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    Thread: 2018 Mazda CX-5 diesel kinda stinks

    1. Member BUJonathan's Avatar
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      08-10-2018 11:59 AM #1
      Quote Originally Posted by Car and Driver
      2018 Mazda CX-5 Diesel EPA Numbers Are Out, and They’re Not Great

      Mazda’s first diesel-powered vehicle in the United States is finally certified, but judging by the bench numbers, it’s no mileage champ.

      Mazda has yet to confirm when Americans might actually buy a CX-5 diesel—seriously, we’ve been sweet-talked into thinking this could happen for eight years—and now, we’re wondering if any Americans will. The Environmental Protection Agency published its estimates for a 2018 CX-5 diesel at 28 mpg city and 31 mpg highway for the front-wheel drive version and 27/30 mpg with all-wheel drive. Compared to the gasoline version, city mileage improves by just 3 mpg for both diesels. Highway mileage, normally the reason anyone buys a diesel, improves not at all.

      We last heard of the CX-5 diesel after spotting a test car in September. Mazda previously had confirmed that the 2.2-liter turbo-diesel four, which in overseas markets is rated at 173 horsepower and 310 lb-ft of torque, would be available for the 2017 model year. It had also promised a diesel on the 6 sedan and even went so far as to estimate it would reach more than 40 mpg highway on the previous-gen model. With the 2018 model year nearly over, we’re uncertain whether Mazda will proceed or drop the curtain entirely—and Mazda isn’t saying.

      Well before the Volkswagen emissions scandal hit, Mazda had been struggling to make its diesel engines meet stringent U.S. tailpipe standards without sacrificing performance. The company told us last year that its Skyactiv-D engine “could be made to drive the way we wanted or it could meet U.S. emissions, but not both.” If Mazda can’t eke out any more efficiency on the highway cycle, it’s clear which path engineers chose. In an effort to reduce nitrogen oxide and particulate matter, we’re betting Mazda had to increase fuel consumption downstream (for example, to keep the particulate filter clean by burning off excess soot), hence the minimal improvement in the EPA ratings.

      Making matters worse is that the CX-5 diesel’s direct competitor, the Chevrolet Equinox diesel, matches or betters the CX-5 in the city and trounces it on the highway, at either 39 mpg (front-wheel drive) or 38 mpg. The Jaguar F-Pace 20d (26/33) exceeds the Mazda’s 29-mpg combined rating. Even the much heavier Jeep Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel 4WD (21/28 mpg) and Range Rover Sport Td6 (22/28 mpg) ride perilously close to its highway rating.

      With a gallon of diesel currently priced at an average of 28 cents above regular gasoline, we’re not too hopeful for this long-awaited Mazda’s future. Maybe all that torque could give the little ute some trailer-towing cred beyond its 2000-pound rating, but even that is an open question as long as Mazda keeps holding its car close to its vest. It’s hard to make an argument that it’s needed, because, even without the diesel option, the CX-5 is the brand’s best-selling model and won the award for its segment in our 10Best Trucks and SUVs evaluations.
      https://www.caranddriver.com/news/20...my-is-not-good
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    3. Member BUJonathan's Avatar
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      08-10-2018 12:01 PM #2
      Link to the Fuel Economy.gov update:
      https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Powe...g=&rowLimit=10
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    4. Member E CODE's Avatar
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      08-10-2018 12:14 PM #3
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      08-10-2018 12:20 PM #4
      That is pretty disappointing. But I also feel that Mazda did a great job making its SkyActive gas engines so efficient.

      Fuelly reports an average of 25.7 mpg for 2018 CX-5 users. Curious to see what real world mileage looks like for the diesel. I consistently seem to be able to beat EPA estimates whenever I have a diesel, but never meet them with my gas cars.

    6. Member TangoRed's Avatar
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      08-10-2018 12:21 PM #5
      Not surprised. They probably made a lot of compromises to keep up with emissions expectations. EDIT: Had I read the article, I would've confirmed that suspicion.
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      08-10-2018 12:25 PM #6
      Hrrmpfff.

      I am really quite surprised. Those numbers do pretty much suck. Especially when you consider what the Equinox gets.

      Even though its not likely I would be buying one, I really wanted this path to work out. More options on the market is better. Starting up (or reviving) diesels especially in typically low MPG CUV/SUV market, should be a good thing for customers and the planet.

      But what came out doesn't match up with what could have been.

    8. Senior Member Mazda 3s's Avatar
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      08-10-2018 12:29 PM #7
      "Of course that's just my opinion; I could be wrong."

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    9. Senior Member Mike!'s Avatar
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      08-10-2018 12:32 PM #8
      Lest we forget the reason Mazda delayed the Mazda6 diesel those years ago was not getting competitive MPG figures out of an EPA-emissions-compliant tune. Now we know the competition was cheating.

      28/31, 27/30 isn't amazing next to an Equinox 28/39, 28/38 when looked at in isolation, but the Equinox is also slow. 137hp/240lbft, 10+ seconds 0-60 https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...t-drive-review

      If the Mazda's a 173hp/310lbft 2.2 versus the Nox's 1.6, it may be worth the highway MPG penalty.

    10. Member simple's Avatar
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      08-10-2018 12:40 PM #9
      Mildly disappointed. I think the following will still put us as buying one in the future

      1. If similar to my Q5 experience, the real world MPG results will be better than the EPA results

      2. Where I live diesel is less expensive than premium gas. So I get the benefit of a turbo and the price at the pump is less.
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      08-10-2018 12:42 PM #10
      well damn, i've been sweet talking my wife into this idea for the last year. now she's going to immediately flip back to the Mistu Outlander PHEV.
      praise the lowered
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      08-10-2018 12:51 PM #11
      "Mazda Caught Cheating On Emissions And Fuel Economy Tests"
      Last edited by driveareliablecar; 08-10-2018 at 03:03 PM.

    13. Member ice4life's Avatar
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      08-10-2018 12:52 PM #12
      I still think i'd prefer a cx5 diesel to an exuinox or terrain diesel which is really the only competition.

    14. Member RogueTDI's Avatar
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      08-10-2018 01:10 PM #13
      Thanks EPA, so glad we have you.

    15. Member col.mustard's Avatar
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      08-10-2018 01:13 PM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by RogueTDI View Post
      Thanks EPA, so glad we have you.
      Can'tTellIfJoking.jpg
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      Originally Posted by George Bluth >>
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      08-10-2018 01:17 PM #15
      I bet it will get consistent fuel economy while towing

    17. Member Samson's Avatar
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      08-10-2018 01:41 PM #16
      So, what is the point of a small diesel CUV like this? I'm sure that a potentially increased towing capacity appeals to a (very) small handful of buyers, but why buy this over hybrid whatever, or even something like a 1.5t CR-V? Fuelly shows those at a 28mpg average (1mpg lower than EPA), and the Rav4 hybrid at 32mpg (matches EPA). Plus, no need to pay more money for fuel or the likely increased cost of the initial buy-in, not to mention the untested long-range ownership costs. I don't get it.

    18. Member Maximum_Download's Avatar
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      08-10-2018 01:42 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by ice4life View Post
      I still think i'd prefer a cx5 diesel to an exuinox or terrain diesel which is really the only competition.
      There's plenty of competition if you open the consideration up to other types of engines.

      The only convincing entry here is the Equinox if you HAVE to have diesel. The problem with this isn't the engine...it's the insistence on diesel lovers on having an option, even if it's a bad one.

      Diesel needs to die.
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      08-10-2018 01:54 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by dunhamjr View Post
      Hrrmpfff.

      I am really quite surprised. Those numbers do pretty much suck. Especially when you consider what the Equinox gets.

      Even though its not likely I would be buying one, I really wanted this path to work out. More options on the market is better. Starting up (or reviving) diesels especially in typically low MPG CUV/SUV market, should be a good thing for customers and the planet.

      But what came out doesn't match up with what could have been.
      On a related note, what kind of mileage are you seeing on my Old Mazda6? I averaged about 28.3MPG according to fuelly, but I live in a hot area at altitude. That 2.5L Skyactiv was a gas sipper -- I'm just curious what kind of mileage you're seeing out in the PNW?
      Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk
      this is due to your inexperience with performance driving . . . you really do have to take a car to a performance driving event, track day, autocross, ice race etc to get a feel for how a car actually performs. and you have to have the knowledge and skill to be able to manipulate the car in such a way as to get it and keep it at the edge.

    20. Member SchnellFowVay's Avatar
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      08-10-2018 01:58 PM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
      If the Mazda's a 173hp/310lbft 2.2 versus the Nox's 1.6, it may be worth the highway MPG penalty.
      Or just buy the standard ~185hp 2.5L sky active gas engine that gets great mileage, and pretty much drives like a diesel anyway. Sure, you won't get the gut punch of torque at low RPMs, but how important is that?

      That's he real issue here. If it was 2001, these numbers wouldn't be terrible. But in 2018 many manufacturers (including Mazda, on the exact same CX-5) offer gasoline engines with great reliability, great mileage, and decedent power. That, combined with the emissions and compliance issues with diesel, the cost of diesel fuel (in most states), and the general costs of maintaining diesels (particulate filters, etc.), really makes diesel a dying choice.
      Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk
      this is due to your inexperience with performance driving . . . you really do have to take a car to a performance driving event, track day, autocross, ice race etc to get a feel for how a car actually performs. and you have to have the knowledge and skill to be able to manipulate the car in such a way as to get it and keep it at the edge.

    21. Member RogueTDI's Avatar
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      08-10-2018 02:10 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by Samson View Post
      So, what is the point of a small diesel CUV like this? I'm sure that a potentially increased towing capacity appeals to a (very) small handful of buyers, but why buy this over hybrid whatever, or even something like a 1.5t CR-V? Fuelly shows those at a 28mpg average (1mpg lower than EPA), and the Rav4 hybrid at 32mpg (matches EPA). Plus, no need to pay more money for fuel or the likely increased cost of the initial buy-in, not to mention the untested long-range ownership costs. I don't get it.
      Jesus, every complaint you have is more appropriate to a hybrid.

      I would sell a body part for a small SUV with a quality diesel. A Macan or Tiguan diesel was a dream. Still would love one.

      Untested long term ownership?? Why would anyone want a diesel (100 year old proven technology) over modern Li-ion hybrids? Were you born yesterday?

    22. Member ice4life's Avatar
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      08-10-2018 02:13 PM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by Maximum_Download View Post
      There's plenty of competition if you open the consideration up to other types of engines.

      The only convincing entry here is the Equinox if you HAVE to have diesel. The problem with this isn't the engine...it's the insistence on diesel lovers on having an option, even if it's a bad one.

      Diesel needs to die.
      Sorry but I wholeheartedly disagree. It's not a bad option- and it takes owning one and seeing the benefits (range and torque). My Touareg diesel was one of the best balances between power and mpgs of any of the 24 cars I've had. Someone who drives a highlander most likely will never understand.

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      08-10-2018 02:15 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by Maximum_Download View Post
      There's plenty of competition if you open the consideration up to other types of engines.

      The only convincing entry here is the Equinox if you HAVE to have diesel. The problem with this isn't the engine...it's the insistence on diesel lovers on having an option, even if it's a bad one.

      Diesel needs to die.
      I think certain people need to die. In fact, any vehicle you are interested in just needs to be banned.

      Seriously wtf is wrong with people. Anything you have some distaste for just needs to be erradicated? I am so ****ing sick of ignorant millenials.

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      08-10-2018 02:19 PM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by RogueTDI View Post

      Seriously wtf is wrong with people. Anything you have some distaste for just needs to be erradicated?.
      Kinda like you and EVs/hybrids? Hypocrite much?

      So sick of ignorant diesel dubbers.
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      08-10-2018 02:20 PM #24
      Isn’t the Turbo coming to the CX-5 for 2019? That makes the diesel look even worse.

      I guess Mazda can’t have too many powertrain options for the CX-5... it’s their bread and butter after all.

    26. Member Samson's Avatar
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      08-10-2018 02:26 PM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by RogueTDI View Post
      Jesus, every complaint you have is more appropriate to a hybrid.

      I would sell a body part for a small SUV with a quality diesel. A Macan or Tiguan diesel was a dream. Still would love one.

      Untested long term ownership?? Why would anyone want a diesel (100 year old proven technology) over modern Li-ion hybrids? Were you born yesterday?
      True, there is an increased initial cost with a hybrid (what, $1,300 for the Rav4?), but that's pretty much the only penalty. You're a bit of an outlier and would probably buy a diesel anything over any other option, so I'm not sure you're going to get my perspective.

      For your last point, I was referring to the subject at hand: Mazda's diesel is unproven, and they don't always seem to do so great with new, somewhat complex engines. Come on now.

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