Tetsuya Tada says the automaker has not done a timed lap at the 'Ring, but speculates his car could handily beat the Z4's lap time.
Nurburgring lap times have become a crucial data point for high-performance vehicles. Automakers have claimed 'Ring lap records for everything from hybrid hypercars to front-drive hatchbacks and even SUVs.
So it's a little bit surprising that Toyota hasn't publicized an official Nurburgring lap time for the 2020 Supra. But at the 2019 North American International Auto Show in Detroit, Supra chief engineer Tetsuya Tada hinted at what he believes the new sports car will be capable of achieving at the 'Ring.
"We haven't had an official time attack yet," Tada told R&T through an interpreter. The engineering boss explained that the car would likely run into its 155-mph speed limiter on the Nurburgring's lengthy straightaway, hampering its lap time. "One day, perhaps, we cut the speed limiter and try the time attack," he said. "But even just driving it as it is, it's really fast. On the old course, it's very easy to break eights—7:50, 7:40. It will do that easily."
Compare that to the new BMW Z4, which was developed alongside the new Supra. The two cars share a platform, and their suspension and braking components are nearly identical. They offer the same 3.0-liter turbo straight-six engine and eight-speed automatic transmission, though the top-spec Z4 M40i makes 382 horsepower and 369 lb-ft, compared to the Supra's 335 horsepower and 365 lb-ft.
Tada says the hardtop-only Supra is lighter and more rigid than the soft-top BMW, which could explain how the Supra out-accelerates the Z4 (a 4.1-second 0-60 sprint, compared to 4.4 for the BMW). And while BMW has not claimed an official Nurburgring lap time for the Z4, German publication Sport Auto ran a 7:55 in a preproduction Z4 M40i.
Of course, there's only one way to find out what the Supra can do at the Nurburgring. Consider this our plea: Toyota, take it to the 'Ring for an official timed lap.
Don’t get me wrong, BMW have their fault. My subframe may as well be made of Swiss cheese, but the engines are good. But what do I know, I’ve only owned multiple and I don’t write for the internet’s second worst auto Journalist (first going to TTAC).
Unless of course you and I have very different definitions of full rebuild.
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Originally Posted by Phillie Phanatic
I currently have an E46 M3 and an E23 735i. I've had two other E46's, an E30, an E36, and an E38. All of them were good at somethings, bad at others, but i've never once found the engine to be the weak point. Closest we got was the M42 in the E30 318is blowing its profile gasket and timing system, but even that made it to 230k miles before it did.
Modern BMW's are by and large, too insulated, poorly specced, and not in line with what I want from a car, the M3 and M2C being the exceptions. But they're not bad cars and the engines certainly aren't as unreliable as they're made out to be. Yes the early N54's had HPFP issues but those were largely recalled and rectified. Yes the S85 is unreliable and high maintenance and the N63 pre TU is a poor design, but overall the rest of what they make is still pretty good. Nothing is any more annoying than the carbon buildup in my FSI or the headbolts and cam actuators on my M156.
Now, go ahead and ignore every actual experience that anyone has had with the cars, continue to spout baseless forum hearsay as though it was gospel, and make yourself look like more of a fool. We're all here to watch the show.
And your BMWs aren't even relevant. We're talking about modern BMWs and you spout off statistically irrelevant novels about your 30 year old E32 on the very type of internet forum you dismissed But yes E36s and E46s had engine issues too. Again just because my Kia hasn't blown up doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist.... I know it's hard to stomach but the same rules apply to the brand you identify with.
Last edited by CTK; 01-15-2019 at 09:14 PM.
If you want less displacement, buy a Z4.
The 2020 Toyota Supra stole the auto show this year in Detroit. The long-awaited coupe gets a turbocharged 3.0-liter engine in the U.S., good for 335 horsepower (249 kilowatts) and 365 pound-feet (494 Newton-meters) of torque. In Japan, the base Supra comes with a four-cylinder engine – but don't expect it to carry over here.
Speaking with Jack Hollis, Toyota's group vice president and general manager, at the Detroit Auto Show, he said the company has no plans to bring the four-cylinder Supra stateside. Toyota believes the current inline-six is the best engine for this car.
"I think it will be interesting to see, with the Z4 coming out with the 2.0-liter – and it's kind of interesting we have our inline six that's the same price as their two-liter – we'll see how that all works out. But no, we don't have a plan to bring the four-cylinder here."
The base four-cylinder Supra is good for either 194 hp (145 kW) and 236 lb-ft (320 Nm), or 255 hp (190 kW) and 295 lb-ft (400 Nm) of torque, depending on the trim. For countries like Japan with strict tax laws on larger-displacement engines, it makes sense. But in the U.S., with the 86 and no restrictions on larger-displacement engines, Toyota doesn't see a business case for it.
"The good news is having a company that has that available, we could do so. But we made the choice with Tada Son to only bring [the Supra] out with the inline six – so we feel strongly that that's the right engine and right performance for us."
There is one way you can get that platform with a four-cylinder engine, though: Buy a BMW Z4. In the U.S., the base Z4 is powered by a 2.0-liter engine good for 255 hp (190 kW) and 295 lb-ft (400 Nm) of torque. The four-cylinder Z4 and the six-cylinder Supra start at around the same price – $49,700 for the Z4 versus $49,990 for the Supra.