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    Thread: FAQ Material - 20v ... Best Build Threads

    1. Member BeasTToftheEast's Avatar
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      02' Audi TT Quattro stroked to 2008cc with a PTE6266 Twinscroll
      05-18-2016 03:04 PM #51
      The components used are irrelevant since the measuring device is inaccurate and the industry opinion of them is that they over-measure. Almost like if an obese person stepped on a scale and it showed 200 lbs they will feel great about themselves despite the inaccuracy. This is why no race teams use them for establishing power figures. They are only useful for establishing figures against your own baseline, not as a comparison for cars measured on a hub dyno. On a dynojet you're having to spin a heavy roller, I think the rollers on ours weigh like 4-5000lbs combined. On that, you don't have the rollers to spin or the wheels adding unsprung weight. You do apply an eddy current that adds resistance, but it isn't the quite same. Your S366 turbo is very similar to a 6266 as far as flow and they do not have the capability to produce 617hp to 4 wheels at only 28 PSI even if you have a fully built stroker motor. You can believe whatever you like, but as I said I've been around the 20v turbo's for nearly a decade and your figures just don't add up.

      http://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomete...s-v-coupe.html
      This is only one of the many articles I found where people compared the figures to show that results were considerably higher with the same car. It must be a conspiracy...

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    3. 05-18-2016 04:52 PM #52
      In the interest of my time I'll just spend a quick minuet correcting some of the misinformation you have been pedaling here.

      Which "industry opinion" are you quoting here exactly?

      It is certainly not the automotive industry.
      Because in the relevant automotive industry (something you seem to know very little about) once development has finished on what are typically motoring permanent magnet engine dynamometers, and the engine performance needs to be measured with the power train installed in a chassis they certainly DO NOT use rolling road dynamometers for any sort of performance measurement.

      Engineers spend a lot of time removing variables from tests that are hard to control, and especially ones that can easily cause catastrophic failure (Such as tires on rolling road dynamometers). The industry standard for this type of testing is in fact a motoring direct drive load cell manufactured by companies such as AVL. Rolling road dynamometers used for development are almost exclusively motoring, and used primarily for light load testing and calibration. Things like simulated road load, and almost never measuring wheel torque as an absolute number, as they are well aware of the shortcomings of such a measurement.

      All of the relevant auto racing teams use AVL hub-type load cells to measure the powertrain performance. Teams like HPD TRD HMS ect. Just because you read a bunch of posts on the internet does not mean you know the "facts".

      And quoting an inertial rolling road dynamometer as superior is again, quite laughable. How do you plan to do any sort of proper calibration with a ramp rate dependent on engine torque? You simply cannot properly.

      This particular hub-type chassis dynamometer has inertial compensation and uses 4 synchronized eddy current load cells to measure axle torque. The system is capable of any ramp rate desired, including holding steady state and is rated up to 1500 horsepower per axle. It is far superior to and inertial/eddy current assisted inertial dynamometer that you are trying to promote here. We make repeatable back to back runs within a few horsepower on cars making over 600 allowing proper calibration to take place.

      Brandon over at Breakout is very knowledgeable and has a lot to offer to people who are genuinely interested. He like many other people with the applicable knowledge gets easily dissuaded by people who react like in this forum and he chooses to stay away and let the good customers come to him.

      I don’t really spend too much time looking at these turbochargers anymore so I cannot speak for the 6266 that you quote, but I do know that the turbocharger installed on the car during that test had a 66mm inducer compressor, with a 74mm turbine exducer and 80mm turbine inducer which is not a standard option. This allows for a very good pressure ratio. When coupled with these camshafts (again not standard) the pressure ratio allows for quite a bit more aggressive centerline.

      If you see something you don’t understand, don’t try to discount it acting all high and mighty with your internet experience. Ask a few intelligent questions and you might learn a thing or two.

      These rolling road load cells you speak of are great for a few things, such as the quick and dirty ability to load and unload cars without having to worry about bolt patterns and all that. The quality of the data is extremely poor, and subject to a lot of post processing that can easily be user altered. Quoting proper data as posted above in this thread as “bloated” because your OPINION based upon some posts in some random forum (which forgive me I have not read) is quite laughable as well. The fact that your only source of information is the internet speaks worlds about your “10 years of experience”.

      Just because you've been a Yankee's fan for 10 years doesn't mean you can play ball. Obviously.

    4. Member lorge1989's Avatar
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      88 Audi 90 2.0 20V HX35, 94 Audi 90 V8, 78 GMC High Sierra, 03 TDI and some bicycles
      05-18-2016 05:27 PM #53
      Quote Originally Posted by BeasTToftheEast View Post
      The components used are irrelevant since the measuring device is inaccurate and the industry opinion of them is that they over-measure. Almost like if an obese person stepped on a scale and it showed 200 lbs they will feel great about themselves despite the inaccuracy. This is why no race teams use them for establishing power figures. They are only useful for establishing figures against your own baseline, not as a comparison for cars measured on a hub dyno. On a dynojet you're having to spin a heavy roller, I think the rollers on ours weigh like 4-5000lbs combined. On that, you don't have the rollers to spin or the wheels adding unsprung weight. You do apply an eddy current that adds resistance, but it isn't the quite same. Your S366 turbo is very similar to a 6266 as far as flow and they do not have the capability to produce 617hp to 4 wheels at only 28 PSI even if you have a fully built stroker motor. You can believe whatever you like, but as I said I've been around the 20v turbo's for nearly a decade and your figures just don't add up.

      http://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomete...s-v-coupe.html
      This is only one of the many articles I found where people compared the figures to show that results were considerably higher with the same car. It must be a conspiracy...
      Just one question, I can't comment on the technical dyno stuff, but how is a 6266 and his turbo similar?

      6266
      Comp. 62mm inducer, 82mm ex
      Turbine. 76/66


      And now the S366 run on the TT in question
      Comp. 66/90
      Turbine 80/76



      Quote Originally Posted by Godfather #90 View Post
      In the interest of my time I'll just spend a quick minuet correcting some of the misinformation you have been pedaling here.

      Which "industry opinion" are you quoting here exactly?

      It is certainly not the automotive industry.
      Because in the relevant automotive industry (something you seem to know very little about) once development has finished on what are typically motoring permanent magnet engine dynamometers, and the engine performance needs to be measured with the power train installed in a chassis they certainly DO NOT use rolling road dynamometers for any sort of performance measurement.

      Engineers spend a lot of time removing variables from tests that are hard to control, and especially ones that can easily cause catastrophic failure (Such as tires on rolling road dynamometers). The industry standard for this type of testing is in fact a motoring direct drive load cell manufactured by companies such as AVL. Rolling road dynamometers used for development are almost exclusively motoring, and used primarily for light load testing and calibration. Things like simulated road load, and almost never measuring wheel torque as an absolute number, as they are well aware of the shortcomings of such a measurement.

      All of the relevant auto racing teams use AVL hub-type load cells to measure the powertrain performance. Teams like HPD TRD HMS ect. Just because you read a bunch of posts on the internet does not mean you know the "facts".

      And quoting an inertial rolling road dynamometer as superior is again, quite laughable. How do you plan to do any sort of proper calibration with a ramp rate dependent on engine torque? You simply cannot properly.

      This particular hub-type chassis dynamometer has inertial compensation and uses 4 synchronized eddy current load cells to measure axle torque. The system is capable of any ramp rate desired, including holding steady state and is rated up to 1500 horsepower per axle. It is far superior to and inertial/eddy current assisted inertial dynamometer that you are trying to promote here. We make repeatable back to back runs within a few horsepower on cars making over 600 allowing proper calibration to take place.

      Brandon over at Breakout is very knowledgeable and has a lot to offer to people who are genuinely interested. He like many other people with the applicable knowledge gets easily dissuaded by people who react like in this forum and he chooses to stay away and let the good customers come to him.

      I don’t really spend too much time looking at these turbochargers anymore so I cannot speak for the 6266 that you quote, but I do know that the turbocharger installed on the car during that test had a 66mm inducer compressor, with a 74mm turbine exducer and 80mm turbine inducer which is not a standard option. This allows for a very good pressure ratio. When coupled with these camshafts (again not standard) the pressure ratio allows for quite a bit more aggressive centerline.

      If you see something you don’t understand, don’t try to discount it acting all high and mighty with your internet experience. Ask a few intelligent questions and you might learn a thing or two.

      These rolling road load cells you speak of are great for a few things, such as the quick and dirty ability to load and unload cars without having to worry about bolt patterns and all that. The quality of the data is extremely poor, and subject to a lot of post processing that can easily be user altered. Quoting proper data as posted above in this thread as “bloated” because your OPINION based upon some posts in some random forum (which forgive me I have not read) is quite laughable as well. The fact that your only source of information is the internet speaks worlds about your “10 years of experience”.

      Just because you've been a Yankee's fan for 10 years doesn't mean you can play ball. Obviously.





      But seriously, thanks for posting.

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    6. Member Brake Weight's Avatar
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      2004.5 f23 GLi, '99 Taco on 33s
      05-18-2016 05:39 PM #54
      Maybe a Florida dyno was used...
      Quote Originally Posted by Anony00GT View Post
      Who's the idiot that deleted the EVAP solenoid?

    7. Member ejg3855's Avatar
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      1993 UrS4, BT-TT, tdi golf, a3, tdi CJ7 project, rangerousmaximus
      05-18-2016 07:49 PM #55
      Quote Originally Posted by Brake Weight View Post
      Maybe a Florida dyno was used...
      Haha haven't heard that in years.


      The TT on breakouts dyno does have a unique turbine side, it's also been compared to other local traditional dynos and been within a percent or two.

      It's located in WNY for climate reference.

      Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
      I've been around this game to long.

      BREAKOUTMOTORSPORTS - Focusing on B5 V8 Swaps.

    8. Member ejg3855's Avatar
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      1993 UrS4, BT-TT, tdi golf, a3, tdi CJ7 project, rangerousmaximus
      05-19-2016 12:38 PM #56
      years of experience ................. on facebook.


      Last edited by ejg3855; 05-19-2016 at 12:53 PM.
      I've been around this game to long.

      BREAKOUTMOTORSPORTS - Focusing on B5 V8 Swaps.

    9. Member Brake Weight's Avatar
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      2004.5 f23 GLi, '99 Taco on 33s
      05-19-2016 01:06 PM #57
      Quote Originally Posted by ejg3855 View Post
      years of experience ................. on facebook.


      #LOL
      Quote Originally Posted by Anony00GT View Post
      Who's the idiot that deleted the EVAP solenoid?

    10. Member Three3Se7en's Avatar
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      02 337. 08 F150
      05-30-2016 03:28 PM #58
      **** got real in here!
      2.1L, 1000cc, Maestro, CompTurbo 5558, CTS, IE intake, Scat rods, more to come..

    11. Member vdub18njp's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 26th, 2009
      Location
      Bay Area, CA
      Posts
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      03 GTI 1.8BT GT3071R-71BB
      06-03-2016 05:23 PM #59
      What's up VW Vortex?

      Figured I'd share my BT build to all the locals around who are interested in seeing what type of power you're able to make if you slap a larger turbo on our motors. Always willing to answer any questions and see how my little 1.8L 4 cyl car does against others. Enjoy!

      Ever since I purchased my GTI in late 2008 and felt the little power the stock K03S makes, I've been wanting to slap a real turbo in my car and have a daily driver with more of a punch than the factory made. This vision has now it's become a vivid reality, and my sleeper of a daily driver

      I want to thank Dustin for guidance, Al @ PPT for his amazing quality turbo kit, everyone at 034 for assembling and tuning the car, and the folks at German Transaxle of America in Bend, OR for building a bullet-proof transmission to hold the power I'm making.



      * Chassis: MKIV GTI

      * Turbo: GT3071R-71BB

      * Displacement: 1848CC

      * Software: 034 Motorsport Custom Software

      * Injectors: Bosch EV14s 850cc

      * Exhaust Manifold: PPT V-band

      * Intake Manifold: 034 Motorsport Large Port Intake Manifold by Grams

      * Cams: Stock OEM

      * Purpose: Daily Driver



      Engine (Fully Built)


      *JE Forged Piston Set, 82.5mm Bore, 86.4mm Stroke, 8.5:1 CR, Tuff Skirt + Thermal Barrier Crown Coatings

      *IE 144x20 H-Beam Connecting Rods

      *034 Billet Main Bearing cap set, Coated

      *034 Rod Bearing set, Coated w/ Coated Thrust Washers

      *Timing chain

      *Timing chain tensioner

      *ARP Head Stud Kit, Main stud kit

      *Crankshaft Seal

      *OEM Timing belt kit (tensioner, tensioner roller, idler roller, water pump, tstat, belt, seals)

      *Mishimoto High Output Aluminum Radiator

      *Fluidampr Crank Pully

      *Eurojet Racing Race FMIC w/ Custom PPT intercooler piping to route to a flipped (Driver’s side) intake manifold (piping stays mostly hidden)

      *AEM DryFlow Cone Filter

      *70mm Throttle Body (DBW by Grams Performance & Design)

      *034 Motorsport 85mm Slot Style MAF

      *034 Motorsport Catch Can

      *034 Motorsport SAI Block off plate

      *Forge 7 piece 1.8T Coolant Hose Kit

      *Ported/Polished AWP Head

      *Supertech Intake & Exhaust Valves (OE size)

      *Supertech Valve Spring/Titanium Retainer Set

      *OE Guides

      *034 Motorsports Breather Hose Kit

      *Metal Thermostat Housing

      *VF Engineering Motor mounts + VF Dogbone Mount

      *034 Motorsport Large Port Intake Manifold by Grams

      *034 Motorsport Phenolic Spacer (Large Port)

      *034 Motorsport custom software/tune done by Nate @ 034


      Turbo


      *Pag Parts Turbo (PPT) GT3071R-71BB [Arnold’s custom 71mm Billet wheel which has better flow characteristics than the GTX wheels]

      *Turbosmart Ultra-Gate 38mm Wastegate (1 bar spring)

      *PPT Downpipe w/ Wastegate Rerouted to the downpipe

      *V-banded everything

      *Custom 3” Turbo-back Exhaust to a Borla Muffler w/ Turndown tip

      *PTP T3 Lava Turbo Blanket (best quality turbo blankets on the market)

      *APR R1 Diverter Valve

      *OEM N75 valve

      Future plans: W/M kit & PPT V3 73mm Billett wheel upgrade (adds 50 crank HP) & MadMax DV


      Fueling


      *Deatschwerks DW65V High-Flow Fuel Pump

      *Bosch EV14 850CC Injectors

      *OEM Fuel rail

      Future Plans: 034 Motorsport Fuel Rail & Genesis II 1000cc “Double-Fogger” Injectors


      Suspension/Drivetrain/Clutch/Transmission


      *Bilstien Sport Shocks/Struts

      *Neuspeed Race Springs

      *COMPLETELY REBUILT 02M w/ new bearings, upgraded shift forks, reinforcement plate, 4th gear input shaft support, REM micropolished finished gears, syrchros, proper preloads, etc., from German Transaxle of America (GTA is located in Bend, OR - highly recommended for those who want to build their trans as much as their motor)

      *Peloquin's 02M High Torque custom built LSD

      *FX400 Segmented 8 Puck Feramic Clutch rated at ~510+ ft-lbs

      *Drive Shaft Shop Stage 2.9 500HP 02M axles

      *REM finished gears, input shafts, etc.

      *BG Ultra-Guard Full Synthetic Gear Lubricant 75W-90

      *Neuspeed Front Anti-Sway Bar – 25mm

      *Neuspeed Rear Anti-Sway Bar – 28mm

      *VF Engineering Sway Bar End-links

      *Upgraded Control Arm Bushings (Poly)

      Future Plans: H&R Coilovers AND throwing this bad boy in there






      Brakes/Wheels/Tires


      *OEM R32 Front Calipers (Inspected, Rebuilt w/ new seals, Powder-coated Black, Re-inspected)

      *OEM R32 Rear Calipers (Inspected, Rebuilt w/ new seals, Powder-coated Black, Re-inspected)

      *Adam’s Rotors (all 4 corners, dimpled)

      *Carbotech Pads (F-CT682 & R-CT340 1521 Street Compound)

      *Custom S/S Brake-lines made by Royal Brass in San Jose, CA (good for over 4000 PSI)

      *TSW Nurburgring Matte Gunmetal Rotary Forged 18x8 wheels

      *Michelin Pilot Sport 4S (235/40/18) some rubbing

      Small Port v. Large Port:

      Small Turbo Upgrade:

      Bolt-ons Old Dyno:



      Bolt-ons Mustang Dyno:



      Big Turbo Mustang Dyno (with slight air leak, first tune):

      Last edited by vdub18njp; 12-16-2018 at 02:15 AM. Reason: UPDATED
      Pag Parts - Best Turbo Kit for 1.8Ts
      DUBCLINIC - Best VW/Audi Shop in the South Bay
      BDMotorwerks - Best Customer Service for Parts & Builds
      German Transaxle of America - Best Trans Repair on the West Coast
      1.8T PPT GT3071BB-V2 w/ some upgrades

    12. Member
      Join Date
      Dec 21st, 2014
      Location
      South West
      Posts
      167
      Vehicles
      2000 New Beetle BT
      09-08-2016 07:37 AM #60
      A MK1 NB. Pretty sure I have the highest HP 1.8t NB in the US.
      https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...-Sleeper-build


      * Turbo: PTE 5830

      * Displacement: 1825CC

      * Software: EURODYNE MEASTRO

      * Injectors: GENISIS 630CC @4BAR

      * Exhaust Manifold: LOG

      * Intake Manifold: 034

      * Cams: Stock CATCAM 3658

      * Purpose: DAILY DRIVER, ROLL RACING
      Last edited by Blackelk; 09-08-2016 at 07:42 AM.

    13. 01-11-2017 11:44 AM #61




      Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

    14. 01-11-2017 11:52 AM #62
      Quote Originally Posted by SiverTTQuattro View Post




      Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
      Mahler .5 mm overbore pistons
      I.E. Conn rods
      AEB head with super tech valves, valve springs and retainers
      GT3076 turbo
      Calico coated rod bearings
      Mahle main bearings
      Steel so flexible mass flywheel with ARP bolts
      ARP crank bolt

      Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

    15. Member vdub18njp's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 26th, 2009
      Location
      Bay Area, CA
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      03 GTI 1.8BT GT3071R-71BB
      09-17-2018 12:47 PM #63
      Quote Originally Posted by SiverTTQuattro View Post
      Mahler .5 mm overbore pistons
      I.E. Conn rods
      AEB head with super tech valves, valve springs and retainers
      GT3076 turbo
      Calico coated rod bearings
      Mahle main bearings
      Steel so flexible mass flywheel with ARP bolts
      ARP crank bolt

      Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

      What software are you using? Size injectors? Driving as a daily? Track car? looks good man! Excited to see what you make on what octane fuel!
      Pag Parts - Best Turbo Kit for 1.8Ts
      DUBCLINIC - Best VW/Audi Shop in the South Bay
      BDMotorwerks - Best Customer Service for Parts & Builds
      German Transaxle of America - Best Trans Repair on the West Coast
      1.8T PPT GT3071BB-V2 w/ some upgrades

    16. Member vdub18njp's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 26th, 2009
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      03 GTI 1.8BT GT3071R-71BB
      12-16-2018 02:17 AM #64
      In a world where these motors and cars are considered old and boring.. I'm glad there ares still some crazies out there who still love this stuff!

      Stay spooling my friends!
      Pag Parts - Best Turbo Kit for 1.8Ts
      DUBCLINIC - Best VW/Audi Shop in the South Bay
      BDMotorwerks - Best Customer Service for Parts & Builds
      German Transaxle of America - Best Trans Repair on the West Coast
      1.8T PPT GT3071BB-V2 w/ some upgrades

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