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    Thread: Getting the '79 back on the road

    1. Member
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      05-13-2018 04:25 PM #1
      Making a build thread to stay on track and ask the forum for help when it comes up!

      Got my Diamond Silver Metallic (edit: Platinum Gray Metallic, actually) 1979 Scirocco in February.

      Towed it home from Missouri to Texas.






      Windshield seal was shot, and a missing rain tray led to a few inches of water collecting inside.



















      Got it into my shop and started trying to turn it over. Dropped a tablespoon of oil in each cylinder and hand cranked the engine, to which it seemed right. Starter was fully locked up, though. Got a reman starter installed and working well.



      Also, the fuel pump was seized up. I drained the fuel tank of what was formerly gasoline, and took apart all the fuel system in the rear.



      Dropped the tank and had it cleaned out. Ordered all new fuel lines from mk1autohaus, and got a NOS fuel accumulator.





      This is what fell out from the top side of the tank when it came down:



      I later found what had gathered all these nuts. This is a very very dead ex-mouse.



      This is what the filler tube had disintegrated to:



      My dogs were a huge help.



      Got the tank back and installed yesterday, including all new (and colorful!) vapor lines.





      Just gotta put the rest of the fuel system together. Step 1 of getting the car to run in its current condition is nearly done!

      Last edited by toastworks; 11-30-2018 at 09:03 PM.
      Remind me to double check my diagnoses

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    3. Member vwdaun's Avatar
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      05-13-2018 10:28 PM #2
      Guess I'd better get that sender out to you 'eh? Good work so far!

    4. 05-14-2018 11:38 PM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by toastworks View Post
      Got my Diamond Silver Metallic 1979 Scirocco in February.
      By all indications, looks to be Cirrus Gray Metallic.

      DSM is all bright and... well, silvery... like you'd expect something called 'diamond silver' to be.
      no one cares what you think in real life...
      how do you figure the internet makes it any better.

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    6. Member
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      05-15-2018 12:37 PM #4
      Man I guess I’ve had those two colors backwards this whole time. I had a diamond gray back in they day but called it Cirrus.

      Thanks for straightening that up.
      Remind me to double check my diagnoses

    7. 05-17-2018 11:05 PM #5
      Actually guys it is likely Platinum Metallic. I bought my wife a rusty 1980 Scirocco (3-speed auto, too!) and it was Platinum Metallic with red and black interior. I absolutely loved that car. It had some type of engine knock when we bought it but it ran for at least three years until structural rust did it in. It was my first Mk1, and started a long line of subsequent Mk1 cars after that.

    8. 05-17-2018 11:24 PM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by petebee#2 View Post
      Actually guys it is likely Platinum Metallic. I bought my wife a rusty 1980 Scirocco (3-speed auto, too!) and it was Platinum Metallic with red and black interior. I absolutely loved that car. It had some type of engine knock when we bought it but it ran for at least three years until structural rust did it in. It was my first Mk1, and started a long line of subsequent Mk1 cars after that.
      Yeah Pete, I think you're right.
      Cirrus wasn't until 1981.
      They had Platinum in 1979. I totally whiffed on the year of the car when I commented before.

      It's also plausible that 'Platinum' and 'Diamond' are things that could be more easily confused.

      I agree, Platinum.
      no one cares what you think in real life...
      how do you figure the internet makes it any better.

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      05-29-2018 08:20 PM #7
      Got to the point where all the fuel stuff in the back of the car has been replaced, but the fuel distributor is gummed up. The air flow metering plate won't raise without some force, but it returns pretty smoothly.

      I've watched some Youtube tutorials to get the gist of what's going on inside there, and since I have little to lose, I'm going to open mine up and try and clean it out according to this guide I found on cabby-info.com.

      This (and the injectors) should be the last bit of business to get the thing running and moving on its own power. While cranking, it will catch occasionally but not stay running.

      Any advice?

    10. Member Michael Bee's Avatar
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      05-29-2018 09:30 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by petebee#2 View Post
      Actually guys it is likely Platinum Metallic. I bought my wife a rusty 1980 Scirocco (3-speed auto, too!) and it was Platinum Metallic with red and black interior. I absolutely loved that car. It had some type of engine knock when we bought it but it ran for at least three years until structural rust did it in. It was my first Mk1, and started a long line of subsequent Mk1 cars after that.
      Same color as mine. Platinum Metallic. I had those red seats too and they crumbled to dust. Now I just sit on a milk crate.

      Nice score to the OP. I saw this on FB and recognized the color immediately

    11. 05-30-2018 03:34 AM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by toastworks View Post
      Got to the point where all the fuel stuff in the back of the car has been replaced, but the fuel distributor is gummed up. The air flow metering plate won't raise without some force, but it returns pretty smoothly.

      I've watched some Youtube tutorials to get the gist of what's going on inside there, and since I have little to lose, I'm going to open mine up and try and clean it out according to this guide I found on cabby-info.com.

      This (and the injectors) should be the last bit of business to get the thing running and moving on its own power. While cranking, it will catch occasionally but not stay running.

      Any advice?

      Be careful. Your 1st choice should be to not fully disassemble the Fuel Distributor but to (carefully) pull it off the Air Filter Box stuff, & the the lines, etc, and, making sure to not let the plunger fall out and get nicked, apply some good solvent to said plunger and the cylinder it is supposed to move freely in.

      B12-Chemtool would be good for this, but glove up and avoid inhaling it-

      I suppose I should check the posted link, but that'll have to wait till the morrow...

    12. Member
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      06-01-2018 03:18 PM #10
      Popped the distributor off the air box, managed to get the plunger out by tapping the distro on the bench so it popped out enough that I could grab it and pull it the rest of the way. Cleaned the crap out of it with B12 (amazing stuff, btw), and got it looking good. I didn't do the 600 grit "wet" sand the piston part.

      After cleaning it, the piston slid in and out a lot better -- but I was never able to find the spring inside the chamber.

      Reassembled, and the air flow plate was moving a lot better, until I pumped fuel back into the system, then the plate's resistance returned to before I pulled it all apart... maybe a slight improvement. But still way more resistance than there should be.

      What do you all think? Give up on the Fuel distributor and replace it? Or did not sanding the piston mean I didn't really change anything? And the missing spring... grr.

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      06-02-2018 04:17 AM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by toastworks View Post
      Popped the distributor off the air box, managed to get the plunger out by tapping the distro on the bench so it popped out enough that I could grab it and pull it the rest of the way. Cleaned the crap out of it with B12 (amazing stuff, btw), and got it looking good. I didn't do the 600 grit "wet" sand the piston part.

      After cleaning it, the piston slid in and out a lot better -- but I was never able to find the spring inside the chamber.

      Reassembled, and the air flow plate was moving a lot better, until I pumped fuel back into the system, then the plate's resistance returned to before I pulled it all apart... maybe a slight improvement. But still way more resistance than there should be.

      What do you all think? Give up on the Fuel distributor and replace it? Or did not sanding the piston mean I didn't really change anything? And the missing spring... grr.
      What spring?

      The piston on the CIS-E one just falls down by gravity and fuel pressure and I'm pretty sure the CIS one does also.

      There should be resistance if the fuel pump is on. Its the fuel pushing on the piston.

      Don't sand the piston!!! That will ruin it.

      Get the part number off the side and get a rebuilt kit like this:

      https://www.ebay.com/itm/0438100059-...ss!84009!US!-1

      The above company used to have a link to the rebuild directions on their eBay ads but I guess people were downloading the directions without buying a kit.

      Here's their website:

      https://cis-jetronic.com/

      Or this which may or may not be as good:

      https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bosch-Fuel-...UAAOSwiVhZvosQ

      You could also thrown one of these kits in:

      https://www.ebay.com/itm/Audi-Porsch...oAAOSwA3dYkDsg

      You should also get one of these:

      https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-VW...wAAOSw2vVZ4jeH

      -Old Eric

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      06-02-2018 04:44 AM #12
      I just checked out the Cabby link.

      It appears that there is a spring in the cast iron fuel distributer. I wonder why the kit doesn't have a new one?

    15. Senior Member Iroczgirl's Avatar
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      06-02-2018 09:44 PM #13
      Great progress.
      Lots of VW stuff|Rare Scirocco parts!
      The family: 1955 Customline 351C | 1970 TR6 262Olds | 1977 Capri Cologne | 1980 Rabbit AAZ | 1984 C30 350 | 1988 Scirocco 9A | 1988 Scirocco LP7Y | 1992 Pickup 22RE | 1997 D21 KA24E | 2000 Grand Marquis Modular
      Quote Originally Posted by Crimping Is Easy View Post
      You're always better off with a Citroën.™

    16. Member
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      06-03-2018 05:53 PM #14
      That's just it! There's no spring in my cast iron dizzy! Is that right? The plunger is supposed to slowly fall down (when unpressurized) with just gravity, right?

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      06-04-2018 01:42 PM #15
      Okokokokok.

      Having a hard time wanting to toss money into an engine that’s going to get pulled out.

      I don’t intend to keep the 1.6 in the car. I want a 1.8 or a 2.0 in there for the long haul.

      I need advice: the fuel components in the engine compartment (dizzy, injectors) are clogged with old varnished/rusty fuel. Do I crack open the dizzy and clean it out and then buy new injectors?

      Or just pull the whole mess out and start on the new engine swap?

      I’ve been looking around for donor cars down here in Texas but they’re pretty rare. I’d love to end up with a JH or RD 1.8 even it needs a rebuild.

      I’m just feeling shaky about acquiring a fuel system that has been sitting around as long as mine has without running.
      Remind me to double check my diagnoses

    18. 06-04-2018 05:55 PM #16
      It would be possible to effectively run, and rerun, a solvent rich fuel around and around the suspect Fuel System by jumpering the Fuel Pump Relay.

      Usually when I've done this it's been just to run the stuff through the Tank, Accumulator, Hard Lines, Fuel Distributor, and back around on the Return Line, past the Pressure Regulator.

      I realize, this serves very little purpose in cleaning out the braided lines that serve the Injectors, nor the Injectors themselves.

      Still, they can come loose (Injectors) and be done independently, & over all it could be a great start to de-gummify-ing the majority of the system.

      (When I first started this I was going to describe having the Injectors pulled loose from the Head and dunked in a catch-bucket w/ a pickup line circulating it back around though the Pump.... but thats beyond the scope of a quick note on the Interwebz...)

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      06-27-2018 08:53 PM #17
      Still working on a no-start diagnosis.

      Car cranks, and there's occasional stutters, but I think I'm working on a low fuel pressure problem.

      Fuel pump relay seems to be good. I can hear pump continue priming after I let off the starter for a second or two.

      Things replaced thus far:

      Had fuel tank cleaned
      New rubber hoses to and from tank and gravity valve
      Fuel pump (Picked up a used Bosch and a new-ish cheapo no-name)
      NOS fuel accumulator
      New high pressure lines to and from accumulator
      New fuel filter
      Fuel distributor & air metering plate (used in good looking shape Bosch 0 438 120 208 / 026 133 353 B - from a Mk2 GTI 1.8 EV 8v)
      --- it came missing its pressure regulator, so I installed the one from the car's original dizzy
      Warm up regulator (used in decent looking shape) & replaced braided lines to and from dizzy
      Replaced 5th injector fuel line
      Brand new injectors (Bosch brass Mercedes 190E-type) and plastic injector inserts as of today, but using original braided lines

      The Bosch pump puts out 65-70psi right out of the pump, but only 40psi right after the fuel filter. The no-name pump also gives me the same 40psi after the filter.

      Everything not mentioned is probably untouched from sitting for 5-15 years.

      I've sealed up all the vacuum leaks I've found so far.

      My fuel pressure test kit doesn't have the right T-connections to run the test outlined in the Bentley, so renting one of those is on the plate tomorrow.

      Last edited by toastworks; 06-28-2018 at 12:58 AM.

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      07-02-2018 09:19 PM #18
      The car! She starts!

      The ignition timing was waaaaaay off. Timing belt jumped teeth on the crank sensor. New timing belt going in tomorrow.

      Thank you all who have helped me up until this point!

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      07-03-2018 11:35 PM #19
      Congrats and hats off for saving another one of these babies. Every day that passes there are fewer and fewer. I have pulled a fully functional 1.8 L out of my 81 which came from a donor 92 Jetta which is yours for free if you can find someway of getting it from Ontario Canada. While the car was being restored I figured why not pull the engine and replace it with a 1.8T. Still awaiting my mechanic to work his magic but old engine ran great. Keep up th good work.

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      07-04-2018 08:17 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by Brixy View Post
      Congrats and hats off for saving another one of these babies. Every day that passes there are fewer and fewer. I have pulled a fully functional 1.8 L out of my 81 which came from a donor 92 Jetta which is yours for free if you can find someway of getting it from Ontario Canada. While the car was being restored I figured why not pull the engine and replace it with a 1.8T. Still awaiting my mechanic to work his magic but old engine ran great. Keep up th good work.
      Super cool offer of you, but it's just not possible for me to pull off anytime soon. Being in down in Texas is geographically unfortunate for this offer!

      But yeah, an early 1.8 JH or RD would be ideal for this car.

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      07-18-2018 10:12 PM #21
      She’s been running and idling pretty decently on a couple different days, but yesterday after being fully warmed up (and a little celebratory drive around the back yard!), she sputtered out, backfired and died. This happened after about 10-15 minutes running.

      Tried starting a few more times, but all I got was 3 seconds of cranking, one second of running, a light backfire and then it died.

      Today, it wouldn’t even catch and run at all.

      As far as the mixture control, I was tweaking that cause it smelled like it was running too rich. Is there a point or a mark where I should be starting from? It’s not the original meter plate — it’s from a Mk2 Golf the best I can tell. I’m afraid I leaned it out too much.

      Shouldn’t it catch and run, even if it runs like crap? Or if the mixture is set too lean, would it not run at all?
      Remind me to double check my diagnoses

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      07-19-2018 05:26 AM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by toastworks View Post
      She’s been running and idling pretty decently on a couple different days, but yesterday after being fully warmed up (and a little celebratory drive around the back yard!), she sputtered out, backfired and died. This happened after about 10-15 minutes running.

      Tried starting a few more times, but all I got was 3 seconds of cranking, one second of running, a light backfire and then it died.

      Today, it wouldn’t even catch and run at all.

      As far as the mixture control, I was tweaking that cause it smelled like it was running too rich. Is there a point or a mark where I should be starting from? It’s not the original meter plate — it’s from a Mk2 Golf the best I can tell. I’m afraid I leaned it out too much.

      Shouldn’t it catch and run, even if it runs like crap? Or if the mixture is set too lean, would it not run at all?
      Yes, if it is too lean it won't run.

      Do you have the Bentley manual for your Scirocco?

      There are initial settings for the ignition timing, mixture screw, the idle air bypass screw, the throttle screw and the sensor plate. I don't know about your Scirocco, but the initial sensor plate setting is usually a nickel's width below the edge of the cone or at the edge of the cone depending on the car (hard to describe, it's better with pictures). There is also an initial setting for the mixture screw, but you have to remove the fuel distributer to measure it and you need a depth gauge (at least on the 16V). You can use two steel rules in a pinch and get it "close enough for government work".

      Anyhow, it should start if all of the initial settings are correct. Once you get it running, you can mess with the settings. I don't know how you measure the CO content if you don't have an exhaust sniffer. You could tune it by ear but I don't know how accurate that would be.

      If you can see the spark plugs, you could get a Colortune spark plug if they still make them.

      I adjust the mixture on my old Ford carburetor by checking the vacuum at the intake manifold per the directions in the factory repair manual. The emissions inspection station probably tweaks it using an exhaust sniffer.


      I realize that you are desperate to swap engines so I typed the following:

      EDIT: If you do the following, you may foul things up worse. If you can remember how far you twisted the screw and which direction, try to go back towards the original setting a tiny, tiny bit at a time.

      EDIT: Do not press the gas pedal or rev the engine with the Allen wrench in the mixture screw. Remove the screw if you want to rev it.

      As an alternative to tearing it all apart to set everything to initial settings, you could have somebody crank it while you try to adjust the mixture to see if it catches. If by yourself, you can crank the screw about 1/4 turn and try to start it, then another 1/4 turn and keep doing that until it catches. Once it stays running you can dial it in. Remember to let it warm up before changing settings. (The Bentley says to let the engine fan run before adjusting settings but not to adjust anything when the fan is running)

      EDIT: don't tweak anything else now but the following is for later after you have some experience:

      Keep in mind that you have to go back and forth between mixture, idle air and timing until they are all in spec and the car is running great.

      EDIT: Buy the Bentley and get familiar with it:

      At a bare minimum you should get the Bentley manual for your Scirocco and a Poor Richard's Rabbit book. It only covers to 1980 but that includes your Scirocco. It's also a good fun read and (I think) is the second Idiot book.

      If you swap engines, (and even more so if you swap injection) you also need the Bentley for the car from whence the engine came.
      Last edited by 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN; 07-20-2018 at 02:19 PM.

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      07-19-2018 10:13 AM #23
      I strongly disagree with cranking and randomly turning the mixture screw. In my experience that type of guessing fouls things up worse and will not succeed.

      The process and tool requirements to understand and properly troubleshoot CIS are more than I should type here, and can seem daunting at first, but trust me: an afternoon of reading the Bentley manual, a DIY jumper for the fuel pump relay, a cheap fuel pressure testing kit off EBay, help from us along the way, and you will nail the problem(s) readily.

      Once it's running right, you'll likely want to keep the current setup, which in the end is way less work than a swap.
      It's hard for me to know exactly what these things cost me. I'm guessing a LOT, but I like them, so that's that.

    26. Member J. Daniel's Avatar
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      07-19-2018 10:32 PM #24
      On any project I like to get the hard part out of the way first. No sense to me doing the easy stuff and not being able to fix the hard stuff later.
      The body looks pretty rusted, judging from the driver's door. I'd fix that first cause that's the hardest thing. The engine and fuel system are butt simple compared to that.
      As far as keeping the existing engine once you get it running, Eric's comment, it depends on how experienced you are with rebuilding engines. Assuming it needs a rebuild, building a 1.8 or converting a 1.8 to a 1.9 (pistons only) or 2.0 (pistons & crank) really isn't any harder than rebuilding a 1.6 and the swap is a bolt in.
      Not trying to butt heads, but some people do think I'm a butthead.

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      07-20-2018 02:08 PM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by echassin View Post
      I strongly disagree with cranking and randomly turning the mixture screw. In my experience that type of guessing fouls things up worse and will not succeed.

      The process and tool requirements to understand and properly troubleshoot CIS are more than I should type here, and can seem daunting at first, but trust me: an afternoon of reading the Bentley manual, a DIY jumper for the fuel pump relay, a cheap fuel pressure testing kit off EBay, help from us along the way, and you will nail the problem(s) readily.

      Once it's running right, you'll likely want to keep the current setup, which in the end is way less work than a swap.
      I agree but he has already tweaked it. It won't even catch now.

      It was running but he thought it was too rich so he tweaked the mixture.

      Hopefully he remembers how far he twisted the mixture screw so he can go back to where it was when it was running.

      toastworks,

      Buying a Bentley and setting the mixture screw back to the initial setting is the best way. Make sure you are in the correct fuel section for your Scirocco if there is more than one section. I don't know when CIS-Lambda was introduced and don't know if the mixture setting is the same as with CIS basic.

      I wouldn't bother getting another repair manual except the Poor Richard's Rabbit Book.

      Don't tweak anything else. Remember it was running just days ago. As far as the meter plate, that doesn't matter if it's from a different car as long as it's a CIS plate and it's set correctly. AFAIK, the initial setting should be the same for all CIS cars. Unless it got tweaked or knocked about it should be correct but it doesn't hurt to check.


      One big caution:

      It is possible to twist the mixture screw too far and have it come out of the lever. If you do that you have to tear it all apart to put it back in. It might not be possible to put the screw back in if it comes out.

      I am going to edit my previous reply to clarify a bit.
      Last edited by 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN; 07-20-2018 at 02:14 PM.

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