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    Thread: Poor high speed handling

    1. Member
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      03-04-2017 10:23 AM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by kilby1 View Post
      No, not been put on an alignment machine, it tracks so well at steady speeds that I'm pretty confident that it would spec out fine. This is just a problem with hard acceleration on good highway surfaces with no ruts and a 75 mph speed limit (120km/h)
      I echo just having it checked anyway. Not likely with a new car, but with some vehicles the car could still track straight but is actually crabbing.

      Also, swap out the tires.

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    3. Member VWRally's Avatar
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      03-04-2017 12:43 PM #27
      There are two main culprits to the instability at higher speeds that I have seen with the mk7 chassis. First and foremost is the alignment. The factory alignment sucks and it is very normal to see a large caster split on brand new cars off the showroom floor. Get a performance alignment by a reputable shop that KNOWS alignments, DO NOT go to a big chain store or dealership as they all align to factory specs (which are terrible) and will rarely adjust camber or shift the subframe to balance the splits.

      The second big one is the rear control arm bushings. The stock bushing have a lot of play in them and contribute drastically to mushy and poor stability at high speeds. Changing these for the Meyle HD or TTRS bushings makes a huge difference in the steering feel of these cars.

      If you do the bushings, then get the car properly aligned, you will be a very happy camper

    4. Junior Member kilby1's Avatar
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      03-04-2017 05:44 PM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by PwrUsr View Post
      What tires exactly are you running?

      I know with my mk6 Golf the OEM 225 45 17 procontacts were pretty bad. Felt like 4 Marshmallows at all 4 corners.

      I replaced them with same size continental PureContacts. Here's the key. I made sure that they were V-Rated. They helped sure up side to side movement. Really felt great after that.

      I think what you are looking for is a tire with stiffer sidewalls. Go for v rated or higher tires.
      Thanks, marshmallow is the perfect description? I would go with Michelin Pilots of some sort as I have had good luck with them in the past. Still back and forth between keeping the 17's or going to 18's and sticking snows on the 17"

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    6. Junior Member kilby1's Avatar
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      03-04-2017 05:48 PM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by VWRally View Post
      There are two main culprits to the instability at higher speeds that I have seen with the mk7 chassis. First and foremost is the alignment. The factory alignment sucks and it is very normal to see a large caster split on brand new cars off the showroom floor. Get a performance alignment by a reputable shop that KNOWS alignments, DO NOT go to a big chain store or dealership as they all align to factory specs (which are terrible) and will rarely adjust camber or shift the subframe to balance the splits.

      The second big one is the rear control arm bushings. The stock bushing have a lot of play in them and contribute drastically to mushy and poor stability at high speeds. Changing these for the Meyle HD or TTRS bushings makes a huge difference in the steering feel of these cars.

      If you do the bushings, then get the car properly aligned, you will be a very happy camper
      Thanks to all, looks like a proper alignment next time I'm near the big city and good performance oriented alignment tech and machine.

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      03-04-2017 08:49 PM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by kilby1 View Post
      Thanks, marshmallow is the perfect description? I would go with Michelin Pilots of some sort as I have had good luck with them in the past. Still back and forth between keeping the 17's or going to 18's and sticking snows on the 17"
      My recommendation is to go 18s only if your local roads that you travel on most often are smooth.

      Definitely stay with 17s for the winter season. And go with Nokian for the winter tires.

      For summer tires it's a universal recommendation to go with the Michelin Pilot Super Sports. A highly recommended budget choice is the firehawk indy 500's.

      For all season tires in 18" size (or 17") there's several good choices.
      -For areas that see lots of winter snow & ice I'd go with the Nokian WRG3. These are true "all weather" tires. That's why I went with them on my GTI Sport. To quickly review them they have better wet traction then the stock tires had in the dry!

      -another popular choice for areas that see snow is the continental DWS 06.

      -for areas that don't see much snow or ice the Michelin AS3+ are the best "compromise" tire that you can get. Even outperforms a few summer tires.

    8. Member Patronus's Avatar
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      03-05-2017 12:35 PM #31
      It sounds like a toe in/out issue to me. If the toe is wrong it can feel very squirrelly, yet it may not pull to one side or another.

      There is no reason not to have the alignment checked. Oh, and get a proper 4-wheel alignment done.

    9. 03-05-2017 12:49 PM #32
      I had similar experience.

      2 things!

      1) Turn in is much sharper than your older cars. So you only need 1/2 the effort you could be oversteering.

      2) all seasons and the stock suspension is a little floaty compared to my 06 gti stock springs Koni yellow struts.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    10. Member VWRally's Avatar
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      03-05-2017 01:24 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by Patronus View Post
      It sounds like a toe in/out issue to me. If the toe is wrong it can feel very squirrelly, yet it may not pull to one side or another.

      There is no reason not to have the alignment checked. Oh, and get a proper 4-wheel alignment done.
      Factory cars come with a lot of toe in F/R, they also typically have a large caster split and not very aggressive camber in the rear. Making these minor changes to a better proven spec will drastically change how the car responds to steering inputs and feels when driving spiritedly. I have probably one or two customers a week with brand new cars, we suggest control arm bushing and alignment, and they come back to rave about how huge of an improvement it was just to do those two cheap and easy tweaks.

    11. Junior Member kilby1's Avatar
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      03-08-2017 12:44 AM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by v-1 View Post
      I had similar experience.

      2 things!

      1) Turn in is much sharper than your older cars. So you only need 1/2 the effort you could be oversteering.

      2) all seasons and the stock suspension is a little floaty compared to my 06 gti stock springs Koni yellow struts.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      The car exhibits this annoying anomaly only under hard acceleration on good roads at speeds over 60 mph or so. Our 2015 Jetta does not have this problem with the same tires at the same pressure, after dozens of Volkswagens and BMW's I can emphatically state that I am not "Oversteering"

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      03-08-2017 11:25 PM #35
      '16 tsi Wagon, OEM Continentals 225.45.17 ProContact, 196.65.15 winter Continentals
      Bought it new 15 months/23000km and the Dealer has done two alignments.
      -adj for more toe front(twice) and rear, adj rear camber
      -reported frt caster is just within range and is not adjustable(Dealer does not want to adjust front subframe)
      -I reported poor directional stability right from new. Unless the roads are glass smooth and there is no crosswind, constant steering correction is needed. When following other vehicles of all types, including other similar Vw's, at Hwy speeds, my Golf wanders more. I drove the same roads in a Jetta loaner which tracked much better. Also the winter tires are worse.
      VW is satisfied with the way it drives. I have read about some Golfs being out of alignment from new. The day I received a dealer warranty alignment they had another Golf Wagon in for the same complaint.

      I'll check the rear suspension for bushing loseness.
      1986 Monte Carlo SS - 180 Raging HP - summer toy
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      03-09-2017 10:10 PM #36
      You may want to consider the Tyrol sport deadset kit for the mk7:

      http://www.tyrolsport.com/suspension...it-for-mk7-a3/

    14. Member VWRally's Avatar
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      03-09-2017 11:57 PM #37
      I've installed 2 mk7 deadset kits and both times resulted in a massive caster split. We removed them in favor of a much improved alignment. With properly tightened bolts we don't see many issues with the mk7 subframe shifting.

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      03-10-2017 12:03 AM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by VWRally View Post
      I've installed 2 mk7 deadset kits and both times resulted in a massive caster split. We removed them in favor of a much improved alignment. With properly tightened bolts we don't see many issues with the mk7 subframe shifting.
      Good to know!

    16. Member Dal97GLX's Avatar
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      03-10-2017 12:38 AM #39
      I believe i've experienced the same type of handling in my car on the freeway as the OP describes it. I've attributed it to the "rain groves" on concrete highways. First time I experienced it was on I80 towards Reno just after Truckee. Probably doing about 80mph on the curvy bits, long radius curves, scared the crap out of me. The rear seemed to be almost disconnected from the road, sort of wobbling around trying to adhere to the road. I slowed thinking I got a flat, went away around 65-70. Black asphalt is a totally different story, no problems at all. I didn't give it any thought since I took in for service shortly afterwards. Free alignment check(didn't ask for) came back perfect. The next time it happened was going over the Altamont pass. Happened as soon as I got on to a newly paved section. That's when it dawned on me that must be the issue. Tried it a few more times at different places, same results.

      Not sure if that is an issue to be concerned about since I can take smooth blacktop at higher speeds w/o any problems.If it is a problem, should it be addressed?

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      03-10-2017 08:54 AM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by VWRally View Post
      I've installed 2 mk7 deadset kits and both times resulted in a massive caster split. We removed them in favor of a much improved alignment. With properly tightened bolts we don't see many issues with the mk7 subframe shifting.
      First time we ever heard of this(?). We don't see how it would be possible. Would you mind providing us with data? (you can email [email protected] or post here, whichever is more convenient)

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      03-10-2017 07:53 PM #41
      I still think that tires are the root cause of the folks that have issues with the handling of the car.

      Remember the stock tires on these cars are not that great. Add to that they are only H rated. Meaning the sidewalls are softer. Really sucks for precise handling. My rule of thumb is to go with V rated or better.

    19. Junior Member kilby1's Avatar
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      09-15-2019 06:38 PM #42
      I now have 18" wheels and tires to replace the base car's 17" and that was all that was needed, good Michelins as well.

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      09-15-2019 07:34 PM #43

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      09-16-2019 12:22 AM #44
      I just got back from Germany. My rental car was a Golf IQ-Drive, 1.0 Liter. The vehicle handled just fine up to the 190 kmh, which was the limit of the OEM winter tires. I am kind of surprised that the tires were the culprit here based on the original post.
      I am guessing that the OP is just used to a stiffer sidewall? The Golf was no track queen, but was definitely not squirrely by any means either.

    22. Member A2JettaGLI18's Avatar
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      09-16-2019 03:41 PM #45
      It is all about the tires. The 225 45 R17s are probably the best wheel /tire you can go with on the MK5, MK6 or MK7 IF you want good cornering and launch. Higher speeds I do not notice the difference. Bigger brakes is the only thing that prevents you from doing 17s. 17s generally will be lighter and have way less unsprung weight/mass. The tires also have more sidewall which works better with your suspension and your spine in my experience. My MKV GTI was a dog on my 18 huffs before switching to OEM 17s. I run lightweight 17s on my mk7 e-Golf and it's very competent.

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      09-16-2019 05:41 PM #46
      My 15 GTI was all over the road until I put the steering into Sport mode. In Normal mode the steering is so light that simply breathing caused the car to move right or left. Sport mode tightened up the steering effort enough that the car now tracks straight as an arrow. No other changes, not even tire pressure.

      Mike
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      09-17-2019 03:25 PM #47
      I believe that the MK7 has around 7 deg positive caster and as such, it should track like a freight train. Often, however, directional stability is defined in the back end...a wagging tail so to speak. The TT RS bushings that I installed along with the Pilots reduced this somewhat, but I suspect that the back end bushings allow a far amount of deflection. Oddly, the bigger rear sway bar helped and I've no idea why...just haven't given this much thought. But changing the camber and toe control links with a variety of harder rubber may indeed help...or just add a little more rear toe-in.

      This car is far less stable at high speeds than my JCW Mini was...that was indeed a freight train of confidence.
      Bilstein B14, 034 fixed camber plates, 034 stiffer upper rear mount, TT RS front control arm bushings, 034 22.2 adjustable rear swaybar, Cryo Stoptech slotted rotors with Isweep 3000 short track pads front, Stoptech slotted rotors and Isweep 2500 pads rear, SS brake lines, Pilot AS3+ GIAC Stage 1 low torque tune

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      09-17-2019 07:57 PM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by meboice View Post
      .....The TT RS bushings that I installed along with the Pilots reduced this somewhat, but I suspect that the back end bushings allow a far amount of deflection.....
      Could you go into more detail with what TTRS bushings you replaced?

      Also if back end squirms around try upgrading to the 034 rear trailing arms or something similar.

      I have noticed that with high speed heavy braking the car turns into a marshmallow feeling. slightly oscillating back and forth front and rear. very odd feeling that I don't like and would like to get rid of completely even at the cost of a bit of NVH if needed.

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      09-19-2019 07:58 AM #49
      Sure...lower front control arm rear bushings. The bushing sleeve is ever so slightly taller but the boring is the same. The difference is quite amazing, more so that I do not have an LSD... The TT RS bushings are solid and are made from a harder rubber compound...I've no idea how much harder, however. These bushings did not add to any NVH that I could detect...just a much more direct steering response through all phases of handling/driving.

      I've given thought to the 034 camber and toe control links for their harder rubber, but the large trailing arm bushing, if like other designs, is a well designed piece that compensates for tow and camber. I'm afraid of the 034 rod end/spherical bearing in that location only for the snow and salt that I drive through all winter...otherwise that's a great piece!

      Quote Originally Posted by PwrUsr View Post
      Could you go into more detail with what TTRS bushings you replaced?

      Also if back end squirms around try upgrading to the 034 rear trailing arms or something similar.

      I have noticed that with high speed heavy braking the car turns into a marshmallow feeling. slightly oscillating back and forth front and rear. very odd feeling that I don't like and would like to get rid of completely even at the cost of a bit of NVH if needed.
      Last edited by meboice; 09-19-2019 at 08:01 AM.
      Bilstein B14, 034 fixed camber plates, 034 stiffer upper rear mount, TT RS front control arm bushings, 034 22.2 adjustable rear swaybar, Cryo Stoptech slotted rotors with Isweep 3000 short track pads front, Stoptech slotted rotors and Isweep 2500 pads rear, SS brake lines, Pilot AS3+ GIAC Stage 1 low torque tune

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      09-19-2019 10:12 PM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by A2JettaGLI18 View Post
      It is all about the tires. The 225 45 R17s are probably the best wheel /tire you can go with on the MK5, MK6 or MK7 IF you want good cornering and launch. Higher speeds I do not notice the difference. Bigger brakes is the only thing that prevents you from doing 17s. 17s generally will be lighter and have way less unsprung weight/mass. The tires also have more sidewall which works better with your suspension and your spine in my experience. My MKV GTI was a dog on my 18 huffs before switching to OEM 17s. I run lightweight 17s on my mk7 e-Golf and it's very competent.
      +1

      Highly recommend 225 45 R17.

      Made a big difference on my MK7 Golf 1.8 TSI.

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