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    Thread: Scion FR-S and Subaru BRZ Owners Say Engines are Catastrophically Failing After a Recall Fix

    1. Moderator rs4-380's Avatar
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      03-13-2019 09:00 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by BRealistic View Post
      What?
      Why they would paint valve springs or how it would kill an engine?
      Dave

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    3. Geriatric Member BRealistic's Avatar
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      03-13-2019 09:45 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by rs4-380 View Post
      Why they would paint valve springs or how it would kill an engine?
      A combo of both.
      If you "need" to paint the springs, job #1 should be to make damn sure the paint doesn't come off as it will go straight in the engine oil.

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      03-13-2019 11:34 PM #28
      Does this particular recall only apply for US BRZ/86 twin? So 86 in Euro/Asia don't have this problem??
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      03-13-2019 11:39 PM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by BonusParts View Post
      "NOTE: I went to a SUBARU dealership for the recall.

      Vehicle Mileage: 75k
      Vehicle Make: Subaru BRZ
      Mileage After Recall Performed: 75.5k
      Symptom(s): Engine Knock, loss of power, car dies when throttle is not depressed
      Failure: Bent Rod
      State: Currently in Subaru dealership
      Is Dealership Offering Repair: After taking pictures, Subaru dealership mechanics were able to determine the paint on valve springs choked the engine and are replacing the short block.

      INTERESTING
      Tech be typing like a tech.

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      03-14-2019 12:08 AM #30
      This is fresh.
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      03-14-2019 04:09 AM #31
      All that exertion to pass uphill.

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      03-14-2019 07:19 AM #32
      crazy. Fortunately this is only through partway through 13, right?
      Typical forum guy with busted third-hand cars.
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      03-14-2019 07:34 AM #33
      idk about valve springs but often paint is used to identify spring strength.

      fwiw it's either great mechanic skills to find that as the root cause or a stretch
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    10. Member atomicalex's Avatar
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      03-14-2019 07:40 AM #34
      The oil galleys are pretty small.

      Worse is that they know the paint can cause the issue, then they don't beat the Toyota techs over cleanliness, so the FRS peeps are finding sealant in their oil passages after their engines fail after the recall.
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      03-14-2019 07:44 AM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by Spatzle View Post
      My sister's husband was or maybe still is a Toyota master tech with 25 years experience when he left last year. From what he told me Toyota puts the best techs on lower paid warranty work, and many are getting burnt out on it. So alot of experienced guys are leaving for diesel jobs like him, or independent shops.

      The book hours model that a good tech can really make in the money with. Is really cut back on warranty work to where there is no extra time. They instead have been giving the good jobs to new employees which makes the old timers mad. Maybe a local issue with the dealers he was willing to drive to for work.

      So probably not good if the better techs leave since they are stuck on lower paying warranty leaving less experienced techs. On the most experience needed jobs.
      The service manager picks who gets which jobs. At dealerships I worked at, a tech with 5 years experience that kept his mouth shut and didn't take 2 smoke breaks an hour will tend to get more "good work" than the 25 year vet that constantly bitches about everything and spreads negativity. Every shop has both types. Sometimes things are just about attitude and work environment, not "seniority".
      At the toyota store I was at the top earning tech barely spoke a word to anyone unless he was asked for help, which he always did without complaint. He didn't smoke and never showed up late. Guess who got most of the big "customer pay" jobs like engine and transmission replacements?
      Last edited by MAC; 03-14-2019 at 07:46 AM.
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      03-14-2019 08:14 AM #36
      Has anyone cut open an oil filter to see what’s in there? Chances are that if contaminated oil made it to bearings a least some of the debris made it into the filter media.
      Silicone/RTV is deadly in a motor but if they did something stupid like powder coated valve springs that would likely be enough to do it.
      Painting valve springs has been done at least as far back as the 60’s by GM...they typically would brush a faint stripe of yellow, purple, green to indicate spring strength. That was in a (relative to today) loose clearance engine—so in a modern tight-clearance engine with super lightweight oil....

    13. Moderator rs4-380's Avatar
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      03-14-2019 08:34 AM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by BRealistic View Post
      A combo of both.
      If you "need" to paint the springs, job #1 should be to make damn sure the paint doesn't come off as it will go straight in the engine oil.
      Funny thing, I've actually killed an Ej25 because of paint (on the oil pan though not the valve springs).
      Dave

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      03-14-2019 09:05 AM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by rs4-380 View Post
      Funny thing, I've actually killed an Ej25 because of paint (on the oil pan though not the valve springs).
      You sure that wasn't just because ej25?
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    15. Moderator rs4-380's Avatar
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      03-14-2019 09:09 AM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by 0dd_j0b View Post
      You sure that wasn't just because ej25?
      Definitely a contributing factor, but the paint flakes clogging up the oil pickup probably didn't help either
      Dave

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      03-14-2019 10:33 AM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by EPilot View Post
      Yea crazy stuff.

      One person posted this.



      Another recent post is this…
      Rod bearings as a semi-solid? I've only seen that on break-in when oil pressure didn't build after a bad oil pump prime. That's bad news, indeed.
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    17. Geriatric Member BRealistic's Avatar
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      03-15-2019 08:32 AM #41
      Those rod bearings look insane.
      That's "no oil whatsoever" cooked.. right?
      The one pair that was destroyed sent metal through the system which scored the others.
      So is this really a case of paint coming off the new springs, or some type of excessive assembly lube issue?
      I always thought assembly lube was purposely made to NOT clog the engine - as in it became very thin (and even evaporated off?) once heated up.
      Last edited by BRealistic; 03-15-2019 at 08:34 AM.

    18. Member Cr4shT3st's Avatar
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      03-15-2019 08:49 AM #42
      Not assembly lube, liquid gasket or RTV. Subaru loves using that ish. I remember it from my EJ257 rebuild. yeesh.
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      03-15-2019 09:05 AM #43
      Subaru is making the Mazda rotary look better.

    20. Geriatric Member BRealistic's Avatar
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      03-15-2019 09:10 AM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by Cr4shT3st View Post
      Not assembly lube, liquid gasket or RTV. Subaru loves using that ish. I remember it from my EJ257 rebuild. yeesh.
      Wait.. their factory installation is to use RTV instead of actual gaskets?

    21. Moderator rs4-380's Avatar
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      03-15-2019 09:31 AM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by BRealistic View Post
      Wait.. their factory installation is to use RTV instead of actual gaskets?
      it's not that uncommon anymore.
      Dave

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      03-15-2019 10:58 AM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by BRealistic View Post
      Wait.. their factory installation is to use RTV instead of actual gaskets?
      Off the top of my head, it's used to seal the block halves together, and to seal the oil pan to the motor. Everything else has a gasket.

    23. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      03-15-2019 11:07 AM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by rs4-380 View Post
      it's not that uncommon anymore.
      Yep. The stuff seems like it's everywhere.

      Quote Originally Posted by TequilaMockingbird View Post
      Off the top of my head, it's used to seal the block halves together, and to seal the oil pan to the motor. Everything else has a gasket.
      Although that one really surprises me. I assume there's a groove/channel for it to follow, since it would push apart the two halves. On VW engines I use Indian Head gasket shellac and there are types of Permatex suitable, but definitely not RTV.
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    24. Moderator rs4-380's Avatar
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      03-15-2019 11:09 AM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by TequilaMockingbird View Post
      Off the top of my head, it's used to seal the block halves together, and to seal the oil pan to the motor. Everything else has a gasket.
      based on the diagram on page 1 I assume it's used to seal the timing cover as well.
      Dave

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      03-15-2019 11:14 AM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by BRealistic View Post
      Wait.. their factory installation is to use RTV instead of actual gaskets?
      Yep, "Formed In Place Gasket". Very common. Applied via automated robot, controlling bead location and volume (weight).

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      03-15-2019 11:15 AM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by MAC View Post
      and didn't take 2 smoke breaks an hour
      Everyone else in a shop that doesn't smoke will complain about not getting the breaks too. I ran a car stereo store in the '90s, 2 of the installers smoked constantly and I figured out that over a 12 month period, they were getting more than 40 paid hours to smoke. There's your paid vacation right there. Don't ask for anymore time off.

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