VWVortex.com - valve spring compressor question
Username or Email Address
Do you already have an account?
Forgot your password?
  • Log in or Sign up

    VWVortex


    Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
    Results 1 to 25 of 31

    Thread: valve spring compressor question

    1. Member matty kirk's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 2nd, 2007
      Location
      Eugene, OR, transplanted from Eastern PA
      Posts
      902
      Vehicles
      1990 VW Cabriolet 1.8L 2H head/2L ABA block,02J 5sped,Digi2- 1981 Ford E-150, 300 6, 4 on the floor
      03-27-2015 03:02 PM #1
      So, I bought a valve spring compressor for a head I'm working on. However, I ran into some problems fitting it.

      Here you see that the cap studs interfere and even if they didn't, the slots in the tool aren't long enough to fit around the valve cover studs.


      This is the only way I could fit it, but the shoulder on the cap stud prevents the tool from resting evenly.



      I've been told to file out the slot so it will fit around the shoulder of the stud, but that won't allow me to secure it on that side. Also, I'm of the mind that maybe altering brand new tools shouldn't be necessary. Am I doing it wrong? There was also a bunch of hardware that came with the tool, not sure what that's for. I have no experience with this tool, so when it was less than straightforward, I figured I better get some input. Thanks.
      Even a blind squirrel finds a nut in the dark, sometimes.

    2. Remove Advertisements
      VWVortex.com
      Advertisements
    3. Member tolusina's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 18th, 2004
      Location
      313
      Posts
      11,868
      Vehicles
      '95 Ranger, '71 Mercier Fixie
      03-27-2015 07:09 PM #2
      Configure it like in your second photo, stack a few flat washers over the shoulder of each stud.
      In use, the side attached to the smaller studs should face towards you.
      Quote Originally Posted by kamzcab86
      I hate reading: "But I bought this car for $500 and don't want to put another dime into it."
      ____(hey, it's VW AND it's electrical, what's not to fail?) neoBentley+



    4. Member CajunSpike's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 11th, 2009
      Location
      New Orleans, LA
      Posts
      4,783
      Vehicles
      91 Burgundy Etienne(2), 06 Jetta 2.5, 08 GTI 2.0T FSI
      03-27-2015 08:05 PM #3
      Gawd I hate it when I screw up. Just bought an over the top valve spring compressor hoping to change the valve stem seals. Then I look at the pic posted here that shows the valves are so buried in the head that the tool I bought...simply won't work. Neither will the other compressor tool I have...


      arghhh....


      Only consolation is that I found this out BEFORE I tore the car apart..

    5. Member Jeremy_Bentham's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 10th, 2012
      Location
      Calgary , AB
      Posts
      557
      Vehicles
      89 turbocharged/bike carb'd Golf Cabrio
      03-27-2015 11:09 PM #4
      I used the same tool to change my valve springs over to hd, you gotta play with it a bit... but it does work!!

    6. Member matty kirk's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 2nd, 2007
      Location
      Eugene, OR, transplanted from Eastern PA
      Posts
      902
      Vehicles
      1990 VW Cabriolet 1.8L 2H head/2L ABA block,02J 5sped,Digi2- 1981 Ford E-150, 300 6, 4 on the floor
      03-28-2015 07:09 PM #5
      Totally worked. Thanks guys.
      Even a blind squirrel finds a nut in the dark, sometimes.

    7. Member
      Join Date
      Jun 25th, 2012
      Location
      Houston TX
      Posts
      385
      Vehicles
      1993 Cabriolet / 2012 Golf R
      05-08-2015 04:37 PM #6
      Just came across this exact same problem! Guess I will have to work with it a bit more

    8. Member
      Join Date
      Jun 25th, 2012
      Location
      Houston TX
      Posts
      385
      Vehicles
      1993 Cabriolet / 2012 Golf R
      05-08-2015 11:13 PM #7
      so out of interest is there one of these that actually does fit our cars?

      I managed to make it but it would have been a lt more pleasant with one that fits

    9. Member tolusina's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 18th, 2004
      Location
      313
      Posts
      11,868
      Vehicles
      '95 Ranger, '71 Mercier Fixie
      05-09-2015 07:05 AM #8
      Here's one made out of hardware store stuff, a drill, hacksaw and tape measure, looks fine to me......
      http://www.pureluckdesign.com/vw/vsc/index.htm

      Here's one from Assenmacher.....
      http://www.asttool.com/detail_page.p...VW%20541-1%20A




      But that's only part of it, also required is the support.......
      http://www.asttool.com/detail_page.php?tool_number=2036




      And, don't forget the valve stem seal installer......
      http://www.asttool.com/detail_page.php?tool_number=3365


      These seal installers are very nice in use, never ever boogered up a seal with one.

    10. Member matty kirk's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 2nd, 2007
      Location
      Eugene, OR, transplanted from Eastern PA
      Posts
      902
      Vehicles
      1990 VW Cabriolet 1.8L 2H head/2L ABA block,02J 5sped,Digi2- 1981 Ford E-150, 300 6, 4 on the floor
      05-29-2015 12:27 PM #9
      I'm going to turn this into my head rebuild thread. I've been picking away at this head a little at a time, and I'm at the point where everything is out but the guides. I'm going to be tapping these out with a drift, and I've done some reading which suggests heating the head prior. They suggested a dishwasher, however, this is not an option for me. I'm wondering if I can use a propane torch to heat the area around each guide. I would imagine so, but I figure it doesn't hurt to ask. Thanks.
      Even a blind squirrel finds a nut in the dark, sometimes.

    11. Member tolusina's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 18th, 2004
      Location
      313
      Posts
      11,868
      Vehicles
      '95 Ranger, '71 Mercier Fixie
      05-29-2015 01:56 PM #10
      My valve guide tool set.


      Top is hardware store pipe, 5/16" all thread, double nuts, washers and a couple nut. Better to use Grade 8 or hardened washers.
      This is the guide remover, it's a puller.
      Start by tapping 5/16" threads into the top of the guide, operation should be self explanatory from there.
      Yup, it is tedious cutting those threads.
      All threads should be well greased.

      Guide drifts that pound the guides out from the port side will sometimes mushroom the guide somewhat which makes removal difficult to impossible.
      Pulling the guides avoids all that.

      I've never heated a head prior to guide removal even when heating was readily available.
      Based on witnessing a number of GM heads that had been run somewhat hot, valves stuck afterwards possibly due to contraction following heat, I'd be reluctant to try heating a head for guide removal.

      Another alternative, a less desirable one in my opinion, is to tap threads as above, screw in a bolt, drift and hammer on the bolt from the port side.
      ---
      I did put guides in a freezer prior to installation a number of times, found that EVERY time I did that I had to follow up with reaming to get the guides back to size. I went back to installing with head and guides at room temperature, didn't have to ream any more.
      If you find cutting threads into guides tedious, wait until you ream a set.

      Center tool in the pic is a guide installation drift, can be hammered or pressed. Do lube the O.D. of the guide prior to installation.
      ---
      Bottom tool is a VW 253 A, a Go- No Go gauge to quickly determine if a guide's I.D. is big enough and not too big.
      I've had these tools since my Air Cooled days.
      I see in Bentley P. 3-23 Fig. 4-22 the guide itself is no longer measured, rather the play at the head of a new valve, stem flush with the end of the guide.





      .

    12. Member matty kirk's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 2nd, 2007
      Location
      Eugene, OR, transplanted from Eastern PA
      Posts
      902
      Vehicles
      1990 VW Cabriolet 1.8L 2H head/2L ABA block,02J 5sped,Digi2- 1981 Ford E-150, 300 6, 4 on the floor
      05-29-2015 06:38 PM #11
      Wait. This is starting to sound like work...

      Great info. Thanks very much.
      Even a blind squirrel finds a nut in the dark, sometimes.

    13. Member matty kirk's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 2nd, 2007
      Location
      Eugene, OR, transplanted from Eastern PA
      Posts
      902
      Vehicles
      1990 VW Cabriolet 1.8L 2H head/2L ABA block,02J 5sped,Digi2- 1981 Ford E-150, 300 6, 4 on the floor
      06-01-2015 09:14 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by tolusina View Post
      My valve guide tool set.


      Top is hardware store pipe, 5/16" all thread, double nuts, washers and a couple nut. Better to use Grade 8 or hardened washers.
      This is the guide remover, it's a puller.
      Start by tapping 5/16" threads into the top of the guide, operation should be self explanatory from there.
      Yup, it is tedious cutting those threads.
      All threads should be well greased.

      Guide drifts that pound the guides out from the port side will sometimes mushroom the guide somewhat which makes removal difficult to impossible.
      Pulling the guides avoids all that.

      I've never heated a head prior to guide removal even when heating was readily available.
      Based on witnessing a number of GM heads that had been run somewhat hot, valves stuck afterwards possibly due to contraction following heat, I'd be reluctant to try heating a head for guide removal.

      Another alternative, a less desirable one in my opinion, is to tap threads as above, screw in a bolt, drift and hammer on the bolt from the port side.
      ---
      I did put guides in a freezer prior to installation a number of times, found that EVERY time I did that I had to follow up with reaming to get the guides back to size. I went back to installing with head and guides at room temperature, didn't have to ream any more.
      If you find cutting threads into guides tedious, wait until you ream a set.

      Center tool in the pic is a guide installation drift, can be hammered or pressed. Do lube the O.D. of the guide prior to installation.
      ---
      Bottom tool is a VW 253 A, a Go- No Go gauge to quickly determine if a guide's I.D. is big enough and not too big.
      I've had these tools since my Air Cooled days.
      I see in Bentley P. 3-23 Fig. 4-22 the guide itself is no longer measured, rather the play at the head of a new valve, stem flush with the end of the guide.





      .
      Some questions. What is the length and diameter of the pipe there?
      I went out today and assembled all the necessary components for the puller. I bought a 3/4'' x 1' section of pipe which will need to be cut down. Wanting to make sure that this is at least a correct start.
      Even a blind squirrel finds a nut in the dark, sometimes.

    14. Member tolusina's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 18th, 2004
      Location
      313
      Posts
      11,868
      Vehicles
      '95 Ranger, '71 Mercier Fixie
      06-01-2015 11:27 PM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by matty kirk View Post
      Some questions. What is the length and diameter of the pipe there?
      I went out today and assembled all the necessary components for the puller. I bought a 3/4'' x 1' section of pipe which will need to be cut down. Wanting to make sure that this is at least a correct start.
      1st, there's (at least) one typo in my post above, 'couple nut' should be 'coupler nut'.
      Been a long time since I built that set, I don't recall any dimensions as critical.
      The pipe only needs to be long enough to to receive the full length of a guide, the threaded rod long enough to reach through the pipe and into the guide while allowing space for the nuts.
      All that said, I just measured, pipe is 5", threaded rod is 10".


      Threading the guides is the tricky and critical part.

      1st, do use some sort of light lubricant (no, not WD40, it's not lube it's a Water Dispersant), most hardware stores carry a specific cutting oil.

      Forget a ratchet, there's too much reversing of direction to do. A "Tee" handle is best at least for starting your thread cutting straight, switch to a short (8" or so) 3/8" drive breaker bar for speed once thread direction is established.
      A starting tap will do for the whole job here, no need for intermediate or finishing versions.

      Notice the starter tap begins by reaming, starts actually cutting threads a few turns in, cuts to full thread depth about 6 turns in.

      It's that reaming and first threads that require your full attention, you must be as straight as possible as all other threads will follow the same course.
      As soon as the tap has a good bite and can stay put by itself, STOP. Step back and eyeball from multiple directions as best you are able for straightness and trueness. If you are crooked at the start, by the end you'll cut through the guide and into the guide bore in the head on one side, your threaded rod will grab the head, guide will go nowhere.
      If you do go crooked, stop if/when you see aluminum chips, threaded rod then goes in shallow enough to miss grabbing the head.

      It sounds complex and scary, it is not, just pay attention to details, it'll come out fine.

      Once the tap has a bite and you're cutting full depth threads comes the tedious back and forth part. Cut a quarter turn, stop and reverse to break loose the chips you've just cut, back in that quarter and a quarter or so more, repeat repeat repeat and repeat repeating.

      Cut at least an inch or so deep. Best to cut all the way through which will partially thin and weaken the guide walls making extraction easier.

      I'd leave the steel lower valve spring seat in place while extracting guides to protect the aluminum head.

      You will be so chuffed with yourself once all guides are out, here's your "Way To Go!!" and "AttaBoy" in advance.
      --


      Exhaust guides typically wear a lot more than intakes.
      Way back in the Air Cooled days when the most common catastrophic engine failures were due to broken exhaust valve heads on account of sloppy exhaust valve guides, far more often than not intake guides were left alone, only exhausts were changed.
      See Bentley 3-23 Fig. 4-22, do that. I know, you probably don't have a dial indicator, don't fret. Compare the feel of the intakes and exhausts. I suspect you'll find the exhausts quite loose and rattly, the intakes feeling like a nice slip fit.
      Use a tape measure or a carpenter's square and a buddy if you'd like to measure.
      And maybe you want to change them all just because now is a good time, a completely valid reason.

      I've never given any though to an alternative guide installer as I've had the one shown above for so long. I'm at a loss coming up with a substitute suggestion now.
      --

      You 100% NEED to cut the valve seats in the head once the guides are in.
      Intake valves can most often be cut and re-used, don't even think about re-using exhaust valves.
      Out of my element for a bit here, it's my understanding that seats in the head cut with abrasive stones need lapping.
      Back in my element, I always had Neway cutters available, those seats did not need lapping, at least not once I switched from adjustable to solid pilots.
      https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#s...0seat%20cutter

      Lapped or not, check EVERY valve and seat pair with bluing prior to installing stem seals and springs.
      You'll need a machinist to cut valves and seats.
      Lapping valves is another of those cool things that will leave you chuffed, but if bluing says lapping isn't needed, don't lap.

      Bentley Page 3-23, chart on the left side has valve length specs.
      Notice the length difference between JH mechanical and JH hydraulic.
      Used to be (I don't know if 'still') replacement valve 0.5 mm shorter than standard spec. These were sometimes needed to compensate for valve heads 'sinking' into the combustion chamber resulting in the tip of the valve stem extending closer to the camshaft.
      This additional assembled valve height could and did sometimes prevent proper valve clearance adjustment with shims, the needed shim(s) were simply outside the range of those available.
      I do not know nor have an opinion whether assembled valve height can become as issue with hydraulic lifters or not.
      A machinist can easily trim the tip of the valve stem(s), hardness is a non-issue with bucket type lifters.
      Carquest and/or Advance Auto Parts should be able to get these shorter valves if needed and still available through their Worldpac corporate affiliation.
      --


      In your head gasket set should be a full set of stem seals, hopefully they are green Viton, should be the only ones still available. If they are black, toss them, get green.
      Also in the HG set should be (usually only) two valve stem seal protectors. They're typically mostly clear plastic (maybe cellophane? dunno) sleeves rounded on one end with a hole in the rounded end, often with a (green?) stripe.
      You really really want these in place over the keeper grooves as you install stem seals. There's an implication here that valves go in before seals are installed, do not install the stem seals before the valves.
      These protectors are rather delicate, treat then gently and they'll last long enough to complete the job, maybe a little longer.

      I'd sure appreciate photos of these seal protectors to save a thousand words in the future, both loose and in use would be great.
      Grab a hold of this seal protector concept, it's very useful for many other types of seal installations.
      Here's my saved set of freebie and generic seal protectors made out of pop bottles, plastic oil and additive containers etc..

      This set makes seal installation of crank, cam, trans and other seals so easy they almost install themselves.
      I simply wrap one of these around any sharp bits on the end of a shaft, let it go a little conical if it wants, it'll straighten itself as it needs.







      .

    15. Member matty kirk's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 2nd, 2007
      Location
      Eugene, OR, transplanted from Eastern PA
      Posts
      902
      Vehicles
      1990 VW Cabriolet 1.8L 2H head/2L ABA block,02J 5sped,Digi2- 1981 Ford E-150, 300 6, 4 on the floor
      06-03-2015 06:46 PM #14
      So, another question. When I went to insert the 5/16 allthread (no threads cut, just generally checking),and it went all the way through and could be moved a small amount from side to side. That does not seem to correct me. Is it? Or, do I need to get the next size up?
      Even a blind squirrel finds a nut in the dark, sometimes.

    16. Member tolusina's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 18th, 2004
      Location
      313
      Posts
      11,868
      Vehicles
      '95 Ranger, '71 Mercier Fixie
      06-03-2015 08:17 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by matty kirk View Post
      ...... do I need to get the next size up?
      Oh carp. Sorry. You know I'm old, right? Hope I didn't cause you to spend to much needlessly.
      --
      Anyway, guide bore is 8mm, made sense in my senility to cut 8mm threads, 8mm is pretty close to 5/16", yadda yadda, doesn't work that way.
      Equivalence figures;
      8mm = .315".
      5/16" = 0.3125" = 7.95mm
      ---
      So I measured actual dimensions of the tool depicted above, threads are .363" (9.28mm) in diameter, 16 threads per inch.

      Chart on
      http://www.shender4.com/thread_chart.htm
      Shows that for 5/16-18 = 0.3125". Drill for brass 0.2570" As you've found, that can't work, guide bore is bigger than that.

      Next size up, chart shows 3/8-16 = 0.3750". Drill for brass 0.3125".
      Guide bore is within a very few thousandths, 3/8" - 16 tpi is indeed the size to use.
      ---
      I recalled another unintentional omission from the lengthy post above. Best I recall I had to grind the shank of the tap some to allow clearance enough to thread all the way through.
      I've looked and looked, can't find so can't photograph it.
      No matter though, if your tap looks like those shown above, the shank is smaller in diameter than the threads it cuts, you can keep cutting deep.
      Alternately, cut as deep as the tap allows, call it good enough.

      This is the type of tap that will need the shank ground down to allow through threading.....




      .

    17. Member matty kirk's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 2nd, 2007
      Location
      Eugene, OR, transplanted from Eastern PA
      Posts
      902
      Vehicles
      1990 VW Cabriolet 1.8L 2H head/2L ABA block,02J 5sped,Digi2- 1981 Ford E-150, 300 6, 4 on the floor
      06-03-2015 08:43 PM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by tolusina View Post
      Oh carp. Sorry. You know I'm old, right? Hope I didn't cause you to spend to much needlessly.
      --
      Anyway, guide bore is 8mm, made sense in my senility to cut 8mm threads, 8mm is pretty close to 5/16", yadda yadda, doesn't work that way.
      Equivalence figures;
      8mm = .315".
      5/16" = 0.3125" = 7.95mm
      ---
      So I measured actual dimensions of the tool depicted above, threads are .363" (9.28mm) in diameter, 16 threads per inch.

      Chart on
      http://www.shender4.com/thread_chart.htm
      Shows that for 5/16-18 = 0.3125". Drill for brass 0.2570" As you've found, that can't work, guide bore is bigger than that.

      Next size up, chart shows 3/8-16 = 0.3750". Drill for brass 0.3125".
      Guide bore is within a very few thousandths, 3/8" - 16 tpi is indeed the size to use.
      ---
      I recalled another unintentional omission from the lengthy post above. Best I recall I had to grind the shank of the tap some to allow clearance enough to thread all the way through.
      I've looked and looked, can't find so can't photograph it.
      No matter though, if your tap looks like those shown above, the shank is smaller in diameter than the threads it cuts, you can keep cutting deep.
      Alternately, cut as deep as the tap allows, call it good enough.

      This is the type of tap that will need the shank ground down to allow through threading.....




      .
      OK, no problem. All it really cost me was a cuss word uttered (with the words "What the" in front of it), and another trip to the hardware store. Stack this against all the priceless info you have given me, and well, y'know. I think I'll keep the one I made at 5/16 just to have it.

      Anyway, after posting I went to the hardware store and picked a 3/8 - 16 all thread and all the goodies that go with it, plus appropriate tap. As I type this, I have successfully managed to pull one guide. I'm 1/8th of the way there.

      Another quick question, I pulled the guide with the lower seat in place. Came out with relative ease, although, now the seat is all whacked in the center and no longer moves freely as it did before the guide was pulled. It also doesn't seem to want to come out? Any thoughts on what happened, and what to do??
      Even a blind squirrel finds a nut in the dark, sometimes.

    18. Member tolusina's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 18th, 2004
      Location
      313
      Posts
      11,868
      Vehicles
      '95 Ranger, '71 Mercier Fixie
      06-03-2015 09:45 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by matty kirk View Post
      OK, no problem.......
      ..........now the seat is all whacked in the center......
      Thanks for the gracious understanding, now for me to grovel for yet more.........

      1st, don't do that again.
      The only thing I can immediately think of involves pipe or a socket of the same OD as the outer spring and a hammer.
      Keep in mind that the seat is a non-moving part once assembled, a minor deformity should not be an issue.
      ---
      For the installer I came up with a maybe solution.
      I measured the pilot shaft of the installer drift shown above as 0.312" (7.96mm)
      5/16" drill rod should be 0.3125" (7.94mm).
      That's close enough that you'll want to trial fit that drill rod into a guide, any sort of force fit is unacceptable.
      If drill rod is a good fit, add a shaft collar and a length of 1/4" pipe to hammer on.
      The drill rod can then pilot the guide true, the shaft collar pushes on the guide's collar.

      I found drill rod at Grainger.....
      http://www.grainger.com/category/dri...FN-k1mZ1z08bod
      and Fastenall.....
      https://www.fastenal.com/products/ra...diameter:390|~

      Shaft collars at Grainger....
      http://www.grainger.com/category/sha...stConfigId%3D6
      and Fastenall...
      https://www.fastenal.com/products?r=...02:^5/16%22$|~

      Both also have drill rod in 19/64" = 0.397" (7.54mm) which seems a bit on the loose side but better than a force fit.




      .

    19. Member matty kirk's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 2nd, 2007
      Location
      Eugene, OR, transplanted from Eastern PA
      Posts
      902
      Vehicles
      1990 VW Cabriolet 1.8L 2H head/2L ABA block,02J 5sped,Digi2- 1981 Ford E-150, 300 6, 4 on the floor
      06-05-2015 12:31 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by tolusina View Post
      Thanks for the gracious understanding, now for me to grovel for yet more.........

      1st, don't do that again.
      The only thing I can immediately think of involves pipe or a socket of the same OD as the outer spring and a hammer.
      Keep in mind that the seat is a non-moving part once assembled, a minor deformity should not be an issue.
      ---
      Again, not a big deal.


      Quote Originally Posted by tolusina View Post
      For the installer I came up with a maybe solution.
      I measured the pilot shaft of the installer drift shown above as 0.312" (7.96mm)
      5/16" drill rod should be 0.3125" (7.94mm).
      That's close enough that you'll want to trial fit that drill rod into a guide, any sort of force fit is unacceptable.
      If drill rod is a good fit, add a shaft collar and a length of 1/4" pipe to hammer on.
      The drill rod can then pilot the guide true, the shaft collar pushes on the guide's collar.

      I found drill rod at Grainger.....
      http://www.grainger.com/category/dri...FN-k1mZ1z08bod
      and Fastenall.....
      https://www.fastenal.com/products/ra...diameter:390|~

      Shaft collars at Grainger....
      http://www.grainger.com/category/sha...stConfigId%3D6
      and Fastenall...
      https://www.fastenal.com/products?r=...02:^5/16%22$|~

      Both also have drill rod in 19/64" = 0.397" (7.54mm) which seems a bit on the loose side but better than a force fit.

      .
      Pretty sure I understand the solution, but not sure I know what the problem is. Why wouldn't the installer drift work if/when installing stock parts?
      Now interestingly enough, I am not planning on using stock stuff.
      Planning on using this: http://techtonicstuning.com/main/ind...roducts_id=117

      Kit uses 7mm instead 8. In which case, you answered my question before I asked it. In which case, Thank you.
      Even a blind squirrel finds a nut in the dark, sometimes.

    20. Member tolusina's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 18th, 2004
      Location
      313
      Posts
      11,868
      Vehicles
      '95 Ranger, '71 Mercier Fixie
      06-05-2015 08:15 PM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by matty kirk View Post
      .......
      Pretty sure I understand the solution, but not sure I know what the problem is. Why wouldn't the installer drift work if/when installing stock parts?......
      Well, it would. I was going on the assumption that that tool is not likely readily available, offered an alternative solution of the sort I'd try if I didn't already have that drift.

      Quote Originally Posted by matty kirk View Post
      .......Now interestingly enough, I am not planning on using stock stuff.
      Planning on using this: http://techtonicstuning.com/main/ind...roducts_id=117

      Kit uses 7mm instead 8. In which case, you answered my question before I asked it. In which case, Thank you.
      Huh? What'd I pre-answer?

    21. Member matty kirk's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 2nd, 2007
      Location
      Eugene, OR, transplanted from Eastern PA
      Posts
      902
      Vehicles
      1990 VW Cabriolet 1.8L 2H head/2L ABA block,02J 5sped,Digi2- 1981 Ford E-150, 300 6, 4 on the floor
      06-05-2015 11:38 PM #20
      Oh, I see. The drift does seem to be readily available.
      http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Valve-G...ool-p/7001.htm
      Aircooled site, but, I swear I found it someplace else, as well.

      The question you pre-answered was that the kit I was planning to use, utilized valves with 7mm stems and guides to match. So, no go on the 8mm drift. Something would need to be invented, and you pretty much told me what that would be before I even considered it.

      Anyway, I got all the guides out today. The head is now totally bare.
      Plus, I took some pictures!!

      Here are the puller(s) I assembled. The one on the right is 3/8 - 16, and the one that proved to be appropriate.


      Here's one of the threads being cut into the guide.


      Here's the puller threaded into guide, and about to be used.


      VIOLA!


      Did I mention I'm working out of a Ford van...

      I used A LOT of oil in the cutting of the threads, and found it somewhat helpful to pull the tap every so often, and clean all the shards out of it, and the guide. This was also a time to check for silver pieces (which I never found). It seemed that really only about a half of the guide needed to be threaded, in order to allow to the tool to effectively pull it. Also, before I started pulling, I oiled the all thread just to minimize friction between it and the coupler nut. Seemed to help. It was cool how you could feel the threads tighten down, and the turning would get hard for a second, and then you could feel the guide break loose.

      Thumbs up all the way, I would have never thought of that. Thank You.

      Now it's time to clean it all up, and verify that it isn't warped. Thanks again.

      Lastly, I wonder if the 5/16 puller could be used in reverse to install new guides. Seems like it would be possible with a few extra hardware bits. Plus, you wouldn't even need to cut threads. Seems like it would work.
      Last edited by matty kirk; 06-06-2015 at 12:23 PM.
      Even a blind squirrel finds a nut in the dark, sometimes.

    22. Member tolusina's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 18th, 2004
      Location
      313
      Posts
      11,868
      Vehicles
      '95 Ranger, '71 Mercier Fixie
      06-08-2015 11:16 AM #21
      Where were we here?

      Quote Originally Posted by matty kirk View Post
      .....I used A LOT of oil in the cutting of the threads, and found it somewhat helpful to pull the tap every so often, and clean all the shards out of it, and the guide. This was also a time to check for silver pieces (which I never found). It seemed that really only about a half of the guide needed to be threaded, in order to allow to the tool to effectively pull it. Also, before I started pulling, I oiled the all thread just to minimize friction between it and the coupler nut. Seemed to help. It was cool how you could feel the threads tighten down, and the turning would get hard for a second, and then you could feel the guide break loose.......
      My posts are often wordy enough, I left out a few minor details that I guessed you'd work out on your own and you did.
      Did you get that feeling of accomplishment I called 'chuffed' above? I bet you did. Cool huh?

      Quote Originally Posted by matty kirk View Post
      ..............Lastly, I wonder if the 5/16 puller could be used in reverse to install new guides. Seems like it would be possible with a few extra hardware bits. Plus, you wouldn't even need to cut threads. Seems like it would work.
      I'm not seeing 5/16" working in a 7mm guide.
      I'm severely disliking the idea of using threaded rod inside of new guides.
      Also, to thread pull the new guides into place, you'd need something to pull against on the irregular surface inside the port, don't like that idea at all either.
      ---
      Nearest drill size to fit loosely in a 7mm guide would be a Letter 'I', I'm not seeing Letter I size drill rod at either Grainger nor Fastenall sites.
      I did find 'I' at Motion Industries' site........
      https://www.motionindustries.com/pro...|I&numItems=10
      OR23 - MOTION INDUSTRIES
      4685 CLOUDBURST WAY
      EUGENE, OR 97402
      Phone: (541) 342-5946
      Fax: (541) 342-1382
      [email protected]
      Today's Hours: 08:00 AM - 05:00 PM
      ---
      On the aircooled.net page you linked above they state......
      "We strongly recommend heating the head and freezing the guide prior to installation (then the guides almost drop right in!)."
      I wrote about that above. Yes indeed they will almost drop right in, sometimes with just finger pressure. The issue I found was that guides needed reaming afterwards, no reaming required when working at room temperature.
      Cool that they still have the old 8mm drift though!
      ---

      I'm almost as anxious as you for you to finish, I figure to link this thread on the neoBentley+.
      I'm especially hoping for decent photos of the valve stem seal protectors before, during and maybe after use.
      They are usually about shredded by the end, they're made just hardy enough to do one job and little more.
      Oh sheet, the set in your HG set will be for 8mm valves, not 7mm. Ask TT about 7mm protectors. TT is so reputable I almost expect your 7mm kit will include them as a matter of course, still can't hurt to inquire.

      "Matty Kirk replaces valve guides in the back of a Ford Van! (cannot be done inside a Dodge, don't even think about trying........)"




      .
      Quote Originally Posted by kamzcab86
      I hate reading: "But I bought this car for $500 and don't want to put another dime into it."
      ____(hey, it's VW AND it's electrical, what's not to fail?) neoBentley+



    23. Member matty kirk's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 2nd, 2007
      Location
      Eugene, OR, transplanted from Eastern PA
      Posts
      902
      Vehicles
      1990 VW Cabriolet 1.8L 2H head/2L ABA block,02J 5sped,Digi2- 1981 Ford E-150, 300 6, 4 on the floor
      06-11-2015 05:01 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by tolusina View Post

      I'm almost as anxious as you for you to finish, I figure to link this thread on the neoBentley+.
      I'm especially hoping for decent photos of the valve stem seal protectors before, during and maybe after use.
      They are usually about shredded by the end, they're made just hardy enough to do one job and little more.
      Oh sheet, the set in your HG set will be for 8mm valves, not 7mm. Ask TT about 7mm protectors. TT is so reputable I almost expect your 7mm kit will include them as a matter of course, still can't hurt to inquire.

      "Matty Kirk replaces valve guides in the back of a Ford Van! (cannot be done inside a Dodge, don't even think about trying........)"




      .
      We are/I am in a kind of a holding pattern at the moment due to monetary issues.
      The head currently being worked on is of the "Hecho en Mexico" variety which I pulled from an early 90s Digi Golf. I'm building it as place holder for the German head currently on the car. For this reason, I'm leaning toward building this one with stock stuff. Again, the money thing. Either way, you can believe I am super anxious to have it done, and will post again as soon as parts/tools have been obtained and work has resumed. Also, I will be sure to take and post many pics of the protectors, as well as other work in progress. Now that you've mentioned neoBentley+, I'll try to include anything relevant, and not just what I think is cool.

      I would wonder if TT has figured a way to install there 7mm guides, as well. Another question I'll be sure to ask when the time comes.
      Even a blind squirrel finds a nut in the dark, sometimes.

    24. Member matty kirk's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 2nd, 2007
      Location
      Eugene, OR, transplanted from Eastern PA
      Posts
      902
      Vehicles
      1990 VW Cabriolet 1.8L 2H head/2L ABA block,02J 5sped,Digi2- 1981 Ford E-150, 300 6, 4 on the floor
      06-26-2015 03:24 PM #23
      Well, I've come into money and I'm looking to get the re-build started. I have the new valve guides and drift ordered. I'll be ordering the rest later. Took the bare head into the machine shop today, and they verified that it was straight. I'll be getting it re-surfaced and having the valve seats worked on. Now, the guy at the shop asked that I bring it back with "a valve or two" for use in the valve seat work.

      Here's where the questions begin.

      In my haste during teardown I pulled the valves and springs out and threw them all in a box. I'm planning on re-placing the exhaust valves, but would like to re-use the intakes if possible. What can be done now that I have no idea which came from where. I know, I know, STUPID.

      Also, do the springs need to remain with the cylinder/valve they came from?

      Can I/Should I install the valve guides before having the above work done? Does it matter?
      Even a blind squirrel finds a nut in the dark, sometimes.

    25. Member tolusina's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 18th, 2004
      Location
      313
      Posts
      11,868
      Vehicles
      '95 Ranger, '71 Mercier Fixie
      06-26-2015 07:20 PM #24
      Have you left off the swap to 7mm valves and guides then? Staying with 8mm?
      ---
      All guides must be in the head prior to seat cutting, the cutter pilot centers in the guide(s).
      Take all 8 valves, he'll be cutting the seat surface of the old intakes.
      ---
      It's the lifters you want back to the same cam lobes if still possible.
      ---
      I'm not recalling nor seeing and references in Bentley regarding keeper differences, spring differences or whether springs are progressive or not.

      I am recalling keeper differences between intakes and exhausts on some engines, no idea which or who's engines I'm recalling that tidbit about.
      You should have 16 keeper halves, lay them all out grooves up and visually compare them, then flip them over cone side up and compare again. They're probably all the same, best to be sure.

      Side by side compare all the springs for free standing height, compare the coil windings, see if they are closer together on one end than the other.
      Again, probably all the same.
      ---
      Bentley 3-23 and 3-24, read all that, take it to the machinist, he might like having it to hand.

      See 3-24 Fig. 4-24 and Table g, dimension 'a'.
      There may be some leeway with this dimension 'a'.
      If, when measured, dimension 'a' will end up too small, the tip of the valve stem can be faced, your machinist knows this already.
      BUT, if the stem tip is faced to get dimension 'a' into spec, check closely that the contours of the bottom of the lifter(s) will have clearance from the assembled spring retainers. The center of the lifter must be the part pressing directly down on the valve stem.

    26. Member matty kirk's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 2nd, 2007
      Location
      Eugene, OR, transplanted from Eastern PA
      Posts
      902
      Vehicles
      1990 VW Cabriolet 1.8L 2H head/2L ABA block,02J 5sped,Digi2- 1981 Ford E-150, 300 6, 4 on the floor
      06-27-2015 08:25 PM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by tolusina View Post
      Have you left off the swap to 7mm valves and guides then? Staying with 8mm?
      ---
      Yes. I will re-build this head stock and reserve the TT performance kit for the German head.
      Even a blind squirrel finds a nut in the dark, sometimes.

    Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •