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    Thread: A Big Turbo B6 Passat Build – Comfy Commuter/Sleeper & Weekend Track Warrior

    1. Member
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      2007 Black B6 ___________ Passat, 2.0T ___________ 2004 Grey Silverado ___________ 1500, 5.3L Z71
      09-14-2019 04:13 PM #26
      NEW POST IS LIVE!

      I've updated the end of post #11 to include information and pictures of a custom CNC machined subframe dogbone pendulum bar designed to perfectly fit the B6 Passat platform. Many aftermarket companies erroneously market their Mk5 platform pendulum bars to fit the B6 Passat but this is incorrect. Most people aren't aware of that just like most people aren't aware that the B6 Passat factory pendulum bar is a different part # than that of the Mk5 platform (which means different specs). The B6 Passat's is actually a little bit longer and so to fit a Mk5 platform pendulum bar, whether OEM or aftermarket, requires forcing the fitment which has some side effects.

      Read the "Custom Machined Dogbone Pendulum bar" section towards the end of post #11 for much more info and some cool pics of the fabrication process and final fitment!

      In other news... I promise I'll get to the big turbo-related post in the next month or so. I know I've been saying this time and time again but I just haven't gotten around to it with all the other projects I have going on with the car and the business of track season, on top of work and personal life, so it's just fallen by the wayside for a bit. Once track season is over - my last track day is September 16 - I'll have more time and energy to put into the build thread and I'll finally get that post out!
      Last edited by Thy_Harrowing; 01-09-2020 at 08:22 PM.
      Instagram: @track_rat_passat
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    3. Member
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      09-18-2019 03:50 AM #27
      FINALLY, after lots of delays I was able to get to the track for the first time this season. It's probably also the only time I'll get out to the track this season as I have too much going on to get out there before it gets colder. Next year will hopefully be different and I'll hopefully get started with track days early on in the season. But for now, enjoy this pretty length vid of some highlights. Apologies for the quality, I don't have the best setup for this kind of recording, although to be honest the video was actually pretty clear before it got compressed a lot to go online.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx_U17KwiqU&t
      Last edited by Thy_Harrowing; 01-15-2020 at 10:58 PM.
      Instagram: @track_rat_passat
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      09-26-2019 08:50 PM #28
      Update on Upcoming Mods

      Well folks, the trend towards a more track-oriented car continues. My time at the track this past 2019 season made me come to terms with one major problem with my build that I was not previously looking far ahead or clearly enough to see coming... my build runs too HOT!

      It would already run a tad on the hot side on the street if I was driving hard but the track is just a completely different ball game. My coolant temps at the track would reach 240F rather quickly and while they system was able to regulate it enough to get them back down, they'd spike back up at times too. I can only imagine what the oil temps were; I don't have a gauge for that but I'm sure they were not great. I'm already pushing this engine to its limits on power so I cannot afford to add additional stress with heat, if I ignore those issues it will doom my engine; I would not expect it to last a full 2020 season in those conditions so I have to do something.

      Up until recently I was of the mindset that I'd just make it as long as I can on this engine without going out of my way to baby it because the sooner I have an excuse or just have the money saved to do an engine build the better... but after this last season I realize that is not the right approach because if I don't take care of these heat management issues it would be bad for my future hypothetical build engine too. Heat management must be dealt with as priority #1. Therefore, I plan to do the following over Winter in prep for 2020 track season:

      1) Remove my Wagner Tuning IC in favor of a Treadstone TR8C "true" FMIC: I do not do this lightly because the Wagner Tuning IC (which I will cover thoroughly in my retro-active BT build post I have yet to finish), is a beast. It is of phenomenal quality and it is very effective in and of itself... however, it has one downside. It is enormous and it is thick, so it substantially reduced airflow to the radiator behind it and I blame that for at least 50% of my issues with coolant temps at the track and even high-ish temps on the street. Do NOT be fooled; contrary to popular belief, "true" FMIC are NOT better than a good quality stock location IC (not on their own merits anyway) and I will explain that thoroughly in my BT build post that I'm working on, but THIS situation I'm having is basically the one case in which the FMIC is the better choice. Heavy abuse/performance driving necessitates better flow to the radiator and much space between the radiator and IC.

      The TR8C is large, for a FMIC, and it does not come with any kind of kit for mounting. It is just a core. I will be fabricating my own mounting and piping solutions so expect some great photo bombing when it's done!

      2) Replace factory water-cooled oil cooler w/ external air-cooled unit: The factory oil cooler is cooled via the water/coolant mixture. This means, similar to the oil cooler/radiator relationship when they are too close, if one is getting too hot then the other is going to get too hot and it becomes a cyclical issue where they have a hard time regulating themselves. The solution is to separate them. I will be removing the factory cooler in favor of an external air-cooled oil cooler which I will mount somewhere near the slat/cover where for fog-light (if I had one) on the driver's side corner. I will either cut vents in it or just remove it entirely to feed cool air right to the new oil cooler.

      3) Install oil temp and oil pressure gauges: Pretty self-explanatory... I really want to know what my oil temps are at now. Of course, it'll be too late to know how bad they WERE, but at least I'll know how good they (hopefully) are after all these mods. I also want to know the oil pressure. Other then the obvious reason that it is good to know for the sake of engine health, I also want to know because: A) oil pressure can drop during very hard right-handers because oil sloshes away from the oil pump pickup tube in the pan; B) I am going to be deleting the balance shaft assembly in the oil pump and want to make sure everything remains good there; C) low oil pressure can give early warnings of issues with engine internal tolerances

      4) Install a full-blown water/meth injection setup: Let me be clear, I never wanted this. I swore I'd never get sucked up into the WMI craze because it's not all it is cracked up to be. At least not the way most people use it these days. Most people are using it as supplementary fueling and octane boosting to suffice for insufficient primary fueling so that they can still run very advanced timing and make lots more power. It does work for that, surely. But it's very foolish. These folks ramble about how their electronic safety systems will save them if the WMI stops spraying just the right amount for even a second (and it will because it is a matter of WHEN not IF)... Then I ask them: "Do you really think if your engine is rotating at, say, 6000RPMs / 100 rotations per SECOND, multiplied by the frequency of the intake and combustion strokes for your W/M solution, per cylinder, per revolution, that your safety system is going to step in and pull timing in time to stop you from melting a piston or worse?" Usually I get no response because there is no good response. There's no chance. The safety systems would have to be predictive, not reactive, to protect in that scenario. WMI is simply not safe to rely on. It also doesn't clean intake valves nearly as well as people say. A lot of folks say that there basic post-intercooler WMI nozzle is keeping their intake valves squeaky free of carbon... well, if that is true then they are not reaping the full benefits of the WMI because the solution should be completely atomized and evaporated long BEFORE it hits the intake valves. If it isn't then it isn't cooling the air as much as it could. The only way that you can have a bit of intake cleaning action is if you have direct port injected WMI at your intake manifold runners but even then, a majority of the solution should be evaporated before it hits the valve stems if it is going to do its job to the greatest extent possible for cooling. So the valve cleaning action of WMI is greatly overstated; a properly setup WMI system is almost (but not entirely) mutually exclusive with any significant valve cleaning action; but, yes, it will certainly help.

      That said, I'm very critical of WMI and most peoples reasons for using it, but there is one good reason to use it and that is obviously for COOLING. I will be running a post-turbo + post-intercooler + direct port injection setup which will massively decrease intake air temps, massively reduce the demands on the smaller IC I'll be running, and massively reduce combustion temps which, in turn, will mean reduced exhaust gas temps, which will then mean reduced turbocharger temps, all of which will mean much lower coolant and oil temps and a happier running engine/turbo. Everything will be cooler and happer; heat is the ENEMY for any car, especially a track car. Bonus: the latent advantages granted by lower temps for combustion and the fact that I'll have no timing pull even under the hardest usage will grant passive power increases despite not tuning for the octane boost at all; I would expect between 5-10% HP max (20-40HP)

      5) Deleting oil pump balance shaft units: I'll get into more depth on this one in a future post in terms of WHY, for those of you who don't already know about the notorious oil pump balance shaft issues. In short, removing the balance shafts will eliminate a major failure point of this engine for high HP, high revving builds, as well as increase oil capacity and thus reduce chances of oil starvation during tight right-hand cornering at the track, and even free up some power. The reduced rotation mass linked to the crankshaft will probably free up something like 5% HP (about 20HP), similar to how a Fluidampr pulley mod can free up 10-20hp.


      __________________________________________________ __________________


      Okay... I got into a little more detail then I meant to there... I'll leave it at that, but rest assured that's only a snippet of what is to come. After I've finished my BT build post and then my subsequent post about the above mods when they are done, readers should have a pretty damn thorough understanding of what it takes to build a properly reliable high HP stock-engine 2.0T and all the principles that one needs to consider that go into reliability. It's anyone's guess how long this stock engine will last but it's already lasted a good deal of time considering the level of abuse I put it through and considering how much power I'm asking of it. Unless this last season took its toll on it in an irreversible manner then I suspect that with the above modifications it should make it through 2020 track season and that would be damn impressive (especially consider I fully expect to be around the 440bhp mark and a commensurate amount of torque by that point).
      Instagram: @track_rat_passat
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      11-12-2019 02:11 AM #29
      UPDATE:

      1) One of the forums I had my build thread posted on (Passat World) recently underwent some changes and one of them is that thread owners can NOT edit posts beyond a few days old. That completely ruined my build thread on that forum because it would drive me absolutely nuts if I couldn't edit my mod list on on the main post #1 as time goes on (among plenty of other things).

      It got me paranoid enough that I have created a fully formatted word doc out of all the content in the thread right now. It's not just a copy-paste of the BBCode from each post in here, it has all the same pics imbedded in the Doc, all the bold/italics/underlines for headings and read-ability, and I also added hyperlinks in the Table of Contents that are linked to the corresponding section in the doc for faster navigation. It may actually be even more ideal than using the forum and I WILL be updating that word doc along with this thread so they will both remain up -to-date.... UNLESS VWVortex goes the way of Passat World, which is the main reason I created the word doc version and put the link in the main post at the very top already. I'll keep that link the same and that way folks can always access the latest on the build if VWVortex goes the way of Passat World.

      2) I'M 75% DONE THE BIG TURBO POST (#12)!!! I would have been done already but I sunk A LOT of time into putting the above mentioned doc together. Actually the BT post is already over the forum character limit so I'm gonna have to figure out how I want to handle that LOL. But, anyway, the wait is almost over!... if anyone's really been waiting this long

      3) After I get the BT post up I'm aiming to have a fast-follower to cover the below mods because I'm going to be doing 90% of the stuff in the below list next week if it all goes smoothly

      • Replace Wagner Tuning IC with TR8 FMIC/custom piping (to improve airflow to radiator at track)
      • Remove Mishimoto radiator and revert back to OE radiator… after 1.5 years with the Mishi rad I am hard-pressed to see any benefit to water/coolant temps from it and I’ve heard from a few trusted sources that the cores are not particularly reliable (mine has been so far but I don’t want to risk it at the track). There are enough BT and track VWs with factory radiators and no water/coolant temp issues that I think I was getting ahead of myself with “upgrading”
      • Delete AC/condenser to allow direct air flow straight to the radiator
      • Replace factory oil cooler with BAR-TEK oil cooler connected to external 19-row air-cooled oil cooler mounted in place of deleted AC condenser (oil will be both water AND air cooled now)
      • Remove/delete balance shaft units in oil pump (eliminates a major failure point, increases oil capacity to decrease odds of oil starvation during heavy cornering, reduced rotational mass on crankshaft)
      • Convert Integrated Engineering valve cover/catch can setup to vent-to-atmosphere (VTA) filter setup routed under car (reduced upkeep needed at track when oil consumption is high)
      • Install New South Performance oil pressure/oil temp gauges to double-gauge steering wheel pod (allows extra insight into running conditions of engine at track)
      • Install WMI w/ post-turbo + post-intercooler + direct port injection nozzles for COOLING only, NOT to tune for additional power (this setup will allow dramatically lower intake air temps, combustion temps, exhaust gas temps, and thus a happier engine/turbo)

      Question For the Audience:

      At this point, or especially after the point that I do the above upcoming mods in the quote, would you say that I have totally invalidated the title of my build thread and the balance that I initially intended to strike with this car? Why or why not?

      Just curious for your thoughts. I haven't used this car as a commuter in 2 years so it's kinda irrelevant either way because its purpose and use have changed, but I find myself wonder "COULD it still be capable of living up to title of the thread that I never originally expected to become untrue?"
      Last edited by Thy_Harrowing; 01-09-2020 at 08:22 PM.
      Instagram: @track_rat_passat
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      12-08-2019 02:35 AM #30
      IT'S HERE, IT'S FINALLY HERE!


      Post #12 is live and covers the "big turbo" upgrade. There is substantial info on turbo selection considerations, wastegate considerations, boost control subjects, and some tuning related subjects. There was a lot more that I did around the time I did the big turbo upgrade and I was going to cover that in the same post but just what I have written already had to be paired down to fit in the character limits of a post so I'm breaking it down into two parts.

      Part two will be out next (it will cover engine limitations, intercooling, fueling upgrades, and a couple more things!

      After that the only post I have left to complete is the one on the recent upgrades I did in prep for 2020 track season and then this build thread will finally be caught up with the status of the car
      Last edited by Thy_Harrowing; 01-09-2020 at 08:22 PM.
      Instagram: @track_rat_passat
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      01-09-2020 08:22 PM #31
      BIG UPDATE!


      I finally finished the second half of the big turbo build project and many related supporting parts! Turns out my previous post about being 75% done was way off because I got carried away once I got back into writing it, as I usually do, and went into frankly gross technical depth on a few of the subjects, mainly intercooling. So I had to split it into 2 different posts due to character limits. I merged 2 much earlier posts (#4 and #5) into one to make some room for the now 3 total posts spanning the big turbo project details.


      Here's what to expect loads of detail on:

      Post #13: Stock engine limitations; Fluidampr pulley; fueling upgrades; intake manifolds upgrades

      Post #14: Air cooling (w/ upgraded intercoolers) and water cooling (w/ upgraded radiators)
      Instagram: @track_rat_passat
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      01-12-2020 12:58 AM #32
      NEW WHEELS!


      Got new wheels delivered today. Neuspeed Hyper Silver RSe11R 18x9" w/ 45mm offset, hub bore 57.1mm so no hub rings needed, and only 19lbs. per wheel. Amazingly light for the size of the wheel. They should be strong though as they are flow-form casted which is a process similar to forging and yields pretty close strength.

      These will be paired with my Summer/track tires (currently 255/35R18 Hankook Ventus R-S4 200AA A tires).

      Just unboxed and inspected them for today, won't be mounting tires for a few months until the track season starts. Finish is superb and although I did get these wheels mainly for their specs I do like the spoke design as it is simple and understated. I don't like wheels that scream for too much attention. All things considered, Neuspeed hits it out of the park with this wheel.

      Can't wait to get them mounted!




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      01-15-2020 11:14 PM #33
      Got some videos for your guys today.

      VIDEO #1:

      I was logging some data the other night and when I was done I figured I'd use the time to give my new GoPro Hero7, mainly to test it out with the helmet side-mount. The Hero7 records 4K at 30FPS @ 1440p @ 60FPS. This recording and all my 2020 track recordings will be 1440p @ 60FPS since the FPS is more important. The video itself is short and kinda crappy because it is night out but it was a successful test in that I like the camera angle with this side-mount on my helmet. Plan is to use this angle, plus my dash cameras front-of-car angle, and maybe even the rear angle from the dash cam too so that I can record cars in rear-view as I'm passing.

      https://drive.google.com/open?id=16_...suqWOlcnL3V1Bn


      VIDEO #2:

      I also spent a bunch of time cleaning up and re-ordered the track video I posted in September. It is now only 8 mins long, but it used to be 23 mins long because it contained dash cam front-view and rear-view recordings one after the other. With new editing software I have overlayed the rear-view recording into the corner of the front-view recording and they are in sync so you can see what is going on at both angle at the same time which I think is REALLY neat. The cost of recording both front and rear is that the recordings are at 30FPS. Front is 1080p @ 30FPS and rear is 720p @ 30FPS. If I turn the rear recording off it can record from the front in 1080p @ 60FPS. I'm not sure how exactly I'm going to approach the recording for 2020 track season with a possible 3 angles to choose form now with the GoPro in-car angle. I would love to have all 3 angles but if the dash cam is limited to 30FPS while the GoPro is recording at 60FPS it may look a little wonky. I'm also not sure which of the angles I want to be the main view (underlay) that the other smaller views (overlay/s) are on. Either the in-car view or the dash cam front view as the main view (underlay), but haven't decided. Anyway, fun stuff coming this year. Stay tuned!

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx_U17KwiqU






      Last edited by Thy_Harrowing; 01-15-2020 at 11:41 PM.
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    10. Member 20vturbslo's Avatar
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      02-14-2020 11:06 AM #34
      Thoroughly enjoy reading your commentary on your process. Keep up the good work
      Not enough time in the day.

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      02-14-2020 03:14 PM #35
      As always...enjoying the read.
      K04 PLAY...`07 GTI/GIAC K04 & DSG Tunes/AWE DV/AUTOTECH HPFP/TORQBYTE PM3/TTRS LPFP/S3 INJ's&fmic/RS4 fprv/FORGE fmTc, WGA & T-B HOSE/TECH.TUNING TB/BSH Eng.&Trans MOUNT's/NSP BOOST GAGE/AP Lite-PULLEY/NEUS. P-FLO&BOOST PIPES/13.2"BBK/BILSTEIN B8 DAMPERS/W.A.L.K./H&R SS SPRINGS+F&R ARB's/TSW 8X18 NURB's...ZOOM DIS! 2007 Volkswagen GTI : 12.823 @ 112.050 MPH

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