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    Thread: I will not remain quiet any longer.......

    1. Member bzflag's Avatar
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      09-24-2014 01:59 PM #76
      Quote Originally Posted by vwwtchr View Post
      Listen no offense, and you may be a fantastic employee and guy, but the letter was crap plain and simple.


      It answered nothing at all. And to be so disingenuous as to suggest there hasn't been any cutting of staff and program, no cash flow issues, and hasn't paid all it's bills is laughable. What were those lawsuits figments of people's imaginations?

      Yes APR is now cash available, because Mangrove injected capital. And I'm assuming Mangrove would like to see a return on the investment. If someone wants to suggest APR is cash flow positive seperate from lets say the racing programs and jets, then why remove the management as well? Why continue with the downsizing if the core business was doing so well?


      Look we have seen many tuners come and go. All of them suggested that any downsizing was a blip, obvious cuts in R&D were of no concern, and that all was right even as they looked for capital anywhere they could. Maybe APR is different, maybe not.


      But these lame self promoting announcements APR is known for, up to and including the recent "APR is revolutionizing the tuning industry" announcement revealing the oh so amazing ODB flashing announcement is just the latest in a long line of BS press releases. Like "only APR engineers up to OEM standards" wtf? Or the releases touting APR as acknowledged leader in tuning?

      Or how about how APR sh!t talks any other tuner and their accomplishments as meaningless unless APR is there first. The B8 S4 is a perfect example. APR has been behind the curve on that platform for a while yet constantly, that is constantly sh!t talks other tuners who are ahead of them in tuning right now.

      APR has made some great software and hardware, but they have pissed off a lot of people with their arrogance, inability to recognize other tuning companies' accomplishments, and outright deception of their gains.


      Hopefully Mangrove can correct these issues and creat a more professional company.
      This guy gets it.

      This sums up my main beef with APR. There's a reason I don't and haven't had any APR hardware or software on my car in years. They're the local guys right down the road, headquartered in the same city as my alma mater and I absolutely refuse to be associated with them in any way. I want to be proud of the local guys and IMO the guys that were directing the attitude of the company had to go.

      to a change in attitude, Keith included.

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    3. Member
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      09-24-2014 02:02 PM #77
      Meh, I dont know why the hate, I have spend quite a bit of cash on their products, and always had first class service and never had any issues with their stuff.

    4. 09-24-2014 02:13 PM #78
      Quote Originally Posted by GTIMike1.8T View Post
      Former stage 3 customer, and current 2+ customer. Not saying you don't have good products but for a premium price you expect premium service and when a "transparent" company lets the leaked posts tell its customers what the happenings are with said company that is kind of counter productive. I too lived in a Germany for many years the phones work the same you just dial 001 then the US number.
      Time zone.

    5. 09-24-2014 02:17 PM #79
      Quote Originally Posted by bzflag View Post
      This guy gets it.

      This sums up my main beef with APR. There's a reason I don't and haven't had any APR hardware or software on my car in years. They're the local guys right down the road, headquartered in the same city as my alma mater and I absolutely refuse to be associated with them in any way. I want to be proud of the local guys and IMO the guys that were directing the attitude of the company had to go.

      to a change in attitude, Keith included.
      I think the internal communication was referencing the new APR if you will. Not necessarily denying any of the previous dirt mentioned. Public record and all but of course there are multiple sides to every story.

      The point is that APR is improving, not deteriorating. The overall attitude at Opelika HQ is amazingly positive. You should stop by when you have a chance.

    6. Banned A.Wilder's Avatar
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      09-24-2014 02:18 PM #80
      Quote Originally Posted by jszucs View Post
      Thanks for the reply / interaction with us, and internal insight. I'm not knocking it at all. It's a great put together little to no worries little to no hassle middle of the road cover your bases with reliability, driveablity, package. But I can still not get out of my head that it's just a good "starting point" like a base tune. And it did make the car really come alive VS stock. (I might be bias coming from 2 full stand alone cars though)

      I agree it is a can of worms. But it is perfectly doable as its done everyday on dynos all around the world. For customers willing to pay for dyno time and your tuners time to review the data and make changes..... it's a money making opportunity. It also gives reason for your APR dealers to then have dynos in house where other customers and the buyer could see you making power right in front of there eyes. I have not seen another tuner doing this in my area or anywhere around for the audi / VW products; so it would be a huge leg up on the competition. There is one for porsh but they will only do porsh no matter how much I beg / offered them.
      you realize how much more expensive that will make the product, right? individual time spent for each car, individual time of tuning technicians and their hourly rate, time on the dyno at an hourly rate, plus a profit margin = something 99.99% of the customers can't afford.

    7. Member AudiA4_18T's Avatar
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      09-24-2014 02:21 PM #81
      Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
      I think the internal communication was referencing the new APR if you will. Not necessarily denying any of the previous dirt mentioned. Public record and all but of course there are multiple sides to every story.

      The point is that APR is improving, not deteriorating. The overall attitude at Opelika HQ is amazingly positive. You should stop by when you have a chance.
      Keith, why were the CEO and CFO fired? And why did the owners sell to Mangrove if they were in good financial health?

    8. Member Uberhare's Avatar
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      09-24-2014 02:23 PM #82
      Quote Originally Posted by A.Wilder View Post
      you realize how much more expensive that will make the product, right? individual time spent for each car, individual time of tuning technicians and their hourly rate, time on the dyno at an hourly rate, plus a profit margin = something 99.99% of the customers can't afford.
      Not to mention you typically need to have the car physically on site for a custom tune. No way in hell I'd drive from Inland NW to APR headquarters just for a tune.





      [email protected], are there plans to re-enter into auto racing once things settle down from the acquisition?

    9. Member BrewDude's Avatar
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      09-24-2014 02:25 PM #83
      Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
      Its also widely used because when its true, its great, if its not true, well companies still try to bs their way through it.

      As I said, I am not widely publicly known anymore but if you ask around you'll find I don't just follow corporate lines.
      As long as I've know Keith, I will say he is one to think outside the box or go askew of the line set by corporate. However, it's that thinking that allows the company to thrive, regardless of what financial outcome the company is under.

      Let's just hope your job isn't on the line now for posting internal correspondence. I know in my current line of work I'd probably be shot on site.
      Someone's always watching you...whether you know it or not.

    10. Banned SVTDanny's Avatar
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      09-24-2014 02:26 PM #84
      Quote Originally Posted by Uberhare View Post
      Not to mention you typically need to have the car physically on site for a custom tune. No way in hell I'd drive from Inland NW to APR headquarters just for a tune.
      You can easily load a tune, log a few pulls, send in logs, get sent a revised tune, and repeat until everything looks good. It's not a big deal at all and quite common in most of the industry. VW tuning is about 10 years behind everyone else it seems.

    11. Member jamie@vwvortex's Avatar
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      09-24-2014 02:26 PM #85
      This forum is more and more of an embarrassment every day...

    12. Junior Member Kaneda's Avatar
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      09-24-2014 02:27 PM #86
      Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
      This forum is more and more of an embarrassment every day...
      LOL!

    13. Member GTIMike1.8T's Avatar
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      09-24-2014 02:28 PM #87
      Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
      This forum is more and more of an embarrassment every day...
      I heard mangrove is in the market for anything VW/Audi
      Its only game why you heff to be mad

    14. Member jreed1337's Avatar
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      09-24-2014 02:30 PM #88
      Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
      This forum is more and more of an embarrassment every day...
      1+3+3=7

    15. 09-24-2014 02:32 PM #89
      Quote Originally Posted by AudiA4_18T View Post
      Keith, why were the CEO and CFO fired? And why did the owners sell to Mangrove if they were in good financial health?
      They weren't fired. Part of the deal with these kinds of things is often a change in leadership in order to move forward in a different way. Entrepreneurship can sometimes only go so far and needs new leaders to continue the Founders success. The CEO and COO stepped down voluntarily and are still involved. They stand to do better personally for it and I believe the company can achieve its goals more quickly. Not that either of them were bad, they are both very, very good friends of mine and we talk almost daily as it is. We all built a great company and the Founder poured his own resources and heart and soul into APR for 17 years. I'm the last surviving member of Executive Management from the days of old. Our CFO is relatively new and was there pre investment and is there today. It wasn't a "firing". It was a calculated decision on all fronts.

      I explained it on another forum but let's says a "perfect storm" at the sake of sounding cliche happened in the last couple of years where a few calculated risks didn't pan out as intended, due to no fault of their own. The bigger the company gets, the higher the stakes and a few missteps or let downs by other people/companies can have much bigger ramifications. Investment was brought in order to avoid downsizing. Hell, you have to give it to the Founder to find a way to protect the employees and their livelihoods through this. He could have circled the wagons and protected the company through downsizing but chose to pass the baton. Cash injection was the only way for APR to continue to grow. Small businesses operate on shoe strings and bold CEO's push them forward. Without capital partners, you won't often find any company making it to the next leap. That's what we are trying to do today.

      My point, is regardless of how you look at the occurrences of the past two years, its been rectified in a way that benefits EVERYONE. Nobody has lost out on this deal as of yet.
      Last edited by [email protected]; 09-24-2014 at 02:40 PM.

    16. 09-24-2014 02:37 PM #90
      Quote Originally Posted by BrewDude View Post
      As long as I've know Keith, I will say he is one to think outside the box or go askew of the line set by corporate. However, it's that thinking that allows the company to thrive, regardless of what financial outcome the company is under.

      Let's just hope your job isn't on the line now for posting internal correspondence. I know in my current line of work I'd probably be shot on site.
      Thank you. Its all about the clients, friends, family, staff and doing the right thing. Follow your moral compass and you can never do wrong. Nice guys sometimes finish last as they say but at least I'll have finished with my head up.

      So far, I'm good. I'm sure there were quite a few, "WTF is Keith doing" when they woke up in Alabama this morning, but right now, all is good.
      Last edited by [email protected]; 09-24-2014 at 02:42 PM.

    17. Member l88m22vette's Avatar
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      09-24-2014 02:39 PM #91
      I'm divided here. On one hand, it is good a reputable company that makes quality parts is going to stick around, the amount of wannabes putting out cloned or subpar crap parts is nuts, at least the recession knocked a bunch out of commission. APR is definitely not one of those. However, this forum and the reactions are not an embarrassment, we are only positing based on what we know. Keith is sticking his neck out by posting this without permission so he obviously is trying to keep people informed, but a lot of us have worked in corporate America at one point or another. We know what a management letter sounds like, and we know those letters usually amount to not a lot (using a paragraph of fancy language to convey a sentence). I hope APR sticks around and prospers, but at the same time the aforementioned lip service will only hold water in the future once the company ship is righted.

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      09-24-2014 02:42 PM #92
      Quote Originally Posted by A.Wilder View Post
      you realize how much more expensive that will make the product, right? individual time spent for each car, individual time of tuning technicians and their hourly rate, time on the dyno at an hourly rate, plus a profit margin = something 99.99% of the customers can't afford.
      Are you kidding me? You can drop 40K on a car and not another 2K for dyno and tuning time? The only cost killer for the company / tuner side is the buy of the dyno and that's a one time expense. Also if your a "real" tuner you would be able to tune multiple cars, from multiple companies not just add cookey cutter parts and tunes. I am new to VW and I'm quickly getting the picture that it's young kids spending momey and daddys money and not someone like me who can build a car from the ground up, fab and weld my own manifolds ECT, and this is 99% of the reason for the bolt on and go parts no real custom innovation. My real hang up (and this is not just limited to APR stuff but more to this segment of cars) is the prices on some stuff. My god for what they want for a T3 footprinted manifold I could make one for 1/4 the price even paying myself 100 and hour. Or for a catch can setup are you freaking kidding for 300 I can have a powered 100% vacuum setup from summit, which is WAY better then using a PCV / check valve setup.

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      09-24-2014 02:43 PM #93
      I've only learned of all of these discussions in the last 48 hours and tried to read the bunch of threads across multiple forums on it. I have a ton of APR stuff on my car, most of which works well, with one item that is a nightmare. But even I have to ask...

      Why all the conspiracy theories about APR? Too many people are investing too much time in trying to discredit a company... for no reason. Buy their product, or don't buy their product, you've got rights. Has the Fall TV schedule not started yet or something? Or do we really think this is bigger than the illuminati?

    20. 09-24-2014 02:45 PM #94
      Quote Originally Posted by l88m22vette View Post
      I'm divided here. On one hand, it is good a reputable company that makes quality parts is going to stick around, the amount of wannabes putting out cloned or subpar crap parts is nuts, at least the recession knocked a bunch out of commission. APR is definitely not one of those. However, this forum and the reactions are not an embarrassment, we are only positing based on what we know. Keith is sticking his neck out by posting this without permission so he obviously is trying to keep people informed, but a lot of us have worked in corporate America at one point or another. We know what a management letter sounds like, and we know those letters usually amount to not a lot (using a paragraph of fancy language to convey a sentence). I hope APR sticks around and prospers, but at the same time the aforementioned lip service will only hold water in the future once the company ship is righted.
      I think its a case of "time will tell". I think things are better every day. I certainly don't see any reason for alarm, hence my inability to control myself any longer.

    21. Member jreed1337's Avatar
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      09-24-2014 02:47 PM #95
      Quote Originally Posted by jszucs View Post
      Are you kidding me? You can drop 40K on a car and not another 2K for dyno and tuning time? The only cost killer for the company / tuner side is the buy of the dyno and that's a one time expense. Also if your a "real" tuner you would be able to tune multiple cars, from multiple companies not just add cookey cutter parts and tunes. I am new to VW and I'm quickly getting the picture that it's young kids spending momey and daddys money and not someone like me who can build a car from the ground up, fab and weld my own manifolds ECT, and this is 99% of the reason for the bolt on and go parts no real custom innovation. My real hang up (and this is not just limited to APR stuff but more to this segment of cars) is the prices on some stuff. My god for what they want for a T3 footprinted manifold I could make one for 1/4 the price even paying myself 100 and hour. Or for a catch can setup are you freaking kidding for 300 I can have a powered 100% vacuum setup from summit, which is WAY better then using a PCV / check valve setup.
      sounds like you are ready to start your own company and compete with APR then.
      1+3+3=7

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      09-24-2014 02:47 PM #96
      Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
      This forum is more and more of an embarrassment every day...
      I'm sorry which part is the embarrassment? The part where people ask what direction APR is headed in given that it is the customer who has to decide if a company is viable before spending their money. The part where people point out that the company was clearly not profitable on a core level, because independent of the race team and jet, they had been downsizing their operations? Or was it the part where people pointed out that other previous tuners have issued similar public declarations only to go out of business? Or was it the part where people brought up legitimate criticisms of APR that may have helped lead to the financial problems APR faced?


      Were those the things that were embarrassing? Because to me those are just pointing out relevant issues potential consumers should be aware of since clearly APR was not a financially sound company, and now there will be a stronger push for profitability since Mangrove has skin in the game, and will want to see a return on that investment.

    23. 09-24-2014 02:48 PM #97
      Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
      This forum is more and more of an embarrassment every day...
      Thanks for not banning me.

    24. Member bzflag's Avatar
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      09-24-2014 02:48 PM #98
      Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
      I think the internal communication was referencing the new APR if you will. Not necessarily denying any of the previous dirt mentioned. Public record and all but of course there are multiple sides to every story.

      The point is that APR is improving, not deteriorating. The overall attitude at Opelika HQ is amazingly positive. You should stop by when you have a chance.
      Like I said, I'm rooting for APR and I hope things really do get turned around. But you guys have a long way to go to rebuild my trust and until you consistently demonstrate that things have truly changed, my opinion won't.

      Ugh, I sound like a disappointed parent.

    25. Member jreed1337's Avatar
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      09-24-2014 02:50 PM #99
      Quote Originally Posted by bzflag View Post
      Like I said, I'm rooting for APR and I hope things really do get turned around. But you guys have a long way to go to rebuild my trust and until you consistently demonstrate that things have truly changed, my opinion won't.

      Ugh, I sound like a disappointed parent.
      rebuild your trust for what? honestly I'm just asking. what has happened internally in the company that made you say, i don't trust that company.

      they provide quality tunes and parts for standard market prices.

      who cares about their freaking jet and new ownership. so much speculation and **** tossing, for what?
      1+3+3=7

    26. Member intonation's Avatar
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      09-24-2014 02:53 PM #100
      Quote Originally Posted by BostonB6 View Post
      You post a document marked privileged and confidential on an open forum? Either you're a schill for the CEO or you should be looking for a new job because if I did that, I'd be fired within the day.



      Holy **** at my company he would get hosed for doing this in a HEARTBEAT!

      And that said, this is the typical bull**** spouted by the new owner in every acquisition. And the topmost, most recent reference he has in the industry was from 2002?

      I worked for Motorola Mobility when Google bought us a few years ago. They said similar things. Then they proceeded to break up the company and lay off 75% of us within 2 years. I did not lose my job, no sour grapes here, just saying having been through several acquisitions... Most the things they will say and write about the deals and the future are 100% bull**** . Don't buy into it this quickly, don't be that naive. They want you to stay for the short term because they want you to leave only on their terms.
      Last edited by intonation; 09-24-2014 at 03:01 PM.

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