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    Thread: We bought a aircooled bus to travel the country in...

    1. Member sirswank!'s Avatar
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      06-07-2016 10:44 PM #76
      Scour thesamba for used good heater boxes, or get j-tubes, but I wouldn't pay more than 200 for nos hbs and 100 for tubes
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    3. Member Zman86's Avatar
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      06-08-2016 07:28 AM #77
      I'll check the dip in the cable tonight, however I wasn't getting any clutch chatter, it just feels cruddy. I'll look into ZDDP additives. The arguments over what oil to run in these are absolutely everywhere, I just kept seeing GTX 20w50 come up with praise in multiple articles. Everyone seems to argue about everything regarding these things...

      Onto the rust





















      Not great, but not terrible. Amazing how good these things look until your under them. We will eventually upgrade to a rust free one or restore this one, but it will do for now.

    4. Member sirswank!'s Avatar
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      06-08-2016 07:36 AM #78
      old VWs are drug smugglers of rust.

      I'd be concerned about this.



      outrigger looks detached.
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    5. Member theprf's Avatar
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      06-08-2016 11:01 AM #79
      Quote Originally Posted by Air and water do mix View Post
      Castro is good, but modern oil no longer has ZDDP in it. ZDDP is mostly zinc and lubricates the lifters. Modern engines all use roller lifters so they could remove the ZDDP, as it coats catalytic converters and they lose efficiency. You can add some back in with Lucas products and it's probably available other ways as well.
      You can always use Aeroshell W80 or W100 . Has ZDPP for the heavily loaded followers in Lycoming air cooled flat-4 engines. At least it did last time I owned a Lycoming powered vehicle. For aero oils the SAE numbered is doubled, hence W100 is actually 20W50 and W80 is actually 15W40.

    6. 06-08-2016 01:48 PM #80
      Just use Brad Penn for oil, it is recommend for aircooled porsches and they have the same flat tappet lifter problem but a whole lot more spring pressure to deal with.

      Airplane oil is setup for use with leaded fuels, LL100 is still way more lead than autogas ever had in it.

      It looks like Brad Penn is under going a brand refactoring, I would double check there additive package.

    7. Banned ChillOutPossum's Avatar
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      06-08-2016 01:50 PM #81
      That rust is substantial

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      06-08-2016 01:54 PM #82
      Agreed that PennGrade 1 (formerly Brad Penn, now PennGrade) is the 'right' choice. I actually sat through a 40-minute presentation earlier this year from one of the engineers and the additive package hasn't changed with the re-brand. It's the same oil, from the same refinery, and the same oil field.

      Actually the PennGrade 1 oil isn't that expensive either, and you can buy it on Amazon. But a reasonable alternative that is dirt-cheap is Shell Rotella heavy duty Diesel truck oil, or Delo 400 Diesel oil. Both have a much higher ZDDP content and are workable in flat-tappet air-cooled engines like my Corvairs, 911, and this bus
      Quote Originally Posted by sosumi on the B6 S4 V8
      It sounds like a giant shotgun and then like a bunch of ground up Yugo's in a cement mixer followed by weeks of silence interspersed by wails from the owner.

    9. Member Zman86's Avatar
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      06-08-2016 02:06 PM #83
      Quote Originally Posted by GoHomePossum View Post
      That rust is substantial
      As far as busses go, it's not actually that bad. It will either be addressed at a later date or we will buy a cleaner bus if we enjoy this one. Unfortunatly, in our price range, this was the best we could afford. These things range in price from a couple grand to 30-40k...

    10. Planters (fasciitis) peanuts. Dang dogg Sold Over Sticker's Avatar
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      06-08-2016 02:09 PM #84
      Quote Originally Posted by Zman86 View Post
      As far as busses go, it's not actually that bad. It will either be addressed at a later date or we will buy a cleaner bus if we enjoy this one. Unfortunatly, in our price range, this was the best we could afford. These things range in price from a couple grand to 30-40k...
      I'm used to E9's. That's not that's bad. It's bad when something structural collapses.
      Driving While Awesome Podcast. Give it a listen.
      Quote Originally Posted by Phillie Phanatic
      SoS - please shoot a message when Brendan & His Retarded Sycophants has another gig. I’ll be there, front row.

    11. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      06-08-2016 02:47 PM #85
      Quote Originally Posted by Draksia View Post
      Just use Brad Penn for oil, it is recommend for aircooled porsches and they have the same flat tappet lifter problem but a whole lot more spring pressure to deal with.

      Airplane oil is setup for use with leaded fuels, LL100 is still way more lead than autogas ever had in it.

      It looks like Brad Penn is under going a brand refactoring, I would double check there additive package.
      Quote Originally Posted by ArmenB View Post
      Agreed that PennGrade 1 (formerly Brad Penn, now PennGrade) is the 'right' choice. I actually sat through a 40-minute presentation earlier this year from one of the engineers and the additive package hasn't changed with the re-brand. It's the same oil, from the same refinery, and the same oil field.

      Actually the PennGrade 1 oil isn't that expensive either, and you can buy it on Amazon. But a reasonable alternative that is dirt-cheap is Shell Rotella heavy duty Diesel truck oil, or Delo 400 Diesel oil. Both have a much higher ZDDP content and are workable in flat-tappet air-cooled engines like my Corvairs, 911, and this bus
      Yep. I'm a big fan of Brad Penn (and now PennGrade 1... I haven't bought any in a while) is the stuff to use. I have it in my sump right now and there are a few quarts at home waiting for the next oil change.


      Quote Originally Posted by Zman86 View Post
      As far as busses go, it's not actually that bad. It will either be addressed at a later date or we will buy a cleaner bus if we enjoy this one. Unfortunatly, in our price range, this was the best we could afford. These things range in price from a couple grand to 30-40k...
      Quote Originally Posted by Sold Over Sticker View Post
      I'm used to E9's. That's not that's bad. It's bad when something structural collapses.
      Yeah, it's not pretty, but it's relatively easy to deal with since you can cut all of that out and there's plenty of structure so that nothing moves. On a car such as the E9 or when doing a Beetle's heater channel everything collapses when you cut out the rust, so you either have to weld reinforcements all over it or have a body jig. This is a simple matter of cutting, welding and painting.
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

    12. Planters (fasciitis) peanuts. Dang dogg Sold Over Sticker's Avatar
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      06-08-2016 02:54 PM #86
      Markos picked up a parts car E9. This is substantial rust to me.



      The bus needs some love, but it's not that bad.
      Driving While Awesome Podcast. Give it a listen.
      Quote Originally Posted by Phillie Phanatic
      SoS - please shoot a message when Brendan & His Retarded Sycophants has another gig. I’ll be there, front row.

    13. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      06-08-2016 03:00 PM #87
      Quote Originally Posted by Sold Over Sticker View Post
      Markos picked up a parts car E9. This is substantial rust to me.
      Heh. Get that engine running, drive over a railroad crossing at normal crossing speeds and watch the front springs launch themselves through the hood!
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

    14. Member Zman86's Avatar
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      06-08-2016 09:46 PM #88
      Diagnosed the inoperative rear dome light tonight. Turned out it didn't work because there's a knob you have to pull on the dash to supply power to the light (found this out after tracing the wiring under the dash to a knob on the right side of the steering column). It wasn't a total waste of time though, since I found this mess and will now be able to fix it.



      Also checked and set the valves, only three were loose, the rest felt perfect. Easiest valve set I've ever done.



      Installed new valvecover gaskets, using Air and Waters advice of glueing down one side and lightly oiling the other. I'll be switching to Permetex ones once I've gone through the pack of cork ones that came with the bus.


    15. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      06-08-2016 09:57 PM #89
      I've never glued a cork one down before, only Fel-Pro ones, so I can't say how it'll come off!
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

    16. Member Zman86's Avatar
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      06-08-2016 10:21 PM #90
      It's actually not glue, my fault for not saying that, but some sort of Permetex gasket sealant. I used it when I resealed the 235 in the Chevy with great results on the cork stuff. I believe I heard about it in one of Barry's threads.

    17. Member Stromaluski's Avatar
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      06-09-2016 08:10 AM #91
      Quote Originally Posted by Zman86 View Post
      I'm having much trouble deciphering all the information regarding heater boxes. Looks like everything under this thing to do with the heating system is rotten/inoperable. We live in Canada, but the bus probably won't be seeing use after October/before May, so not having heat is really not a big issue. One side of the fence is against deleting the heater boxes, the other side for it, what's the opinion here?
      Quote Originally Posted by Zman86 View Post
      The heater fan in the engine bay is missing already, so I'd have to source that. New heater boxes are $500/each
      Quote Originally Posted by Zman86 View Post
      Also checked and set the valves, only three were loose, the rest felt perfect. Easiest valve set I've ever done.

      Those heater boxes look decent in that picture? I'd be tempted to get a cheap, electric fan and some of the heater tubing and hook it up and see what happens. Unless the heater boxes are leaking exhaust into the outer casing, some heat is better than no heat, right? Plus, if it turns out that they're fine, then your only cost is the cost of sourcing the correct heater fan.

    18. Member Zman86's Avatar
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      06-09-2016 09:00 AM #92
      All the piping up to the front is rotten as well, the surrounds for the boxes are rotten, The RS heater cable is rotted off, LS is seized. It's a mess

    19. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      06-09-2016 09:44 AM #93
      Quote Originally Posted by Zman86 View Post
      It's actually not glue, my fault for not saying that, but some sort of Permetex gasket sealant. I used it when I resealed the 235 in the Chevy with great results on the cork stuff. I believe I heard about it in one of Barry's threads.


      Quote Originally Posted by Zman86 View Post
      All the piping up to the front is rotten as well, the surrounds for the boxes are rotten, The RS heater cable is rotted off, LS is seized. It's a mess
      Like Johnny Cash sang... One piece at a time.
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

    20. Member cwescapexlt4x4's Avatar
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      06-09-2016 02:11 PM #94
      Amazing that to the rust novice (like me) that rust isn't "that bad" ... I've wanted a microbus or other aircooled VW but wonder if I have the cajones for it.
      2017 Subaru Forester Touring 2.5i - 2016 Ford Explorer Limited
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    21. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      06-09-2016 02:16 PM #95
      Quote Originally Posted by cwescapexlt4x4 View Post
      Amazing that to the rust novice (like me) that rust isn't "that bad" ... I've wanted a microbus or other aircooled VW but wonder if I have the cajones for it.
      It doesn't take cajones so much as it takes constant maintenance.

      If you want to jump in feel free to pm me.
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

    22. Member WD-40's Avatar
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      06-09-2016 02:57 PM #96
      Quote Originally Posted by Air and water do mix View Post
      Yeah, it's not pretty, but it's relatively easy to deal with since you can cut all of that out and there's plenty of structure so that nothing moves. On a car such as the E9 or when doing a Beetle's heater channel everything collapses when you cut out the rust, so you either have to weld reinforcements all over it or have a body jig. This is a simple matter of cutting, welding and painting.
      Quote Originally Posted by cwescapexlt4x4 View Post
      Amazing that to the rust novice (like me) that rust isn't "that bad" ... I've wanted a microbus or other aircooled VW but wonder if I have the cajones for it.
      Yeah, location is everything with rust. And there is almost always more to it than what you can see.

      Here's what my '73 Super looked like after I started poking at the thin spots... Floor mats and carpeting count as structural members, right?

      Last edited by WD-40; 06-09-2016 at 03:09 PM.

    23. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      06-09-2016 04:48 PM #97
      Quote Originally Posted by WD-40 View Post
      Yeah, location is everything with rust. And there is almost always more to it than what you can see.

      Here's what my '73 Super looked like after I started poking at the thin spots... Floor mats and carpeting count as structural members, right?
      Holy cow! I've never seen something cobbled together like that. That "reinforcement" on the driver's side of the frame head/floor pan is just scary looking!

      You do not want to see pics of the underside of my '66, as you'd be jealous. It was originally from Kansas and as I understand it back then they didn't use salt, just sand. It's far from perfect, but it's in really good shape for an unrestored car that wasn't in the desert southwest.
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

    24. Member Zman86's Avatar
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      06-09-2016 09:25 PM #98
      Ok, so I am massively confused. I've messaged Air and Water, but I'd like to see what the general public thinks as well

      After reading the John Muir guide to setting the valves, I realized I did it completely wrong. Following the directions this time, I set the engine to be at TDC cylinder #1 and removed the valvecover, only to find cylinder one intake valve to be open (everything I've read tells me cyl1 is the forward cyl on the right side). Tracing the spark plug wires finds that what is supposed to be cyl1 on the distributor is actually hooked up to cyl 2. What is supposed to be cyl4 on the distributor has the spark plug wire going to cyl 1. Turning the engine clockwise so that the rotor is pointing at #4 finds cyl1 at TDC.

      This is the distributor pointing at what is currently hooked up as cyl1.

      Last edited by Zman86; 06-09-2016 at 09:30 PM.

    25. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      06-09-2016 10:08 PM #99
      Firstly let me say that I'm surprised to still see the dust cover in there!

      The distributor can be rotated enough that it's off by 90°, so it should be a simple matter of rotating it back and putting the plug wires back on where they're supposed to be. There's a notch in the distributor body on the top edge (where the cap rests) that should be where the rotor is pointing when number 1 is at approximately TDC.

      Wait a minute... Your rotor is pointing to where #4 should normally be. The drive gear must be in wrong. There's a tool to remove it and then it's easy to reinstall. Read up on that in the Miur book, as it should detail that for the Type IV. (I'm far more familiar with the Type I.)
      Last edited by Air and water do mix; 06-09-2016 at 10:10 PM.
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

    26. Member spathotan's Avatar
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      06-09-2016 10:19 PM #100
      Quote Originally Posted by Zman86 View Post
      It's actually not glue, my fault for not saying that, but some sort of Permetex gasket sealant. I used it when I resealed the 235 in the Chevy with great results on the cork stuff. I believe I heard about it in one of Barry's threads.
      My company uses that same stuff on the assembly line with paper gaskets on a machine surface. The stuff holds extremely well, but even on 10+ year old units that are returned for service the gaskets will come right off with little issue....the permatex just holds it in place, its dosent set or cure or anything of that nature like a glue. Unless the heat from the engine causes some funny business I wouldnt forsee you having any problems removing it.

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