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    Thread: Hardtail advice

    1. Member
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      10-14-2019 08:11 AM #51
      I was joking before about needing wider rims, but maybe that IS your problem with the 2.6” tires. The main advantage of 2.6s is the lower pressure you can run on them without bottoming, but if you’re on skinny rims, you’re going to have sidewall flop unless you boost the pressure. When you boost the pressure though, you’re losing the smoother ride and better traction.

      I also wonder if the tires are creating a weird contact patch by being pinched.

      So basically, wider rims=lower pressure and all of its corresponding benefits with less flop. Eh?

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    3. Member Samson's Avatar
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      10-14-2019 08:50 AM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by mrothwell View Post
      So basically, wider rims=lower pressure and all of its corresponding benefits with less flop. Eh?
      Yeah, very well could be. But I don't care $2newrims to find out. Some of the disadvantages can't really be helped (reduced straight line traction, excessive weight, not as responsive). The reduced rolling resistance claim may be true, especially on rough trail... but like all things, it's a tradeoff. I do like the round profile that the 24mm rims give the tires though, and they are 2.55" wide at somewhere around 18-20psi out back and a couple less up front. That pressure seems to be about what people run in these things as well, at least from what the internet says. The more rounded shape of the sidewall likely gives them less support though, which might be messing with something.

      Or, putting 2.6" 890g tires on an XC hardtail and expecting it to still be all XC-like is an unrealistic expectation. They're probably a ton of fun on a downhill, but... well, you used to live here.
      Last edited by Samson; 10-14-2019 at 08:53 AM.

    4. Member Samson's Avatar
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      10-18-2019 08:43 AM #53
      In a move that surprises nobody, putting the 2.3 back on the bike resulted in a much better experience. I'm going to build the Top Fuel back up and try the 2.6s on that, at which point I'll come to the same conclusion. Then I'll sell them.

    5. 05-25-2020 09:11 AM #54
      Samson, have you tried fitting a 36 chainring on the Chisel frame? Was there sufficient clearance? My chainline is currently at around 52.5mm.

    6. Member Samson's Avatar
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      05-25-2020 02:36 PM #55
      Quote Originally Posted by vwconvert View Post
      Samson, have you tried fitting a 36 chainring on the Chisel frame? Was there sufficient clearance? My chainline is currently at around 52.5mm.
      Yep, a 36t fit fine. I would imagine a 38t and possibly larger would fit. I ended up selling the frame after I bought the Crockett frameset, otherwise I'd go check.

    7. 05-26-2020 01:46 PM #56
      Thanks. Already sold the Chisel? Didn't like it?

    8. Member Samson's Avatar
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      05-26-2020 02:13 PM #57
      Quote Originally Posted by vwconvert View Post
      Thanks. Already sold the Chisel? Didn't like it?
      I liked it, but I didn't ride it much (400 miles total). The Top Fuel is still around, and it suits my riding style a bit better. The Chisel was a lot of fun and remarkably compliant (though the Crockett is too... maybe new aluminum frames are just a lot better than they used to be?), and had I not decided that I just had to get a pink and purple frame, I'd still have it.

    9. 08-01-2020 02:50 PM #58
      Quote Originally Posted by Samson View Post
      I haven't noticed a whole lot of difference between the new and old Renegades other than maybe the old one had a little more traction over loose stuff. I rode the two on the Top Fuel though, so that very well may be why. I am bummed that they dropped the 1.95" width option, as that's what I run on my gravel bike. I would probably only run the S-Works up front, and even that might not work on super techy/rough stuff. I've had good luck with durability, but a lot of people haven't. I'd probably go for the $44 60tpi version. That's a decent deal.
      I just put a new Renegade Control 2.3 on the Chisel and wow, what a great tire! It has unbelievable grip compared to how it looks. I'd say it's just as grippy and more predicable than a Fast Trak. I even tried it on the front and it inspires a lot of confidence. I don't understand how these things are so grippy. Plus, they are very supple without rim strikes. Magic.

    10. Member Samson's Avatar
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      08-04-2020 03:00 PM #59
      Quote Originally Posted by vwconvert View Post
      I just put a new Renegade Control 2.3 on the Chisel and wow, what a great tire! It has unbelievable grip compared to how it looks. I'd say it's just as grippy and more predicable than a Fast Trak. I even tried it on the front and it inspires a lot of confidence. I don't understand how these things are so grippy. Plus, they are very supple without rim strikes. Magic.
      Yeah, it's a good one. Glad it's working out. They're also very fast pavement/gravel... not quite to the level of the first-generation Renegade, but the off-road grip tradeoff is worth it. It'd be nice if they made it in a Grid casing though... I have a couple low-mile tires in the garage with unsealable holes in the sidewalls.

      I just ordered a 2.3 Ground Control... Control for the front of the Top Fuel (keeping Renegade on the back). We'll see how that does. I've heard good things. And coming back to hardtails, I've been looking at a Fuse frame. It's probably a good thing they're out of stock everywhere.

    11. Member OttaCee's Avatar
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      08-05-2020 09:46 AM #60
      Since my Niner full suspension is out due to mechanical issues (almost never ending now), been riding my hardtrail for the last 3 weeks and its a love/hate relationship.

      After trying multiple different tire combos 2.35 XC, 2.4 Enduro, and 2.6 Trail tires, once I got pressured dialed in on 2.6 its been pretty awesome. Ill be able to ride for 2-3hrs and not feel beat up. The 2.35 combo was fast as hell but didnt have enough rear compliance that I actually needed to find the cleanest line so my body didnt get pounded to death. Running 2.6 seems to complete eliminate it and only slightly slower over the 2.35.

      Getting the fork setup correctly has been a challenge. Since there's no rear suspension and trying to relearn, im using more of my arms to take the hits so its putting more force into the fork. Great on chunky stuff but when its mellow the fork is stiff. Debating about playing around with volume spacers to correct it.

      Riding the hardtail has changed my style just a bit. Moved the seat forward so im bit more off the saddle and ive hit tons of PRs over my full suspension because im pedaling off the seat more rather than sit and spin on the FS.

      Since im giving up hope on any type of race season, its party and BS time on the bikes. Smiles for miles and my hardtrail running 29x2.6 is perfect for 80% of my rides.
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    12. 08-05-2020 10:20 AM #61
      Quote Originally Posted by Samson View Post
      Yeah, it's a good one. Glad it's working out. They're also very fast pavement/gravel... not quite to the level of the first-generation Renegade, but the off-road grip tradeoff is worth it. It'd be nice if they made it in a Grid casing though... I have a couple low-mile tires in the garage with unsealable holes in the sidewalls.

      I just ordered a 2.3 Ground Control... Control for the front of the Top Fuel (keeping Renegade on the back). We'll see how that does. I've heard good things. And coming back to hardtails, I've been looking at a Fuse frame. It's probably a good thing they're out of stock everywhere.
      Yeah, I have cut three Fast Traks now and have retired two of them prematurely due to the size of the cuts. The one I just cut, I'm hoping to repair. Only three rides on it . I'm also hoping the brand new 2020 Control casings are tougher. We will see. So far, my Renegade Control has no signs of cuts or damage after about 150 miles.

      Let me know how the Ground Control goes. Those Fuse hardtails are awesome. I watched the review by Hardtail Party and he loved that thing despite being a super slack aficionado. It would be the bike I would get if our trails were more downhill and less XC.

    13. 08-05-2020 10:25 AM #62
      Quote Originally Posted by OttaCee View Post
      Since my Niner full suspension is out due to mechanical issues (almost never ending now), been riding my hardtrail for the last 3 weeks and its a love/hate relationship.

      After trying multiple different tire combos 2.35 XC, 2.4 Enduro, and 2.6 Trail tires, once I got pressured dialed in on 2.6 its been pretty awesome. Ill be able to ride for 2-3hrs and not feel beat up. The 2.35 combo was fast as hell but didnt have enough rear compliance that I actually needed to find the cleanest line so my body didnt get pounded to death. Running 2.6 seems to complete eliminate it and only slightly slower over the 2.35.

      Getting the fork setup correctly has been a challenge. Since there's no rear suspension and trying to relearn, im using more of my arms to take the hits so its putting more force into the fork. Great on chunky stuff but when its mellow the fork is stiff. Debating about playing around with volume spacers to correct it.

      Riding the hardtail has changed my style just a bit. Moved the seat forward so im bit more off the saddle and ive hit tons of PRs over my full suspension because im pedaling off the seat more rather than sit and spin on the FS.

      Since im giving up hope on any type of race season, its party and BS time on the bikes. Smiles for miles and my hardtrail running 29x2.6 is perfect for 80% of my rides.
      I have Rebas and one volume spacer was really helpful in getting more low speed compliance. Two spacers were too much. You hit a wall of stiffness about mid travel. Hardtails are interesting. I've ridden some that have rattled my teeth and others, like my Chisel, that didn't feel significantly different from my Top Fuel. It's great that they are focusing on building more compliance into the seatstays these days. Tire selection even among similar size tires really makes a difference too. Renegades, for example, mutes the trail more than similar sized Maxxis and Continentals I've used.

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