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    Thread: All-New 2020 Lincoln Aviator Takes Flight with Advanced Technologies, Grand Touring Performance Option

    1. Member ice4life's Avatar
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      11-29-2018 05:39 PM #101
      Quote Originally Posted by TangoRed View Post
      The Aviator comes standard with a TT V6, so not sure that applies here. The Audi Q7 is no different except you can get a turbo 4 in addition to a forced induction 6 cylinder. Also the XT6 has been in development for over 4 years at this point, the move back to Detroit isn't going to change anything. That ship has sailed and Cadillac made the platform choice they did because they don't have a recent RWD platform that can handle SUVs. We'll see what they've come up with soon.
      I think you misunderstood my garrulous rant- I am saying that is a bit different to have a twin turbo 6 standard in a class where that is usually the upgrade. My point was that you usually have to step way up (ie X7 GLS) for a standard engine of that caliber. Even the XC90 and Q7 come standard with turbo 4s.

      V6 Standard
      Acura MDX
      Infiniti QX60
      Lexus RX-L
      Buick Enclave
      Chevy Traverse (turbo 4 avail)
      Dodge Durango (V8 avail)
      Ford Explorer (turbo 4 and tt6 avail)
      GMC Acadia (technically 4 cyl standard but normally only in rental guise)
      Toyota Highlander
      Nissan Pathfinder
      Kia Telluride
      Honda Pilot
      Hyundai Palisade

      Turbo 4 standard
      Audi Q7 (s/c 6 avail)
      Mazda CX9
      Subaru Ascent
      VW Atlas (V6 avail)
      Volvo XC90 (twin charged 4 avail)

      TT 6 standard
      Lincoln Aviator
      Land Rover Discovery
      Mercedes GLS
      BMW X7



      Will be interesting to see if cadillac misses the mark again by making the 3.6 V6 the standard powerplant in the XT6 instead of making their 3.0tt 6 the standard powerplant.
      Last edited by ice4life; 11-29-2018 at 05:44 PM.
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    3. Member TangoRed's Avatar
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      11-29-2018 05:47 PM #102
      Quote Originally Posted by ice4life View Post
      I think you misunderstood my garrulous rant- I am saying that is a bit different to have a twin turbo 6 standard in a class where that is usually the upgrade. My point was that you usually have to step way up (ie X7 GLS) for a standard engine of that caliber. Even the XC90 and Q7 come standard with turbo 4s.

      V6 Standard
      Acura MDX
      Infiniti QX60
      Lexus RX-L
      Buick Enclave
      Chevy Traverse (turbo 4 avail)
      Dodge Durango (V8 avail)
      Ford Explorer (turbo 4 and tt6 avail)
      GMC Acadia (technically 4 cyl standard but normally only in rental guise)
      Toyota Highlander
      Nissan Pathfinder
      Kia Telluride
      Honda Pilot
      Hyundai Palisade

      Turbo 4 standard
      Audi Q7 (s/c 6 avail)
      Mazda CX9
      Subaru Ascent
      VW Atlas (V6 avail)
      Volvo XC90 (twin charged 4 avail)

      TT 6 standard
      Lincoln Aviator
      Land Rover Discovery
      Mercedes GLS
      BMW X7



      Will be interesting to see if cadillac misses the mark again by making the 3.6 V6 the standard powerplant in the XT6 instead of making their 3.0tt 6 the standard powerplant.
      Definitely misunderstood.
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    4. Senior Member bzcat's Avatar
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      11-29-2018 06:14 PM #103
      I think with Lincoln making the turbo V6 standard, they are basically forgoing the lower end of the market where one may have a turbo I4 as standard. But Lincoln has Nautilus for that market.


      The current Ford Explorer is 198" long. If you assume Aviator is couple of inches longer as cars tend to grow when they are redesigned, you can see how Aviator could end up being about 200~201" long. That would mean it is roughly the same size as Q7, X7, and GLS.

      Model - Length
      Q7 200" // Q8 195"
      X7 203" // X5 194"
      GLS 202" // GLE 194"
      Aviator ?? // Nautilus 191"

      So other than Q7 which has base 2.0T for some reason (although in reality, most buyers go straight to the 3.0T), Lincoln's approach with Aviator is not really that different than BMW or Mercedes, which has turbo V6 or I6 as the base engine in their 7 seat mid-large SUV.

      If anything, I think this foreshadows the next gen Edge and Nautilus being larger to keep up with Q8/X5/GLE which are all new for 2019.
      Last edited by bzcat; 11-29-2018 at 06:20 PM.

    5. Member ice4life's Avatar
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      11-29-2018 06:20 PM #104
      Quote Originally Posted by bzcat View Post
      I think with Lincoln making the turbo V6 standard, they are basically forgoing the lower end of the market where one may have a turbo I4 as standard. But Lincoln has Nautilus for that market.


      The current Ford Explorer is 198" long. If you assume Aviator is couple of inches longer as cars tend to grow when they are redesigned, you can see how Aviator could end up being about 200~201" long. That would mean it is roughly the same size as Q7, X7, and GLS.

      Model - Length
      Q7 200" // Q8 195"
      X7 203" // X5 194"
      GLS 202" // GLE 194"
      Aviator ?? // Nautilus 191"

      So other than Q7 which has base 2.0T for some reason, Lincoln's approach with Aviator is not really that different than BMW or Mercedes, which has turbo V6 or I6 as the base engine in their 7 seat mid-large SUV.

      If anything, I think this foreshadows the next gen Edge and Nautilus being larger to keep up with Q8/X5/GLE which are all new for 2019.
      True- so this reiterates what I have been trying to say for a few pages- Lincoln has positioned this car very different than the rest of the market, and I think it is bringing them into a new market standing imo. People say "oh its like a tailered suit and not trying to be anything special" but to me this car actually is special in so many ways- from the symphonic chimes to the voice control button on the steering wheel rim at 10 o clock. They thought about so many details that the higher level demographic thinks about. And they have a winner which deserves to shake up the 3 row suv market as we know it.
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    6. Senior Member bzcat's Avatar
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      11-29-2018 06:27 PM #105
      Another thing to consider... Aviator will be the only 7 seat turbo V6 PHEV on the market. I think Lincoln is position it as an alternative to V8... the 600 lb-ft number was splashed across the big screen in bold letters. They are not selling it as some eco-friendly option like the X5 40e or GLE350e which have turbo I4 PHEV.

      Ford could have easily put the 5.0 V8 in Aviator since the platform is also going to be used for Mustang, the V8 was baked in the design. But they've chosen to go the PHEV route.

      So just a long winded way of me saying I think Lincoln is really pitching the Aviator at the "mid large" 7 seater like X7/GLS (which have V8 option) and not the smaller true mid size 7 seat competitors like XC90, MDX, RRS etc.

    7. Senior Member Jettavr666's Avatar
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      11-29-2018 06:53 PM #106
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Lincoln knocked it out of the park with this

      I can't think of another vehicle in this segment I'd rather have
      Lincoln design does SUVS very well.

      With that said its a bit overly range rover, but when you are doing a two box design its difficult to be too different.

    8. Member ice4life's Avatar
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      11-30-2018 11:13 AM #107
      Quote Originally Posted by bzcat View Post
      Another thing to consider... Aviator will be the only 7 seat turbo V6 PHEV on the market. I think Lincoln is position it as an alternative to V8... the 600 lb-ft number was splashed across the big screen in bold letters. They are not selling it as some eco-friendly option like the X5 40e or GLE350e which have turbo I4 PHEV.

      Ford could have easily put the 5.0 V8 in Aviator since the platform is also going to be used for Mustang, the V8 was baked in the design. But they've chosen to go the PHEV route.

      So just a long winded way of me saying I think Lincoln is really pitching the Aviator at the "mid large" 7 seater like X7/GLS (which have V8 option) and not the smaller true mid size 7 seat competitors like XC90, MDX, RRS etc.
      Very interesting point- Up until the Aviator, the only 3 row PHEV SUV on the market is the XC90 T8- and that one isn't 6 cylinders.
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    9. Member Yuppie Scum's Avatar
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      12-01-2018 11:26 AM #108
      The PHEV really intrigued me, but will probably be cost prohibitive.

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      12-01-2018 11:44 AM #109
      Quote Originally Posted by ice4life View Post
      True- so this reiterates what I have been trying to say for a few pages- Lincoln has positioned this car very different than the rest of the market, and I think it is bringing them into a new market standing imo. People say "oh its like a tailered suit and not trying to be anything special" but to me this car actually is special in so many ways- from the symphonic chimes to the voice control button on the steering wheel rim at 10 o clock. They thought about so many details that the higher level demographic thinks about. And they have a winner which deserves to shake up the 3 row suv market as we know it.
      I think this is a job well done by Lincoln, but how do you see it shaking things up? It seems more to me like a well executed opening shot from the old American luxury playbook of delivering the same goods at a discount. It's basically a GLS/X7/XC90 fighter at what I imagine will be a 10-15% price cut, albeit without the sense of cheapness domestic luxury cars generally seem to exude. While this would be my pick of the segment, I don't know that I see it moving the needle for the Europeans. At most BMW/MB may make more of an effort to make their next gen big CUVs look halfway decent... but people are gonna keep buying the ancient GLS and hideous X7, because badge. I don't think I'd call this an '89 LS400 moment.

    11. Geriatric Member spockcat's Avatar
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      12-01-2018 12:10 PM #110
      Quote Originally Posted by Yuppie Scum View Post
      The PHEV really intrigued me, but will probably be cost prohibitive.
      Question is what is the range of this as a PHEV? Is this a short range, around town, ~30 mile EV and uses gas most of the time while driving at speed or a commuter range ~100 miles and gas as backup?

      Otherwise it looks nice. Not a vehicle I would buy as I don't need anything that large. But nice for those who do need this size vehicle.

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      12-01-2018 12:42 PM #111
      Quote Originally Posted by spockcat View Post
      Question is what is the range of this as a PHEV? Is this a short range, around town, ~30 mile EV and uses gas most of the time while driving at speed or a commuter range ~100 miles and gas as backup?

      Otherwise it looks nice. Not a vehicle I would buy as I don't need anything that large. But nice for those who do need this size vehicle.
      I doubt it's going to have a tremendous electric-only range:

      Quote Originally Posted by Car and Driver
      Lincoln isn't yet saying how far the Aviator Grand Touring will be able to travel in EV mode, but the chief engineer did acknowledge that the hybrid system is geared more toward enhancing performance than toward providing emissions-free motoring; and even drivers who don't regularly plug in will get the performance benefits.

    13. Senior Member bzcat's Avatar
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      12-03-2018 02:38 PM #112
      Quote Originally Posted by J.Yossarian View Post
      I doubt it's going to have a tremendous electric-only range:
      Ford said the estimated EV range is 50 km (roughly 31 miles), which is par for the course for PHEV now days.

      The battery pack is fairly large for a hybrid but obviously not full EV size.


    14. Member chois's Avatar
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      12-03-2018 02:53 PM #113
      Quote Originally Posted by spockcat View Post
      Question is what is the range of this as a PHEV? Is this a short range, around town, ~30 mile EV and uses gas most of the time while driving at speed or a commuter range ~100 miles and gas as backup?

      Otherwise it looks nice. Not a vehicle I would buy as I don't need anything that large. But nice for those who do need this size vehicle.
      Actually - a 30 mile range would be an average use. I'm not sure there is as much benefit in that additional range as people think (beyond marketing hype).

      As a PHEV it seems clearly positioned as a performance vehicle, not as a range extended EV Hybrid.
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    15. Senior Member bzcat's Avatar
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      12-03-2018 03:02 PM #114
      Quote Originally Posted by chois View Post
      Actually - a 30 mile range would be an average use. I'm not sure there is as much benefit in that additional range as people think (beyond marketing hype).

      As a PHEV it seems clearly positioned as a performance vehicle, not as a range extended EV Hybrid.
      Agree on both counts.

      30 miles EV range is plenty for PHEV. And Ford is probably positioning Aviator PHEV as an alternative to competitor's V8 options - X7 50i and GLS550.

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      12-03-2018 03:04 PM #115
      Quote Originally Posted by chois View Post
      Actually - a 30 mile range would be an average use. I'm not sure there is as much benefit in that additional range as people think (beyond marketing hype).

      As a PHEV it seems clearly positioned as a performance vehicle, not as a range extended EV Hybrid.
      But it'll get you an HOV lane sticker, so that alone makes it desirable for some buyers. Plus the fact that they can claim that no storage space was compromised as a result of adding in the battery pack is a nice selling point.

      All around, I think Ford/Lincoln did a great job. I only hope it drives and rides to the expectations we have now set.

    17. Geriatric Member spockcat's Avatar
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      12-03-2018 03:21 PM #116
      Quote Originally Posted by chois View Post
      Actually - a 30 mile range would be an average use. I'm not sure there is as much benefit in that additional range as people think (beyond marketing hype).

      As a PHEV it seems clearly positioned as a performance vehicle, not as a range extended EV Hybrid.
      Just back and forth to one of the places I work evenings is 80 miles round trip (40 miles each way). No charging available while at the work location. So using a vehicle with just a 30 mile electric range would be mostly gas.

      I wouldn't even want a BEV with just a 100 mile range as that leaves too little safety margin, especially if there is future battery degradation.

      So maybe 30 miles would work for some people but it wouldn't make a good commuter in my case.

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      12-03-2018 03:28 PM #117
      Quote Originally Posted by spockcat View Post
      Just back and forth to one of the places I work evenings is 80 miles round trip (40 miles each way). No charging available while at the work location. So using a vehicle with just a 30 mile electric range would be mostly gas.

      I wouldn't even want a BEV with just a 100 mile range as that leaves too little safety margin, especially if there is future battery degradation.

      So maybe 30 miles would work for some people but it wouldn't make a good commuter in my case.
      I was watching Engineering Explained's review of the new Nissan Leaf Hybrid, and IIRC 90 something percent of people commute less than 10 miles each way. So while it definitely doesn't work in your case, it would for the vast majority of American consumers. I would LOVE a 30 mile EV range, and it would be supremely useful, especially when paired with a TTV6 ready to snort to life at any moment!

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      12-03-2018 03:57 PM #118
      Quote Originally Posted by WALS1 View Post
      I was watching Engineering Explained's review of the new Nissan Leaf Hybrid, and IIRC 90 something percent of people commute less than 10 miles each way. So while it definitely doesn't work in your case, it would for the vast majority of American consumers. I would LOVE a 30 mile EV range, and it would be supremely useful, especially when paired with a TTV6 ready to snort to life at any moment!
      I agree. With a 30 mile range, I would probably have to fill up my gas tank only a few times per year

    20. Senior Member Mazda 3s's Avatar
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      12-03-2018 04:26 PM #119
      Quote Originally Posted by WALS1 View Post
      I was watching Engineering Explained's review of the new Nissan Leaf Hybrid, and IIRC 90 something percent of people commute less than 10 miles each way. So while it definitely doesn't work in your case, it would for the vast majority of American consumers. I would LOVE a 30 mile EV range, and it would be supremely useful, especially when paired with a TTV6 ready to snort to life at any moment!
      Something with a 30 mile EV range would definitely work for my wife. Her commute is roughly 9 miles to work, and 9 miles back home. Charging at night, she'd never have to really worry about gas.
      "Of course that's just my opinion; I could be wrong."

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    21. Member chois's Avatar
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      12-03-2018 05:35 PM #120
      Quote Originally Posted by spockcat View Post
      Just back and forth to one of the places I work evenings is 80 miles round trip (40 miles each way). No charging available while at the work location. So using a vehicle with just a 30 mile electric range would be mostly gas.

      I wouldn't even want a BEV with just a 100 mile range as that leaves too little safety margin, especially if there is future battery degradation.

      So maybe 30 miles would work for some people but it wouldn't make a good commuter in my case.
      I agree.
      If you want to commute on electricity, and have an 80 mile commute (just like me...) this is not the right car for you.
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      01-22-2019 09:15 PM #121
      Pricing is out and I think it's a hell of a deal for the base mode with a base price of $52,195.

      https://www.autoblog.com/2019/01/22/...-configurator/
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    23. 01-22-2019 11:20 PM #122
      I know right, XT5 Starts at 41,695, imagine what the Xt6 will start at?

    24. Junior Member swedesc's Avatar
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      01-22-2019 11:50 PM #123
      Quote Originally Posted by Tomaz View Post
      I know right, XT5 Starts at 41,695, imagine what the Xt6 will start at?
      Probably 50k

    25. Member Mike!'s Avatar
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      01-23-2019 10:20 AM #124
      $52k "base" with the 400hp/400lbft 3.0t? Daaamn. This is a good deal. Hopefully this portends a well-priced Explorer too.

    26. Member rich!'s Avatar
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      01-23-2019 10:43 AM #125
      at least optioned up way cheaper than new cayenne ehybrid (+looks way better, more torqueeesss)

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