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    Thread: 1981 Mars Red Scirocco S Barn Find (aka Time Capsule)

    1. Member
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      06-30-2019 08:55 PM #176
      So we started here


      Which led to here (can't find my image of the intermediate rust removal)


      Which led to this


      Then this


      Followed by this


      Which leaves us here..... I want to let it dry for a few days before I feather / wet sand and polish.

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    3. Member California 16v's Avatar
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      06-30-2019 10:41 PM #177
      Great update 👍
      02 VW Bora SW 1.8T (AWP) and 54 MG TF 1250 RHD (XPAG)
      ... Currently on the hunt for another Scirocco

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      07-01-2019 11:23 AM #178
      Ted, I'm either going to offend you because you know something about paint work that I don't know, or I'm gonna save the day. I hope the latter, IMO better to opine early in this case:

      With your current repair, you run a real risk or either under-feathering the hard tape line and the repair would remain easily visible, or worse, you'll accidentally work through the original paint just past the tape line which would be a plain ol' disaster.

      Options:

      1) If the paint and primer are from a rattle can and are applied to unabraded original paint, you likely can spend a few worthwhile hours rubbing it all off with a soft rag on one finger tip moistened (not soaked) with gasoline or mineral spirits, being careful not to soak or rub the original paint. The original paint is not gas proof but it is very resistant, which is what gives you this opportunity. Do not use anything in the paint thinner category or anything abrasive, you will remove the original paint. Be careful not to rub anything but the paint you applied, and do not tape off the original paint or the remaining sticker for this step; gas can soak under the tape and can't evaporate quickly, in which case you might cause harm.

      Then, if you only treated the actual rusted spots, touch them up with Epoxy primer and a small brush, and same with Mars Red paint from a jar, knowing that the repair would be visible only with the gas cap removed, and only past the sticker, but that all good original paint on the main part of the panel will show and be preserved.

      If you abraded larger areas in the gas cap recess and removed good original paint, hopefully you left all the original paint on the convexity of the metal and you can hide the paint transition with a circular (not a polygon as you've done) soft (not hard) tape line, so the transition is in the form of overspray hidden on the actual convexity of metal that you would then buff by hand. Such a repair would not risk the original paint on the main part of the panel. Any light that hits the convexity is so distorted by the shape of the metal that the repair would be very difficult to discern even by a pro who knew it was there.

      2) If you used Epoxy primer and/or catalyzed urethane over abraded (prepped) original paint, your layers cannot safely be removed without harming the original paint and your safest option is to just try to minimize the hard tape edge. Do not attempt to fully feather it (see above).

      To safely minimize the hard edge: tape off the original paint again and also tape off your layers except for the 1-2mm area that constitutes the actual raised paint edge. At most use 600 grit, folded twice to make a firm sanding edge, and work along the hard tape line paint to thin it down. After that, uncover only your layers and go finer grit and buff by hand, accepting that the edge will be present but minimized.

      If you've got some trick up you sleeve I've never seen, great, I'll learn something. If not, I hope I got here in time.

      Call me if you need to discuss further.
      It's hard for me to know exactly what these things cost me. I'm guessing a LOT, but I like them, so that's that.

    5. Member scirocco*joe's Avatar
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      07-01-2019 04:25 PM #179
      Typing as a guy *without* original paint, I'll let you two sort this out ^^^


      Quote Originally Posted by tuiterwyk View Post
      So I ordered new soft lines.
      These happen to be TRW brand.
      They don't thread all the way into the caliper..... (There's too much thread / several turns of thread are left exposed)

      So here's a comparison of old and new.
      Where can I source something correct ?

      I too would like to know if anyone else came upon this issue. Pre-Cincy I purchased rebuilt calipers and new rubber lines and when I was test fitting the lines in the calipers, I also "bottomed out" before the lines were snug against the caliper.

      1981 Scirocco 5MT
      2017 Golf Alltrack 4MO 6MT

      Philadelphia, PA

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      07-01-2019 05:32 PM #180
      Not offended, I guarantee that you know more about painting than I do.
      I don't think I'm going to be able to follow the gasoline route.

      Ideally I would've been able to stay within the interior of the opening but that was not the case in two areas.
      Once I started 'peeling it back', the rust was bigger 'under' the paint than was indicated in my original picture.

      I'm digesting your taping / sanding description.

      Will advise how I proceed.

      Ted

      Quote Originally Posted by echassin View Post
      Ted, I'm either going to offend you because you know something about paint work that I don't know, or I'm gonna save the day. I hope the latter, IMO better to opine early in this case:

      With your current repair, you run a real risk or either under-feathering the hard tape line and the repair would remain easily visible, or worse, you'll accidentally work through the original paint just past the tape line which would be a plain ol' disaster.

      Options:

      1) If the paint and primer are from a rattle can and are applied to unabraded original paint, you likely can spend a few worthwhile hours rubbing it all off with a soft rag on one finger tip moistened (not soaked) with gasoline or mineral spirits, being careful not to soak or rub the original paint. The original paint is not gas proof but it is very resistant, which is what gives you this opportunity. Do not use anything in the paint thinner category or anything abrasive, you will remove the original paint. Be careful not to rub anything but the paint you applied, and do not tape off the original paint or the remaining sticker for this step; gas can soak under the tape and can't evaporate quickly, in which case you might cause harm.

      Then, if you only treated the actual rusted spots, touch them up with Epoxy primer and a small brush, and same with Mars Red paint from a jar, knowing that the repair would be visible only with the gas cap removed, and only past the sticker, but that all good original paint on the main part of the panel will show and be preserved.

      If you abraded larger areas in the gas cap recess and removed good original paint, hopefully you left all the original paint on the convexity of the metal and you can hide the paint transition with a circular (not a polygon as you've done) soft (not hard) tape line, so the transition is in the form of overspray hidden on the actual convexity of metal that you would then buff by hand. Such a repair would not risk the original paint on the main part of the panel. Any light that hits the convexity is so distorted by the shape of the metal that the repair would be very difficult to discern even by a pro who knew it was there.

      2) If you used Epoxy primer and/or catalyzed urethane over abraded (prepped) original paint, your layers cannot safely be removed without harming the original paint and your safest option is to just try to minimize the hard tape edge. Do not attempt to fully feather it (see above).

      To safely minimize the hard edge: tape off the original paint again and also tape off your layers except for the 1-2mm area that constitutes the actual raised paint edge. At most use 600 grit, folded twice to make a firm sanding edge, and work along the hard tape line paint to thin it down. After that, uncover only your layers and go finer grit and buff by hand, accepting that the edge will be present but minimized.

      If you've got some trick up you sleeve I've never seen, great, I'll learn something. If not, I hope I got here in time.

      Call me if you need to discuss further.
      Last edited by tuiterwyk; 07-01-2019 at 07:18 PM.

    7. Member roccodingo's Avatar
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      07-01-2019 11:26 PM #181
      Quote Originally Posted by tuiterwyk View Post
      So I ordered new soft lines.
      These happen to be TRW brand.
      They don't thread all the way into the caliper..... (There's too much thread / several turns of thread are left exposed)

      So here's a comparison of old and new.
      Where can I source something correct ?

      I may just be having a super thick day today but the new hose has ample thread. It screws into the caliper and seals at the bottom taper ( far left end of hose in pic ) having a gap between the hex section and the caliper is fine, as long as its snugged down firmly so the seat seals ( no brake fluid leaks under pressure )

      Great progress you are making with this Ted, hope to be checking it out @ Cincy 2020
      If it aint a Mk1 then it's a donor....
      Brownrocco resto thread....http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/f55/...esto-2339.html
      Blueroc build... https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...y-from-America

    8. 07-03-2019 12:14 AM #182
      Quote Originally Posted by echassin View Post
      ...hopefully you left all the original paint on the convexity of the metal and you can hide the paint transition with a circular (not a polygon as you've done) soft (not hard) tape line, so the transition is in the form of overspray hidden on the actual convexity of metal that you would then buff by hand. Such a repair would not risk the original paint on the main part of the panel. Any light that hits the convexity is so distorted by the shape of the metal that the repair would be very difficult to discern even by a pro who knew it was there.
      ^^THIS. Soft tape lines FTW.

      Except... and although we know what you mean... I am gonna throw a flag on the word "convexity" Judges?

      Quote Originally Posted by roccodingo View Post
      I may just be having a super thick day today but the new hose has ample thread. It screws into the caliper and seals at the bottom taper ( far left end of hose in pic ) having a gap between the hex section and the caliper is fine, as long as its snugged down firmly so the seat seals ( no brake fluid leaks under pressure )
      I had exactly the same thoughts Grant... so either we're both thick (possible ), or we're both correct (probable )

      Also, and I say this just in case... never ever Teflon tape on brake system connections.
      no one cares what you think in real life...
      how do you figure the internet makes it any better.

    9. Member
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      07-13-2019 06:21 PM #183
      Quote Originally Posted by roccodingo View Post
      I may just be having a super thick day today but the new hose has ample thread. It screws into the caliper and seals at the bottom taper ( far left end of hose in pic ) having a gap between the hex section and the caliper is fine, as long as its snugged down firmly so the seat seals ( no brake fluid leaks under pressure )

      Great progress you are making with this Ted, hope to be checking it out @ Cincy 2020
      Well I learned some things about brake fittings this week.
      A gentleman that makes brake hoses for all sorts of vintage cars helped me get over my (unfounded) concerns.

      Evidently there is a (DOT) regulatory requirement that the fittings have at least 1/2 inch of thread, with no consideration for the depth of the fitting they are connecting into.
      I was trying to think of the fitting as a bolt, where the tension is created by 'stretching' the threads in tension via the bolt head.
      But a brake fitting is, as mentioned, 'pushing' against the threads to hold a seal against the mating surface. (This sentence makes sense in my head).
      So the exposed threads, while annoying, are 'normal'.

      In other news, the brake pads I received are not the correct ones for my ATE calipers....

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      08-04-2019 04:35 PM #184
      OK, got over my angst about brake hoses...
      And got the right pads for my calipers.
      So front suspension / brakes are done.




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      08-04-2019 04:38 PM #185
      And the fuel system roadblock has been removed.
      Rust inside the fuel filler 'pipe' was causing much mental anguish.

      It's amazing what's still out there if you look hard enough.




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      08-04-2019 05:55 PM #186
      Nos ftw!
      It's hard for me to know exactly what these things cost me. I'm guessing a LOT, but I like them, so that's that.

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      08-10-2019 06:48 PM #187
      So guesses what this tool is for ?





      It's apparently the 'official' tool for installing fuel tank senders.


      So fuel tank is installed, accumulator and pump are next.

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      08-11-2019 01:51 PM #188
      OK, fuel pump and accumulator are in.
      So on to the rear beam:



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      08-11-2019 03:50 PM #189
      Nice

    16. Member vwleadfoot's Avatar
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      08-12-2019 08:03 AM #190
      Ted, I would seriously consider painting those drums black. If they're bare steel right now they'll be rusty in a month just from condensation.

      That is a truly beautiful tank sheild you have there. I wish mine looked like that when I redid it. I had to paint mine because it had lost all of its cad yellow.
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      08-12-2019 08:05 AM #191
      Quote Originally Posted by vwleadfoot View Post
      Ted, I would seriously consider painting those drums black. If they're bare steel right now they'll be rusty in a month just from condensation.

      That is a truly beautiful tank sheild you have there. I wish mine looked like that when I redid it. I had to paint mine because it had lost all of its cad yellow.
      Yeah I need to do something...already starting.

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      08-12-2019 08:32 AM #192
      Looking very impressive Ted. You are smashing this along man

      Are you ordering parts as you progress with the build or have these been stashed some time ago ??
      If it aint a Mk1 then it's a donor....
      Brownrocco resto thread....http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/f55/...esto-2339.html
      Blueroc build... https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...y-from-America

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      08-12-2019 12:02 PM #193
      Quote Originally Posted by roccodingo View Post
      Looking very impressive Ted. You are smashing this along man

      Are you ordering parts as you progress with the build or have these been stashed some time ago ??
      I acquired most of them last fall as I ramped up, some of them I'm acquiring as the need is identified (gas tank filler for example).

      However, that bulk purchase last fall has led to some challenges.

      For example, I purchased a Techtonics shifter rebuild / upgrade kit.
      Could NOT find it.
      So I ordered another one.
      Then, last week, I found the first kit.
      Fortunately the Zender needs a shifter rebuild / upgrade, so not a loss there.

      Another challenge is that I bought a Techtonics exhaust and a different brand of header.
      Tried installing the exhaust and the two items are not playing well together.
      So now sorting that out almost a year later.....
      Last edited by tuiterwyk; 08-18-2019 at 09:44 PM.

    20. Member vwleadfoot's Avatar
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      08-12-2019 01:50 PM #194
      Quote Originally Posted by tuiterwyk View Post
      I acquired most of them last fall as I ramped up, some of them I'm acquiring as the need is identified (gas tank filler for example).



      Another challenge is that I bought a Techtonics exhaust and a different brand of header.
      Tried installing the exhaust and the two items are not playing well together.
      So now sorting that out almost a year later.....
      That's 's because you need this----

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      08-13-2019 10:36 AM #195
      Quote Originally Posted by tuiterwyk View Post
      Could NOT find it.
      So I ordered another one.
      BTDT
      Quote Originally Posted by roccodingo View Post
      Looking very impressive Ted. You are smashing this along man
      x2, looking like a new car!

      Quote Originally Posted by vwleadfoot View Post
      Ted, I would seriously consider painting those drums black. If they're bare steel right now they'll be rusty in a month just from condensation.

      That is a truly beautiful tank sheild you have there. I wish mine looked like that when I redid it. I had to paint mine because it had lost all of its cad yellow.
      I also did the drums black and I painted my heat shield with a wet coat of silver followed immediately by a misting of gold. It looks very real (and it's permanent). Hopefully in time these will be considered acceptable "upgrades" .
      It's hard for me to know exactly what these things cost me. I'm guessing a LOT, but I like them, so that's that.

    22. 08-14-2019 08:02 AM #196
      Quote Originally Posted by tuiterwyk View Post
      While this continues soaking in EvapoRust
      Hi, this is good stuff. I'm hoping you checked the rubber seal at the bottom of the in-tank filter chamber / trap-door swirl pot thing. I had to cut my tank open to repair that- there is a rubber disc which turns to dust, possibly due to ethanol in the fuel. If it failed then you may get fuel starvation in corners, and the pump will take in lots of debris because the filter is bypassed from below

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      08-14-2019 08:17 AM #197
      Quote Originally Posted by chopperoli View Post
      Hi, this is good stuff. I'm hoping you checked the rubber seal at the bottom of the in-tank filter chamber / trap-door swirl pot thing. I had to cut my tank open to repair that- there is a rubber disc which turns to dust, possibly due to ethanol in the fuel. If it failed then you may get fuel starvation in corners, and the pump will take in lots of debris because the filter is bypassed from below
      The interior of the tank was pretty clean, I checked it as much as possible without disassembling the tank.
      That was also one of the reasons I went with EvapoRust instead of another chemical, everything I could find indicated that it would not harm the rubber / etc.

      This is the interior of the tank before I treated it with anything


      And just for fun, this is the interior of the (other) tank that came out of the car

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      08-18-2019 09:39 PM #198
      So, no surprise to anyone, the pin in this is frozen SOLID!

      Off to figure out a replacement.


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      08-18-2019 09:41 PM #199
      In the category of forward progress, I have an exhaust solution.
      Media blasted and ready for paint.
      Then waiting on a new downpipe.




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      08-19-2019 04:58 AM #200
      Quote Originally Posted by tuiterwyk View Post
      So, no surprise to anyone, the pin in this is frozen SOLID!

      Off to figure out a replacement.

      Penetrating oil. You can grip the outer part with vice grips because the part that is sticking out doesn't need to maintain a seal. When you get it out, you can soak the plunger but don't sand it or anything else. The part that is inside does need to seal and you will ruin it if you buff it.

      You can find rebuild kits on ebay if you search by the Bosch number or the VW part number. When you take it apart, everything has to go back in the same place it came out of. (Everything including springs and other things you have more than one of.) You have to mark the barrel to make sure you reinstall it the same way also. At the very least you need to make sure the slits in the barrel point at the fuel passages.

      If something was screwed in, you need to count and write down the number of turns to remove it so you can put it back together the same exact way. (Except screws of course.)

      You can also find plenty of used Fuel Distributers on ebay and maybe even some new or rebuilt ones.

      I'd rebuild yours though. A used one is probably going to be just as gunked up or almost as bad. New and rebuilt ones are usually very. very expensive. You might get lucky.
      Last edited by 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN; 08-19-2019 at 05:02 AM.

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