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    Thread: Vr6 in a mercedes-benz

    1. Member Junkyarddawg's Avatar
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      07-14-2017 04:22 PM #1
      We have been searching the web for a while now and cant seem to find any subject matter on the title. Seems like people have been swapping VRs into just about everything for all the right reasons, its compact, light weight, potent and relatively inexpensive, (in 12 valve configurations), not to mention the awesome exhaust sound that it makes and the abundance of aftermarket performance parts available. Unfortunately, for Mercedes-Benz enthusiasts, all those reasons are not the case and most are stuck settling for an AMG version or a modified car from companies like Renntech or Kleeman, to name a few, all of which are very expensive and out of reach for most working class folks. Even though many of those AMG performance cars, of 10 or so years ago, can be found at reasonable prices today the cost of repairing an engine in one can be outrageously expensive and people who bought them did not buy them to "take it easy" on them or expect them to go a million miles like the old diesel cars would. So after doing some research we were pleasantly surprised to find out that volkswagen had collaborated with Mercedes-Benz sometime in the late nineties and supplied them with a VR6 powertrain, (M104.900) which was used to power the MB european V280 vans. The MB vans were all front wheel drive and, as far as we can see, no rear wheel drive or AWD versions were produced with the VR6 engine. Fast forward to today and we decided that a RWD MB with a VR6 sounds like fun so it was an easy decision to try and swap one when our 2002 C230 Kompressor engine overheated and damaged the cylinder head. What wasnt so easy was that it appears as thou we are the only Idiots on the planet that could have envisioned or attempted such a swap and no support exists on the web. Now that we are the pioneers of this madness we will try to share the challenges of the shade tree build with the Vortex community, for those who are interested. Please keep in mind that we are hobbyists just like many of you and we are not professionals, we are not an engineering firm nor do we have access to any specialized equipment, hardware or software. We understand that there are better ways of doing things and are receptive to any and all positive comments and suggestions. By the way, if someone knows someone who has "been there, done that", specific to this exact swap, feel free to chime in and share the details. Also, this will be an off road, stage 2 or 3 big turbo, swap retaining the Mercedes Benz (716.668) 6 speed manual transmission. Will keep fingers crossed.
      [IMG][/IMG]
      VR6 recipient chassis, CL230K (203.747) non sunroof auto car will be converted to 6 speed manual (716.668)
      [IMG][/IMG]
      VR6 mock up engine mounted in the chassis.
      [IMG][/IMG]
      [IMG][/IMG]
      VR6 engine mated to MB 6 speed manual transmission with prototype adapter plate in 3/4 plywood and mounted into chassis for oil pump mods and oil pan fitting.
      [IMG][/IMG]
      Low budget home made "rear sump" oil pan mounted on VR6 engine.
      [IMG][/IMG]
      24V VR6 6 speed DMF opened up to remove ring gear and install MB M111 automatic ring gear.
      [IMG][/IMG]
      24V DMF after cutting a step in it with a brake lathe
      [IMG][/IMG]
      24V DMF after pressing MB automatic ring gear on to it, ready to be welded and reassembled..
      More to come...

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    3. Member Junkyarddawg's Avatar
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      07-29-2017 08:21 PM #2
      So we have a small update on this import rat rod project. Obviously there is not much room between the rear of the engine and the fire wall bulkhead so a factory thermostat housing coolant flange is out of the question and we are trying to swap this thing without modifying the sheet metal. We shaped a piece of .250 plate steel to mount at the back of the cylinder head then cut and welded a long 90 degree 1.5 inch i.d EMT elbow onto it to form a upper hose connection. We found a steel coolant pipe on a 2.0L DSM engine fits at the VR6 water pump inlet very nicely and has the o-ring retainer groove and mounting bracket built into it as well. After cutting the pipe off half way through the first turn we found a steel coolant pipe from a 22RE could be cut and welded to the DSM piece to bring forward a lower hose connection below the alternator as we will not be using AC on this car. Initially we will run the engine without a thermostat to see how it does, if needed we can install a inline thermostat or restrictor later. Wonder if anyone has "ever" tried this?
      [IMG][/IMG]

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      07-31-2017 12:21 PM #3
      Hell yeah!

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    6. Member Junkyarddawg's Avatar
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      08-06-2017 08:46 PM #4
      Quote Originally Posted by Slowgti-reboot View Post
      Hell yeah!
      Hey Slowgti thanks for the enthusiasm we need all we can get...
      And here is another small update that should help with motivation....
      [IMG][/IMG]
      We got a chance to slap a hot side manifold together so a HX35 Holeset could be fitted to the engine and car.
      [IMG][/IMG]
      Nothin fancy, just needed something that will work and last for a little while.
      Started out with a old 2 inch ID cross over pipe from a 7.3TD and cut the flanges off it cause they fit the VR6 mani after opening up the bolt holes, then we cut up the GTI down pipe and pieced it all together with the merge stepped down to 1 5/8 into a piece of 4 inch C-channel cut out for the twin scroll HX35. Its gonna get a brace from the engine mount bracket to the C-channel flange.
      [IMG][/IMG]

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      08-08-2017 02:41 PM #5
      You guys are bonkers. I love it!

    8. Member theprf's Avatar
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      08-09-2017 03:39 PM #6
      I would also check out the fore/aft VR6's found in Touaregs, Q7's and Cayennes for how VW did this.

      If you want all the parts off a Touareg VR6 that were used for fore/aft mount I have them - and you can have them for shipping costs. I swapped the Touareg engine into a longitudinal VW and do not need the leftover parts.

    9. Member Junkyarddawg's Avatar
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      08-09-2017 10:45 PM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by soeurotrash View Post
      You guys are bonkers. I love it!
      Hey, soeurotrash, Thanks for the support we really appreciate it!

      Quote Originally Posted by theprf View Post
      I would also check out the fore/aft VR6's found in Touaregs, Q7's and Cayennes for how VW did this.

      If you want all the parts off a Touareg VR6 that were used for fore/aft mount I have them - and you can have them for shipping costs. I swapped the Touareg engine into a longitudinal VW and do not need the leftover parts.
      Hey, theprf, we knew there would be lots of good people on here and we want to thank you for the awesome gesture on the Toureg stuff.
      We made some measurements, in the begining, thinking that the toureg stuff or maybe the VR5 stuff would work, but the engine sits lower in the chassis and in order to keep the driveline angles within specification we had to make somethin up. If you look at what we did its just some 3 inch angle that we had laying around and a little imagination.

      Like many of you in the swap threads area, we are trying to put something unique together on a budget and if we take the "Budget" out of it then it will just be a dream.
      Lots of brain storming on different ways to do things is half the battle and half the fun. Just remember the guys who are doing the swaps and trying something different are adding variety to the hobby.

      We think that swapping German engines in German cars is a Loyal thing to do regardless of the German manufacturer and a swap that involves two manufacturers that have historicaly collaborated together makes it even sweeter.

      Please keep the comments and suggestions coming, it really helps....
      More updates will follow

    10. Member theprf's Avatar
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      08-10-2017 12:49 PM #8
      I was thinking more of the Touareg thermostat housing & coolant pipes - you are going to need a thermostat or it's going to run cold & rich all the time. The T-reg coolant outlet pipe runs under the exhaust manifolds, so the opposite side of the engine. Maybe that won't work with your radiator.

      Also the touareg oil pan looks about the same as the one you fabbed up, it's got a deeper pump pickup as well. It's WAY too deep for a transverse engine car. I tossed the touareg oil pan in the trash I think but I kept the oil pump.

      The touareg shorty exhaust manifolds are welded stainless steel instead of cast iron and point more straight downward as I remember, At first I was thinking you could cut the flanges off and weld pipes straight to the manifolds, then I remembered they won't fit your 12V head without a lot of work. and it looks like you have a good thing going there already.

      BTW I really like the looks of the C230 and I would have bought one back when. It looks like a slightly updated RWD Corrado. Then I found out that it's a real dog performance wise. The C320 didn't offer a manual trans. so that was out too. You are addressing that with a VR & manual trans swap, ought to be a fun car when it's done!

    11. Member Junkyarddawg's Avatar
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      08-10-2017 09:53 PM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by theprf View Post
      I was thinking more of the Touareg thermostat housing & coolant pipes - you are going to need a thermostat or it's going to run cold & rich all the time. The T-reg coolant outlet pipe runs under the exhaust manifolds, so the opposite side of the engine. Maybe that won't work with your radiator.

      Also the touareg oil pan looks about the same as the one you fabbed up, it's got a deeper pump pickup as well. It's WAY too deep for a transverse engine car. I tossed the touareg oil pan in the trash I think but I kept the oil pump.

      The touareg shorty exhaust manifolds are welded stainless steel instead of cast iron and point more straight downward as I remember, At first I was thinking you could cut the flanges off and weld pipes straight to the manifolds, then I remembered they won't fit your 12V head without a lot of work. and it looks like you have a good thing going there already.

      BTW I really like the looks of the C230 and I would have bought one back when. It looks like a slightly updated RWD Corrado. Then I found out that it's a real dog performance wise. The C320 didn't offer a manual trans. so that was out too. You are addressing that with a VR & manual trans swap, ought to be a fun car when it's done!
      We may try to do a 3.2 toureg motor swap in one of these coupes after we sort all of it out with a 12 valve. The local LKQ JY gets the touregs in frequently so an engine package is only $375 which is cheap for that much German technology, might even go for a 3.6 FSI, who knows...
      Back in 2001 when the W203 C class cars came out the styling was pretty cool but the price of the cars have been prohibitive, until now, now you can get one needing repairs but running and driving for $1500. All German cars need repairs and until you sort them out it will seem like one thing after another, but once you do it is well worth the effort. German cars are not for everybody and if someone is coming out of a japanese car, for example, they may be very disappointed and get sick of having to work on it or worse go broke paying somebody to "keep fixing it" which leads to the horror stories you hear about on the web. What I find amazing is how German car hobbyists will go to great lengths to fix up or modify a car and never once "complain" about it. German cars have problems that japanese cars dont and all those problems are what make the hobby more educational and stimulating. I think that these MB coupes never got their claim to fame in the performance tuner world because MB stuff just costs too much, they usually dont take well to modifications and because of that many people just dismissed them as a womans car. I think the color of the car is what makes the difference on these, not like an RX300 or RX350 that looks like a womans vehicle regardless of what color it is, no disrespect, Lexus is good quality equipment. Anyway, we got started on an intake manifold for this thing and not unlike everything else we have done so far it involves using stuff we had laying around and resisting the temptation to spend money, hire an engineering firm or order expensive parts.
      [IMG][/IMG]
      Started with a piece of 3/16 steel plate and outlined it with a MK3 VR6 lower to upper intake gasket.
      [IMG][/IMG]
      [IMG][/IMG]
      Then drilled out the ports with a 1.5 inch hole saw, drilled and tapped the plate for 8x1.25mm bolts, and drilled out the threads from the lower manifold so the bolts could pass through from the bottom.
      [IMG][/IMG]
      Then we took the tail pipe from an old Duramax and cut out a section that had a 45 degree bend in it and mocked it all up in the car.
      [IMG][/IMG]
      We used the 4 inch exhaust pipe to give it a "wow factor", and because it fits, but plan on puttin some sort of flow director inside it to reduce resonance and plenum volume.
      [IMG][/IMG]
      Will post up the details and finished product when its done.

    12. Member Junkyarddawg's Avatar
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      08-10-2017 10:20 PM #10
      Oh, forgot to mention that the pedal box swap on this car was absolute "cake", by far the easiest we have seen, compared to others we have done.[IMG][/IMG]
      [IMG][/IMG]
      [IMG][/IMG]
      All of the holes for the hydraulic lines and hoses are present in the automatic car, just had to remove the rubber plugs and feed the lines through. The pedal cluster is held up by three easy to get to bolts and an easily accessible brake rod pin clip. This stuff was probably the only "brake" we will get on this swap.

    13. Member theprf's Avatar
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      08-11-2017 12:20 PM #11
      You can use all the Touareg cooling parts on a 12V VR, everything swaps over easily. If you want to go that route that is. The thermostat housing connection on the head is identical on all 2.8 12V, 2.8 24V and 3.2 VR's.

      You could put some velocity stacks in that plenum. It's got the room!

    14. Member Junkyarddawg's Avatar
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      08-11-2017 10:31 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by theprf View Post
      You can use all the Touareg cooling parts on a 12V VR, everything swaps over easily. If you want to go that route that is. The thermostat housing connection on the head is identical on all 2.8 12V, 2.8 24V and 3.2 VR's.

      You could put some velocity stacks in that plenum. It's got the room!
      I was looking at the coolant pipe setup that has the t-stat poking out about halfway down, I think its the 3.6 motor, but I saw that it has a different flange at the back of the head which sits up closer to the engine. This type of setup is what I would need for this but were just gonna make parts for now cause there is no room at the back of the engine.

      We were thinking about putting stacks in the plenum but were not sure that it needs them with a forced induction setup?, so were gonna just "try it".
      [IMG][/IMG]
      [IMG][/IMG]
      We put a small angle on the end cap and still need to cap the throttle body end but need to get the 3.2 toureg t-body in hand to clock the bolt holes.
      [IMG][/IMG]
      [IMG][/IMG]
      Were gonna port the head and put TT 276 wide lobe sep cams in and thinking about putting a 3.2 throttle body on there too, were goin for a dual purpose car, drag/drift, but it will be a full interior car with a moly cage. Once we get it going and see if it starts breaking sh*t we will refine the weak and ugly stuff.

    15. Member Junkyarddawg's Avatar
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      09-02-2017 09:29 PM #13
      We finally got the 3.2L throttle body from a 2004 Toureg the throttle bore is 75mm compared to the 2.8L unit at 65mm. Took a picture with several t-bodys to show some differences for those who are not familiar.
      [IMG][/IMG]
      3.2L VW unit at bottom right, 2.8L 12valve directly above it, 2.3L Kompressor Mercedes top right, 3.2L Inline 6 Mercedes bottom left, 2.0L VW AEG ramped unit top left.
      [IMG][/IMG]
      We made a flange with a 3 to 4 inch transition that fits into the manifold pipe with slight interference.
      [IMG][/IMG]
      Then we did some shade tree flow testing and found that when clocking the throttle body so that the flow dumps into the short side radius there was relatively equal pressure flow to all the runners from upper part throttle to full throttle and thats were we welded it onto the manifold pipe end.
      [IMG][/IMG]
      We also managed to finish up the flywheel, here are the details...
      [IMG][/IMG]
      [IMG][/IMG]
      [IMG][/IMG]
      The 24 valve VR6 6 speed dual mass flywheel was converted to a solid flywheel by welding the damper drive plate to the outer shell, a Mercedes M111 automatic ring gear was welded to the outer shell, the friction surface plate was tapped and helicoiled so the unit could be bolted back together. The process took a while because you have to perform run out checks on everything, every step of the way, but in the end we had .005" run out on the friction surface and .012" on the ring gear. The next step is to re-balance the unit.

    16. Member Junkyarddawg's Avatar
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      12-21-2017 10:21 PM #14
      Latest update on this project for those who may be interested.
      We started working on crafting an adapter plate for the engine to trans and realized that we were going to need some equipment to get it done. So we picked up a lathe and a turret mill off craigslist, CHEAP, and took a crash course on machining by watching lots of youtube videos. Finally found a local metal supply house to get the 3/4 inch T6061 aluminum plate which we had already prototyped from a piece of pressure treated plywood for the initial setup. In order to get the square plate into basic form we used a skill saw with a carbide tipped plywood blade to do all the straight rough cuts.
      [IMG][/IMG]
      After getting the basic shape with a skill saw we used the manual milling machine to shape the contours by hand with a 5/8 end mill and it wasn't that hard to do once you get the hang of it. Not as pretty as CNC but not as expensive either.
      [IMG][/IMG]
      Next we moved on to the tricky part, setting up the center lines and the locating pin holes,
      [IMG][/IMG]
      In order to cut out the center hole we needed a rotary table so we made one out of a some stuff we had laying around, a MK4 front brake rotor, wheel flange, and CV stub axle fitted to 7.5:1 reduction box and mounted to a steel bracket and this allowed us to cut out the large center hole with a 1/4 inch end mill.
      [IMG][/IMG]
      We cut steps in the outer edge of the inner circle so a radius could be cut near the end to promote strength and the 1/2 inch radius was then formed with a carbide router bit.
      [IMG][/IMG]
      [IMG][/IMG]
      Then it was on to the starter holes and this was the most challenging step. In order to mount the summit racing small block chevy starter we first took the mounting plate off the starter and used just the drive unit to determine the centerline by meshing it into the flywheel, mounted to the engine, from the trans side and marking the spot for the hole.
      [IMG][/IMG]
      In order to fortify the weak area around the starter we incorporated a steel starter mounting plate that slips in between the engine block and adapter plate and to provide additional support we modified a small block chevy alternator brace to go from the right side engine mount arm to the starter mounting bracket. This was an area that would be subjected to some flexing in this application.
      [IMG][/IMG]
      [IMG][/IMG]
      We connected a battery with some jumper cables and a starter button to test the setup and it works very nice.
      More updates coming
      Thanks for lookin>>

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      12-25-2017 10:16 PM #15
      I've got nothing better to do that to look at thread and I stumbled on this one.

      Who told you that VW collaborated with Mercedes on the M104.900 engine? I'm not 100% but I'm real close to that number, in the fact that VW never had their hand in that engine. The 104 engine was a 4 valve engine that started from the 103 engine which is related to the 102 engine. The 102 engine came to the US in 1984 and I'm certain it was in Europe a few years before they dumped it on the US.

      I'm also wondering how you are going to get around the EIS portion of the engine starting. The EIS does have a circuit 50 if I recall and circuit 50 is generated by the ME ECU [which you will not have]. I'm just curious because for me, that is the entire challenge of your project.

      Hats off to you for jumping in the deep end of the pool and treading water.

    18. Member Junkyarddawg's Avatar
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      01-06-2018 10:44 PM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by Butcher View Post
      I've got nothing better to do that to look at thread and I stumbled on this one.

      Who told you that VW collaborated with Mercedes on the M104.900 engine? I'm not 100% but I'm real close to that number, in the fact that VW never had their hand in that engine. The 104 engine was a 4 valve engine that started from the 103 engine which is related to the 102 engine. The 102 engine came to the US in 1984 and I'm certain it was in Europe a few years before they dumped it on the US.

      I'm also wondering how you are going to get around the EIS portion of the engine starting. The EIS does have a circuit 50 if I recall and circuit 50 is generated by the ME ECU [which you will not have]. I'm just curious because for me, that is the entire challenge of your project.

      Hats off to you for jumping in the deep end of the pool and treading water.
      Thanks for that

      Take a look on Wikipedia and search vr6, I think you will find the information regarding the 104.900 engine designation, it has nothing to do with the MB 104 inline 6 and looks like MB just arbitrarily assigned the engine number to it so they could specify parts through the EPC system. Mercedes EPC still shows all the parts for the VR6 (M104.900) engine and the Mercedes WIS workshop information system provides complete workshop information for it as well.
      The Mercedes DAS3 EIS system works a little differently than some may realize, as long as a valid electronic key is inserted into the EIS it will do 3 things,1 the steering lock will unlock,2 the key will turn in the ignition switch, 3 the circuit 50 hard line to the starter relay will be energized, and CAN messages will be sent, and the starter will crank the engine. ME2.8 and SIM4 modules will allow the engine to start up, and run initially, as it receives the "start auth" signal but if ME does not receive a valid rolling code from EIS then ME will shut the engine down. The EIS does not shut the engine down directly. In our case all we need is for the EIS to crank the engine up and then the VAG ME7.1 module will run the engine as it will be "immo off". There will be other issues that will need to be addressed to get the CAN network happy and instruments to function. We will reveal those solutions as we resolve those issues. The best part about this project is that it will be "OFF ROAD" and that makes some things a little easier and other things way easier.

      Here are a few details on some progress we have made on the oiling system
      [IMG][/IMG]
      After some brain storming sessions we decided to machine the custom oil pump cover by hand, it incorporates an adjustable pressure regulator setup and a modified pickup tube and screen from a big block chevy oil pump.
      [IMG] [/IMG]
      The windage tray from a Mercedes M111 engine was trimmed to fit and bolt holes were drilled and tapped in the vr6 engine block to retain the tray.
      [IMG] [/IMG]
      Thanks for looking

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      01-09-2018 10:40 AM #17
      I see what you are saying about the VR6 and the Mercedes use of that engine. That is something I did not know [but then again, they were not shipped to the USA either]. I can see that Mercedes would use the existing engine number 104, but that is just plain old stupid since there is nothing related to the 104 engine. Usually Mercedes has a method to their way of doing things, but the method of making it part of the 104 family must have been done in October

      You are correct with the way EIS works and I look forward for you to jump thru the hoops to get this going.

    20. Member theprf's Avatar
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      01-09-2018 12:16 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by Junkyarddawg View Post
      Thanks for that
      Here are a few details on some progress we have made on the oiling system
      [IMG][/IMG]
      If you're going to run any RPM at all you are going to want to open up those oil suction ports and smooth the transitions, or you're going to end up with the oil pump cavitating with no oil pressure. Really you want a straight shot from the pickup screen to the pump gears like the original suction tube. Two 90* bends... I'd be very cautious.

    21. Member Junkyarddawg's Avatar
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      01-31-2018 08:19 PM #19
      The project is moving along, not as fast as we would like but at least some progress...
      We needed to take the engine apart to inspect it cause we had no idea where it came from and while the head was off we decided to take a shot at some bowl blending and a valve job[IMG][/IMG
      We did some shade tree research in order to understand how the runners and ports work with the injectors, then performed some minor mods
      [IMG] [/IMG]
      We sunk the exhaust valves
      [IMG][/IMG]
      Then tipped them to spec and made spring seat shims to correct the installed height
      [IMG][/IMG]
      [IMG][/IMG]
      Next move was to the pistons, we wanted to lower the compression without a spacer cause we didn't want to lose quench, we also couldn't afford turbo pistons so we decided to modify the stock pistons.
      [IMG][/IMG]
      First we chamfered the quench pad to "open" the combustion chamber..
      [IMG][/IMG]
      Then we opened the eyebrows up to get more piston to valve clearance and increase the CC`s
      [IMG][/IMG]
      These mods added approximately 10cc of volume to the combustion chamber. We cc`d the piston in the cylinder at TDC and measured 50cc with the top ring installed and the slug .020" down.
      We didn't have the tool to hold the crankshaft damper so we made one out of an old socket and a steel bar,
      [IMG] [/IMG]
      The crank and the bearings all look new and measure consistently so we will reuse them but will install ARP rod bolts, main and head studs and will hone the block and replace the rings.
      We are not able to use the stock oil filter housing because it interferes with the steering shaft and our left side engine mount arm covers the out/in ports for the housing, so we decided to run an external oil filter and cooler and will plumb it all through the factory oil cooler ports. That means we will drill the passageway straight through and plug the filter housing ports behind the engine mount arm with sheet metal plugs.
      [IMG][/IMG]
      A drill bit was made for this operation,
      [IMG] [/IMG]
      We are shooting to have the engine ready to install in coming weeks and will provide updates as we progress
      Thanks for the replies and thanks for looking....

    22. Member Junkyarddawg's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 4th, 2013
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      Central Florida
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      1996 GTI 2.0T ABA,1994 E420,1998 E300TD, 2001 A6 2.7T, 2000 GTI VRT GT35/82R
      02-27-2018 08:12 PM #20
      We had a few more updates on the vehicle.
      Needed to revise the coolant pipe,
      [IMG][/IMG]
      so we made a thermostat housing that sandwiches in between the block and the coolant pipe, and made gaskets to seal it up.
      [IMG] [/IMG]
      we also removed the coolant temp sensor bung from an old AFC coolant pipe and welded it into our pipe and threaded a coolant return hose nipple into the pipe for the oil cooler coolant line.
      [IMG][/IMG]
      We modified an oil filter take off plate by threading it for oil pressure and temperature sensors. The plate was mounted to the oil cooler with the threaded pipe and nut from a 2.8 AFC motor. Note: The "IN" and "OUT" oil circuit flows opposite direction on a VR6 because the oil cooler never had a filter mounted onto it, unlike a 2.7T for example, which has the filter screwed onto the oil cooler pipe. Most of the VR gurus know this already.
      [IMG][/IMG]
      We modified an external oil filter housing from a chevy Blazer so it will hold a 2.7T oil filter and made custom oil lines to connect up the RX8 oil cooler..
      [IMG][/IMG]
      A MK4 power steering reservoir and supply hose were fitted and the Mercedes ps pressure line bolted directly into the VW ps pump..
      [IMG] [/IMG]
      An adapter was made for the brake booster the allows for a MK3 non-abs master cylinder to be utilized. The hard lines will be cut, bent and re-flared to fit...
      [IMG][/IMG]
      [IMG][/IMG]
      A gas pedal bracket was made so the modified MK4 pedal can be used..
      [IMG][/IMG]
      [IMG] [/IMG]
      We decided to weld the internal wastegate closed and fitted up an external gate...
      [IMG] [/IMG]
      We are working on integrating the wiring harness..
      [IMG][/IMG]
      stay tuned and thanks for looking...

    23. Member theprf's Avatar
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      Sep 21st, 2007
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      Central MA
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      Down to 3x VR Corrado, '78 S30 280Z, '03 911 Turbo
      02-28-2018 09:46 AM #21
      Uhm, where you have fitted the thermostat you are not going to have any coolant circulation at all until the t-stat opens. You really need a bypass pipe between the head's outlet and the water pump inlet or you are likely to melt down the head.

    24. Member Junkyarddawg's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 4th, 2013
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      1996 GTI 2.0T ABA,1994 E420,1998 E300TD, 2001 A6 2.7T, 2000 GTI VRT GT35/82R
      02-28-2018 09:48 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by theprf View Post
      Uhm, where you have fitted the thermostat you are not going to have any coolant circulation at all until the t-stat opens. You really need a bypass pipe between the head's outlet and the water pump inlet or you are likely to melt down the head.
      I'm sure you are correct regarding closed t-stat or cold engine operation and thanks for the advice.
      We drilled four 1/8 inch holes, two above and two below, (1/2"total area) in the t-stat to make sure some coolant will always flow over it and to help prevent air pockets. In reviewing the coolant circuit diagram for the MK4 GTI AFP engine, and studying the coolant flange, it looks like the bypass occurs in the t-stat housing via a small hole that is closed off by the two stage t-stat as the main circuit disc opens. (If our understanding of this is incorrect please clarify) Our car will not have a heater core so we routed it to flow from the heater nipple, on the top rear of the head, back to the coolant reservoir and the coolant reservoir tee's directly back into the lower radiator hose, and this circuit also flows all the time. We also routed the oil cooler coolant circuit out and into the upper radiator hose to carry the heat from the oil back to the radiator, instead of back into the water pump, because we are in Florida and, this is not a street car I'm not sure we need the coolant to heat the oil up when we can just warm the car up before taking it down the strip. The RX8 oil cooler also has a thermostat that limits flow through the cooler until the oil is hot. It just seems to make more sense that the heat from the oil cooler should be returned to the radiator but we may put a restrictor in that line so it doesn't drop the lpm flow to the head. We should have an idea of the system performance pretty soon and will report on any fails.

    25. Member theprf's Avatar
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      Down to 3x VR Corrado, '78 S30 280Z, '03 911 Turbo
      03-08-2018 12:51 PM #23
      The stock coolant circuit on these engines is pretty simple.

      Supply to the heater core comes from the fitting on the top of the head.
      The trapezoidal outlet from the head is connected to the top radiator hose and to the return from the heater core. The temp sensors are in this flow, too. The coolant expansion tank is plumbed in here as well.

      The thermostat does two things:
      When cold, the thermostat opens a bypass from the trapezoidal head outlet to the water pump inlet. When hot this bypass is closed.
      When hot, the thermostat opens a passage from the bottom radiator hose to the water pump inlet. When cold, this passage is closed.
      These passages & bypasses are in the OEM thermostat housing.

      I think you're going to need to find a way to duplicate that, or it will take a really long time to warm up. I can think of a few different ways to do this, all of which are too complicated to explain in words.
      I'm assuming you cannot use an OE thermostat housing because the engine is too close to the firewall?

    26. Member Junkyarddawg's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 4th, 2013
      Location
      Central Florida
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      1996 GTI 2.0T ABA,1994 E420,1998 E300TD, 2001 A6 2.7T, 2000 GTI VRT GT35/82R
      03-25-2018 05:46 PM #24
      We are getting close and wanted to give an update and some of the details...
      Because we are running ME7.1 management a MAF sensor pipe had to be made.
      [IMG][/IMG]
      The fresh air intake tube from a Duramax diesel was used in conjunction with a maf sensor bung from a A8 housing and some ultra black adhesive, at first we weren't sure it would work without a flow director but the engine is now running and the setup seems to work fine, no stalling, even after heavy throttle blasts.
      We installed a return fuel line under the car, and because the car was originally a "returnless" system we replaced the 4 port MB fuel filter with a 2 port VW filter, which was a direct fit in the mount bracket, and connected the new return to the hose we removed from the old filter.
      [IMG][/IMG]
      A 24x12 front mount IC was fitted...
      [IMG][/IMG]
      And 3 inch pipes and couplers were made to fit...
      [IMG] [/IMG]
      The whole setup is fitting pretty nice...
      [IMG] [/IMG]
      A MK4 instrument cluster is being adapted to fit in the MB dash... for now... a few pics of the process...
      [IMG] [/IMG]
      Currently building the 3 inch exhaust and then we will start testing the car...
      [IMG][/IMG]
      Thanks for lookin.....

    27. Member Junkyarddawg's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 4th, 2013
      Location
      Central Florida
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      128
      Vehicles
      1996 GTI 2.0T ABA,1994 E420,1998 E300TD, 2001 A6 2.7T, 2000 GTI VRT GT35/82R
      04-02-2018 12:17 PM #25
      Here is a short video of the setup running and brief walk around. We have driven it but only under part load as it now needs bigger injectors and once we get them installed there will be more video of the car driven under full load. This project is still under construction with more to come....
      https://youtu.be/EtnYlBBDDSU

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