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    Thread: The brakes of the MK4 platform - OEM and Upgrades

    1. Member TrierBora's Avatar
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      10-13-2003 08:03 PM #51
      So the calipers are exactly the same? WHy would they change it on the 2.0 to 1.8T but not from the 1.8T to the 20th? Its a bigger rotor? Im thinking about this upgrade but I dont know if the extra money would be worth it.... I could just upgrade to better pads and cross drilled rotors for 190 bucks....
      How much better would it stop? Would I even notice it? Ive never taken my car to a road course or anything but im assuming that would be the only time I would even notice the difference....
      TIA for the help.

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    3. Member eggroller's Avatar
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      10-13-2003 08:13 PM #52
      It is up to you on the upgrade. Bigger is better for braking performance (my opinion). I chose the 12.3" Audi TT brake size because I plan to have 16" wheels on my car at some point. But, I have Porsche Boxster calipers (The entire kit is the ECS Tuning Stage 2 version 1) which is supposed to have more even clamping pressure on the brake pads.
      I cooked my brakes quite bad multiple times with stock pads. The key item is the stock pads. I came across the Stage 2 by luck and took the plunge. If I was to do it again, I would grab the Audi TT conversion. I heard that the braking performance is quite good, too. Then I would have more money for other things. (~$400 more for the prices I paid)
      Depends all on how much money you want to spend. My personal goal is to have as much 'whoa' as 'go'. I have a chipped 1.8T (~195hp @ crank) so it is quite mild on the upgrade. However, I plan to have more power via a mild turbo upgrade in the future.
      Good luck.

    4. Member TrierBora's Avatar
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      10-13-2003 08:43 PM #53
      See and I have a chipped 1.8T as well and my rotors are grooved quite well. If I had all kinds of money I would love to go to porsche big reds, but ive driven my friends 20th and the brakes just have so much more grab. But Im trying to figure if I just upgraded the rotors to slotted rotors and better pads...if I would have the same effect. I eventually plan to upgrade to stg 3 turbo so I will have a lot of power but I still want to remain cost effective. Im running 18" BBS LM's on my car and the second I put them on, I noticed a difference in the braking because it took more to stop.
      Now If I upgraded to TT set up , I would have to dump my winter set up because its only 15" steelies w/ blizzaks, since the min size on the tt is 16".
      Maybe I should just upgrade to slotted and better pads and see how it is....eventually I would have to buy new again once the pads wore out and i could re-evaluate my situation. Thanks for the help.

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    6. Member eggroller's Avatar
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      11-25-2003 04:09 PM #54
      click on picture for link
      Quote, originally posted by [email protected] »
      Our new tru-float rotor/hat design reduces unsprung/rotational mass by nearly 25%. This means shorter stopping distances and better suspension control.
      All ECS tru-float rotors feature a curved vane design rotor for superior cooling. This means the rotor is capable of absorbing for braking energy and dissipating quickly for fadeless performance.
      Rotors are available in Slotted/Cross-drilled and slotted only. All steel hardware is cadmium platted (including the rotor) and the light weight aluminum hat is finished with a hard black annodization.

    7. 11-25-2003 05:23 PM #55
      sweet product from ECS... but $429 is a bit more than I'd like to pay for rotors.

    8. Member eggroller's Avatar
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      01-21-2004 02:43 PM #56
      Quote, originally posted by ECS Tuning »
      $1795.00




      The ECS Stage 4 Big Brake kit for the Volkswagen MKIV 1.8T and VR6 and Audi TT. Built around ECS’s latest “TruFloat” rotor technology for superior stopping performance, minimal mass gain and greater cooling. Taking advantage of the light weight nature of our 2 piece rotor designs we’ve expanded the rotor diameter to 14” (355x35mm). Increased mechanical advantage means more consistence, shorter stopping distances.
      Rotors: 14" light weight 2 piece floating (355x35mm). Available in Slotted/Cross-Drilled or just Slotted.
      Calipers: Porsche - 4 Piston Monobloc. Available in Red or Silver
      Fitment: OEM 18" or larger (NO need for wheelspacers)

      Edit: Fixed pictures.


      Modified by eggroller at 2:46 PM 1-21-2004

    9. 03-30-2004 04:24 PM #57
      Quote, originally posted by symplex17 »
      Now for the shameless plug...
      I can help 2.0L and TDI owners get an econimincal start toward building the foundation for future brake upgrades with a 1.8t / VR6 OE front brake set-up that I am selling.

      I know this post is a year old, but I'm desperate. Do you still have these?

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      07-02-2004 04:50 PM #58
      Here is another inexpensive brake upgrade to add to the list:
      Tyrolsport brake caliper stiffening kit: (MkIII, MKIV, B5) $79+shipping
      Quote »
      TyrolSport’s revolutionary new Brake Caliper Stiffening bushings prevent the caliper flex inherent in the stock rubber-bushed design. This flex leads to uneven pad wear and rotor deposits under hard usage. An inexpensive upgrade to the stock that should be part of your next brake job. Track tested and mother approved!

      http://tyrolsport.com/Products.htm

    11. 07-03-2004 01:34 AM #59
      Nice post, Very imformative Cheers

    12. Member eggroller's Avatar
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      07-12-2004 12:17 AM #60
      More updates to the thread (thanks PHATVW (Dan))!
      Tyrolsport's Brake Caliper Stiffening Kit $79
      TyrolSport’s revolutionary new Brake Caliper Stiffening bushings prevent the caliper flex inherent in the stock rubber-bushed design. This flex leads to uneven pad wear and rotor deposits under hard usage. An inexpensive upgrade to the stock that should be part of your next brake job.
      Purchase from:Tyrolsport
      STaSIS Track Sport Front 13.0" (332mm x 32mm) $2695+
      Comes with: 2 Alcon Monoblock 4-piston calipers, 2 Brembo Floating Rotors, 332mm x 32mm, directionally vented, gas slotted, 2 STaSIS Rotor mounting hats, 2 STaSIS Caliper mounting brackets, SBS Pro-Touring high performance brake pads, Goodridge braided stainless steel brake lines (front only), Motul 5.1 high performance brake fluid
      Requires: 17"+ wheels and Installation
      Purchase from: STaSIS Engineering | Achtuning | Matrix Engineering | Tyrolsport
      STaSIS Track Sport Front 14.0" (355mm x 32mm) $2995+
      Comes with: 2 Alcon Monoblock 4-piston calipers, 2 Brembo Floating Rotors, 355mm x 32mm, directionally vented, gas slotted, 2 STaSIS Rotor mounting hats, 2 STaSIS Caliper mounting brackets, SBS Pro-Touring high performance brake pads, Goodridge braided stainless steel brake lines (front only), Motul 5.1 high performance brake fluid
      Requires: 18"+ wheels and Installation
      Purchase from: STaSIS Engineering | Achtuning | Matrix Engineering | Tyrolsport
      STaSIS Track Sport Rear (In development) $----
      Comes with: 2 STaSIS Rotors vented & gas slotted, 2 STaSIS Rotor mounting hats, 2 STaSIS Caliper mounting brackets, Porterfield R4S high performance brake pads, Goodridge braided stainless steel brake lines (rear only), Motul 5.1 high performance brake fluid
      Requires: ?" wheels and Installation
      Purchase from: STaSIS Engineering | Achtuning | Matrix Engineering | Tyrolsport



      Modified by eggroller at 12:19 AM 7-12-2004

    13. 07-15-2004 12:57 AM #61
      I read through the list quickly and did not see the kit that I can get my hands on for the budget minded rear brake upgrade- Rear 280mm (11") rotors (Cross Drilled & Slotted) and Adapters and hardware to retain factory calipers and E-Brake. $349.95. IM ME.
      P.S. Great Post [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

    14. 08-16-2004 12:38 AM #62
      To add...and hopefully someone has a more complete list...
      Wheels that fit over the various brake upgrades (smallest sizes):
      A4 312mm upgrade
      16" that do not require spacers
      Steel Wheels
      Montreal II (???)
      16" that do require spacers
      Rave
      RXII (Wolfsburg)
      Edit or complete the list.

    15. 09-08-2004 10:49 PM #63
      any body know the part # for the 1.8t hub carrier? thinkin about an upgrade!

    16. Member eggroller's Avatar
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      02-09-2005 12:47 PM #64
      Edit9: Added ECS Stage 5, Added RPI Big Red kit, Added RPI 12.19" Kit, Added RPI Big Red hardware kit, Link to discussion of Bigger is not always better.

    17. 02-10-2005 11:49 AM #65
      Bump!
      this page needs to be on top.......... [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
      Very good information...

    18. 02-13-2005 10:46 AM #66
      Sorry; this isn't clear. Many of these configurations use the 11.3" Mk4 calipers w/ 12/3" Mk4 rotor. How is this possible? Are the calipers the same, do they use the same carrier mounts, or is there something special about the Audi TT (since Audi TT parts seem to be a common thread in these upgrades)?

    19. Member eggroller's Avatar
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      02-13-2005 11:28 AM #67
      Quote, originally posted by cpurick »
      Many of these configurations use the 11.3" Mk4 calipers w/ 12.3" Mk4 rotor.
      Yes, the 12.3" front brake upgrade for the 11.3" OEM brakes do use the same calipers. The key item is the caliper carrier. VAG place the caliper further away from the hub/spindle to accomodate the larger rotor. Hence why you will see the 12.3" caliper carriers forsale. It only requires the 12.3" rotors to make the 12.3" brakes.
      Note: 2.0l and TDI vehicles reuse their calipers. However, they are required to upgrade their hub/spindles due to the way they mount the calipers directly to the hub/spindle (they don't utilize the caliper carriers).

    20. 02-13-2005 11:52 AM #68
      Are the 11.3" and 12.3" calipers the same p/n, or is it just a coincidental compatibility that permits 11.3" calipers to work on 12.3" rotors?
      I still don't understand if these upgrades are shoe-horning them together, or if the only difference in the stock setups is the rotor size and carrier geometry.

    21. Member eggroller's Avatar
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      02-13-2005 11:56 AM #69
      No, the 11.3" and 12.3" calipers are not the same p/n. It is just a coincidental compatibility that permits 11.3" calipers to work on 12.3" rotors. The main difference is in the rotor size and caliper carrier geometry.

    22. 02-13-2005 12:06 PM #70
      Got it. So the mod doesn't get you quite as much pad surface as the factory 12.3" brake, but you get the additional braking power and heat absorption of the added diameter.
      Is there anything special about the Audi TT -- seemed like a few of the links were using TT carriers. I was thinking maybe the TT combines the 11.3" calipers with the 12.3" rotor, making its carrier a suitable "adapter" for other A4 applications.

    23. Member eggroller's Avatar
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      02-13-2005 01:05 PM #71
      The caliper carriers and the rotors are the key pieces for the conversion from 11.3" to the 12.3" Audi TT/GTI 337 brakes if you have a 1.8T or VR6. The upgrade kits should include these pieces. I have yet to see an Audi TT with 11.3" brakes. I don't think that you ever see because the increased weight of a TT vs a VW MK4.
      To help with the decision: Many of the road racing folks are using the Audi TT 12.3" conversion for serious road racing. They use the VW MK4 11.3" calipers, Audi TT caliper carriers and high quality pads. However, many of those same racers just recommend the 11.3" brakes with improved brake pads for the street unless you track the car so you use the extra heat capacity of the 12.3" rotors.
      Please take a look at the following threads:
      12.3" Brake Swap
      Another proof why BIGGER brakes are NOT always best!

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      02-14-2005 02:59 PM #72
      Quote, originally posted by cpurick »
      Got it. So the mod doesn't get you quite as much pad surface as the factory 12.3" brake, but you get the additional braking power and heat absorption of the added diameter.
      Is there anything special about the Audi TT -- seemed like a few of the links were using TT carriers. I was thinking maybe the TT combines the 11.3" calipers with the 12.3" rotor, making its carrier a suitable "adapter" for other A4 applications.

      All the retailers I've seen (including the forum sponsor ECSTuuning) sell the same brake pads for the Audi TT 180hp/225hp as they do for the VW 1.8T/VR6 models. I believe the pad area is identical. The part numbers for the calipers may be different, but I'm pretty sure they are interchangeable.

    25. 02-14-2005 03:43 PM #73
      So if VW used different calipers for the 12.3" rotor than it uses for the 11.3" rotor you might not be able to use the carrier.
      But if Audi used the VW 11.3" caliper on the TT 12.3" rotor, then 11.3" VW owners could use the TT carrier to adapt the 12.3" rotor to their cars. And this would work even if the VW used different calipers in their 12.3" applications.

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      02-14-2005 03:53 PM #74
      Quote, originally posted by cpurick »
      But if Audi used the VW 11.3" caliper on the TT 12.3" rotor, then 11.3" VW owners could use the TT carrier to adapt the 12.3" rotor to their cars. And this would work even if the VW used different calipers in their 12.3" applications.

      I have done the 12.3" swap on my VW with no fitment issues.
      The VW 11.3" caliper works with the Audi 12.3" carrier.
      The Audi 12.3" caliper also works with the Audi 12.3" carrier.
      I expect the Audi 12.3" caliper works with the VW 11.3" carrier, but I have not verified this.
      Part numbers can differ between models and model years yet the parts may be completely interchangeable. Sometimes a new part number means they changed the manufacturing process, or changed vendors. The part number change may just be for tracking. But its still the same part!

    27. 02-14-2005 04:00 PM #75
      great informative thread! [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

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