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    Thread: Ferrari Testarossa vs. 512TR. Why such a price difference???

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    1. Member dromanbujak600's Avatar
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      04-01-2016 10:07 PM #1
      Hello everyone,

      I have always been a fan of the late 80's Ferrari Testarossa (esp the single mirror earlier models). I can't really describe why I like these the Testarossa's so much but it's probably due to the engine sound they make. Also, watching Don Johnson driving one in Miami Vice also did it's thing.

      So here is my question. I was recently researching prices on-line and was literally mind blown that you could still find decent examples for under $100k. Why is that? Also, another question. Why are the 90's 512TR's so super expensive??? I mean all of them that are half decent. I don't think I found one for under $200k+ that I remotely liked. Isn't the 512 a literally the same car? Ok, I get it is a improved Testarossa but at 2-3x times the price? Come on....

      Also, has anyone owned one? I know everytime I mention old Ferrari, all I hear is that stupid "cam-belt" or "engine out" stories.

      Thanks,
      David

      Oh, some pictures and sounds:

      Testarossa:


      512TR




      Some sounds in case your Friday is a little un-exciting.

    2. Member daviddepin's Avatar
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      04-01-2016 10:20 PM #2
      It wasn't long ago (less than 2 years) that you could find an early model Testarossa for not much more than $50k.
      "Make it ghetto, make it gangsta."
      -Ron Perlman

    3. Member NoXenons's Avatar
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      04-01-2016 10:28 PM #3
      Wow those look like kit cars!! Dat rear wheel fitment
      "No manual, no care."

      Quote Originally Posted by davewg View Post
      It wasn't just about the top of the dash. Or stroking it. It was just the overall feel inside the cabin. Everything was fine until you looked at the dashboard.

    4. Moderator Harv's Avatar
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      04-01-2016 10:31 PM #4
      Anyone who hasn't see Harry take a Testarossa across Europe is missing out. What a journey.


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      04-02-2016 03:28 AM #5
      7,177 Testarossa were made, but only 2,280 512TRs were made. The F512Ms are even rarer, they only made 500.
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      04-02-2016 07:27 AM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by Ryukein View Post
      7,177 Testarossa were made, but only 2,280 512TRs were made. The F512Ms are even rarer, they only made 500.
      This.

      These days, almost any classic car valuation question needs to consider production numbers.

    7. Senior Member Cousin Eddie's Avatar
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      04-02-2016 10:28 AM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by Ryukein View Post
      7,177 Testarossa were made, but only 2,280 512TRs were made. The F512Ms are even rarer, they only made 500.
      That, and the TR looks absolutely perfect and not nearly as dated even with just the subtle changes it has. It's like the 348 vs the 355. Just a far better design with only subtle changes overall.
      Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
      yes, i am bored by FWD driving dynamics, and anyone who doesn't drive there cars to the limits and the beyond.

    8. Member r_fostoria's Avatar
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      04-02-2016 10:53 AM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by NoXenons View Post
      Wow those look like kit cars!! Dat rear wheel fitment
      So... is there a single model of car that you approve of in all of history, or is literally everything terrible?

    9. Member s-rocc's Avatar
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      04-02-2016 10:58 AM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by NoXenons View Post
      Wow those look like kit cars!! Dat rear wheel fitment
      Track width affects things other than a car's stantz (yo). Perhaps it was done that way for a reason?
      this / is / where / your / sweet / mods / go

    10. Member NoXenons's Avatar
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      04-02-2016 11:18 AM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by r_fostoria View Post
      So... is there a single model of car that you approve of in all of history, or is literally everything terrible?
      Quote Originally Posted by s-rocc View Post
      Track width affects things other than a car's stantz (yo). Perhaps it was done that way for a reason?
      Guys it's just my opinion! No need to get worked up over it!!



      "No manual, no care."

      Quote Originally Posted by davewg View Post
      It wasn't just about the top of the dash. Or stroking it. It was just the overall feel inside the cabin. Everything was fine until you looked at the dashboard.

    11. Member l88m22vette's Avatar
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      04-02-2016 11:34 AM #11
      I was gonna comment on the white 512 but then I saw the white 288 at the end and forgot what I was going to say, thanks NoXenons

    12. Member r_fostoria's Avatar
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      04-02-2016 11:51 AM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by NoXenons View Post
      Guys it's just my opinion! No need to get worked up over it!!
      No, seriously. I genuinely want to know.

    13. Senior Member Son's Avatar
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      04-04-2016 12:39 PM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by NoXenons View Post
      Wow those look like kit cars!! Dat rear wheel fitment
      Not saying it's the case here, but there are regulations that sometimes define how deep the tire sits in the wheel well. There's a certain degree value to both directions from "12 o'clock" within which the tire tread needs to be inside the wheel well.

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      04-04-2016 11:25 AM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by daviddepin View Post
      It wasn't long ago (less than 2 years) that you could find an early model Testarossa for not much more than $50k.
      Yep. Couldn't really give them away but now I've seen some up in the hundreds of thousands, and not 512Ms even. It's gonna be rough when this one bursts.


    15. Senior Member AZGolf's Avatar
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      04-04-2016 11:33 AM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by Robin View Post
      Yep. Couldn't really give them away but now I've seen some up in the hundreds of thousands, and not 512Ms even. It's gonna be rough when this one bursts.
      I'm not sure that's going to happen. There's been an explosion of wealth in Asia and tons of new multi-millionaires and billionaires being made that simply didn't even exist before. There's a limited supply of luxury goods such as classic cars in the world, and yet the demand side (the number of super-wealthy) has exploded. Normally a bubble happens when there's no new wealth, but instead of huge number of the ordinary investors all chasing the same asset class. This time is different: this time the total amount of wealthy people has dramatically increased. New billionaires that simply didn't exist before, rather than the same small pool of them all suddenly chasing one asset class.

      The other thing that widely defines a bubble is borrowing. The last housing crisis was fueled by borrowing. Everybody was borrowing from the person to their left, and doing so in a circle of sorts. Nearly all stock bubbles happen when people get overextended on margin, or multiply their leverage with time-limited options contracts. Classic sports cars are still ultimately not that expensive and are not generally purchased by taking out a 90/10 loan. In fact I'd bet that nearly every single classic car is purchased outright with cash. You simply do not get a bubble in the same way when loans are not involved and there's no time-crunch, in the way that options contracts are time limited.

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      04-04-2016 11:43 AM #16
      Nothing to add except that a local dealer has this mint Testarossa in stock and I want it bad. Price is quite steep at $160k though


      Last edited by e30_miata_lowerit; 04-04-2016 at 11:46 AM.

    17. Member freedomgli's Avatar
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      04-04-2016 11:55 AM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by dromanbujak600 View Post
      Ok, I get it is a improved Testarossa but at 2-3x times the price? Come on....
      Well, it's a Ferrari, so prices are going to seem outrageous no matter what. But it basically boils down to supply and demand. The 512TR and F512M are considered by cognoscenti to be better looking and better driving cars than the Testarossa. That causes them to be in greater demand by the market at large. Add in their more limited supply, and you get higher prices. Ferrari is a car for people who want, rather than need. As such, value is of secondary importance for many would-be buyers. Instead, what is more important is satisfying their lust for a particular car. It's all very emotional, which tends to distort markets even further. And don't forget that many Ferrari owners/ sellers are speculating to a certain degree.

    18. Senior Member Son's Avatar
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      04-04-2016 12:41 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by e30_miata_lowerit View Post
      Nothing to add except that a local dealer has this mint Testarossa in stock and I want it bad. Price is quite steep at $160k though
      I bet they could sell it a lot easier, if they put original wheels on it. Those are far from anything period correct, even, and make you wonder what other mods it has.

    19. Member alleghenyman's Avatar
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      04-04-2016 12:46 PM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by AZGolf View Post
      In fact I'd bet that nearly every single classic car is purchased outright with cash. You simply do not get a bubble in the same way when loans are not involved and there's no time-crunch, in the way that options contracts are time limited.
      Actually they are not all purchased with cash. It's not unusual for multi-million dollar acquisitions to be funded by borrowing arranged by commercial banks. It can make a favorable return on assets with less complex risk than typical hedge fund investments and the same borrowers probably control companies that borrow $1bn at a time, so it's good for maintaining customer relations.

      It's not obvious to me why a Ferrari 250 GTO or Mercedes SSK is worth $10-15,000,000 and why there is a floor of support under such valuations, while $500,000 muscle car valuations were just a fad that collapsed fairly quickly. Rarity, emotions, rich Chinese, sheltering cash from taxes or disclosure, buying into the European upper class all probably have something to do with it, but at a basic level I suspect that some things are really expensive just because we all like to chase our desires.
      Power is knowledge

    20. Member karl_1052's Avatar
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      04-04-2016 01:13 PM #20
      If you do get one, just make sure to park it for the winter.

      "The Sebring is an extraordinary car. Ugly to behold and hateful to drive, it is not cheap, elegant, comfortable, practical, prestigious, clever, economical, luxurious, well designed, well thought out or, if the rental car I drove in America this year is anything to go by, especially well made either." - Jeremy Clarkson

    21. Member bothhandsplease's Avatar
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      04-04-2016 04:23 PM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by daviddepin View Post
      It wasn't long ago (less than 2 years) that you could find an early model Testarossa for not much more than $50k.
      Not quite 2 years ago. However, I dreamed of owning a 512TR when I got out of grad school. They were only about 80-95K at the time and it seemed like a good 5-8 year goal. They're now up to 250-300K for the same condition. That goal is getting pushed out a little.

    22. Senior Member Ryukein's Avatar
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      04-04-2016 07:42 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by Cr4shT3st View Post
      For me, I love the 512M. The 512TR was a weird update.
      I LOVE the 512M.

      Quote Originally Posted by Cr4shT3st View Post
      My pick is an early 85/86 single mirror car.

      Those look so wonky, I love them.

      Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
      Or even the 550 vs the 575. In 25 years, there will be debates about which is more 'classic' Ferrari, I'll wager.
      Oh for sure.

      Quote Originally Posted by H.E. Pennypacker View Post
      While I appreciate any TR, upon knowing that this beauty exists and being in its physical proximity, my heart belongs to she:

      http://www.canepacollection.com/deta...-13505029.html



      That is absolutely stunning.
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    23. Member RS4PD's Avatar
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      04-05-2016 12:04 AM #23
      There are not as many major differences between Testarossa and 512TR as there between the Test/512TR and F512M.

      The M stands for Modificata.... and not just exterior changes which are quite obvious being the projector headlights rather than hidden pop-ups, dual NACA ducts, new front bumper that aped the F355's, 3 piece Speedline wheels, and my favorite difference are the quad round tail lights. Inside it had a new steering wheel, aluminum drilled pedals, and some newer seats.

      The F512M is significantly quicker than the TR (0.3 sec to 60) and this is due to a power bump, but also to the fact that it weighs almost 200 lbs less and revs much quicker.
      The body is lighter because it uses aluminum for the front fenders, rear quarter panels and the engine cover and a glass composite for the front lid

      But under the engine cover is where the most changes are. The M's engine was the lightest of the 5.0L “flat 12” engines, as well as being the most powerful. The weight savings came primarily from a lighter engine casting, forged aluminum pistons, titanium alloy connecting rods and a revised billet crankshaft. The transmission of the F512M was equipped with the same gear ratios, however it featured revised synchro's and a modified shift mechanism to speed up shifting and make it more precise.
      Weight was saved in the suspension as well with aluminum spindle hubs front and rear, aluminum sway bar attachment pieces, new lightweight aluminum shock absorbers and the unique two-piece lightweight wheels. The result of these combined efforts was a reduction of approximately 150 pounds over the previous model.The M has a lightened titanium crankshaft (almost 15lbs lighter from what I've read which is almost unbelievable), titanium connecting rods and different pistons. The compression ratio is 10:4 compared to 10:1 for the TR.

      The engine also sits almost a full inch lower in the M verses the TR. It's an amazing sounding flat-12 with almost 8k redline. I have a Tubi exhaust on mine and it is the best sounding car at WOT that I have ever driven.

      And finally only 500 were made worldwide with only 75 made to US specs.
































    24. Senior Member Ryukein's Avatar
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      04-05-2016 12:11 AM #24
      ^ Thanks for sharing! So stunning
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    25. Member Doug Butabi's Avatar
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      04-05-2016 12:12 AM #25
      I entered this thread to outpour my love for the 512M, and I come to see such a post from you, RS4PD.

      You're the man dude. Wow. ****.

      Nice car man, and great information.

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