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    Thread: Human backup driver in autonomous Uber crash was streaming "The Voice"

    1. Senior Member DonL's Avatar
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      06-23-2018 05:24 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by NeverEnoughCars View Post
      It was illegal under the distracted driving laws that were already on the books. It was just rarely enforced.
      Quote Originally Posted by @McMike View Post
      Ah, so there was a national "don't drive distracted" blanket law on the books that wasn't specific toward any single item?
      Quote Originally Posted by NeverEnoughCars View Post
      Not national but most states had some form of distracted driving laws on the books. It is not like distractions started with cell phones.
      Here in Michigan, you'd sometimes hear of somebody being ticketed as "careless driving" which included distractions of various types, and just doing dumb things. As mentioned, though, it was rarely enforced, it just became an early catch-all when somebody screwed up.


      Quote Originally Posted by funnee84bunny View Post
      Totally thought that the driver was a guy when I saw the video when it happened at first. Yikes....
      He was a guy. He went from Rafael to Rafaela post-op.
      "I get my kicks above the waistline, sunshine."

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    3. Geriatric Member spockcat's Avatar
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      06-23-2018 05:26 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by got-rice View Post
      My friends that work (err contract) for Waymo aren't allowed to look at any devices while driving, only a quick swipe of their company phone if a message comes through. Uber vehicle operators seem to have had the better of it until Uber screwed it up for the whole Phoenix operation by not monitoring their employees.
      FTFY (yes the driver was at fault but the company should be spot checking employees to be sure they are doing their work properly)
      Americans hate EVs because they grew up with Power Wheels that were glacially slow, ran out of power in 20 minutes and took an entire day to recharge.

      Trolls ignored: 9

    4. 06-23-2018 06:01 PM #28
      I just did a second take of the first pic and lmao. I don't know what that lady was thinking riding around in a dark road with autonomous vehicles on the prowl. Read the news lady.

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      06-23-2018 07:34 PM #29
      Had HULU streaming the Voice for almost an hour prior to crash.

      eh. Watching the Voice?

      She'll be left off for time served.

    6. 06-23-2018 08:19 PM #30
      Someone show me how to post vids with linky.


      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_47utW...ature=youtu.be


      [/QUOTE]
      Last edited by Prancing Moose; 06-25-2018 at 01:46 PM.

    7. Just Milking my Carrot in the Honda break room. Metallitubby's Avatar
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      06-23-2018 08:28 PM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by Prancing Moose View Post
      Someone show me how to post vids with linky.


      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_47utW...ature=youtu.be
      I can't. I'm driving.
      * My contributions are not representative of American Honda

    8. 06-23-2018 08:42 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by Metallitubby View Post
      I can't. I'm driving.
      Thanks for reading. Look up.

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      06-23-2018 08:44 PM #33
      Gawd ... is that stupid.

      How about standing in front of a loaded gun next time??

      We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

      Oscar Wilde

    10. 06-23-2018 08:53 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by Rory Calhoun View Post
      Gawd ... is that stupid.

      How about standing in front of a loaded gun next time??

      Guess Volvo never fixed the bug.

    11. Geriatric Member @McMike's Avatar
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      06-23-2018 09:01 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by funnee84bunny View Post
      Totally thought that the driver was a guy when I saw the video when it happened at first. Yikes....
      The driver identifies as female.

      At first, this information wasn't available, so there was some confusion. Some sources said "she," some said "he." It wasn't until a few days later that we learned that "she" was the appropriate pronoun.

      It would have been a little easier if she tried a little harder. Woof.

    12. Just Milking my Carrot in the Honda break room. Metallitubby's Avatar
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      06-23-2018 09:54 PM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by Prancing Moose View Post
      Thanks for reading. Look up.
      Sorry, I crashed and killed an entire family. No worries though because the laws and society says so.
      * My contributions are not representative of American Honda

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      06-24-2018 01:16 AM #37
      So... "she" gets a paying job for being a backup human who can control a robot car and gets bored with watching where the car is going and
      starts streaming something else to watch. Then mows down a pedestrian because she isn't paying attention and doing her job.
      Great. The human can't even do one thing without being addicted to visual entertainment. Sad state of affairs these days. Kinda describes why
      we are in such a mess with the phones, etc.

    14. Senior Member Mazda 3s's Avatar
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      06-24-2018 09:12 AM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by funnee84bunny View Post
      Totally thought that the driver was a guy when I saw the video when it happened at first. Yikes....
      "Of course that's just my opinion; I could be wrong."

      Quote Originally Posted by The Igneous Faction
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      No, I got good grades in school

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      06-24-2018 12:28 PM #39
      Uber policy:

      Everyone deserves a second chance
      Well, when it comes to who you choose for "safety backup human", you might want to up your head hunting skills.
      Quote Originally Posted by cartalk
      "As near as I could tell, the car was built from compressed rust."

    16. Senior Member AZGolf's Avatar
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      06-24-2018 03:31 PM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by Prancing Moose View Post
      Guess Volvo never fixed the bug.
      The car in the video wasn't equipped with the automatic braking system. It was an option and the car in the video did not include the optional equipment. Old video is old.

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      06-25-2018 07:40 AM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by @McMike View Post
      The driver identifies as female.

      At first, this information wasn't available, so there was some confusion. Some sources said "she," some said "he." It wasn't until a few days later that we learned that "she" was the appropriate pronoun.

      It would have been a little easier if she tried a little harder. Woof.
      indeed
      Quote Originally Posted by mitch hedberg
      I drive a rental car, I don't know what's going on with it, right? So a lot of times I'll drive for like 10 miles with the emergency brake on. That doesn't say a lot for me, but it really doesn't say a lot for the emergency brake.
      Quote Originally Posted by Robstr View Post
      How hard is that to understand without getting your panties in a bunch?
      Surely some of you guys managed to make it out of middle school.

    18. Member
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      06-25-2018 10:38 AM #42
      Maybe Uber should use winners of The Voice, to test these cars?
      The Voice cranks out two winners per year, and they are almost immediately plunged back into obscurity.
      If Uber teams up with The Voice, at least the "winners" know that they'd have a job as human guinea pigs,
      once their time in the spotlight is up.

    19. Senior Member Mike!'s Avatar
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      06-25-2018 11:19 AM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by NeverEnoughCars View Post
      Not national but most states had some form of distracted driving laws on the books. It is not like distractions started with cell phones.
      Most?

      Holding a cell phone to your ear while driving wasn't illegal in most states until about 15 years ago. I remember NY introducing a law against it around 2003... OH didn't have one until later. Didn't GA just pass one now?

      Gonna have to see your sources for "most states" having "distracted driving laws" prior to cell phones.

      [Edit]Two seconds of Googling indicates NY was indeed first to ban, in 2001. http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/10/1/11 I'm not aware of blanket distracted driving laws predating this.
      Last edited by Mike!; 06-25-2018 at 11:22 AM.

    20. Banned NeverEnoughCars's Avatar
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      06-25-2018 11:36 AM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
      Most?

      Holding a cell phone to your ear while driving wasn't illegal in most states until about 15 years ago. I remember NY introducing a law against it around 2003... OH didn't have one until later. Didn't GA just pass one now?

      Gonna have to see your sources for "most states" having "distracted driving laws" prior to cell phones.

      [Edit]Two seconds of Googling indicates NY was indeed first to ban, in 2001. http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/10/1/11 I'm not aware of blanket distracted driving laws predating this.
      They were not called distracted driving laws. They fell under other blanket driving laws like careless driving. The problem was that no one really was enforcing them so slowly targeted laws started to get passed to deal with the issue. But that doesn't mean it was legal.

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      06-25-2018 05:11 PM #45
      Uber:
      Who know she'd be wiggin' out on Hulu?

    22. Geriatric Member spockcat's Avatar
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      09-15-2020 11:06 PM #46
      Safety driver in fatal Arizona Uber self-driving car crash charged with homicide

      WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The back-up safety driver behind the wheel of a self-driving Uber Technologies UBER.N test vehicle that struck and killed a woman in Tempe, Arizona, in 2018 was charged with negligent homicide, prosecutors said on Tuesday.

      Rafael Vasquez, age 46, who is also known as Rafaela, pleaded not guilty on Tuesday after being charged in the death of Elaine Herzberg on Aug. 27, court records show. She was released pending trial set for February 2021.

      Herzberg died after she was struck while walking a bicycle across a street at night. The first recorded death involving a self-driving vehicle prompted significant safety concerns about the nascent autonomous vehicle industry.

      Uber declined comment. A lawyer for Vasquez did not immediately respond to a request to comment.

      A Tempe police report said Vasquez was repeatedly looking down instead of keeping her eyes on the road. Prosecutors in March 2019 said Uber was not criminally liable in the crash.

      “Distracted driving is an issue of great importance in our community,” said Maricopa County Attorney Allister Adel. “When a driver gets behind the wheel of a car, they have a responsibility to control and operate that vehicle safely.”

      Police said previously the crash was “entirely avoidable” and that Vasquez was streaming “The Voice” TV program at the time of the crash.

      In November, the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) faulted Vasquez’s inactions and Uber for inadequate attention to safety and decisions in the company’s autonomous vehicle development.

      The NTSB said the probable cause was Vasquez’s failure to monitor the driving environment “because she was visually distracted throughout the trip by her personal cell phone.” She was supposed to act in the event of an emergency.

      Uber made a series of development decisions that contributed to the crash’s cause, the NTSB said. The software in the modified Volvo XC90 did not properly identify Herzberg as a pedestrian and did not address “operators’ automation complacency.”

      Uber deactivated the automatic emergency braking systems in the Volvo XC90 vehicle and precluded the use of immediate emergency braking, relying instead on the back-up driver.
      Americans hate EVs because they grew up with Power Wheels that were glacially slow, ran out of power in 20 minutes and took an entire day to recharge.

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    23. Senior Member AZGolf's Avatar
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      09-16-2020 12:05 AM #47
      That works for me. A little strange that it took more than 2 years to file charges, but speedy trials apparently aren't a thing anymore, so whatever.

    24. Member GLI Dan's Avatar
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      09-16-2020 10:42 AM #48
      Sucks for the driver. Quick google for AZ Neg. Homicide says 1st time offense 1 year minimum 3.75 maximum. I think many here would agree with me that at this stage of autonomous driving, I would be 95% as attentive as if I had full control. This is a fledgling technology that is still being designed/created/revised. I cannot imagine sitting in my vehicle watching a tv show while barreling down the road. Would I be looking around at my surroundings and observing things other than the road directly in front of me, it would be a lie to say I wouldn't. But engaging in another activity all together, nope. Totally trusting a new technology while 99% of the world still hasnt implemented it nor become used to it, this is the expected outcome. Idiot crosses dark street, at night, in front of vehicle. bigger idiot in vehicle trusts autonomous tech. People are dumb at 11.

      "Uber deactivated the automatic emergency braking systems in the Volvo XC90 vehicle and precluded the use of immediate emergency braking, relying instead on the back-up driver."

      ^that line on the other hand. Is it misleading? It implies that there was no auto braking system b/c the Volvo system was deactivated, however I'm assuming that is because the autonomous system they were testing has its own and they would likely interfere with one another. The other question, would the Volvo system have stopped for a pedestrian crossing the street? Some of these systems are only good for recognizing that you are rapidly approaching a giant hunk of metal directly in front of you, not so much the pedestrian crossing the street.
      Quote Originally Posted by DzlDub View Post
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    25. Geriatric Member spockcat's Avatar
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      09-16-2020 10:48 AM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by GLI Dan View Post
      Sucks for the driver. Quick google for AZ Neg. Homicide says 1st time offense 1 year minimum 3.75 maximum. I think many here would agree with me that at this stage of autonomous driving, I would be 95% as attentive as if I had full control. This is a fledgling technology that is still being designed/created/revised. I cannot imagine sitting in my vehicle watching a tv show while barreling down the road. Would I be looking around at my surroundings and observing things other than the road directly in front of me, it would be a lie to say I wouldn't. But engaging in another activity all together, nope. Totally trusting a new technology while 99% of the world still hasnt implemented it nor become used to it, this is the expected outcome. Idiot crosses dark street, at night, in front of vehicle. bigger idiot in vehicle trusts autonomous tech. People are dumb at 11.

      "Uber deactivated the automatic emergency braking systems in the Volvo XC90 vehicle and precluded the use of immediate emergency braking, relying instead on the back-up driver."

      ^that line on the other hand. Is it misleading? It implies that there was no auto braking system b/c the Volvo system was deactivated, however I'm assuming that is because the autonomous system they were testing has its own and they would likely interfere with one another. The other question, would the Volvo system have stopped for a pedestrian crossing the street? Some of these systems are only good for recognizing that you are rapidly approaching a giant hunk of metal directly in front of you, not so much the pedestrian crossing the street.

      How many Tesla accidents have there been already with owners/drivers who were either engaged in other activities or just flat out not paying attention? And a number of those accidents you look at and shake your head and ask why didn't the vehicle's drivers aids prevent the accident even though the driver was not paying attention. This is technology that should be tested by better trained professionals, preferably in private, controlled settings. Not by amateurs on uncontrolled public roads.
      Americans hate EVs because they grew up with Power Wheels that were glacially slow, ran out of power in 20 minutes and took an entire day to recharge.

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      09-16-2020 12:23 PM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by spockcat View Post
      How many Tesla accidents have there been already with owners/drivers who were either engaged in other activities or just flat out not paying attention? And a number of those accidents you look at and shake your head and ask why didn't the vehicle's drivers aids prevent the accident even though the driver was not paying attention. This is technology that should be tested by better trained professionals, preferably in private, controlled settings. Not by amateurs on uncontrolled public roads.
      This ^^.

      I think both Uber and Tesla are irresponsible in this regard. We are still at L2 autonomous driving technology-wise. I really don't thin that's good enough for public roads personally.
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