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    Thread: The 2020 Toyota Supra Is Finally Here With 335 HP, Does Zero to 60 in 4.1 Seconds

    1. Senior Member AZGolf's Avatar
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      01-15-2019 06:35 PM #251
      Quote Originally Posted by Rakshas View Post
      Full rebuild at 80k? I’ve seen a lot of ridiculous stuff on the internet but that’s a kneeslapper. One of my S54’s is at 170k miles without major rebuild and the other went to 70k without any signs of issues.

      They need cooling systems updated and the turbo cars had some early teething issue, but this myth that BMW can’t build a strong engine is insane.
      For your edification:

      https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...s-Of-****-quot

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    3. 01-15-2019 06:35 PM #252
      https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-sho...ring-lap-time/

      Tetsuya Tada says the automaker has not done a timed lap at the 'Ring, but speculates his car could handily beat the Z4's lap time.

      Nurburgring lap times have become a crucial data point for high-performance vehicles. Automakers have claimed 'Ring lap records for everything from hybrid hypercars to front-drive hatchbacks and even SUVs.

      So it's a little bit surprising that Toyota hasn't publicized an official Nurburgring lap time for the 2020 Supra. But at the 2019 North American International Auto Show in Detroit, Supra chief engineer Tetsuya Tada hinted at what he believes the new sports car will be capable of achieving at the 'Ring.

      "We haven't had an official time attack yet," Tada told R&T through an interpreter. The engineering boss explained that the car would likely run into its 155-mph speed limiter on the Nurburgring's lengthy straightaway, hampering its lap time. "One day, perhaps, we cut the speed limiter and try the time attack," he said. "But even just driving it as it is, it's really fast. On the old course, it's very easy to break eights—7:50, 7:40. It will do that easily."

      Compare that to the new BMW Z4, which was developed alongside the new Supra. The two cars share a platform, and their suspension and braking components are nearly identical. They offer the same 3.0-liter turbo straight-six engine and eight-speed automatic transmission, though the top-spec Z4 M40i makes 382 horsepower and 369 lb-ft, compared to the Supra's 335 horsepower and 365 lb-ft.

      Tada says the hardtop-only Supra is lighter and more rigid than the soft-top BMW, which could explain how the Supra out-accelerates the Z4 (a 4.1-second 0-60 sprint, compared to 4.4 for the BMW). And while BMW has not claimed an official Nurburgring lap time for the Z4, German publication Sport Auto ran a 7:55 in a preproduction Z4 M40i.

      Of course, there's only one way to find out what the Supra can do at the Nurburgring. Consider this our plea: Toyota, take it to the 'Ring for an official timed lap.

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      01-15-2019 06:38 PM #253
      Lol. It's literally just an M240i
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    5. 01-15-2019 06:40 PM #254
      Quote Originally Posted by AZGolf View Post
      I’ve read the Jalopnik article, and it’s primarily overblown clickbait. The S85 yes is a truly unreliable motor with huge parts bills, and the N63 early engines were garbage. But beyond that, they build robust and reliable engines and each of those supposed catastrophes is hugely overplayed.

      Don’t get me wrong, BMW have their fault. My subframe may as well be made of Swiss cheese, but the engines are good. But what do I know, I’ve only owned multiple and I don’t write for the internet’s second worst auto Journalist (first going to TTAC).

      Unless of course you and I have very different definitions of full rebuild.

    6. How do I resize a picture? Cabin Pics's Avatar
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      01-15-2019 06:42 PM #255
      So you're saying I'm 11,000 miles past the rebuild point on my M54?

      I better get that looked at.
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      Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
      maybe its just me, but i wouldnt put anything in the circle of "unrealistic" when it comes to sex.


    7. 01-15-2019 06:46 PM #257
      Quote Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast View Post
      Lol. It's literally just an M240i
      This post here pretty much sums up everything.

    8. Member Jimmy Russells's Avatar
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      01-15-2019 06:51 PM #258
      Quote Originally Posted by MonsterM View Post
      well played

    9. I had to ask.... Turbo II's Avatar
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      01-15-2019 06:54 PM #259

    10. How do I resize a picture? Cabin Pics's Avatar
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      01-15-2019 06:55 PM #260
      Quote Originally Posted by MonsterM View Post
      Instagram - efrie004

      Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
      maybe its just me, but i wouldnt put anything in the circle of "unrealistic" when it comes to sex.

    11. Planters (fasciitis) peanuts. Dang dogg Sold Over Sticker's Avatar
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      01-15-2019 06:59 PM #261
      Quote Originally Posted by Cabin Pics View Post
      So you're saying I'm 11,000 miles past the rebuild point on my M54?

      I better get that looked at.
      BMW's M series of engines are usually stone cold reliable, except for cooling systems, and timing chains in the V8's, and VANOS units depending on the year. The S series engines? Each one tells its own story.
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      01-15-2019 07:43 PM #262
      Quote Originally Posted by Ark6 View Post
      It's an overblown myth from the N54 days, and the general idea that BMW can't make durable stuff.
      And who knows, for all we know the S58 could have a Yamaha developed head and Toyota input of some sort lol.
      Naw, BMW engines have problems. Every engine after the N52/53 had some kind of major issue. Carbon build up on everything DI. I think they still have problems with VANOS and basic cooling ****. S65/85 rod bearings and throttle actuators. N54 HPFPs. N20 timing chain (lawsuit pending). N63 everything lol. Someone here made it to 170K w/no problems (supposedly). Congrats! A worrying number of people aren't so lucky.

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      01-15-2019 07:52 PM #263
      I think our very own Ryukein just made his YouTube debut with this Supra video:


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      01-15-2019 07:56 PM #264
      Quote Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast View Post
      Lol. It's literally just an M240i
      I'm not quite sure you understand the words you used.

    15. Member Ark6's Avatar
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      01-15-2019 08:15 PM #265
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Naw, BMW engines have problems. Every engine after the N52/53 had some kind of major issue. Carbon build up on everything DI. I think they still have problems with VANOS and basic cooling ****. S65/85 rod bearings and throttle actuators. N54 HPFPs. N20 timing chain (lawsuit pending). N63 everything lol. Someone here made it to 170K w/no problems (supposedly). Congrats! A worrying number of people aren't so lucky.
      To be fair a lot of OEMs have the carbon buildup issue on DI engines, not just BMW. VW has it on the 2.0T. Toyota doesn't have this issue but then again they use 2 injectors per cylinder. But yeah, I wouldn't chance a high mileage BMW.

    16. 01-15-2019 08:23 PM #266
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Naw, BMW engines have problems. Every engine after the N52/53 had some kind of major issue. Carbon build up on everything DI. I think they still have problems with VANOS and basic cooling ****. S65/85 rod bearings and throttle actuators. N54 HPFPs. N20 timing chain (lawsuit pending). N63 everything lol. Someone here made it to 170K w/no problems (supposedly). Congrats! A worrying number of people aren't so lucky.
      You really like pulling things out of your ass and presenting them as fact. You have just as much conviction here as trying to say the Aviator and XT6 aren’t competitors.

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      01-15-2019 08:30 PM #267
      Quote Originally Posted by Ark6 View Post
      To be fair a lot of OEMs have the carbon buildup issue on DI engines, not just BMW. VW has it on the 2.0T. Toyota doesn't have this issue but then again they use 2 injectors per cylinder. But yeah, I wouldn't chance a high mileage BMW.
      For sure, but it's a problem they have. Port injectors are cheap... it's a stupid omission in such high end cars.

      Quote Originally Posted by Rakshas View Post
      You really like pulling things out of your ass and presenting them as fact. You have just as much conviction here as trying to say the Aviator and XT6 aren’t competitors.
      If you're scared, say you're scared, fanboy. Getting mouthy with me won't make your BMW any more reliable.

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      01-15-2019 08:36 PM #268
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      If you're scared, say you're scared, fanboy. Getting mouthy with me won't make your BMW any more reliable.
      And no amount of snark will make an Optima fun to own.

    19. Member
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      01-15-2019 08:40 PM #269
      Quote Originally Posted by Sonderwunsch View Post
      And no amount of snark will make an Optima fun to own.
      OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO BUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

      Because I've proclaimed my Optima to be a paragon of driving enjoyment right? Lol @ this fanboy white knighting.

    20. 01-15-2019 08:43 PM #270
      Hoo-wee! We gotta fire up in here. That means you did good Toyota, you did good.

    21. 01-15-2019 08:54 PM #271
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      For sure, but it's a problem they have. Port injectors are cheap... it's a stupid omission in such high end cars.



      If you're scared, say you're scared, fanboy. Getting mouthy with me won't make your BMW any more reliable.
      Scared of what exactly? I'm just stating an observation. You run your mouth on topics with unwavering confidence without any kind of substantiating thought or citation, and then when someone presents actual numbers, you either ignore them or continue to spout your same line without any new points. Case in point in this thread, you kept saying this car didn't bring the performance of random competitors based on what I can only assume is horsepower numbers. But when presented with the only data we have (0-60) showing the car is right in line with everything you presented, you abruptly drop the subject and move on to some other hairbrained gripe. It's amusing, not scary pal.

      I currently have an E46 M3 and an E23 735i. I've had two other E46's, an E30, an E36, and an E38. All of them were good at somethings, bad at others, but i've never once found the engine to be the weak point. Closest we got was the M42 in the E30 318is blowing its profile gasket and timing system, but even that made it to 230k miles before it did.

      Modern BMW's are by and large, too insulated, poorly specced, and not in line with what I want from a car, the M3 and M2C being the exceptions. But they're not bad cars and the engines certainly aren't as unreliable as they're made out to be. Yes the early N54's had HPFP issues but those were largely recalled and rectified. Yes the S85 is unreliable and high maintenance and the N63 pre TU is a poor design, but overall the rest of what they make is still pretty good. Nothing is any more annoying than the carbon buildup in my FSI or the headbolts and cam actuators on my M156.

      Now, go ahead and ignore every actual experience that anyone has had with the cars, continue to spout baseless forum hearsay as though it was gospel, and make yourself look like more of a fool. We're all here to watch the show.

    22. Member
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      01-15-2019 08:59 PM #272
      BMW makes great cars, but the engines are problematic.

    23. Member
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      01-15-2019 09:09 PM #273
      Quote Originally Posted by Rakshas View Post
      Scared of what exactly? I'm just stating an observation. You run your mouth on topics with unwavering confidence without any kind of substantiating thought or citation, and then when someone presents actual numbers, you either ignore them or continue to spout your same line without any new points. Case in point in this thread, you kept saying this car didn't bring the performance of random competitors based on what I can only assume is horsepower numbers. But when presented with the only data we have (0-60) showing the car is right in line with everything you presented, you abruptly drop the subject and move on to some other hairbrained gripe. It's amusing, not scary pal.

      I currently have an E46 M3 and an E23 735i. I've had two other E46's, an E30, an E36, and an E38. All of them were good at somethings, bad at others, but i've never once found the engine to be the weak point. Closest we got was the M42 in the E30 318is blowing its profile gasket and timing system, but even that made it to 230k miles before it did.

      Modern BMW's are by and large, too insulated, poorly specced, and not in line with what I want from a car, the M3 and M2C being the exceptions. But they're not bad cars and the engines certainly aren't as unreliable as they're made out to be. Yes the early N54's had HPFP issues but those were largely recalled and rectified. Yes the S85 is unreliable and high maintenance and the N63 pre TU is a poor design, but overall the rest of what they make is still pretty good. Nothing is any more annoying than the carbon buildup in my FSI or the headbolts and cam actuators on my M156.

      Now, go ahead and ignore every actual experience that anyone has had with the cars, continue to spout baseless forum hearsay as though it was gospel, and make yourself look like more of a fool. We're all here to watch the show.
      Individual anecdotes don't mean much. My Kia has been great. That doesn't change the fact that there's a huge engine recall out on them. No different with your BMW experience.

      And your BMWs aren't even relevant. We're talking about modern BMWs and you spout off statistically irrelevant novels about your 30 year old E32 on the very type of internet forum you dismissed But yes E36s and E46s had engine issues too. Again just because my Kia hasn't blown up doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist.... I know it's hard to stomach but the same rules apply to the brand you identify with.
      Last edited by CTK; 01-15-2019 at 09:14 PM.

    24. Member Egz's Avatar
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      01-15-2019 09:17 PM #274


      Okay, 2010 is a stretch, since the FT-HS concept showed up in 2007.

    25. 01-15-2019 09:19 PM #275
      https://www.motor1.com/news/301249/t...r-cylinder-us/

      If you want less displacement, buy a Z4.

      The 2020 Toyota Supra stole the auto show this year in Detroit. The long-awaited coupe gets a turbocharged 3.0-liter engine in the U.S., good for 335 horsepower (249 kilowatts) and 365 pound-feet (494 Newton-meters) of torque. In Japan, the base Supra comes with a four-cylinder engine – but don't expect it to carry over here.

      Speaking with Jack Hollis, Toyota's group vice president and general manager, at the Detroit Auto Show, he said the company has no plans to bring the four-cylinder Supra stateside. Toyota believes the current inline-six is the best engine for this car.

      "I think it will be interesting to see, with the Z4 coming out with the 2.0-liter – and it's kind of interesting we have our inline six that's the same price as their two-liter – we'll see how that all works out. But no, we don't have a plan to bring the four-cylinder here."

      The base four-cylinder Supra is good for either 194 hp (145 kW) and 236 lb-ft (320 Nm), or 255 hp (190 kW) and 295 lb-ft (400 Nm) of torque, depending on the trim. For countries like Japan with strict tax laws on larger-displacement engines, it makes sense. But in the U.S., with the 86 and no restrictions on larger-displacement engines, Toyota doesn't see a business case for it.

      "The good news is having a company that has that available, we could do so. But we made the choice with Tada Son to only bring [the Supra] out with the inline six – so we feel strongly that that's the right engine and right performance for us."

      There is one way you can get that platform with a four-cylinder engine, though: Buy a BMW Z4. In the U.S., the base Z4 is powered by a 2.0-liter engine good for 255 hp (190 kW) and 295 lb-ft (400 Nm) of torque. The four-cylinder Z4 and the six-cylinder Supra start at around the same price – $49,700 for the Z4 versus $49,990 for the Supra.

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