I think when EPS first came out, automakers tried to take advantage of the tuning flexibility and increased assist at parking lot speeds to reduce driver complaints of effort and fatigue. One of the first things a consumer notices with their hands when they test drive a car is the steering feel (weight, feel, ergo, etc.). And, by its nature EPS has more friction, which can make it feel numb. So I think a lot of the motoring press associated the light parking lot effort with the lack of road feel. The two aren't totally related though.
In response to the criticism, some automakers have gone back and firmed up feel at parking lot speeds. But honestly, IMO, the steering could be light as feather and not effect the performance one bit so long as it firms up at road speeds. I also happen to have arthritis, so steering effort at parking lot speeds is something I'm really sensitive to. The MK7 GTI is one car that does it right: Light at parking lot speeds, and it weights up as you throw it into a corner -- best of both worlds, which is how it should be.
So get this.
I had done a TrueCar inquiry on the specific Sport SE 6MT in SMR. Of course I get three dealers calling me asking when I want to come test drive one, but they don't have what I want. So the last dealer is emailing me every hour. I finally shoot an email back saying I found my car, deposit is made and thank you. The Sales Manager calls me 5 mins later and says he can get me one, but there's only ONE in the NE and it's in MA. I ask him what his bottom dollar offer is and he laughs and says "full MSRP for this model". I tell him thank you, but I already have found one, deposit made and for $22.9. He flat out calls me a liar and says there is none in CT. I tell him again, thank you but I'm all set and hang up. Another 5 mins later the "internet" manager calls me and says "good news, we'll give you $1K off MSRP, when do I want to come down. I tell her thanks but no thanks the deal is ALREADY done with another dealer. She asks me where and I tell her. She adds "look, I'm looking at the entire inventory and that dealer does not have it, plus they're shady, I've heard some bad stories about them!" I just hang up because they sound like complete idiots. I then proceed to email her the written up offer and stock number. Haven't heard back. **** them.
Last month I was back in the market for a 2017 Legacy. I looked at TrueCar, but I got much better prices by just emailing the Internet Sales managers directly and asking for their lowest price if I were to buy on the upcoming weekend. My local dealer agreed to match a volume dealer's price and also agreed to do a dealer swap for the color I wanted.
-2014 GT Premium
-Shaker Pro Audio
I even gave the bullet point list in the order of the builder on the site. And literally probably 5 times in a row he completely got it wrong, like he was on drugs or something. Time and time again I was like no you dip****, that isn't what I said. Eventually I was like yeah royally fawk this guy if he can't even read a bullet point list of his own product offering and went elsewhere and had a great sales guy. However after my car was ordered elsewhere, I still received emails from him on like a daily/weekly basis for literally MONTHS after the car had long been delivered and was in my garage. Didn't seem to matter how many times I told the idiot that not only had I ordered the car elsewhere where the sales guy was competent, but that the car had been built, delivered, and was sitting in my garage and that I was NOT IN THE MARKET ANYMORE and to STOP CONTACTING ME COMPLETELY. ****in' guy just kept on and kept on. Eventually after literally about a year he disappeared, only to pop up like 1.5 years in and ask if I was still in the market. Mind you this was actually the internet sales manager. And while I thought based on his old man name he was just some old moron, he pops up on my linkedin and he can't be more than 45.
Last edited by puma1552; 03-13-2017 at 05:03 PM.
^ If it's similar to the pre-refresh cars, turning off the VSA isn't really necessary for fun driving. The switch on the dash allowed the back end to come around a little if you really tried, but to be honest, the too-wide tires provide so much lateral grip that it's kind of hard to get it do really go out of line. And as much as I disliked mine, it was pretty good fun on a backroad. The sales manager letting me take his personal 6-speed Sport up into some canyons for a couple of hours is what sold me in the first place. Jerk.
Anyway, on the flip side, straight line grip under power wasn't very good. Lots of wheel hop and one-wheel-peels in some situations, even with the A/S 3s that I had. I'd assume the Continentals are a good middle ground between the terrible RE92s that mine came with and a summer tire trying to be an all season like the A/S 3.
My car will reduce power until the wheel is pointing totally straight so I sometimes disable it when pulling out in to fast traffic. The stability control is also slow to react, then over-reacts with an angry brake "grawwwwwwnch" so I will sometimes turn it off if I am hustling it around in the mountains. Unlike some cars that only intervene if you are screwing up, it steps in pretty much any time there is a quick transition or any kind of tire squeal. I think it is calibrated for the crap tires it came with, not these summer Michelins that really transformed the handling.
Improving the signal-to-noise ratio
It only weighs 2300 lbs, has immediate turn-in, strong brakes, better power than most expect with the 5-speed (0-60 in mid 8-second range) and the rear will rotate if you tell it to. The turning circle is comical and it is a riot on tight mountain switchbacks where you can just keep it in 2nd the whole time (goes out to just over 60 MPH), barely ever using the brakes. Yeah, it is not refined or cool looking, but most have formed their opinion of them based on base automatic rental cars. It is so different with a 5-speed. I have had fancier cars but it is one of my favorites.
Don't worry, my next car is gonna have two seats!
Improving the signal-to-noise ratio
Past: '06 Accord V6, '95 Taurus SHO, '01 ITR, '98 Civic HX CVT
Originally Posted by jamerican1
So now I'm on the fence if I should continue to wait. I negotiated for $22,900 before tt&l for the new 2017 Sport SE.
I've found two 2016 CPO SM Red Sports 6MT (non-SE) locally. Both less than 10K (one 6K, one 9K) miles. Asking a "non-negotiable" $21,900. I mean $1K off isn't a lot, but CPO will give me a better warranty than new. What to do?!
I can get a 2016 GTI SE with performance pack with under 10K miles for about $26K OTD. Not really sure what differences the SE is between 2016 and 2017, but one dealership said the 2017 SE is 2K more then the Sport, so a difference of 5-6K is worth it to me to buy used.
Find out the OTD price on both cars and see if the extra money is worth being new over slightly used.