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    Thread: Achtung baby: Tesla Model S sales crush S-class numbers for the first time in US!

    1. Member Uber Wagon's Avatar
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      10-13-2016 11:19 AM #1
      Data obtained by Bloomberg shows that the Tesla Model S walloped the “large luxury sedan” competition in the U.S. in Q3 2016.

      And how did Bloomberg’s Tom Randall come by such data that Tesla doesn’t normally release on a whim? (generally only generic worldwide quarterly sales – 24,500 for Q3 overall)

      “Tesla accidentally gave me their internal U.S. sales figures for Q3 (which are impressive).”

      One assumes the chart/data provided to Bloomberg was originally intended to be included in the company’s upcoming Q3 fiscal report due on Wednesday, October 26th after the market closes and was released unintentionally early.


      The only argument that might come up on the chart, would be whether or not the Model S actually slots into the “large luxury” sedan category.

      Most agree the Model S is “large,” but some argue it’s not in the same league as these other “luxury” cars. Near-luxury perhaps? We’d just be splitting hairs really. The bigger story is that Model S sales are up 59% from Q3 2015!

      https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ry-sedan-sales

      Last edited by Uber Wagon; 10-13-2016 at 11:23 AM.
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    3. Senior Member Ryukein's Avatar
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      10-13-2016 11:22 AM #2
      Quote Originally Posted by Uber Wagon View Post
      The only argument that might come up on the chart, would be whether or not the Model S actually slots into the “large luxury” sedan category.
      It does't. It's more of a CLS/6-Series GC/Panamera/A7 or high-end 5er/E-Class/A6 competitor.
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    4. Member bubuski's Avatar
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      10-13-2016 11:25 AM #3
      Well I just learnt something new. I thought it was more of an E-class or 5-series competitor. I associate S class with chauffeur driven ultra luxury.


      edit: what Ryukein said ^^

    5. Member Uber Wagon's Avatar
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      10-13-2016 11:34 AM #4
      Quote Originally Posted by Ryukein View Post
      It does't. It's more of a CLS/6-Series GC/Panamera/A7 or high-end 5er/E-Class/A6 competitor.


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    6. Member compy222's Avatar
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      10-13-2016 11:35 AM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by Ryukein View Post
      It does't. It's more of a CLS/6-Series GC/Panamera/A7 or high-end 5er/E-Class/A6 competitor.
      the model S is a hatchback, but based on pricing i would say its a fair comparison...i would also hazard a guess that it would be crushing the GC, Panamera, A7, etc. as well.
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    7. Senior Member Ryukein's Avatar
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      10-13-2016 12:05 PM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by compy222 View Post
      the model S is a hatchback, but based on pricing i would say its a fair comparison...i would also hazard a guess that it would be crushing the GC, Panamera, A7, etc. as well.
      Oh absolutely, and it is impressive that it beats out the full-sizers... But it isn't one.
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    8. Geriatric Member ValveCoverGasket's Avatar
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      10-13-2016 01:23 PM #7
      that 7 series up-tick though!

      i assume due to the launch of the new one?

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      10-13-2016 01:30 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by Ryukein View Post
      It does't. It's more of a CLS/6-Series GC/Panamera/A7 or high-end 5er/E-Class/A6 competitor.
      In the grand scheme of car categories sure, but with the Tesla I don't think most people are cross shopping it against similarly sized/packaged cars. It's more of a Tesla vs. all other options scenario. I think a lot of people miss the point when we get into trying to categorize what its up against. Model S's don't really directly compete with anything due to their specific electric nature acceleration, and power capabilty.

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      10-13-2016 02:06 PM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by WALS1 View Post
      In the grand scheme of car categories sure, but with the Tesla I don't think most people are cross shopping it against similarly sized/packaged cars. It's more of a Tesla vs. all other options scenario. I think a lot of people miss the point when we get into trying to categorize what its up against. Model S's don't really directly compete with anything due to their specific electric nature acceleration, and power capabilty.
      Yeah. Basically. IMHO its WB makes it closer to 5 Series and E Class, but it is also wider and tends to be on the higher side of that class' dimensions. It's messed up trying to classify with dimensions since all MFRs have +/-5" even when they agree their products are peers.

      BTW... how does it compare in sales vs 5 & E?

    11. Member IronJoe's Avatar
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      10-13-2016 03:08 PM #10
      Cool statistic. I think what people are getting hung up on is the "large luxury" category. What I'd like to see is the specific requirements necessary to be classified as a "large luxury" car, because most of the comments are "the Tesla isn't large enough/isn't luxury enough".

      What classifies the Model S as "large"? Some folks have mentioned wheelbase, exterior dimensions, interior dimensions, etc. By comparison, when the Saab 9000 was first imported into the US due to interior dimensions (huge interior space due to the hatch) it was classified as a "Large car" by the EPA. The only other import with this classification was the Rolls Royce.
      The combination of the folding rear seat and the estate/saloon opening rear hatch made for superb load-lugging characteristics. The Saab 9000 was the only imported car, bar the Rolls Royce, to be classifed by the United States authorities as a “large car”.
      I'd be interested to know if the EPA's classification is still used here for sales figure comparison.


      Similarly, what classifies the Model S as "luxury"? Does Bloomberg have a checklist of amenities, features, options, power output, etc that allows each car to make the cut?

      I think without these parameters identified, no one will be able to say with confidence which other cars are appropriate to measure up with the Model S. I looked at the linked story but did not see such specifications. If anyone has anything concrete, post them up.
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    12. Member bubuski's Avatar
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      10-13-2016 03:26 PM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by uncleho View Post
      Yeah. Basically. IMHO its WB makes it closer to 5 Series and E Class, but it is also wider and tends to be on the higher side of that class' dimensions. It's messed up trying to classify with dimensions since all MFRs have +/-5" even when they agree their products are peers.

      BTW... how does it compare in sales vs 5 & E?
      It did pretty good actually. Both the e-class and 5-series YTD sales are down.

      Model S
      Q3 2016: 9,156
      Q3 2015: 5,756

      E-class & CLS
      Q3 2016: 15,118
      Q3 2015: 14,887

      5 series
      Q3 2016: 7,430
      Q3 2015: 10,257

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      10-13-2016 03:30 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by uncleho View Post
      Yeah. Basically. IMHO its WB makes it closer to 5 Series and E Class, but it is also wider and tends to be on the higher side of that class' dimensions. It's messed up trying to classify with dimensions since all MFRs have +/-5" even when they agree their products are peers.

      BTW... how does it compare in sales vs 5 & E?
      It makes more sense to categorize by price imo.
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      10-13-2016 03:44 PM #13
      I think the large hatchback body style helps the Model S' sales despite that being a traditional low volume segment in the US. That top line number is impressive. What do you guys think is the ATP- $90k?

      The hatchback helps the owners more easily advertise to the rest of the public that they are driving a Tesla, which is what they want. A sedan body style that looks like an uglier E-Class or 5er wouldn't accomplish that nearly as well.

      Kind of the same way Prius sells great but hybrid models of primarily gasoline powered vehicles do not.

    15. Geriatric Member spockcat's Avatar
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      10-13-2016 04:01 PM #14
      If only Tesla had more than 1 model car and 1 model minivan. Call me when they are selling 25 different models like MB or 14 different series like BMW.

    16. 10-13-2016 04:35 PM #15
      I read in some publication (can't exactly remember which one) that MB use sales figures from the S-class sedan, coupe, convertible, and Maybach which makes the numbers look better compared to the competitors. Anyone know if this is true or not?

    17. Member Ross1013's Avatar
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      10-13-2016 06:19 PM #16
      BMW and Tesla with huge % increases while Audi, Lexus, and MBZ taking huge hits? Am I dreaming??
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    18. Senior Member Ryukein's Avatar
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      10-13-2016 06:29 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by Ross1013 View Post
      BMW and Tesla with huge % increases while Audi, Lexus, and MBZ taking huge hits? Am I dreaming??
      The BMW is brand new and the Tesla is Tesla. The Audi and Lexus are about to be replaced and the S-Class is about to get facelifted. I'm not too surprised.
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      10-13-2016 06:39 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by JackStraw79 View Post
      I think the large hatchback body style helps the Model S' sales despite that being a traditional low volume segment in the US. That top line number is impressive. What do you guys think is the ATP- $90k
      This is why I can't think of it as a 5er/E competitor... way higher ATP, more in line with A8 3.0/650/740 pricing, and kind of in a gray area for MB. And I'd bet a lot of Tesla buyers are would be S-Class etc buyers who just want the latest and greatest (or specifically want a Model S). I'm sure there are conquests from both sides of the spectrum though.

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