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    Thread: TCL Darling Acquired: E39 M5

    1. Member fbobberts's Avatar
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      03-27-2017 10:53 PM #51
      Quote Originally Posted by Crispyfritter View Post
      Excellent score!

      I figured I'd dip my toes in the water of E39 ownership by finding a nice 530i sport, and if I dare chance it, upgrade to an M5.

      Thanks for sharing your journey with us. I appreciate a good road trip thread.

      Chris
      In many ways I preferred my 530i sport to the m5. Gas mileage and turn radius for two. The 530i is the much better daily driver. The m5 once sorted however is great for scaring the living hell out of three of your coworkers at lunch.
      I decided to calculate the actual cost of ownership in 3 years and 0 miles driven(maybe 2-3 miles pushed) the 951 cost me $3695.21(maintenance parts). If I was a betting men, I would bet that this is far from the total this 951 will cost me. (PawaK_2001)

      Quote Originally Posted by freedomgli View Post
      Good. Sometimes the only way to deal with knuckleheads is to have the lawyers duke it out.

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    3. Member nicetry's Avatar
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      03-28-2017 01:21 AM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by kiznarsh View Post
      Thanks!

      The hotel was actually in Arcata since I wanted to stay at a Hilton property for points, so it was the Hampton Inn.
      Good call, the Red Lion is a sh!t hole, lol.

    4. Member freedomgli's Avatar
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      03-28-2017 10:25 AM #53
      Congrats! Awesome car and awesome pics of what appears to be a great road trip. Looks like you caught this one just in time before it suffered any more neglect.

      Quote Originally Posted by kiznarsh View Post
      I've been to Seattle a few times and Rainier's size never seizes to amaze me.
      <Insert flashing light seizure inducing meme here.>

      I've been keeping an eye on the M5 market for a while now. But as much as I'd love one in my garage I just can't bring myself to take on the responsibility of ownership just yet. Most of the examples I see have lots of deferred maintenance and just general wear and tear, which means many weekends busy spent making things right again. But I'm happy to see other bold enthusiasts take on the challenge! Sometimes I think about the M5-lite 540i/6. Until I read articles like this one.... http://oppositelock.kinja.com/public...40i-1685761777

    5. Member kiznarsh's Avatar
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      03-28-2017 11:24 AM #54
      Quote Originally Posted by freedomgli View Post
      Congrats! Awesome car and awesome pics of what appears to be a great road trip. Looks like you caught this one just in time before it suffered any more neglect.


      <Insert flashing light seizure inducing meme here.>

      I've been keeping an eye on the M5 market for a while now. But as much as I'd love one in my garage I just can't bring myself to take on the responsibility of ownership just yet. Most of the examples I see have lots of deferred maintenance and just general wear and tear, which means many weekends busy spent making things right again. But I'm happy to see other bold enthusiasts take on the challenge! Sometimes I think about the M5-lite 540i/6. Until I read articles like this one.... http://oppositelock.kinja.com/public...40i-1685761777
      Thanks (and thanks for catching the typo, lol).

      There's​ definitely risk with owning these but there's also plenty of reward. I'm prepared to work on it myself as much as I can because otherwise, it can become pretty costly.

      There were a couple with 40-50k fewer miles available, but I didn't think they were worth paying an extra $10k. We'll see if I was right.
      Last edited by kiznarsh; 03-28-2017 at 12:46 PM.

    6. ***** (Cat) Lover Pizza Cat!!!!'s Avatar
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      03-28-2017 11:26 AM #55
      Quote Originally Posted by kiznarsh View Post
      Thanks (and thanks for catching typo, lol).

      There's​ definitely risk with owning these but there's also plenty of reward. I'm prepared to work on it myself as much as I can because otherwise, it can become pretty costly.

      There were a couple with 40-50k fewer miles available, but I didn't think they were worth paying an extra $10k. We'll see if I was right.
      As backwards as it may sound, i think these are one of those cars that I'd rather buy with high mileage. (Obviously with a clean PPI).

      Also - y u no like my gif??
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      03-28-2017 11:32 AM #56
      Quote Originally Posted by MrCatRidesAPizzaTurtleWithACrunchyTaco View Post
      As backwards as it may sound, i think these are one of those cars that I'd rather buy with high mileage. (Obviously with a clean PPI).

      Also - y u no like my gif??
      100k tends to be the sweet spot, assuming the PO fixed stuff during the cranky period. At 100k, it's most likely needing bushings again, another clutch, cooling system, valley pan, timing chain tensioner (but not guides), and a few other things (sunroof cassette, door seals, shifter bushings, door lock actuators). This stuff comes up around 80-120k. Lot of it isn't expensive to DIY.

      Cars under 80k have a big premium due to miles. Cars over 120k are closer to rod bearing and timing chain guide replacement. Those two aren't DIY friendly.

      At 100k, you get a rush of small things, but you don't pay a premium, and you have plenty of miles until big ticket items start loomong. OP bought well.
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    8. Member Stevo12's Avatar
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      03-28-2017 11:38 AM #57
      Quote Originally Posted by kiznarsh View Post
      There's​ definitely risk with owning these but there's also plenty of reward. I'm prepared to work on it myself as much as I can because otherwise, it can become pretty costly.

      There were a couple with 40-50k fewer miles available, but I didn't think they were worth paying an extra $10k. We'll see if I was right.
      I feel the same about my M3. Even with the work I've put into it so far with the cooling system and head gasket, there is no guarantee that a $7-9k M3 sedan (or $10-15k coupe) with less miles wouldn't have needed the same.

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      03-28-2017 11:41 AM #58
      Quote Originally Posted by Sold Over Sticker View Post
      100k tends to be the sweet spot, assuming the PO fixed stuff during the cranky period. At 100k, it's most likely needing bushings again, another clutch, cooling system, valley pan, timing chain tensioner (but not guides), and a few other things (sunroof cassette, door seals, shifter bushings, door lock actuators). This stuff comes up around 80-120k. Lot of it isn't expensive to DIY.

      Cars under 80k have a big premium due to miles. Cars over 120k are closer to rod bearing and timing chain guide replacement. Those two aren't DIY friendly.

      At 100k, you get a rush of small things, but you don't pay a premium, and you have plenty of miles until big ticket items start loomong. OP bought well.
      The real "bargain" score I guess would be a daily driver in the 150k range. I'm just talking out of my ass thinking about buying my german counterpart, now.
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      03-28-2017 11:51 AM #59
      Quote Originally Posted by MrCatRidesAPizzaTurtleWithACrunchyTaco View Post
      The real "bargain" score I guess would be a daily driver in the 150k range. I'm just talking out of my ass thinking about buying my german counterpart, now.
      That's smack dab in the middle of $3-4K timing chain and $3k rod bearing territory. That's all you buddy.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Phillie Phanatic
      SoS - please shoot a message when Brendan & His Retarded Sycophants has another gig. I’ll be there, front row.

    11. ***** (Cat) Lover Pizza Cat!!!!'s Avatar
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      03-28-2017 11:59 AM #60
      Quote Originally Posted by Sold Over Sticker View Post
      That's smack dab in the middle of $3-4K timing chain and $3k rod bearing territory. That's all you buddy.


      Meh, who am I kidding. Still want.
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    12. Geriatric Member ValveCoverGasket's Avatar
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      03-28-2017 12:13 PM #61
      Quote Originally Posted by Sold Over Sticker View Post
      Cars under 80k have a big premium due to miles. Cars over 120k are closer to rod bearing and timing chain guide replacement. Those two aren't DIY friendly.
      rod bearings as part of normal service? i guess i havent been following bmw motors much.. wow.

      does anything require machining or is it just the bearings themselves that wear and requirement replacement?

      dropping the oil pan probably isnt too bad, no? if its just a bearing replacement id imagine that would be a DIY with the engine in...


      crazy though!

    13. Planters (fasciitis) peanuts. Dang dogg Sold Over Sticker's Avatar
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      03-28-2017 12:21 PM #62
      Quote Originally Posted by ValveCoverGasket View Post
      rod bearings as part of normal service? i guess i havent been following bmw motors much.. wow.

      does anything require machining or is it just the bearings themselves that wear and requirement replacement?

      dropping the oil pan probably isnt too bad, no? if its just a bearing replacement id imagine that would be a DIY with the engine in...


      crazy though!
      It's outside the scope of what I'd do without my mechanic buddy standing over my shoulder, err beside me while on a lift. If you're a brake change and oil change kinda guy, this is for a shop.

      You'd be able to knock it out though.

      http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39.../448697?page=1
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      Quote Originally Posted by Phillie Phanatic
      SoS - please shoot a message when Brendan & His Retarded Sycophants has another gig. I’ll be there, front row.

    14. Geriatric Member ValveCoverGasket's Avatar
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      03-28-2017 12:38 PM #63
      on second thought, not something id wanna do without a lift, but it does look like the pan comes off in the car after you take the subframe off. i guess if it needs timing chains too maybe its easier to just pull everything out and do it without any gymnastics in the car hah


      i only skimmed this thread, but damn... why you so soft bearings?





      learn something new every day

    15. Member kiznarsh's Avatar
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      03-28-2017 12:46 PM #64
      Quote Originally Posted by MrCatRidesAPizzaTurtleWithACrunchyTaco View Post
      Also - y u no like my gif??
      Monica?

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      03-28-2017 12:53 PM #65
      Quote Originally Posted by kiznarsh View Post
      Monica?
      True story, he *actually* says my man in that scene.
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    17. Member kiznarsh's Avatar
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      03-28-2017 12:54 PM #66
      Quote Originally Posted by ValveCoverGasket View Post
      but damn... why you so soft bearings?
      That's why I was avoiding the higher mileage examples. I also read stories from a lot of people who changed theirs around 100k, but didn't need to after inspecting them. The PO has been using Liqui-Moly 10W-60 and that appears to help, which is also what I just put in during the recent change. I also don't plan on keeping the RPMs very high for extended periods (i.e. no track sessions) so right now I feel fairly comfortable with the situation.

    18. Don't be me. Don't be a 'Rick' Cabin Pics's Avatar
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      03-28-2017 03:49 PM #67
      Rabbit I think you just need to do the 948.

      Then you can haz reliable V8 and Porsche.
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      03-28-2017 03:49 PM #68
      Quote Originally Posted by Cabin Pics View Post
      Rabbit I think you just need to do the 948.

      Then you can haz reliable V8 and Porsche.
      bruh
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      03-28-2017 04:37 PM #69
      One of my all time favorite M cars. And amazing photos as always!
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    21. Member kiznarsh's Avatar
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      03-29-2017 02:20 AM #70
      Thanks GT.

      ...and we have parts.


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      03-29-2017 07:28 AM #71
      Quote Originally Posted by kiznarsh View Post

      And the de-icer reservoir was filled during the PPI which is unnecessary for me. You may have noticed the headlight washers aren't there. The PO didn't drill new holes for them when he got the new bumper cover, and I'm OK with it since I didn't see myself using them anyway. I still have the plumbing though.


      When I replaced my front bumper, I didn't drill the holes either. Short of living in canada and needing them for constant deicing, the headlight washers just make a mess of the front end of your car and use a lot of washer fluid.

    23. Member yeayeayea's Avatar
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      03-29-2017 07:43 AM #72
      So apparently:

      *In 2000 the M5 recommended 10w60.

      *People complained I guess that 10w60 was hard to find, as I believe this may have been one of the first motors to use the 10w60.

      *Around 2001 BMW changes recommended oil to 5w30 I believe.

      *Also around 2001 BMW begins offering complementary oil changes?

      *Also around 2001 oil change interval goes up to 15,000 miles?


      SO if all the above is true, it is possible that it was a cost cutting move by BMW to raise oil change intervals and switch the recommended oil to a cheaper, more available oil, at our rod bearings and valve seals expense. This is one of the main culprits for the E60 v8's notorious valve seal issues, the extended oil change intervals causes them to dry out and harden prematurely.


      I run Liquimoly 10w60 religiously, drive the car hard, and have no issues at 148k. Switching to 10w60 over the 5w30 definitely reduced how much oil the car consumes, as evident on the trunk of the car. Being alpine white, the back used to get covered in an oil exhaust film noticeably quicker on 5w30. And that is on a quite healthy S62 that put down 344whp/374wtq on a dyno at Frank Smiths shop, so this isn't some worn out example. They will consume some oil. Mine is due for replacement of all the oil separator hoses, I noticed they are quite soft when I had the plenum off to do the valve cover gasket and to replace a coil pack.


      I will highly recommend poly front thrust arm bushings. These are the first to wear out in the front and cause a lot of shimmying under braking. Also Poly rear front diff mount made shifting very crisp and precise, though my rear mount was arguably toast before. This car is made to be driven hard, and at least mine seems to like being driven in that manner.

      I have replaced every control arm on the car. The thrust arm bushings were the only ones really worn out, but I had been wanting an E39 m5 since I rode in a new one back in 2000ish, so I wanted mine to ride just like the one I rode in back when it was new so I bought the lemforder kits from FCPEuro and replaced them all (the full 20ish piece kit including the steering links). I have replaced the headlight lenses (old ones were hazy) and the headlight adjuster mounts, throttle body to plenum gaskets, both valve cover gaskets, a bunch of vacuum lines under the plenum, both TPS sensors (only 1 was bad), spark plugs, thermostat, 1 coilpack, rebuilt the entire driveshaft (guibo, bearing, pinion seal, driveshaft alignment bushing) front diff bushing, trans mounts, I have motor mounts pending install. Did trans and diff fluids as well (your transmission should have a sticker stating which oil to use, mine is a 2002 and required MTF-2)

      Of all that stuff, the only parts that have actually failed so far have been
      thermostat (was opening around 150* instead of 180*, so while the car wouldn't overheat, it took too long to warm up so it tripped the CEL)
      thrust arm bushings
      guibo/drive shaft bushing / pinion seal/ front diff mount
      1 TPS
      1 Coilpack
      oil separator hoses nearing end of life
      headlight leveling adjuster mounts
      valve cover gaskets

      If I had only replaced the parts that actually failed, that wouldn't really be a lot of maintenance at all for a 148k mile 15 year old car. I did all the other stuff because I wanted the car to ride like new, since I definitely couldn't afford one of these when they were new.

      I did all the work myself, in a gravel driveway on jackstands. None of it was particularly hard either. This isn't a hard car to work on. It is just somewhat overbuilt in areas. There are something like 63 nuts/bolts and like 8/9 hose clamps you have to remove just to get the plenum off to be able to do the valve cover gaskets. If you need pointers on DIY'ing any of the stuff i've listed feel free to shoot me a PM. Take lots of pictures of stuff as you take it apart so you can see exactly how it is supposed to go back together and you should be fine.

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      03-29-2017 09:11 AM #73
      Awesome Kiz.

      Quote Originally Posted by PizzaCat! View Post
      The real "bargain" score I guess would be a daily driver in the 150k range. I'm just talking out of my ass thinking about buying my german counterpart, now.
      I had one with 180k on it about 5 years ago.
      The entrance fee was cheap, the maintenance was not.

    25. Member fbobberts's Avatar
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      03-29-2017 10:39 AM #74
      Quote Originally Posted by ValveCoverGasket View Post
      on second thought, not something id wanna do without a lift, but it does look like the pan comes off in the car after you take the subframe off. i guess if it needs timing chains too maybe its easier to just pull everything out and do it without any gymnastics in the car hah


      i only skimmed this thread, but damn... why you so soft bearings?





      learn something new every day
      The issue is those heat up lights on the tach. They look so nice and give you such comfort. As a former owner of a high miles example I can tell you how to avoid the rods. You ignore those lights, because they are lying. You cannot start to beat on this car in any way until the oil gauge below the tach is above that first heat dot, at about the 1/4 to 1/3 point. Up until then you baby her and short shift her to keep her below 3000 rpm, and you don't engage the sport tune. This is much later than those lights would have you believe. Once the oil is at that dot on the oil temp gauge, or slightly above it, you can start to let her go.

      You can tell this if you own one because it's a completely different car warming up than it is once it's up to temp. But it takes a good five miles or so to be ready, sometimes more, which is why I say it's not a good daily driver, especially for shorter drives. But the valve system is driven by that oil, and the bottom end needs it, too. It's a hundred percent reliant on oil flow. I think the examples with the issues beat on the car the moment the lights said you could have the red line. But those lights are lying [email protected] The oil temp gauge is your real friend.
      I decided to calculate the actual cost of ownership in 3 years and 0 miles driven(maybe 2-3 miles pushed) the 951 cost me $3695.21(maintenance parts). If I was a betting men, I would bet that this is far from the total this 951 will cost me. (PawaK_2001)

      Quote Originally Posted by freedomgli View Post
      Good. Sometimes the only way to deal with knuckleheads is to have the lawyers duke it out.

    26. Member freedomgli's Avatar
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      03-29-2017 12:20 PM #75
      Quote Originally Posted by yeayeayea View Post
      When I replaced my front bumper, I didn't drill the holes either. Short of living in canada and needing them for constant deicing, the headlight washers just make a mess of the front end of your car and use a lot of washer fluid.
      It's an ECE requirement (ECE-R48 § 6.2.9) that cars with headlamps that output more than 2000 lumens have auto-leveling and headlamp washers. Most HIDs fall into this category. BMW probably figured it wasn't worth the effort to redesign the front bumper for US cars only.

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