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    Thread: Let's Discuss Ceramic Coatings

    1. Member pdqgp's Avatar
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      05-22-2018 09:26 AM #76
      Quote Originally Posted by Ambrose Wolfinger View Post
      Looks great!

      Question to all about leveling and removing residue.

      1) how do you know the coating is properly leveled? When applying under lights I couldn't tell, but after it dries there were some high spots and streaking.
      It was likely the lighting that you were using. Highspots with Coatings will appear within a few minutes. These products flash rather quickly

      2) when removing, should it be buffed out like a wax? I noticed a few hazy streaks (the ones that look like light swirl marks but are actually small amounts of product residue). I simply went over the panel with a second MF a few times after the initial removal/leveling attempt. I wasn't sure if I should or shouldn't treat it like wax removal and buffing.
      No buffing is required. Coating should be wiped completely until all streaks in high spots are removed. From there they should be left to cure. It is common & best practice to use two different microfiber towels or suede removal towels when wiping the Coatings off





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    3. Member Ambrose Wolfinger's Avatar
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      05-22-2018 03:20 PM #77
      Quote Originally Posted by pdqgp View Post
      It was likely the lighting that you were using. Highspots with Coatings will appear within a few minutes. These products flash rather quickly



      No buffing is required. Coating should be wiped completely until all streaks in high spots are removed. From there they should be left to cure. It is common & best practice to use two different microfiber towels or suede removal towels when wiping the Coatings off





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      Thanks. I have a home made light set up with two daylight color LED bulbs. I may have to reposition them.

      After applying I used a MF to wipe the residue, then a second MF to continue wiping. Guess I need to go over it more with the second MF in the future.

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      05-25-2018 08:32 AM #78
      Had our first rain last night (severe thunderstorm actually) and I'm not impressed, sadly. This is the first time the car has gotten wet at all since I applied it on Saturday.

      I was certain the coating was applied correctly for a couple reasons:

      1) The issue I had with the coating on the roof rail during the curing period that I described above
      2) The paint felt smooth to the touch like a just waxed car
      3) After looking at the car for a few days I decided it did show better than boutique wax - it seemed to have more iridescence and looked great.

      So when it started raining last night, I was excited to run outside and look at the beading.

      I wasn't impressed, but I did seem to notice that when a bead would slide off the car it would slide off very fast, so I had some hope.

      This morning I go outside and this is what I see, which is what I saw last night at the onset of the rain:





      That's not really any different than the level of beading I get when there's absolutely nothing on the car.

      So then I drove to work, 23 miles with most of it between 65-80 mph. The water never started shooting quickly up the hood towards the cowl like it does after a wax job. In fact this picture was taken at 75 mph. This was about halfway to work and the water wasn't moving:



      And after getting to work, still got water on the hood and top of the bumper and the beading isn't great:





      As far as I know I did everything right, I followed the directions and prepped the car correctly with a dedicated wax stripping soap, Iron-X, clay, and an IPA wipedown. At the point I went to do the McKee's, the paint was clean and uncontaminated and was just pure, clean paint. There was nothing on the car at the time I put the McKee's on so it isn't an issue of synergistic compatibility since it's just clean paint + a singular McKee's product and there is no attempt to layer complementary products. Temperature was 65 degrees and cloudy, and I put the McKee's on in my garage so conditions were perfect. I made 3-4 passes up and down and side to side working in small 18" x 18" sections using McKee's foam applicator and then wiped it off with a new, clean microfiber cloth that I then threw away after doing a couple panels.

      What's the deal? Clearly something went wrong but I don't see how it could've given that it definitely seemed that a coating was in place and I followed directions and watched McKee's videos.

      Have an email out to McKee's with a link to this thread to get their input on what went wrong.
      Last edited by puma1552; 05-25-2018 at 08:48 AM.

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      05-25-2018 09:09 AM #79
      Quote Originally Posted by puma1552 View Post
      Have an email out to McKee's with a link to this thread to get their input on what went wrong.
      Wish it was easy as saying "the product sucks" but I doubt that's true.
      My coating was applied roughly 8 months ago (SB3 - https://www.sb3coating.com/) professionally and water still beads in the touchless wash and when it rains on the windshield.

      My only guess is that the "wiping off" could have been too quick? Maybe you literally "wiped it off" before anything bonded or hardened?
      Seeing as it was prepped properly, the fact that nothing's happening can only mean 1 of 2 things: product sucks / no product is on the car.

      Hope you get it figured out
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      05-25-2018 09:24 AM #80
      Quote Originally Posted by iliveoncaffiene View Post
      Wish it was easy as saying "the product sucks" but I doubt that's true.
      My coating was applied roughly 8 months ago (SB3 - https://www.sb3coating.com/) professionally and water still beads in the touchless wash and when it rains on the windshield.

      My only guess is that the "wiping off" could have been too quick? Maybe you literally "wiped it off" before anything bonded or hardened?
      Seeing as it was prepped properly, the fact that nothing's happening can only mean 1 of 2 things: product sucks / no product is on the car.

      Hope you get it figured out
      That's literally the only thing I can think of, is I wiped it off too early or wiped it off too hard but I pretty much did exactly what's in their video (skip to 3:30):



      I still see wet coating at the point he wipes it off, and he does say wipe it off immediately. I did make multiple passes, 3-4 side to side/up and down and that's probably pretty close to the product's working time limit. Not sure but maybe I wiped it too hard? But that doesn't really explain how I was sure I had coating on it based on the roof rail issue and how the paint felt and looked afterwards. Guess I'll see what their feedback is and try it on my wife's car and report back. I'm sure it's a good product, I just did something wrong I guess.
      Last edited by puma1552; 05-25-2018 at 09:28 AM.

    7. Senior Member Sporin's Avatar
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      05-25-2018 09:35 AM #81
      I might consider this if I ever buy another new car. I keep my cars long enough now that it would be worth it if the price was right.

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      05-25-2018 10:02 AM #82
      Quote Originally Posted by Karl_1340 View Post
      I applied CQuartz to my ATS about 3weeks ago.
      It is still beading very nicely, but I will keep checking on it throughout the summer.

      I also drove through some rain this weekend, and the car still looks clean. It is a miracle!


      Just put in an order for Cquartz 3.0.

      Hoping it works to keep the car clean. The VW is Night Blue which shows everything.

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      05-25-2018 10:03 AM #83
      I'm just in this because I'm thinking about it for the wife's car. It is a beautiful blue, but one winter was rough on the paint, especially an "incident" where the snow brush bristles were too short and did some light scratching. Eesh. I want to keep it as vibrant and as nice as possible, seeing as it is our first "new" car purchase. It may not be much to people here, but I would like our little Fiesta to last, and I used to be so anal about cleaning....A foster kid and normal house maintenance, in addition to health issues have stymied my former cleaning therapy.
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      05-25-2018 10:17 AM #84
      Quote Originally Posted by PoorHouse View Post
      Just put in an order for Cquartz 3.0.

      Hoping it works to keep the car clean. The VW is Night Blue which shows everything.
      Wife got a new car, I ordered the cQuartz UK 3.0.....if it holds up for a year or so I'll be super happy. Her car goes first because it's new and needs very little prep work.

    11. 05-25-2018 10:44 AM #85
      Quote Originally Posted by PoorHouse View Post
      Just put in an order for Cquartz 3.0.

      Just received my kit the other day too. Hoping to do a mild correction on the SS and get it applied this weekend if the weather cooperates.
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    12. Member Karl_1340's Avatar
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      05-25-2018 12:32 PM #86
      Quote Originally Posted by PoorHouse View Post
      Just put in an order for Cquartz 3.0.

      Hoping it works to keep the car clean. The VW is Night Blue which shows everything.
      Car still looks clean after another week. An impossibility with a black car.

    13. Member Karl_1340's Avatar
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      05-25-2018 12:33 PM #87
      Quote Originally Posted by puma1552 View Post
      Had our first rain last night (severe thunderstorm actually) and I'm not impressed, sadly. This is the first time the car has gotten wet at all since I applied it on Saturday.

      I was certain the coating was applied correctly for a couple reasons:

      1) The issue I had with the coating on the roof rail during the curing period that I described above
      2) The paint felt smooth to the touch like a just waxed car
      3) After looking at the car for a few days I decided it did show better than boutique wax - it seemed to have more iridescence and looked great.

      So when it started raining last night, I was excited to run outside and look at the beading.

      I wasn't impressed, but I did seem to notice that when a bead would slide off the car it would slide off very fast, so I had some hope.

      This morning I go outside and this is what I see, which is what I saw last night at the onset of the rain:

      That's not really any different than the level of beading I get when there's absolutely nothing on the car.

      So then I drove to work, 23 miles with most of it between 65-80 mph. The water never started shooting quickly up the hood towards the cowl like it does after a wax job. In fact this picture was taken at 75 mph. This was about halfway to work and the water wasn't moving:
      And after getting to work, still got water on the hood and top of the bumper and the beading isn't great:

      As far as I know I did everything right, I followed the directions and prepped the car correctly with a dedicated wax stripping soap, Iron-X, clay, and an IPA wipedown. At the point I went to do the McKee's, the paint was clean and uncontaminated and was just pure, clean paint. There was nothing on the car at the time I put the McKee's on so it isn't an issue of synergistic compatibility since it's just clean paint + a singular McKee's product and there is no attempt to layer complementary products. Temperature was 65 degrees and cloudy, and I put the McKee's on in my garage so conditions were perfect. I made 3-4 passes up and down and side to side working in small 18" x 18" sections using McKee's foam applicator and then wiped it off with a new, clean microfiber cloth that I then threw away after doing a couple panels.

      What's the deal? Clearly something went wrong but I don't see how it could've given that it definitely seemed that a coating was in place and I followed directions and watched McKee's videos.

      Have an email out to McKee's with a link to this thread to get their input on what went wrong.
      I know the CQuartz recommends keeping the paint dry afterwards for 24 hours. Was it parked outside? Dew could have possibly caused issues if that was the case.

    14. Member audicoupej's Avatar
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      05-25-2018 12:40 PM #88
      Quote Originally Posted by puma1552 View Post
      Had our first rain last night (severe thunderstorm actually) and I'm not impressed, sadly. This is the first time the car has gotten wet at all since I applied it on Saturday.

      I was certain the coating was applied correctly for a couple reasons:

      1) The issue I had with the coating on the roof rail during the curing period that I described above
      2) The paint felt smooth to the touch like a just waxed car
      3) After looking at the car for a few days I decided it did show better than boutique wax - it seemed to have more iridescence and looked great.

      So when it started raining last night, I was excited to run outside and look at the beading.

      I wasn't impressed, but I did seem to notice that when a bead would slide off the car it would slide off very fast, so I had some hope.


      As far as I know I did everything right, I followed the directions and prepped the car correctly with a dedicated wax stripping soap, Iron-X, clay, and an IPA wipedown. At the point I went to do the McKee's, the paint was clean and uncontaminated and was just pure, clean paint. There was nothing on the car at the time I put the McKee's on so it isn't an issue of synergistic compatibility since it's just clean paint + a singular McKee's product and there is no attempt to layer complementary products. Temperature was 65 degrees and cloudy, and I put the McKee's on in my garage so conditions were perfect. I made 3-4 passes up and down and side to side working in small 18" x 18" sections using McKee's foam applicator and then wiped it off with a new, clean microfiber cloth that I then threw away after doing a couple panels.

      What's the deal? Clearly something went wrong but I don't see how it could've given that it definitely seemed that a coating was in place and I followed directions and watched McKee's videos.

      Have an email out to McKee's with a link to this thread to get their input on what went wrong.
      During installation could you see the product flashing? It looks like a rainbow like oil in water sort of.

      How's the pollen/dust in your area? If the car has a build up of pollen that can really affect water beading and pollen is very sticky so it doesn't come off the paint very easily. Id wash it with a soap that leaves nothing behind (no wax, gloss enhancers etc) and see if beading is better.

      Interested to see the final verdict as I own McKee's Paint coating V2 but have yet to use it. I have used many other coatings.
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      05-25-2018 02:06 PM #89
      Quote Originally Posted by Karl_1340 View Post
      I know the CQuartz recommends keeping the paint dry afterwards for 24 hours. Was it parked outside? Dew could have possibly caused issues if that was the case.
      Kept in the garage for 36 hours after and didn't drive it.

      Quote Originally Posted by audicoupej View Post
      During installation could you see the product flashing? It looks like a rainbow like oil in water sort of.

      How's the pollen/dust in your area? If the car has a build up of pollen that can really affect water beading and pollen is very sticky so it doesn't come off the paint very easily. Id wash it with a soap that leaves nothing behind (no wax, gloss enhancers etc) and see if beading is better.

      Interested to see the final verdict as I own McKee's Paint coating V2 but have yet to use it. I have used many other coatings.
      Kinda hard to tell on the flashing being I have a silver car, so not really sure but it felt like I was using most of the working time of the product before removing.

      There IS a ton of pollen right now, car had a light yellow dusting of it after sitting out for several days. You can see the pollen blow off the trees in the wind and it's all over the driveway. I did have that thought, maybe it's just pollen affecting the beading but wasn't sure if it would. Could I be good still?

      EDIT: One thing on the flashing too is that I can't tell if you're supposed to let it flash or not, seems like people want a long work time and therefore flashing would be bad? I guess I look at it as if it's flashing and there's not anything to wipe off, you probably waited too long? So I guess ideally you'd want to work it til just before it flashes off and then wipe it off?
      Last edited by puma1552; 05-25-2018 at 02:19 PM.

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      05-25-2018 03:20 PM #90
      McKee's wrote back and said they think the water beading looks great.

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      05-25-2018 03:49 PM #91
      Quote Originally Posted by puma1552 View Post
      McKee's wrote back and said they think the water beading looks great.
      That's really disappointing to hear....
      That'd make me wonder if the person looking at the photo knew what real water beading looked like: https://imgur.com/a/cBFIlpT - that's after a couple months of daily driving 30 miles.

      Looking back - it does look like it's "kind of" beading (at least better than a car with no wax or anything). But, it's still not good compared to what it could be
      Last edited by iliveoncaffiene; 05-25-2018 at 04:01 PM.
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      05-25-2018 04:06 PM #92
      Quote Originally Posted by iliveoncaffiene View Post
      That's really disappointing to hear....
      That'd make me wonder if the person looking at the photo knew what real water beading looked like: https://imgur.com/a/cBFIlpT - that's after a couple months of daily driving 30 miles.

      Looking back - it does look like it's "kind of" beading (at least better than a car with no wax or anything). But, it's still not good compared to what it could be
      Right, it's definitely not beading nearly as tight or small as any prior wax/sealant I've used, but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt that the 3 days of pollen is the culprit. I fully expected the water to just stream towards the back of the hood and off into the cowl when I started driving as it always does with wax but it didn't do that at all really. I'll have to see after doing a hand wash but I'm sure the product is a good product.

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      05-25-2018 04:19 PM #93
      Quote Originally Posted by puma1552 View Post
      Right, it's definitely not beading nearly as tight or small as any prior wax/sealant I've used, but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt that the 3 days of pollen is the culprit. I fully expected the water to just stream towards the back of the hood and off into the cowl when I started driving as it always does with wax but it didn't do that at all really. I'll have to see after doing a hand wash but I'm sure the product is a good product.
      If the sealant is correctly applied, you should be able to just hit it with a hose / power-washer to literally "clean" the car - even hand washing is not really a big necessity unless the car is really dirty.
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      05-25-2018 04:25 PM #94
      Quote Originally Posted by iliveoncaffiene View Post
      If the sealant is correctly applied, you should be able to just hit it with a hose / power-washer to literally "clean" the car - even hand washing is not really a big necessity unless the car is really dirty.
      I was actually kind of hoping that the severe storm would basically have that effect and wash the pollen away, but I suppose the rain water was probably pretty dirty too.

    21. 05-31-2018 09:07 PM #95
      Quote Originally Posted by Pushrods View Post
      Just received my kit the other day too. Hoping to do a mild correction on the SS and get it applied this weekend if the weather cooperates. :thumbup:

      Got an early start on Saturday and did a full two step correction and applied CQuartzUK to my six month old black SS. Paint was super swirled from the dealer, but shiny since it’s still new with only one winter on it. I had not waxed or sealed it at all since buying it, expecting that I or someone else would be doing this process.

      The whole process went pretty much like this and took about 12 hours:

      Rinse w/ pressure washer (40deg tip)
      Foam / mitt wash w/ CG Maxi-Suds
      Iron-X
      Clay
      Second wash
      Dried thoroughly
      Compound w/ Meg’s UC and 5.5” LC orange pads on my new Griots DA
      Polish w/ Meg’s UP and LC white pads
      Eraser (2x)
      CQuartzUK 3.0
      Reload

      Coated the wheels as well.

      It’s been curing in 80-90deg sun during the day since then, with no water exposure at all.

      I’m extremely pleased so far. It was my first time doing paint correction or ceramic coating, so I was a bit intimidated going in. I watched a ton of videos and did a bunch of reading and research before I picked my tools and materials. All in all, I never ran into any issues. Applying the CQuartz was far simpler than I had figured. I’ve been over the car and haven’t found any hints of streaks.

      The gloss was impressive the following morning when I checked it out. And it’s enough that I’ve even received a couple comments about it this week. Pollen has been bad this year, and the build up has been nasty. But the car has continued to look clean - it’s only once I’m behind the wheel and sighting down the hood that I really see how thick it’s gotten.

      I decided to try rinsing the car for the first time tonight - literally just a hose with a sprayer set to shower. The week’s worth of pollen and dirt/dust simply rinsed off in seconds. The water beading was really impressive too. I didn’t grab a pic, but the beads looked to be practically spheres. Sheeting water on the car eliminated most of what was left sitting. I didn’t fully dry the car with the blower, but a quick once over showed it won’t be difficult to dry it completely in short order.

      Pretty much couldn’t have gone any better. Thanks for all the info and advice here. :thumbup:
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    22. Member pdqgp's Avatar
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      06-01-2018 06:50 AM #96
      Quote Originally Posted by puma1552 View Post
      McKee's wrote back and said they think the water beading looks great.
      I wouldn't say it looks great. Here's an image of my wife's previous vehicle (roof) when dirty and it was raining. This is when coated with McKee's V1 even. Keep in mind however, the van shown here wasn't clean, thus of course it won't exhibit the best beading or contact angle. It's on-par with what you'll see from Cquartz.




      Here's McKee's V2 on the hood. (I never did complete V2 on the roof)





      Overall, the product performs but it's not of the same level as Geyon or Cquartz. It is however far less expensive. For me, I use it as my entry level coating on customer cars. If you're looking for super hydrophobic move to Geyon's Syncro Kit. After a major rain the other day, my wife's car litterally came in dried to the point where it looked clean and lightly dusty if that. The pollen and dirt washed off completely. Here's a quick video of Syncro after 2 months so far. The key with Geyon is their Skin Coat that is applied.





      The main difference is the contact angle. Geyon is IMO a 10/10. (I'll see if I can dig up my cell phone shot of it beading.) The difference is stark/very noticeable. My Q50 has Cquartz and their Gliss product and in comparison I give it a 7/8 out of 10. That said, I'll be re-doing my car with Syncro in the coming weeks as Geyon's Skin is noticeably superior to CarPro's Gliss. It's that good for the money.

      The upside to McKee's however is that it seemed to last pretty well and it does offer a nice appearance. Here' my wife's van with V2 on it just before we sold it. The new owner even commented on how well it shined.




      Here are the water beading pics from a rain storm on my wife's vehicle. The first was at the gas station as I filled up, the other was from when she came home after driving and parked in the garage. Notice how "tight" the beading is. That's the 110-115* contact angle. Very little surface tension and those little round drops are begging to be easily blown off. The tighter the bead, the more it will roll away. In the video I posted.....when I sprayed the door.....if I had held the camera there for a minute, you'd see the water drops still falling off and down the side to where it will nearly dry itself.

      In the end, I'm a HUGE Geyon Syncro Fan now. Well worth the time to install it. I've done her car and four customers thus far as I sell it as my top package offering now.



      Last edited by pdqgp; 06-01-2018 at 07:08 AM.
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      06-01-2018 07:00 AM #97
      Put in in the unimpressed camp. I wish the Ceramic Pro applied to my Fiesta ST performed half as well as some of the coatings here; it was professionally applied too. Mine stopped beading nicely after 3 months and has required monthly ceramic boost applications every month every since to keep it looking decent.

      My last boost application was done 6 weeks ago and water now stays put along with dirt as if it's an untreated car. Should you need to apply a booster coating this often?

    24. Member pdqgp's Avatar
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      06-01-2018 07:06 AM #98
      Quote Originally Posted by SourKrout View Post
      Put in in the unimpressed camp. I wish the Ceramic Pro applied to my Fiesta ST performed half as well as some of the coatings here; it was professionally applied too. Mine stopped beading nicely after 3 months and has required monthly ceramic boost applications every month every since to keep it looking decent.

      My last boost application was done 6 weeks ago and water now stays put along with dirt as if it's an untreated car. Should you need to apply a booster coating this often?

      Yes/No on the booster application. Do a quick baggie test (put your hand in a typical plastic lunch bag) and wipe it across a clean surface of the hood/roof when wet with water and see if you feel any grit. Lots of times when I see such a situation mentioned, the vehicle has a slight bit of fallout / road grime on it. That's normal and typical in many instances and areas. It can be removed easily but it all depends on where you live and what the car is exposed too. My Q50 right now has just a wee-bit of tree sap/fallout on it thus it will impact the beading.

      Keep in mind, water beading isn't necessarily an indication of how well a coating is or isn't protecting the surface below. It can be radically altered by using say the wrong car wash. I love Meg's Gold Class for example, but it too contains gloss enhancers that will change the hydrophobic properties of coatings. My go-to wash is CarPro Reset.
      Last edited by pdqgp; 06-01-2018 at 07:09 AM.
      2018 Midnight Black Metallic AWD Infiniti Q50S Red Sport | BMS JB4 | 395awhp/430awtq
      2018 Ruby Red Metallic Lincoln MK-C Reserve | AWD 2.3l EcoBoost - Wife's
      2001 Patriot Blue Pearl Jeep Cherokee Limited - Son's

    25. Member audicoupej's Avatar
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      06-01-2018 07:35 AM #99
      Quote Originally Posted by puma1552 View Post
      McKee's wrote back and said they think the water beading looks great.
      That is surprising/disappointing. An easy solution for you is start using McKee's Hydro blue once a month or so when you wash. It's friendly with the paint coating. It's incredibly easy to use and works great. I bought my sister some as a gift to use on her car. She loved it.

      It makes me want to try the V2 I have on something to see if I get the same results. I was reserving it for when I finally detailed my mothers new car.

      I will say for basically the same price Gyeon Cancoat performs great. They say 6+ month durability. I think if you maintain with Gyeon Cure and wash at minimum every 2-3 weeks, you would easily get a year.

      The big thing with coatings, as stated by pdqgp, is maintenance (washing frequently enough, using a maintenance spray at manufacturers recommendations and using a soap that leaves nothing behind. So no wax/gloss enhancers). If you don't wash often you get build up that can affect the bead/hydrophobic properties as can a soap that leaves something on the paint.
      JEMM Auto Detailing: Cars, Trucks, Motorcycles, Planes, RVs, Bathtubs, if you pay me I will buff it

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    26. Member pdqgp's Avatar
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      06-03-2018 07:31 PM #100
      Quote Originally Posted by audicoupej View Post
      I will say for basically the same price Gyeon Cancoat performs great. They say 6+ month durability. I think if you maintain with Gyeon Cure and wash at minimum every 2-3 weeks, you would easily get a year.
      ^^ this. Can Coat will give you way way way better hydrophobic properties and if this is just your personal car vs say a customers car, Can Coat is super easy to apply and re-apply when needed. Not quite up to Syncro/Skin in terms of self cleaning hydrophobic properties, but it's crazy good still and something you'll definitely like.
      2018 Midnight Black Metallic AWD Infiniti Q50S Red Sport | BMS JB4 | 395awhp/430awtq
      2018 Ruby Red Metallic Lincoln MK-C Reserve | AWD 2.3l EcoBoost - Wife's
      2001 Patriot Blue Pearl Jeep Cherokee Limited - Son's

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