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    Thread: Why isn't the judging taking serious?? Most be vW savvy

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      07-22-2015 03:34 PM #101
      Quote Originally Posted by P Q View Post
      nope Robbie said he was mod 1 and dark night got 2nd and that white r got first in his class
      U got it all wrong my friend. The white mkv with the shaved bay, and darknight were in supermod, along with the black mkv gli. The gli got first, darknight second, the white Mkv got third.

      Pq can we see pics of ur car?

      As others said, there is a list waterfest posted online of what they expect. I followed that list and the advice of the judges that commented on here. That helped me place 1st. It's a point system, you got to know how to play the game.
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      07-22-2015 03:51 PM #102
      Quote Originally Posted by arismkv View Post
      U got it all wrong my friend. The white mkv with the shaved bay, and darknight were in supermod, along with the black mkv gli. The gli got first, darknight second, the white Mkv got third.

      Pq can we see pics of ur car?

      As others said, there is a list waterfest posted online of what they expect. I followed that list and the advice of the judges that commented on here. That helped me place 1st. It's a point system, you got to know how to play the game.
      Paul isn't complaining bc he didn't win a trophy. The overall discussion here is over the fact that judging is very inconsistent class-to-class dependent on who is judging, with some judges knowing the cars they're looking at and correctly assessing them and other judges who basically just went through the motions without actually following the list. For example, in my class (MK4 supermod, which I got 2nd in), the judge didn't look very carefully at anything and only did a cursory quick look-over at each car, but in others, judges were opening gas caps, checking wheel barrel cleanliness, etc.



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      07-22-2015 04:18 PM #103
      Quote Originally Posted by arismkv View Post
      Pq can we see pics of ur car?

      .
      if you were expecting a **** box then im sorry to disappoint, but I know what I am talking about, this isnt my first rodeo.
      Last edited by P Q; 07-22-2015 at 04:22 PM.
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      07-22-2015 04:26 PM #104
      The judge for the mk6 jetta class showed up and told the owners...... Open all doors, hood, trunk and glove box. He mentioned to us he would do 1 year glove box another year gas cap. He has been judging at Waterfest since WF3.
      He took a quick look at my car after I expressed some concern with the judging. He said he would get someone else or himself to re-judge the car if I wanted to, I told him it wouldn't be necessary as he had been in the sun all day and still needed to judge another class.

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      07-22-2015 04:30 PM #105
      Quote Originally Posted by arismkv View Post
      U got it all wrong my friend. The white mkv with the shaved bay, and darknight were in supermod, along with the black mkv gli. The gli got first, darknight second, the white Mkv got third.

      .
      And I was aware I was wrong because if you continue to read further down the page it was discussed That I admitted I might have been wrong with the earlier assumption. Don't take this as me talk **** about your car or about how clean or not clean it is because that is not what I am doing. The topic at hand here is like Aaron said, judging was not consistent at all
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      07-22-2015 04:31 PM #106
      Quote Originally Posted by P Q View Post
      if you were expecting a **** box then im sorry to disappoint, but I know what I am talking about, this isnt my first rodeo.
      Not the case at all dude. I just like seeing pics, and what cars showed. Didn't get to see many because of waiting forever to be judged, I was too tired and left after the trophy giveaway. Which is why I'll never show again.

      I asked PSU the same question, he obviously wasn't offended by it, because I didn't mean it in any offending way. Posted the competition and his, and in all honesty, his looks much better from what I can see in the pics.
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      07-22-2015 04:37 PM #107
      Agree to disagree but agree that the judging was inconsistent

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      07-22-2015 04:38 PM #108
      Its all good man, most of the time people ask me for a pic of my car its because they assume I have no idea what I am talking, so sorry for getting on the defensive side , my bad. I just get a lot of people who think they know what they are talking about with my car and when I tell them what the deal is they usually end up cus it just hit them light a freight train lol

      there are a lot of cars in multiple classes I and a few other people would have placed better then they did but that wasn't the outcome, nothing we can do at this point
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      07-22-2015 04:44 PM #109
      From all the stories I have heard, the mk3 classes take the cake for the most ****ed up.

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      07-22-2015 04:46 PM #110
      Quote Originally Posted by stevevr6 View Post
      From all the stories I have heard, the mk3 classes take the cake for the most ****ed up.
      They threw a MK4 into the MK3 class, I think it's safe to say it was most definitely the most screwed up one
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      07-22-2015 04:51 PM #111
      we pretty much relive the same stories every year with judging and we are all always seem surprised lol. I guess it shows we all have hope for better things to come but we all get disappointed lmao
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      07-22-2015 04:52 PM #112
      A lot of times based on how they classify your car (another point system from my understanding) depends on where your put and they end up grouping up cars in a class because there's lack of same level cars showing up.

      This has happened to me for the last almost 10 years. I'm never placed In a beetle class anymore.
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      07-22-2015 04:57 PM #113
      Quote Originally Posted by FastAndFurious View Post
      A lot of times based on how they classify your car (another point system from my understanding) depends on where your put and they end up grouping up cars in a class because there's lack of same level cars showing up.

      This has happened to me for the last almost 10 years. I'm never placed In a beetle class anymore.
      Technically you were this year haha. Class 41 is Supermodified Golf/Jetta 4, R32 & New Beetle
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      07-22-2015 04:57 PM #114
      I don't agree with that either. if your car is at a certain level and its you and one other guy (if that) you shouldn't be placed into a more competitive class, because then its not fair for you or put in a less completive class because then its not fair for the guys in the lesser class .
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      07-22-2015 05:04 PM #115
      the audi classes I think are by far the first as far as grouping goes. Mod one youll have everything from a a4 to an r8. might as well put all mk1 up to mk7 vw all in the same class too

      if you they want to group the super mod classes together, example all audis, all vw that I think I am ok with. for one that's what happened with the audis this year and two if you are supper mod then that means you are best of the best so you should be put with everyone. but as far as mod 1 mod 2 go you split those classes up by generation and make. if you happen to be the only b6 s4 cabbrio then so be it, you should be grouped with b5 a4, a6 B6 B7 A8 R8 so on and so on
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      07-22-2015 05:38 PM #116
      Quote Originally Posted by aar0n. View Post
      Technically you were this year haha. Class 41 is Supermodified Golf/Jetta 4, R32 & New Beetle
      Yes at least they are all built on same chasis, a few years ago I was next to a b3 Passat and and one year mk3 jetta go explain that one. Still ended up winning but I don't think it makes sense.
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      07-22-2015 10:28 PM #117
      No matter how you look at it, every participant wants and a lot expect to win at these shows. The former, is exactly what a show participant should strive for...to win. The latter...no one should expect to place. I was one of the judges at the show this year, (2nd year running) and it's not my first go-round with judging. I've been doing it for many years now at numerous shows. It's the same kind of complaining at every single show. Waterfest and H2Oi get the most complaints about judging. And why is that? Because they're two of the largest and most popular water cooled VW & Audi shows in the country.

      This year, so many people didn't clean their cars. There was a ton of dirt all along the seat tracks in majority of the cars I judged. The engine bays weren't clean or prepped. Loose and exposed wires from LED lighting or stereo equipment. Seat backings falling off. Center consoles filled with trash. Trunks not cleaned out. Wooden floors with ill-fitment. Sagging headliners. Stains on carpets and seats. Air tanks with handprints all over the polished finish. One participant even had a small Tupperware container of weed chilling on top of their closed cupholder. (Seriously.) That car, had a lot of smoke odor to it as well. Some people declined to open their hood for us to look at the engine bay because they hadn't even cleaned it. I told them "If you don't open it, it's 0 points out of 15 in the mechanical category because I can't judge what I can't see. Even if it's dirty, 1 point is better than 0."

      The point system is really simple. You have the following criteria:
      Exterior-out of 15 points
      Suspension-out of 15 points
      Interior-out of 15 points
      Cleanliness-out of 15 points
      Display-5 points
      Mechanical-out of 15 points
      Concept/Integrity-out of 20 points.

      I think I'm missing a category, but you get the hint. The points system starts out with 5 being your stock vehicle rolling off of the factory line. Pristine, mechanically sound and ready to go. You gain and lose points from that starting point. So, if your car has a new valve cover, you gain a point or two for it. But, if that valve cover was painted and there are waves in the paint or its peeling up in parts, you may have gained that one point, but you lost it because it doesn't look good. Basically, you think of it in terms of "IF the manufacturer were to make this part for this car...is this how they would have done it and sold it?" So, back to my previous "exposed wires" comment earlier. If the manufacturer would have put a subwoofer in the trunk of the car, would they have left the wire to the amplifier exposed, even if it's running along the crease of the carpet in the trunk neatly? No. They would have hidden that wire under the carpeting and/or fabricated something to hide it.

      So, remember, it's not about how many modifications you have. It's how well they're executed. And clean your cars! If it's visible...CLEAN it! If you can see corrosion on your battery terminals, CLEAN it! If there is a scuff mark on the kickplate, get it removed! If your armrest cloth is loosening, fix it or pin it and hide the pin from visibility. If your floor mats are dirty and you have no vacuum, take your floor mats out!

      Judging is certainly not an easy feat. This year was incredibly intense due to the extreme heat and 14 confirmed judges not showing up for their duties. That left 12 of us to judge 450 cars. If more people would step up and register to judge, it would go much more smoothly and efficiently. Threads like these and negative responses to everything with judging deters people away from wanting to judge at shows. People consistently say they're going to step up and judge next year and I have yet to see that happen with anyone that has stated they're going to do it.

      I have no problems answering anyone's questions regarding judging, but I'm not going to respond to any complaining. I'm too old for that.



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      Last edited by AlyssaC; 07-22-2015 at 10:31 PM.
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      07-22-2015 10:39 PM #118
      Quote Originally Posted by P Q View Post
      we pretty much relive the same stories every year with judging and we are all always seem surprised lol. I guess it shows we all have hope for better things to come but we all get disappointed lmao
      Look up my thread from last year around this time....lol. The judges knew the cars and knew what to look for, I barely had to tell them anything as they where very knowledgeable with the cars in the class.
      The mk3 group was a mis-mas of crap. I was mod 1 with an R swap, and the cabrio next to me was Mod 2 with a regular vr swap. The gti vr6 across from me was in the 2.0L class.
      The groups might also get all messed up because people lie on the registration so they can be in a lower class, so they have a better chance at taking home the hardware.

      Like I mentioned before, I even called Dan who organizes the event and told him I wanted to move up a class because my car is more then Mod 1, but it fell on deaf ears. I wanted to level "the playing field" so we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

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      07-22-2015 10:54 PM #119
      Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaC View Post
      No matter how you look at it, every participant wants and a lot expect to win at these shows. The former, is exactly what a show participant should strive for...to win. The latter...no one should expect to place. I was one of the judges at the show this year, (2nd year running) and it's not my first go-round with judging. I've been doing it for many years now at numerous shows. It's the same kind of complaining at every single show. Waterfest and H2Oi get the most complaints about judging. And why is that? Because they're two of the largest and most popular water cooled VW & Audi shows in the country.

      This year, so many people didn't clean their cars. There was a ton of dirt all along the seat tracks in majority of the cars I judged. The engine bays weren't clean or prepped. Loose and exposed wires from LED lighting or stereo equipment. Seat backings falling off. Center consoles filled with trash. Trunks not cleaned out. Wooden floors with ill-fitment. Sagging headliners. Stains on carpets and seats. Air tanks with handprints all over the polished finish. One participant even had a small Tupperware container of weed chilling on top of their closed cupholder. (Seriously.) That car, had a lot of smoke odor to it as well. Some people declined to open their hood for us to look at the engine bay because they hadn't even cleaned it. I told them "If you don't open it, it's 0 points out of 15 in the mechanical category because I can't judge what I can't see. Even if it's dirty, 1 point is better than 0."

      The point system is really simple. You have the following criteria:
      Exterior-out of 15 points
      Suspension-out of 15 points
      Interior-out of 15 points
      Cleanliness-out of 15 points
      Display-5 points
      Mechanical-out of 15 points
      Concept/Integrity-out of 20 points.

      I think I'm missing a category, but you get the hint. The points system starts out with 5 being your stock vehicle rolling off of the factory line. Pristine, mechanically sound and ready to go. You gain and lose points from that starting point. So, if your car has a new valve cover, you gain a point or two for it. But, if that valve cover was painted and there are waves in the paint or its peeling up in parts, you may have gained that one point, but you lost it because it doesn't look good. Basically, you think of it in terms of "IF the manufacturer were to make this part for this car...is this how they would have done it and sold it?" So, back to my previous "exposed wires" comment earlier. If the manufacturer would have put a subwoofer in the trunk of the car, would they have left the wire to the amplifier exposed, even if it's running along the crease of the carpet in the trunk neatly? No. They would have hidden that wire under the carpeting and/or fabricated something to hide it.

      So, remember, it's not about how many modifications you have. It's how well they're executed. And clean your cars! If it's visible...CLEAN it! If you can see corrosion on your battery terminals, CLEAN it! If there is a scuff mark on the kickplate, get it removed! If your armrest cloth is loosening, fix it or pin it and hide the pin from visibility. If your floor mats are dirty and you have no vacuum, take your floor mats out!

      Judging is certainly not an easy feat. This year was incredibly intense due to the extreme heat and 14 confirmed judges not showing up for their duties. That left 12 of us to judge 450 cars. If more people would step up and register to judge, it would go much more smoothly and efficiently. Threads like these and negative responses to everything with judging deters people away from wanting to judge at shows. People consistently say they're going to step up and judge next year and I have yet to see that happen with anyone that has stated they're going to do it.

      I have no problems answering anyone's questions regarding judging, but I'm not going to respond to any complaining. I'm too old for that.



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      nailed it.
      /thread
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      07-22-2015 11:26 PM #120
      Quote Originally Posted by P Q View Post
      I don't know how that white mk4 got first unless that car wasn't even in his class
      The one with the trailer? And paw prints?

      VW whored it out all over their IG.

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      07-22-2015 11:36 PM #121
      I'll leave this here
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      07-22-2015 11:49 PM #122
      Quote Originally Posted by PSU View Post
      The one with the trailer? And paw prints?

      VW whored it out all over their IG.
      Paw prints won mk3 super mod

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      07-23-2015 12:00 AM #123
      Quote Originally Posted by PSU View Post
      The one with the trailer? And paw prints?

      VW whored it out all over their IG.
      I meant mk5. My mistake but that convo is over as it turns out I had my classes confused
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      07-23-2015 12:05 AM #124
      Wish there was a middle finger emoji for P Q.....
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      07-23-2015 12:08 AM #125
      Quote Originally Posted by stevevr6 View Post
      ...The judges knew the cars and knew what to look for, I barely had to tell them anything as they where very knowledgeable with the cars in the class....
      I happen to have the same two judges as last year and they new my car almost better then I did lol. I just stood there
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