is amazingly clean...

      Not sure if I should mess with the main seal, but it looks a bit nicked and I think I should do it as it is apart and I have all the seals... I believe the gunk is mostly due to gearbox seals (which I have), but I do suspect that the missing plate allowed some grease to get in as it spun out of the axle...
      I've dropped the gearbox off today to tack a bolt into the stripped hex drain plug... hope that goes well I should be getting a call soon.

      I was just thinking ahead to actually putting the pressure plate, flywheel and clutch back on and I am worried about getting the flywheel lined up correctly with the engine stroke.... I'll read some more Bentley tonight.

      Tomorrow I'll finish cleaning the engine & gearbox before I start on the seals & crack the 5th gear box. With luck I should finish sooner rather than later.
      I have been a bit slow with this project, been working in a unheated garage that gets direct sun at 11 AM..

      Allen






      After some elbow grease, it looked like this:


      Last edited by teknikALLEN; 11-26-2012 at 09:11 AM.

    18. Member teknikALLEN's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 14th, 2010
      Location
      Ithaca, NY 14850
      Posts
      703
      Vehicles
      2001 VW Jetta; 1985 VW Cabriolet; 1993 VW Cabriolet; 1984 VW Gti
      11-25-2012 05:56 PM #16
      Allen --

      VW calls it a Cover Plate.

      As for the flywheel alignment, it will only go on one way.
      The PP bolts are spaced so that the PP only fits to the crank one way.
      The FW is pinned with 2 pins to make it fit the PP only one way.

      I would replace the rear crank seal while it is apart.

      Brian
      Quote Originally Posted by briano1234 View Post
      I would rather do a 3 rear cables than a passenger side motor mount.
      020ld for this stuff... a clutch and 5th gear conversation with Broke VW

      My MkI & Cabby WTB Wish List
      Jetta MkIV WTB Wish List

    19. Member teknikALLEN's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 14th, 2010
      Location
      Ithaca, NY 14850
      Posts
      703
      Vehicles
      2001 VW Jetta; 1985 VW Cabriolet; 1993 VW Cabriolet; 1984 VW Gti
      11-25-2012 05:58 PM #17
      Brian,
      Just read that the blue tint in the nastiness means it is leaking engine oil, the bad smell is gearbox oil. So all the seals will be replaced.
      I also noticed the two alignment pins as well in another Vortex thread.... although my Bentley doesn't seem to mention them.

      Still looking for the Cover plate... local dealership says the 1985 cabriolet number starts with an 020 which is not the same # as the 055103648e, that comes up as an 87 Jetta for them.... same part I think, but they can't tell me, I'll have to come look at pictures.

      I have found that the 1985 Cabriolet has many parts coded for the previous run of Rabbit Convertibles. I assume they were cleaning out their parts bins on the first run of the re-badged Rabbit.

      I hope I can get it together to get home for Thanksgiving. Tooo damn slow going for me, I'm anxious as hell... lol. I'll be wasting more time today running around in a borrowed car sourcing this part, and searching and emailing from the local library computer.....

      Thanks Brian... when I get back to a real job with real money, I'll pass on the wealth and "donate" for your time.

      Allen
      Quote Originally Posted by briano1234 View Post
      I would rather do a 3 rear cables than a passenger side motor mount.
      020ld for this stuff... a clutch and 5th gear conversation with Broke VW

      My MkI & Cabby WTB Wish List
      Jetta MkIV WTB Wish List

    20. Member teknikALLEN's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 14th, 2010
      Location
      Ithaca, NY 14850
      Posts
      703
      Vehicles
      2001 VW Jetta; 1985 VW Cabriolet; 1993 VW Cabriolet; 1984 VW Gti
      11-25-2012 05:59 PM #18
      Allen --

      The Bentley mentions it in the Trans and Clutch section, part 5.2

      CAUTION-

      The two guide pins in the flywheel must align with the corresponding holes in the clutch pressure plate, or the pressure plate will be damaged during installation. Do not mistake balancing holes for guide pin holes.


      The MK1/2 cars used a pair of 6mm pins, then the very early MK3 2.0L cars did as well, but soon after they changed to a single 7mm pin for the rest of the MK3 years so most MK3 are a single 7mm pin style... http://brokevw.com/pic%20617.jpg


      When you look at the dealer software, it should be the ETKA program.

      The part I am looking at is for a US market 1985 Rabbit Conv./Golf Cabrio (model CONV), Main Group 1, Sub Group 03, Illustration 3-01.... which is part #49 on my software but it might not be the same on theirs as it is updated, mine is not

      That is the 038103645A which is the one showing as available for about $20.


      Good luck on the hunt!


      Brian

    21. Member teknikALLEN's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 14th, 2010
      Location
      Ithaca, NY 14850
      Posts
      703
      Vehicles
      2001 VW Jetta; 1985 VW Cabriolet; 1993 VW Cabriolet; 1984 VW Gti
      11-25-2012 06:01 PM #19
      Brian,
      Thanks for the details.
      It's from section 8 5.2 #8 of my Bentley manual (edit. close date 08/92); Don't see how I missed that!

      The software they were working from was still 7.8, but I'm sure it's updated. They were nice but didn't want to pull up any other pics and couldn't pull up a diagram from a part number... I thought I was able to with the ETKA I have at my home computer... well whatever...

      I attached a pic (png) from VAG-cat, it appears there as #49
      Can you confirm that is the correct part for me?

      I would attempt to get it from the dealer Monday, but won't likely see it until Wednesday, which is too late for me. I want to be done with assembly, monkeying around with the shift linkage issues from getting the engine lined up correctly by Tuesday and outta town & back to my wife.

      Looks like I may be able to slip it in after I assemble the gearbox to the engine. Do you think I could?
      If not, I'll have to leave it out, which bothers me a lot... lol.

      If so I'll order it from these folks in Indiana and fabricate a gasket: http://www.vwpartsdept.com/OEMParts/...38103645A.html

      What a PITA!
      Maybe I'm being too particular... it's a wonder I get anything done.

      Thanks!

      Allen

      Last edited by teknikALLEN; 11-26-2012 at 08:39 AM. Reason: add pic

    22. Member teknikALLEN's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 14th, 2010
      Location
      Ithaca, NY 14850
      Posts
      703
      Vehicles
      2001 VW Jetta; 1985 VW Cabriolet; 1993 VW Cabriolet; 1984 VW Gti
      11-25-2012 10:18 PM #20
      Allen --

      That looks correct, but I'm not 100% on it.
      Dealing with the parts software and VW's changes over the years means I'm never sure about a part until I have it in my hands, but I think that is correct.

      The other stock numbers though are other parts... they are the parts near the cover you are looking for. One is the part number to the big piece of sheet metal that you have now, one of those is the part number to the actual bellhousing portion of the casing (020103071H which is about $800) but the 038103645A I think is the part you need.

      Also, I do think you can install it with everything in place. If memory serves me, there is a 10mm and an 11mm bolt holding the plate in place. One into the sheet metal on the engine, one into the bellhousing.
      It has been some time since I've messed with them though.
      You should be able to slip it into place and secure it with the 2 bolts.

      Brian



      Later, the part arrived... I'll piece it in and add some pics.


      Built in gasket, too.

      Last edited by teknikALLEN; 11-26-2012 at 11:32 PM.

    23. Member teknikALLEN's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 14th, 2010
      Location
      Ithaca, NY 14850
      Posts
      703
      Vehicles
      2001 VW Jetta; 1985 VW Cabriolet; 1993 VW Cabriolet; 1984 VW Gti
      11-25-2012 10:19 PM #21
      Brian,

      Thanks again for the info.

      I checked the eurospec flywheel and the measurements match the old one in the correct places. I also measured the pressure plate as it looked a bit thicker, it is also good. It's a 16V pressure plate, I plan to pull a small trailer to FLA next summer, ha!

      I think I screwed up the crank seal putting it in. It folded out in one small spot, so I poked it in and it looked alright, but looking at the picture it looks torn. Have a look.
      Guess I'll do it over with another...How far does it need to be in? The old one was in further than my "practice" seal, which is flush.. I really do not have the proper tool to press it in further, nor a socket large enough to press this seal, I just used a rubber mallet.

      Regards,
      Allen
      Last edited by teknikALLEN; 11-26-2012 at 08:57 AM.

    24. Member teknikALLEN's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 14th, 2010
      Location
      Ithaca, NY 14850
      Posts
      703
      Vehicles
      2001 VW Jetta; 1985 VW Cabriolet; 1993 VW Cabriolet; 1984 VW Gti
      11-26-2012 09:07 AM #22
      Allen --

      As for how far they install, I'm not sure to be honest. I would drive the seal in flush myself unless there is a chamfer on the inside bore then I would install it to just under the chamfer.
      If the crank has a wider section then I would drive the seal in until it rode on the wide section of the crank... I don't think it has a wide section, but it has been too long since I've messed with it. I only mention it because the pic you sent looks like there is a big gap between the seal dust lip and the crank.
      I see the place where it is ripped there where the seal dust lip is warped, but the rest of the lip doesn't look like it is sealing against the crank.

      It reminds me of when someone uses a 24mm seal on a 22mm input shaft trans. It leaves a 1mm gap between the seal and shaft. The pic you sent doesn't look quite that bad, but it looks like a 0.5mm gap, so I'd make sure the seal is the right size.
      Compare the seal size numbers that should be on the seal to the old seal.

      In the pic you can see the seal type, a FPM which is Fluorine (Viton), but somewhere along the seal should be 3 numbers, the ID, OD, and depth. Compare those to the old seal to make sure they are the same.
      Quote Originally Posted by briano1234 View Post
      I would rather do a 3 rear cables than a passenger side motor mount.
      020ld for this stuff... a clutch and 5th gear conversation with Broke VW

      My MkI & Cabby WTB Wish List
      Jetta MkIV WTB Wish List

    25. Member teknikALLEN's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 14th, 2010
      Location
      Ithaca, NY 14850
      Posts
      703
      Vehicles
      2001 VW Jetta; 1985 VW Cabriolet; 1993 VW Cabriolet; 1984 VW Gti
      11-26-2012 09:09 AM #23
      Brian,
      I will check the seal for the dimensions... great info.

      I tore in to the gearbox today. The push rod seal was brittle and the brass bushing pretty much disintegrated when I threaded it. I got used qtips to get all the brass out, it was held there with what looked like grease.

      Everything else went fine. The seal around the push rod tube in the center of the gearbox (input shaft?) came out way to easy by poking it with a screwdriver. The flange seals were an other story. They would not spin but I bent them and pried them out.
      Last edited by teknikALLEN; 11-26-2012 at 09:28 AM.

    26. Member teknikALLEN's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 14th, 2010
      Location
      Ithaca, NY 14850
      Posts
      703
      Vehicles
      2001 VW Jetta; 1985 VW Cabriolet; 1993 VW Cabriolet; 1984 VW Gti
      11-26-2012 09:27 AM #24
      First thing was to get the push rod seal and flange seals out.

      Push rod seal crumbled,


      as did the brass bushing.. real brittle stuff. A cheep Harbor Freight slide hammer seal puller for $17 has a M10 threaded rod & worked on the brass as Broke showed in his DIY... also helped pull the main seal...



      The flange seals were extremely tight, but with a little persuasion.. well, get the picture...



      This tool was very handy to compress the springs to get the center circlip on. With out it I had no way to do it... invaluable.



      Pile of worn parts, brittle seals, and bushings as well as the "good" side of the push rod. The taper on the push rod, which normally rests on thr pressure plate cover, was worn off to nearly no taper and perfectly flat. The rod was nearly an inch shorter than the new replacement. The worn end was flipped around by the PO and rest against the throw out bearing.

      Last edited by teknikALLEN; 11-26-2012 at 11:51 AM.

    27. Member teknikALLEN's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 14th, 2010
      Location
      Ithaca, NY 14850
      Posts
      703
      Vehicles
      2001 VW Jetta; 1985 VW Cabriolet; 1993 VW Cabriolet; 1984 VW Gti
      11-26-2012 09:30 AM #25
      Pulled the fifth gear cover, and this is what I see. Pretty darn clean in there...



      Here is the gear set.



      They are a bit scuffed up, but passable.

      Last edited by teknikALLEN; 12-11-2012 at 12:16 PM.

    Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •