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    Thread: Stock clutch slipping at 16k miles

    1. 03-15-2019 05:27 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by GLXtc View Post
      Trying to go from a stop at max acceleration over and over in a high horsepower manual car with AWD is just asking for trouble. To not bog the engine you need to slip the clutch. And you better do it perfectly.....and even then.

      Why do I think this?

      Owned 2 different model Lancer EVOs. 8 and a 10. On those forums, people were having almost identical conversations to these here. The clutch is weak...etc....
      I never had a problem. Never tried to drag race or accept a "challenge" on the street. Road coursed it plenty.

      owned a mk6 R...the forums were filled with the same stuff.

      Now the Mk7 R people are saying the same thing.

      It's not the clutch.

      Stop trying to get max 0-60 out of these things. Not designed for that. Do it enough with enough HP in a DSG? Same result. Just takes longer.

      If you want to drag race these things (even in mexico or against an invisible challenger at a stoplight) then you just don't have the right equipment. CAN you stock? sure. Will it brake? probably not Then why not do it? ---- that is a question for each individual, but STOP trying to blame the clutches.

      Enthusiast DOES NOT equal good driver.
      This is so true.

      But too many facts. Stop trying.

      Just hit them with the insults and mockery.

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      03-15-2019 05:41 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by GLXtc View Post
      Will it brake? probably not

      It'll brake, just need to depress the correct pedal. Now asking if it will break is an entirely different subject.
      Quote Originally Posted by gwmermel!
      May surprise everyone, but I have been "role-playing" the troll.

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      03-15-2019 05:43 PM #28
      How many people have not had their clutches go may be an argument we need to hear

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      03-15-2019 05:52 PM #29
      Hmmm, I dunno.

      I get the whole driver error and all that for sure. But I'm sure a lot who are complaining of clutch slip here have not launched the car.

      A GTI clutch in an R running 30% more power? Something has to give and it's the clutch it seems. Sucks and it's kinda bull that VW are just putting this down to wear item when they know it's a POS.

    6. 03-15-2019 06:02 PM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by Rulty View Post
      How many people have not had their clutches go may be an argument we need to hear

      Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
      You’ll need to go find them. The working Rs have kid seats in the back and moms using them as ‘last resort’ DDs with dad doing ‘cars and coffee’ Saturday mornings. They aren’t on the Internet unless/until something breaks and even then they just go to the dealer in their stock car for warranty service.

      And they blame their wives for the worn clutch - because the men are all excellent drivers.

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      03-15-2019 06:05 PM #31
      People need to stop letting their wives drive then, since ya know there legs work differently and all all jokes aside maybe this just isn't an "enthusiasts" car. I too got dsg, mainly cause I knew of the clutch failures and didn't want to do the work in my driveway, my clutch packs will probably fail but then I'll just get upgraded ones

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      03-16-2019 12:32 AM #32
      I drive pretty hard. No track days, but plenty of spirited driving. 22,000 miles on the clutch and still good to go. Mostly city driving no commuting.


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      Rick

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      03-16-2019 04:38 AM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by GLXtc View Post
      Trying to go from a stop at max acceleration over and over in a high horsepower manual car with AWD is just asking for trouble. To not bog the engine you need to slip the clutch. And you better do it perfectly.....and even then.

      Why do I think this?

      Owned 2 different model Lancer EVOs. 8 and a 10. On those forums, people were having almost identical conversations to these here. The clutch is weak...etc....
      I never had a problem. Never tried to drag race or accept a "challenge" on the street. Road coursed it plenty.

      owned a mk6 R...the forums were filled with the same stuff.

      Now the Mk7 R people are saying the same thing.

      It's not the clutch.

      Stop trying to get max 0-60 out of these things. Not designed for that. Do it enough with enough HP in a DSG? Same result. Just takes longer.

      If you want to drag race these things (even in mexico or against an invisible challenger at a stoplight) then you just don't have the right equipment. CAN you stock? sure. Will it brake? probably not Then why not do it? ---- that is a question for each individual, but STOP trying to blame the clutches.

      Enthusiast DOES NOT equal good driver.
      I agree that many people are not as good of a driver as they think they are. Hell, I think I'm maaaaybe an average manual driver, and I still probably am worse than I think I am. However, do you truly believe every person who has had their clutch slip under 50k miles are all poor manual drivers? I find that hard to believe.

      I don't know what the first owner of my WRX did, but the clutch died early. I had it replaced with another stock WRX clutch, and it held strong for over 110k miles, which is when I sold the car. The car was making 150+hp over stock the entire time and I'd assume 60+% over stock and Subaru AWD fits your high power (in terms of the stock clutch) AWD platform that you say is asking for trouble. I doubt anyone believes an R clutch could do the same. Add in the clutch delay valve that only increases the amount of clutch slip every single time you release the pedal or the pressure plate failures people have seen when they pull their slipping clutch and it's not hard to see the reasoning why people are pointing at, what seems to be, an under engineered clutch.

      Owning an early model WRX, I was scared ****less of launching the car hard. It had a reputation for a glass tranny, and I did not have the funds to repair a tranny from dicking around launching. I drive my R in a similar fashion to my old WRX. I'm still scared of launching hard, just because it's ingrained in my brain hard launch + AWD = no tire spin and massive driveline shock. Something has to give. That being said, I still have very little faith in this stock clutch and already have purchased an aftermarket clutch for the day my clutch starts to slip and I have less than 11k miles on my car.


      However, back to the original intention of this thread, there's so many posts saying the clutch is the weak point of the car (regardless of whether or not it actually is), to complain the stock clutch is slipping so early just shows lack of research and effort prior to purchasing a car. For most people, a car purchase is probably in the top 5 expenses in life, after a house, raising a kid, and maybe college tuition. The severe lack of time people put into such a significant purchase is pretty ridiculous to me. To complain about being massively overcharged for maintenance and complain about a commonly noted issues sounds like pure laziness and whining by calling your dealer an ass. OP has a join date of 2007, so he knew about this forum and could have easily spent less than an hour browsing the forum and found people reporting early clutch slip. As further evidence of pure laziness, there's clearly a local VW shop who charges less than the dealer, since that's who is putting in your TT-RS clutch, so why did you get massively overcharged for maintenance? If you're only at 16k miles, that maintenance was a 10k mile service? That consists of rotating tires and an oil change? If you felt you were being overcharged, why didn't you shop around?

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      03-16-2019 09:19 AM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by DarkArrow View Post
      However, do you truly believe every person who has had their clutch slip under 50k miles are all poor manual drivers? I find that hard to believe.
      Another confirmation of the R's fragile clutch is the similar experience of owners in other countries where driving a manual is the norm, rather than the exception as it is here. For instance in the UK taking the driving test in an automatic only permits you to drive an automatic, so almost everyone there initially learns to drive a manual. (I had UK, French and Swiss licenses, and in fact had never driven an automatic at all until coming to the US.)

      Early and unexpected clutch failure is a topic in Europe too, and it's hardly likely that R drivers there have somehow forgotten how to properly drive a stick.

      Neil

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      03-16-2019 09:51 AM #35
      me thinks you dudes / this thread scared away the OP

      I got nothing but anecdote - My 1999 B5 A4, got rid of it in 2017 @ 242k miles. Honestly, I do not recall a clutch service ever.
      If you are going at a speed that causes you to run off the road before ESC can provide any assistance, you may not experience the benefits of ESC

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      03-16-2019 11:56 AM #36
      It's a pos, it can't handle stock power even. This is very well known.

    13. 03-16-2019 02:45 PM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by NeilCM View Post
      Another confirmation of the R's fragile clutch is the similar experience of owners in other countries where driving a manual is the norm, rather than the exception as it is here. For instance in the UK taking the driving test in an automatic only permits you to drive an automatic, so almost everyone there initially learns to drive a manual. (I had UK, French and Swiss licenses, and in fact had never driven an automatic at all until coming to the US.)

      Early and unexpected clutch failure is a topic in Europe too, and it's hardly likely that R drivers there have somehow forgotten how to properly drive a stick.

      Neil
      Not about being able to drive stick...

      It’s the selection bias issue of who buys and drives an R. All the folks complaining about the clutch drive more aggressively than they are truly capable of driving and more aggressively than they think they drive. That’s it. Nothing else. If I gave a bunch of Rs to old French women who were in the market for a 103 HP Opal, the clutches would all be fine.

      Folks can’t buy the cheapest ‘race car’ made and ignore the fact that every part was designed to save weight and costs, then drive it at the edge of its design specs and expect it to last forever. That’s not how it works. Drive hard and you wear stuff out.

      And I don’t believe you when you say you don’t drive hard.

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      03-16-2019 05:48 PM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by i<3pedals View Post
      Not about being able to drive stick...

      It’s the selection bias issue of who buys and drives an R. All the folks complaining about the clutch drive more aggressively than they are truly capable of driving and more aggressively than they think they drive. That’s it. Nothing else. If I gave a bunch of Rs to old French women who were in the market for a 103 HP Opal, the clutches would all be fine.

      Folks can’t buy the cheapest ‘race car’ made and ignore the fact that every part was designed to save weight and costs, then drive it at the edge of its design specs and expect it to last forever. That’s not how it works. Drive hard and you wear stuff out.

      And I don’t believe you when you say you don’t drive hard.

      So, let me get this straight. By your logic, it's now no longer about not being able to drive stick. Instead, don't drive a 300hp car like it has 300hp car, because it's not a race car, or in your terms it's the "cheapest race car". And, to make the R clutch have a similar service life to other performance oriented "cheapest race car" type vehicles, the R should be driven like a 103 HP Opal.

      You say this is selection bias because the R specifically targets performance oriented drivers who drive more aggressively. Of course it will have selection bias, because that's what a target audience is. Wouldn't you think the clutch should be designed for the target market? If VW does not expect anyone shopping for a 103HP Opal to buy the R, why is there a clutch that requires someone to drive like a 103 HP Opal to get a decent service life from the clutch? How does that not point to an under engineered part?


      And, because you had to add it in at the end, I don't believe you when you say you would drive the stock clutch past warranty if you had a 6MT.

    15. 03-16-2019 07:58 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by DarkArrow View Post
      So, let me get this straight. By your logic, it's now no longer about not being able to drive stick. Instead, don't drive a 300hp car like it has 300hp car, because it's not a race car, or in your terms it's the "cheapest race car". And, to make the R clutch have a similar service life to other performance oriented "cheapest race car" type vehicles, the R should be driven like a 103 HP Opal.

      You say this is selection bias because the R specifically targets performance oriented drivers who drive more aggressively. Of course it will have selection bias, because that's what a target audience is. Wouldn't you think the clutch should be designed for the target market? If VW does not expect anyone shopping for a 103HP Opal to buy the R, why is there a clutch that requires someone to drive like a 103 HP Opal to get a decent service life from the clutch? How does that not point to an under engineered part?


      And, because you had to add it in at the end, I don't believe you when you say you would drive the stock clutch past warranty if you had a 6MT.
      Let me clear up my position...

      I don’t care at all about any of this.

      It seems clear to me R drivers beat the crap of their clutches. I ordered an R because it seems like a reasonably fun car that is mostly practical - a Golf + a little fun but still a Golf. I also ordered a DSG. Computers are better at shifting than I am.

      I considered an STI, a Stinger, 340i, and a couple others. What I learned in my research was don’t buy a used entry-level performance car. The previous owner tried to kill it from day one.

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      03-16-2019 08:01 PM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by l_gilroy View Post
      rsw81: Let us know how you like your new clutch. That's the clutch I will probably go with when the time comes (currently at 40,000 km)
      I'm going to reserve judgement on the set up until after it's broken in. The pressure plates are notoriously stiff at first, and loosen up after several hundred miles. Currently, it's 250% stiffer than the stock setup, but I've spoken to others with the same setup that it eventually is 120% stock stiffness/effort. One thing is for sure is that the quality of materials is far superior in the aftermarket Sachs stuff than the OEM stuff they provide. Classic example is the throw out bearing having a metal face vs plastic.

      Quote Originally Posted by i<3pedals View Post
      You’ll need to go find them. The working Rs have kid seats in the back and moms using them as ‘last resort’ DDs with dad doing ‘cars and coffee’ Saturday mornings. They aren’t on the Internet unless/until something breaks and even then they just go to the dealer in their stock car for warranty service.

      And they blame their wives for the worn clutch - because the men are all excellent drivers.
      Um hum... I'm that dad with the car seats in the back, using the car as my daily driver, and don't launch the car. Sure I drive it in a spirited way, but why else buy an R. If you don't want to drive it in a fun way, buy a normal golf. Despite being mostly gentle on my clutch, mine burned out at 38.5k miles. I've owned many high performance cars (not bargain cars - 60's Mustangs, M3s, and currently building an AC Cobra kit car) and never had these problems. I suspect a combination of the delay valve in the hydraulics and/or the low clamping pressure of the stock pressure plate. Or... it's because my wife drove the car once.

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