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    Thread: I Was Wrong, You Were Right, Car Still Won't Start

    1. 03-16-2019 12:05 AM #1
      I'm dumb, you're smart; I'm lame, you're not. It's been cold with the exception of this week in Maryland and I decided that it's just taking too long to get this car on the road so I went ahead and bought the VCDS from Ross Tech. I admit, this is one nifty little tool! Very comprehensive and can be used for a whole bunch of cars, not just the Phaeton like I initially thought.

      Anyway, my issue is the car turns but won't start. Here are the codes, a far cry from the million i was told it would have, (thankfully) but it doesn't seem like these would cause any starting problems.

      Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 3D0-614-517.lbl
      Part No: 3D0 614 517 AK
      Component: ESP 5.7 allrad H33 0047
      Coding: 0008376
      Shop #: WSC 06403 000 00000
      VCID: 6B83C688AF93DB0F5BF-51F2

      1 Fault Found:
      01826 - Sensor for Steering Angle (G85); Supply Voltage Terminal 30
      000 - -
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 3D0-907-040.lbl
      Part No: 3D0 907 040 H
      Component: Climatronic D1 2021
      Coding: 0000002
      Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
      VCID: 2313EEA807C3D34FA3F-5160

      1 Fault Found:
      00779 - Outside Air Temp Sensor (G17)
      010 - Open or Short to Plus
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Address 17: Instruments Labels: 3D0-920-xxx-17.lbl
      Part No: 3D0 920 981 H
      Component: KOMBIINSTRUMENT RB8 0414
      Coding: 0007221
      Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
      VCID: 2C0105946A1D1C37125-5160

      1 Fault Found:
      01320 - Control Module for Climatronic (J255)
      013 - Check DTC Memory
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Address 34: Level Control Labels: 3D0-907-553-V1.clb
      Part No: 3D0 907 553 B
      Component: LUFTFDR.-CDC- 3C1V0 1101
      Coding: 0017700
      Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
      VCID: 2615F7BC74F12667C41-5160

      1 Fault Found:
      00778 - Steering Angle Sensor (G85)
      004 - No Signal/Communication
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Address 65: Tire Pressure Labels: None
      Part No: 3D0 907 273 G
      Component: Reifendruckueberw. 0026
      Coding: 0410304
      Shop #: WSC 07909 002 1048576
      VCID: 2A0D038C60E90207E09-5160

      1 Fault Found:
      01312 - Powertrain Data Bus
      013 - Check DTC Memory

      The car was in a little accident with front impact and the bumper is off so I know that's probably what's going on with the outside temp sensor. It has a little below a half tank of gas (Gas could be bad though so I put 2 gallons of fresh BP Premium in there, I may add more). I haven't checked the spark plugs but that's what I plan to do next.

      To test something, I pulled the fuel pump relays and tried to start the car, it just turned. When I reinstalled the fuel pump relays, it would turn then jolt as if it was trying to start, then go back to turning, then jolt again. To describe it, it sounded just like my old 91 Caprice did when the engine was flooded with gas. So it tries to start it just can't for some reason. It also doesn't sound like there's a compression issue as the cranks sound normal for a Phaeton (I think) I've test driven a W12 today (almost bought it for 5K) and one last week, completely different motors but the W12's cranked slightly faster than my V8.


      Thanks everyone for your help
      Any ideas on what this could be? Wouldn't the VCDS show if it were a spark plug problem?

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    3. Member
      Join Date
      Feb 10th, 2015
      Location
      Utah, USA
      Posts
      4,610
      Vehicles
      4 VWs, 1 Buick, 1 Ford & 1 Jag
      03-16-2019 02:51 AM #2
      Quote Originally Posted by Shyheim103 View Post
      The car was in a little accident with front impact and the bumper is off so I know that's probably what's going on with the outside temp sensor. It has a little below a half tank of gas (Gas could be bad though so I put 2 gallons of fresh BP Premium in there, I may add more). I haven't checked the spark plugs but that's what I plan to do next.

      To test something, I pulled the fuel pump relays and tried to start the car, it just turned. When I reinstalled the fuel pump relays, it would turn then jolt as if it was trying to start, then go back to turning, then jolt again. To describe it, it sounded just like my old 91 Caprice did when the engine was flooded with gas. So it tries to start it just can't for some reason. It also doesn't sound like there's a compression issue as the cranks sound normal for a Phaeton (I think) I've test driven a W12 today (almost bought it for 5K) and one last week, completely different motors but the W12's cranked slightly faster than my V8.


      Thanks everyone for your help
      Any ideas on what this could be? Wouldn't the VCDS show if it were a spark plug problem?
      I just glanced at your scan again before hitting "Submit Reply". You have a powertrain bus fault. I'd reset that because it's in the powertrain bus. That bus controls everything in the powertrain. There wasn't a fault in controller 1?


      From earlier:

      I don't think the plugs themselves would cause a fault but a misfire would. I have seen "misfire" faults on 8486 when it had a glitch once but was running great.

      The plugs could be fouled. They will still spark outside the engine. I have personal experience with this on another car. If they are fouled, I don't know if they would cause misfire faults because the ignition might "think" everything was hunky dory because the current went out.

      You can check all of the fuses that protect the ignition system. See my detailed reply about fuses in the tail light thread.

      If ignition fuse (or fuses) are blown I don't know if that would cause a misfire fault but I would think it would. Doesn't hurt to check.

      I guess it could also be flooded. You can pull the fuel pump relays and fuel pump fuses (if there are any fuel pump fuses) and crank it over to try to burn off any fuel left in the intakes and cylinders.

      Crank it longer than you did before but let it rest between cranks. When the KESSY goes on the W12 (and maybe the V8 also) it tends to crank the starter until it burns up. You don't want to do that. A few minutes should be sufficient if your plugs are firing and not fouled.

      I would buy another W12 but $5K sounds really low. There is a 2004 W12 on eBay with more miles than mine and they want more than I paid in 2014 for 7579.

    4. Junior Member
      Join Date
      Dec 28th, 2017
      Location
      MD
      Posts
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      Vehicles
      '04 W12 Phaeton, '14 Touareg TDI R-Line, '14 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland EcoDiesel
      03-16-2019 08:24 AM #3
      Was that W12 at King Kia/VW in Gaithersburg? If so, I called about that one. They said it's not for sale due to it needing a transmission and it was going to wholesale.

    5. 03-16-2019 09:16 AM #4
      Thanks for the replies. I'll go through the fuses and check the spark plugs. And nope, no other faults. Those are the only ones. As for the powertrain fault, I've done some research and I think it's the TPMS failing as usual since it's listed under Tire Pressure Labels. No codes under engine or transmission at all. The car seems to be tip top considering how I bought it and what I paid ($1200). It's ridiculously clean and has maintenance records up to I think a few hundred miles ago then some minor accident.

      While thinking about it in my sleep, I had the idea that I probably have a vacuum leak. Doing research online others with A8's have had vacuum leaks with no error codes and that's EXACTLY how the car is acting. Something is missing from the starting process, I'm sure there's spark, sure there's fuel, pretty sure there's compression, but it might not be any air. One of those hoses could've gotten nicked in the accident or the dealer just unplugged one, they did a lot of dumb stuff during their diagnosis to total the car. In fact, copart and the dealership did most of the damage to the thing!

      Another thing that was strange was the inside of the fuel door is all gunked up. I've never seen anything like it, it looks like.... murky muddy water was in there. It wasn't... but it looks like trash and is all cruddy, so I'm thinking of adding more fuel in case there's something watery about the fuel, or maybe an additive, but I hate adding stuff like that. Some Lucas might not hurt though.

      As for the W12, YES! That's the one! In Laurel with the "Bentley" wheels, I'm positive those rims are replicas. I went to see it yesterday, and at first the guy was all "It needs a new tranny I don't want to sell it to just anyone", earlier in the week which I appreciated. But this guy is a total dirtbag. He tells me the car is a 9/10 in cleanliness.... it's not. Paint damage on both bumpers, rust in the engine bay, the engine looks like it was fished out of a lake. The interior is also not clean. I could clean it up but... meh. All EIGHT of the rims have terrible curb rash.

      He said it was 1 owner - It had 5.
      He said everything else was perfect on it - There's a terrible vibration when braking.
      He said the vibration was just the rotors - Rotors and brakes were done 5K miles ago so unless it was in an accident, that's unlikely.
      He also wouldn't let me put it in sport mode, or drive it in tiptronic, or test the sunroof, or the radio (which came on with a loud screech and he quickly turned it off)
      He also knew I was coming and the car was already warm when I got there. Now it struggled to start so the batteries are probably low and that's why they did that. But this guy totally knows nothing about the car, he keeps slamming all the doors even though they're soft close, and well, they don't work. Probably due to the convenience battery being low, but other accessories work like the seats.

      In regard to the tranny, it just slips from 1st to 2nd. That's all i could tell from that short test drive which he drove most of the way....

      I did do a diagnostic on it and can post the faults. He says... "Whatever you find out, I don't want to know about it. Just tell me Yes or no on the car and don't try to negotiate with me, NO CHOPPIES."

    6. Junior Member
      Join Date
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      '04 W12 Phaeton, '14 Touareg TDI R-Line, '14 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland EcoDiesel
      03-16-2019 12:06 PM #5
      Very interesting on the W12. It's 4th owner(I believe) was a member from Minnesota here on Vortex. The floor mats in one of the pictures gave it away. He was a very nice guy who knew everything about a Phaeton and owned two W12's and was replacing this one. I was going to buy it from him but in the end it just didn't work out. The car was certainly not in the condition you describe when I was considering buying it. It seems like the 5th owner trashed it. Funny how it ended up for sale 30 miles away from me.

    7. 03-16-2019 03:47 PM #6
      That's exactly it! It came from Minnesota, I was trying to get in contact with that dealership to get the service history on it. They were having phone problems and I had already scheduled the appointment. But I was telling my mom and wife that as well. I believe the 5th owner completely trashed the car. He only had it for about 12K and a year and a half, sheesh! I'm wondering if he could've done THAT much damage to it in that short of time?

      Also, why did the 4th owner get rid of it? Did he mention anything about flushing the tranny and other maintenance? I saw he took it religiously to be serviced, but again, the carfax has no details. Here's a list of the fault codes for kicks and giggles. I was also digging the mats in the photos! Shame.

      Friday,15,March,2019,12:49:23:25269
      VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
      VCDS Version: 18.9.1.0 HEX-V2 CB: 0.4437.4
      Data version: 20190114 DS296.0
      www.Ross-Tech.com


      VIN: WVWAH63D148007870 License Plate:


      Chassis Type: 3D (3D - VW Phaeton (2002 > 2006))
      Scan: 01 02 03 05 06 07 08 09 11 13 15 16 17 18 19 23 27 28 29 2E
      34 36 37 38 39 46 47 55 56 57 65 66 68 69 71 75 76 77

      VIN: WVWAH63D148007870 Mileage: 179050km-111256miles
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Address 01: Engine Labels: 07C-906-018-BAP1.lbl
      Part No SW: 07C 906 018 C HW:
      Component: D1-6.0L-AG-LEV G ª5211
      Coding: 0000173
      Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
      VCID: 2517F0B009F72D7FCDB-513C

      13 Faults Found:
      16684 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
      P0300 - 008 - - Intermittent
      18331 - Please Check DTC Memory of ECU Number 2
      P1923 - 008 -
      18104 - Powertrain Data Bus
      P1696 - 002 - Implausible Message from Steering Column Controller - Intermittent
      18036 - Powertrain Data Bus
      P1628 - 008 - Missing Message from Steering Angle Sensor - Intermittent
      18043 - Powertrain Data Bus
      P1635 - 008 - Missing Message from A/C Controller - Intermittent
      18057 - Powertrain Data Bus
      P1649 - 008 - Missing Message from ABS Controller - Intermittent
      16885 - Vehicle Speed Sensor
      P0501 - 004 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
      18034 - Powertrain Data Bus
      P1626 - 008 - Missing Message from TCU - Intermittent
      16455 - Sensor for Ambient Air Temperature (G17)
      P0071 - 004 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
      18090 - Powertrain Data Bus
      P1682 - 008 - Implausible Message from ABS Controller - Intermittent
      28787 - Second (Slave) Engine Control Module
      U0115 - 004 - No Communication - Intermittent
      16804 - Catalyst System; Bank 1
      P0420 - 001 - Efficiency Below Threshold - Intermittent
      16814 - Catalyst System; Bank 2
      P0430 - 001 - Efficiency Below Threshold - Intermittent
      Readiness: 0000 0000

      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 3D0-927-156.lbl
      Part No: 3D0 927 156 N
      Component: AG5 01L 6.0 W12 USA 1114
      Coding: 0001102
      Shop #: WSC 13622 410 403014
      VCID: 33331EE8B72343CF53F-513C

      2 Faults Found:
      17114 - Gear Ratio Monitoring
      P0730 - 003 - Incorrect Gear Ratio - Intermittent
      17125 - Torque Converter Clutch
      P0741 - 003 - Stuck OFF / No Power being transferred

      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 3D0-614-517.lbl
      Part No: 3D0 614 517 AK
      Component: ESP 5.7 allrad H36 0047
      Coding: 0008397
      Shop #: WSC 49737 000 00000
      VCID: 6B83C688AF93DB0F5BF-51CE

      1 Fault Found:
      01119 - Gear Recognition Signal
      000 - - - Intermittent

      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Address 05: Acc/Start Auth. Labels: 3D0-909-13x-05.lbl
      Part No SW: 3D0 909 135 M HW: 5WK 470 26
      Component: Kessy 6400
      Coding: 0133356
      Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
      VCID: 2F3B12985B0B672F377-5160

      Subsystem 1 - Part No: XXXXXXXXXXX
      Component: ELV XXXX

      10 Faults Found:
      00003 - Control Module
      012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit
      01299 - Diagnostic Interface for Data Bus (J533)
      005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting / Adaptation - Intermittent
      00087 - Terminal 30 for Starting Relevant Consumers
      009 - Open or Short to Ground - Intermittent
      00668 - Supply Voltage Terminal 30
      009 - Open or Short to Ground - Intermittent
      00190 - Driver's Door Handle Touch Sensor (G415)
      007 - Short to Ground - Intermittent
      00191 - Passenger's Door Handle Touch Sensor (G416)
      007 - Short to Ground - Intermittent
      00192 - Rear Left Door Handle Touch Sensor (G417)
      007 - Short to Ground - Intermittent
      00193 - Rear Right Door Handle Touch Sensor (G418)
      007 - Short to Ground - Intermittent
      01315 - Transmission Control Module
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      01176 - Key
      008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Address 06: Seat Mem. Pass Labels: 3D0-959-759.lbl
      Part No: 3D0 959 759 B
      Component: Sitzmemory D1 BF 1501
      Coding: 0000003
      Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
      VCID: 353720F0B9575DFF7DB-5160

      4 Faults Found:
      00668 - Supply Voltage Terminal 30
      001 - Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
      00668 - Supply Voltage Terminal 30
      002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
      00477 - Control Module; Display & Input; Comfort CAN; Front (J523)
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      01308 - Control Module for Roof Electronics (J528)
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent

      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Address 07: Control Head Labels: 3D0-035-00x-07.lbl
      Part No: 3D0 035 008 M
      Component: ZAB COCKPIT 0188
      Coding: 0500305
      Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
      VCID: 2411EDB402CDD477DA5-5160

      9 Faults Found:
      00384 - Optical Databus
      004 - No Signal/Communication
      00668 - Supply Voltage Terminal 30
      002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
      00385 - Positive Output Audio Channel for Speech/Telephone
      012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit - Intermittent
      00386 - Negative Output Audio Channel for Speech/Telephone
      012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit - Intermittent
      00387 - Plus Output Audio Channel for Navigation Announcements
      012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit - Intermittent
      00388 - Negative Output Audio Channel for Navigation Messages
      012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit - Intermittent
      00856 - Radio Antenna
      007 - Short to Ground - Intermittent
      00823 - Line-Output; Front Left
      012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit - Intermittent
      00859 - Line-Output; Front Right
      012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit - Intermittent

      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 3D0-907-040.lbl
      Part No: 3D0 907 040 G
      Component: Climatronic D1 1132
      Coding: 0000002
      Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
      VCID: 221DEBAC18D9DA47A89-5160

      4 Faults Found:
      00019 - Motor for Warm-Air Flap (V198)
      014 - Defective - Intermittent
      00023 - Motor for Warm-Air Flap; Center Console Rear Left (V202)
      014 - Defective - Intermittent
      00716 - Air recirculation Flap Positioning Motor (V113)
      014 - Defective - Intermittent
      00477 - Control Module; Display & Input; Comfort CAN; Front (J523)
      008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Address 09: Cent. Elect. Labels: 3D0-937-049-V1.clb
      Part No: 3D0 937 049 G
      Component: STG.Bordnetz 5001
      Coding: 0000002
      Shop #: WSC 23337 444 64779
      VCID: 2E050F9C5C016E273C1-5160

      4 Faults Found:
      00978 - Lamp for Low Beam; Left (M29)
      010 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
      00576 - Terminal 15
      008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
      00907 - Intervention load Management
      000 - -
      00884 - Ignition Switch (D) Terminal X
      008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Address 11: Engine II Labels: 07C-906-018-BAP2.lbl
      Part No SW: 07C 906 018 C HW:
      Component: D1-6.0L-AG-LEV G ª5211
      Coding: 0000173
      Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
      VCID: 2517F0B009F72D7FCDB-513C

      9 Faults Found:
      16684 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
      P0300 - 008 - - Intermittent
      16691 - Cylinder 7
      P0307 - 008 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent
      18104 - Powertrain Data Bus
      P1696 - 002 - Implausible Message from Steering Column Controller - Intermittent
      18036 - Powertrain Data Bus
      P1628 - 008 - Missing Message from Steering Angle Sensor - Intermittent
      18043 - Powertrain Data Bus
      P1635 - 008 - Missing Message from A/C Controller - Intermittent
      18057 - Powertrain Data Bus
      P1649 - 008 - Missing Message from ABS Controller - Intermittent
      18034 - Powertrain Data Bus
      P1626 - 008 - Missing Message from TCU - Intermittent
      18090 - Powertrain Data Bus
      P1682 - 008 - Implausible Message from ABS Controller - Intermittent
      28772 - No Communication with Engine Control Module (SAE ECM/PCM)
      U0100 - 004 - - Intermittent


      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Address 17: Instruments Labels: 3D0-920-xxx-17.lbl
      Part No: 3D0 920 981 G
      Component: KOMBIINSTRUMENT RB8 0421
      Coding: 0007221
      Shop #: WSC 09427 444 101272
      VCID: 2B0306886F131B0F1BF-5160

      14 Faults Found:
      00455 - Control Module for Access and Start Control; Comfort CAN (J518)
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      00457 - Control Module for Network (J519)
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      00466 - Control Module for Steering Column Electronics (J527)
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      00477 - Control Module; Display & Input; Comfort CAN; Front (J523)
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      01320 - Control Module for Climatronic (J255)
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      01325 - Control Module for Tire Pressure Monitoring (J502)
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      01330 - Central Control Module for Central Convenience (J393)
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      01331 - Door Control Module; Driver Side (J386)
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      01332 - Door Control Module; Passenger Side (J387)
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      01333 - Door Control Module; Rear Left (J388)
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      01334 - Door Control Module; Rear Right (J389)
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      01336 - Company Data Bus for Comfort System
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      01300 - Control Module for Navigation with CD-Rom (J401)
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      01305 - Databus for Infotainment
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent

      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
      Part No: 6N0 909 901
      Component: Gateway K<>CAN 0101
      Coding: 0000006
      Shop #: WSC 09427 444 101272
      VCID: 70B9D1E486B538D76ED-5160

      21 Faults Found:
      00455 - Control Module for Access and Start Control; Comfort CAN (J518)
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      00457 - Control Module for Network (J519)
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      00461 - Control Module for Seat Memory; Passenger (J521)
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      00462 - Control Module for Seat Memory; Rear (J522)
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      00466 - Control Module for Steering Column Electronics (J527)
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      00477 - Control Module; Display & Input; Comfort CAN; Front (J523)
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      00478 - Control Module; Display & Input; Comfort CAN; Rear (J524)
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      00908 - Control Module for Wiper Motor
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      01308 - Control Module for Roof Electronics (J528)
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      01320 - Control Module for Climatronic (J255)
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      01325 - Control Module for Tire Pressure Monitoring (J502)
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      01327 - Control Module for Parking Aid (J446)
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      01330 - Central Control Module for Central Convenience (J393)
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      01331 - Door Control Module; Driver Side (J386)
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      01332 - Door Control Module; Passenger Side (J387)
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      01333 - Door Control Module; Rear Left (J388)
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      01334 - Door Control Module; Rear Right (J389)
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      01335 - Drivers Seat/Mirror Position Control Module (J543)
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      01336 - Company Data Bus for Comfort System
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      01300 - Control Module for Navigation with CD-Rom (J401)
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      01305 - Databus for Infotainment
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent

      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Address 28: HVAC, Rear Labels: 3D0-919-158.lbl
      Part No: 3D0 919 158 F
      Component: Klima-Bedienteil D1 0117
      Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
      VCID: 2E050F9C5C016E273C1-5160

      1 Fault Found:
      00477 - Control Module; Display & Input; Comfort CAN; Front (J523)
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent


      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Address 36: Seat Mem. Drvr Labels: 3D0-959-760.lbl
      Part No: 3D0 959 760 B
      Component: Sitzmemory D1 F 1501
      Coding: 0000004
      Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
      VCID: 2D0708905107153F05B-5160

      No Faults Found
      or DTCs not supported by controller
      or a communication error occurred

      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Address 37: Navigation Labels: 3D0-919-887.lbl
      Part No: 3D0 919 887 AX
      Component: NAVIGATION 0147
      Coding: 0400000
      Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
      VCID: 0A4DA30C80296207C09-5160

      2 Faults Found:
      01042 - Control Module; Not Coded
      000 - -
      00668 - Supply Voltage Terminal 30
      002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent

      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Address 38: Roof Electronics Labels: 3D0-907-135.lbl
      Part No: 3D0 907 135 C
      Component: Dachmodul 0708
      Coding: 0000011
      Shop #: WSC 09427 444 16918
      VCID: 2313EEA807C3D34FA3F-5160

      3 Faults Found:
      00220 - Connection to Sunroof
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      00926 - Terminal 30
      002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
      00308 - Supply Voltage for Motors for Sunroof/sunroof Shade
      002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent


      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 3D0-959-933.lbl
      Part No: 3D0 959 933 E
      Component: 6P HSG 3211
      Coding: 0000040
      Shop #: WSC 23337 444 64779
      VCID: 323D1BEC48394AC7589-4B00

      Subsystem 1 - Part No: 3D1 959 701 E
      Component: Tuersteuergeraet FS 0104

      Subsystem 2 - Part No: 3D1 959 702 E
      Component: Tuersteuergeraet BF 0104

      Subsystem 3 - Part No: 3D0 959 703 E
      Component: Tuersteuergeraet HL 0104

      Subsystem 4 - Part No: 3D0 959 704 E
      Component: Tuersteuergeraet HR 0104

      Subsystem 5 - Part No: 3D0 909 610 E
      Component: 3O HDSG 2530

      Subsystem 6 - Part No: 7L0 907 719
      Component: Neigungssensor 0020

      15 Faults Found:
      01335 - Drivers Seat/Mirror Position Control Module (J543)
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      01325 - Control Module for Tire Pressure Monitoring (J502)
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      01341 - Control Module in Instrument Panel On Comfort CAN (J285)
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      00477 - Control Module; Display & Input; Comfort CAN; Front (J523)
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      00927 - Terminal 30 (Right)
      011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent
      01516 - Terminal 30; Left
      011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent
      00926 - Terminal 30
      011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent
      00668 - Supply Voltage Terminal 30
      002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
      00576 - Terminal 15
      008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
      01038 - Central Locking Thermal Protection
      000 - - - Intermittent
      01134 - Alarm Horn (H12)
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
      01331 - Door Control Module; Driver Side (J386)
      002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
      01332 - Door Control Module; Passenger Side (J387)
      002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
      01333 - Door Control Module; Rear Left (J388)
      002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
      01334 - Door Control Module; Rear Right (J389)
      002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent


      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Address 66: Seat, Rear Labels: None
      Part No: 3D0 959 860 B
      Component: Sitzmemory D1 H 1513
      Coding: 0000001
      Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
      VCID: 2E050F9C5C016E273C1-5160

      3 Faults Found:
      00668 - Supply Voltage Terminal 30
      001 - Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
      00668 - Supply Voltage Terminal 30
      002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
      00477 - Control Module; Display & Input; Comfort CAN; Front (J523)
      004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent


      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Address 76: Park Assist Labels: None
      Part No: 3D0 919 283 C
      Component: 03 Einparkhilfe 0807
      Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
      VCID: 2A0D038C60E90207E09-5160

      1 Fault Found:
      01627 - Sensor for Parking-Aid; Front Mid-Right (G253)
      009 - Open or Short to Ground

      End----(Elapsed Time: 07:30, VBatt start/end: 11.8V/11.8V. VIgn 0.0V)------

    8. Member
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      03-16-2019 04:22 PM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by Shyheim103 View Post
      Thanks for the replies. I'll go through the fuses and check the spark plugs. And nope, no other faults. Those are the only ones. As for the powertrain fault, I've done some research and I think it's the TPMS failing as usual since it's listed under Tire Pressure Labels. No codes under engine or transmission at all. The car seems to be tip top considering how I bought it and what I paid ($1200). It's ridiculously clean and has maintenance records up to I think a few hundred miles ago then some minor accident.

      While thinking about it in my sleep, I had the idea that I probably have a vacuum leak. Doing research online others with A8's have had vacuum leaks with no error codes and that's EXACTLY how the car is acting. Something is missing from the starting process, I'm sure there's spark, sure there's fuel, pretty sure there's compression, but it might not be any air. One of those hoses could've gotten nicked in the accident or the dealer just unplugged one, they did a lot of dumb stuff during their diagnosis to total the car. In fact, copart and the dealership did most of the damage to the thing!

      Another thing that was strange was the inside of the fuel door is all gunked up. I've never seen anything like it, it looks like.... murky muddy water was in there. It wasn't... but it looks like trash and is all cruddy, so I'm thinking of adding more fuel in case there's something watery about the fuel, or maybe an additive, but I hate adding stuff like that. Some Lucas might not hurt though.
      Yeah, vacuum leaks cause all sorts of problems. I know on the W12, a vacuum leak at the engine will cause a CEL and fault for the Secondary Air Injection system. My Phaeton 8486 had that and the mechanic at the dealer said any vacuum leak on the engine could cause it.

      I think a vacuum leak big enough to cause it to not start is a missing or disconnected giant hose or a large hose with a big hole in it. I think that could be any large hose that is supposed to be connected to the intake.

      Did you look at pictures of what the 4.2 should look like and compare it with yours?

      The TPMS is on the convenience bus, not the powertrain bus:

      https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...76601#19276601

      Does the gas smell old when you take off the gas cap?

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      03-16-2019 04:50 PM #8
      For that W12, I would fully charge the batteries and reset the heck out of the controllers. Then see what sticks.

      You'd probably have to buy it first though and you won't know what is really wrong with it to make an informed decision. Will the seller let you take it to get diagnosed?

      It sounds like the 5th owner drove it hard and put it up wet.

      What year is it? Only 2005 and later had soft close doors. Mine aren't soft close but I usually just let them go from half open and they close all the way. They don't need slamming. On 7579, the right rear door wasn't quite flush. I readjusted the striker until the door closed flush without slamming it. I just let it close naturally like the other doors. It took several tries to get it right though.

      If that W12 got put through the ringer, there's no telling what needs readjusting or readapting.

      Is the wood nice or cracked?

    10. 03-16-2019 07:05 PM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN View Post
      Yeah, vacuum leaks cause all sorts of problems. I know on the W12, a vacuum leak at the engine will cause a CEL and fault for the Secondary Air Injection system. My Phaeton 8486 had that and the mechanic at the dealer said any vacuum leak on the engine could cause it.

      I think a vacuum leak big enough to cause it to not start is a missing or disconnected giant hose or a large hose with a big hole in it. I think that could be any large hose that is supposed to be connected to the intake.

      Did you look at pictures of what the 4.2 should look like and compare it with yours?

      The TPMS is on the convenience bus, not the powertrain bus:

      https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...76601#19276601

      Does the gas smell old when you take off the gas cap?

      I was thinking the same. A vacuum leak could cause a rough idle, but not starting would be incredibly severe. As for the Tire Pressure Label error I think I'll just have to wait until I can drive it to see if it corrects itself.

      Yep. Looked at the pictures, the engine is identical. Looks like nothing has been touched at all. The damage was at the radiator shroud/bracket and the condensor and it bent the radiator a bit and obviously cracked the bottom of the bumper.

      On to the gas. I forgot to take a pic of it again today, but the inside of the gas tank door is all cruddy. A guy was at my sister's house to do some plumbing work and saw me out there and said that looks like it was from water condensation and asked if the fuel was old. He said his mustang which takes premium sat for 2 months and wouldn't start. Said he sprayed some starter fluid in there and it fired up but drove like trash and would stall until he put fresh gas in it. HE smelled the cap of mine and said it smelled bad to him and he's positive it's just bad gas.

      So I got some fuel enhancer from walmart that gets rid of water and whatnot and boosts the octane of the gas. I'm going to add another 2 gallons of fresh Shell 93 in there, and going to make sure the air filters are clean and no debris is in there. (saw some leaves and sand or something in the intake before the filter). Then I'm going to spray a dab of starter fluid in there and that should do the trick.

      I checked today, nothing is unplugged or cracked or has any holes. Everything looks fine so it has to be the gas. It did sit through a colder winter and my 96 impala wouldn't start at all on a cold day after I put Citgo premium in there. Had to get some BP in there in order for it to start so it's likely this is my problem now.

      Gonna try again tomorrow!

    11. 03-16-2019 07:10 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN View Post
      For that W12, I would fully charge the batteries and reset the heck out of the controllers. Then see what sticks.

      You'd probably have to buy it first though and you won't know what is really wrong with it to make an informed decision. Will the seller let you take it to get diagnosed?

      It sounds like the 5th owner drove it hard and put it up wet.

      What year is it? Only 2005 and later had soft close doors. Mine aren't soft close but I usually just let them go from half open and they close all the way. They don't need slamming. On 7579, the right rear door wasn't quite flush. I readjusted the striker until the door closed flush without slamming it. I just let it close naturally like the other doors. It took several tries to get it right though.

      If that W12 got put through the ringer, there's no telling what needs readjusting or readapting.

      Is the wood nice or cracked?

      Exactly. The transmission gives me pause and also that knock/pulse when braking. I think it's the wheels honestly, but it could be something else dealing with a control arm or wishbone or something.

      It's an 04 and I had no idea! Learn something new everyday.

      The wood is cracked. Not all over the place but it ain't mint condition. My V8 is a 10/10 compared to this one. There's also a little rattle when it starts coming from the engine. It's brief and lasts for about 2 seconds or so right after the engine starts. That also gave me pause but then I read that the V8's do it too sometimes and it's normal.

    12. Junior Member
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      03-16-2019 09:10 PM #11
      Check out his ads in the Vortex Marketplace. It's possible that this was his other W12 that he wasn't selling at the time.

      https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...00-Minneapolis
      https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...es-Minneapolis

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      03-16-2019 09:17 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by Shyheim103 View Post
      I was thinking the same. A vacuum leak could cause a rough idle, but not starting would be incredibly severe. As for the Tire Pressure Label error I think I'll just have to wait until I can drive it to see if it corrects itself.

      Yep. Looked at the pictures, the engine is identical. Looks like nothing has been touched at all. The damage was at the radiator shroud/bracket and the condensor and it bent the radiator a bit and obviously cracked the bottom of the bumper.

      On to the gas. I forgot to take a pic of it again today, but the inside of the gas tank door is all cruddy. A guy was at my sister's house to do some plumbing work and saw me out there and said that looks like it was from water condensation and asked if the fuel was old. He said his mustang which takes premium sat for 2 months and wouldn't start. Said he sprayed some starter fluid in there and it fired up but drove like trash and would stall until he put fresh gas in it. HE smelled the cap of mine and said it smelled bad to him and he's positive it's just bad gas.

      So I got some fuel enhancer from walmart that gets rid of water and whatnot and boosts the octane of the gas. I'm going to add another 2 gallons of fresh Shell 93 in there, and going to make sure the air filters are clean and no debris is in there. (saw some leaves and sand or something in the intake before the filter). Then I'm going to spray a dab of starter fluid in there and that should do the trick.

      I checked today, nothing is unplugged or cracked or has any holes. Everything looks fine so it has to be the gas. It did sit through a colder winter and my 96 impala wouldn't start at all on a cold day after I put Citgo premium in there. Had to get some BP in there in order for it to start so it's likely this is my problem now.

      Gonna try again tomorrow!
      It's hard to troubleshoot in person let alone long distance but I guess bad gas could be a factor. I guess the gas could be bad without causing a fault to show up.

      My Scirocco died across town the last time I drove it and I am positive it's because of fuel systems problems. It sat for over 20 years and was only started about a dozen times over that whole time.

      Sta-Bil is a well-known brand of fuel conditioner for storage and I read somewhere the marine version is the best to buy. Heat is a brand of gas line drier. I think the more Ethanol that gets added to gasoline, the more of these products will be needed and the more that will be developed.

      Did you try new plugs yet? If there are cheap plugs for the 4.2, you could try those first. My Scirocco was the car that had fouled plugs and that was when it was under warrantee. The stock plugs for it are like $10.00 a piece at the dealer. I bought some cheap-o plugs to run until it behaves itself. I think it almost fouled out the last set of OEM plugs I bought it, so I removed them and installed the cheapest plugs I could find.

      Since you are going to work on the air filters, did you read the thread on them? It's highly unlikely that they could be clogged enough to keep the car from starting but it's another thing to check off the list. It's probably due for new filters anyway.

    14. Member
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      03-16-2019 09:31 PM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by Shyheim103 View Post
      Exactly. The transmission gives me pause and also that knock/pulse when braking. I think it's the wheels honestly, but it could be something else dealing with a control arm or wishbone or something.

      It's an 04 and I had no idea! Learn something new everyday.

      The wood is cracked. Not all over the place but it ain't mint condition. My V8 is a 10/10 compared to this one. There's also a little rattle when it starts coming from the engine. It's brief and lasts for about 2 seconds or so right after the engine starts. That also gave me pause but then I read that the V8's do it too sometimes and it's normal.
      I would like to own a 2005 or 2006 just to have the soft close doors. 7579 has almost perfect wood. It has a tiny hairline crack in the wood around the left cupholder on the console. 8486 has cracks on the clock cover and the wood above the glove box. Lots of cracks.

      To "fix" the wood you either have to get it restored by a specialist or buy a whole Phaeton full of wood. Replacing individual pieces doesn't work especially with burled wood. It's bookmatched. I bought separate pieces from the same eBay seller at the same time (OK a few days apart) and those parts didn't line up with each other much less the wood in the car. You might be able to order individual pieces from the dealer using the VIN if the factory kept records of which wood was used. If you did that though, the replacement wood pieces would cost more than the whole car.

    15. 03-16-2019 11:33 PM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by lectricman View Post
      Check out his ads in the Vortex Marketplace. It's possible that this was his other W12 that he wasn't selling at the time.

      https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...00-Minneapolis
      https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...es-Minneapolis

      Ha! I already dug and found him and the links but thanks though! I've done some extensive research on this and now I'm reconsidering passing it up. Some of the things that were messed up with the car seem to actually have been there since he had it but have just gotten worse. Like the paint chipping on the bumper, etc. I haven't read anyone having tranny issues on a W12 and it wasn't catastrophic though. There's also no telling what that clunking/pulsating is when driving and stopping.

      My plan was never to keep the car long. I have a V8 and wanted to do a YouTube series on the two together. Then I'd sell them. For that I'm thinking it might be worth the risk. Comparing the two and going through all their differences and features, etc.

    16. 03-16-2019 11:39 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN View Post
      I would like to own a 2005 or 2006 just to have the soft close doors. 7579 has almost perfect wood. It has a tiny hairline crack in the wood around the left cupholder on the console. 8486 has cracks on the clock cover and the wood above the glove box. Lots of cracks.

      To "fix" the wood you either have to get it restored by a specialist or buy a whole Phaeton full of wood. Replacing individual pieces doesn't work especially with burled wood. It's bookmatched. I bought separate pieces from the same eBay seller at the same time (OK a few days apart) and those parts didn't line up with each other much less the wood in the car. You might be able to order individual pieces from the dealer using the VIN if the factory kept records of which wood was used. If you did that though, the replacement wood pieces would cost more than the whole car.

      yeah, I'd just live with the cracked wood. I noticed my V8 has cracked wood as well on the driver's side door. A long hairline crack. My Lexus LS430's steering wheel is all cracked up from Puerto Rico heat. My LX470 was just as bad but I got a free replacement for that one even though the wood doesn't really match.

      As far as getting replacements, aw man tell me about it! I bought a replacement piece for my LS430 and just like you said, it didn't match up at all. You can tell it's the same color but that pattern is just way off, ugh. I can't get used to it.

    17. 03-16-2019 11:45 PM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN View Post
      It's hard to troubleshoot in person let alone long distance but I guess bad gas could be a factor. I guess the gas could be bad without causing a fault to show up.

      My Scirocco died across town the last time I drove it and I am positive it's because of fuel systems problems. It sat for over 20 years and was only started about a dozen times over that whole time.

      Sta-Bil is a well-known brand of fuel conditioner for storage and I read somewhere the marine version is the best to buy. Heat is a brand of gas line drier. I think the more Ethanol that gets added to gasoline, the more of these products will be needed and the more that will be developed.

      Did you try new plugs yet? If there are cheap plugs for the 4.2, you could try those first. My Scirocco was the car that had fouled plugs and that was when it was under warrantee. The stock plugs for it are like $10.00 a piece at the dealer. I bought some cheap-o plugs to run until it behaves itself. I think it almost fouled out the last set of OEM plugs I bought it, so I removed them and installed the cheapest plugs I could find.

      Since you are going to work on the air filters, did you read the thread on them? It's highly unlikely that they could be clogged enough to keep the car from starting but it's another thing to check off the list. It's probably due for new filters anyway.
      The only reason I'm ruling out plugs is because the car was in an accident. So they were driving it fine. As for the air filters, the intake portion after the filters had been removed and dirt and leaves were all in there. Probably from normal driving but I've had them off for a bit so I want to be a little anal.

      The only thing i can think of is the fuel since it's the only thing that looks out of place with the inside of the fuel door being so murky looking. It's gross! Also, when I put 2 gallons of fresh 93 in there, the car stuttered a little more than usual while it was cranking, then went back to it's quick pulse before going back to cranking. I also just read something on this forum from people saying that they put regular in the tank. Non-ethanol regular, but maybe this person made the mistake and put regular, or some cheap gas with a ton of ethanol in it and from it sitting a couple of months and getting cold then hot, cold, then warm outside, it might've caused quite a bit of condensation and the lines are mostly water now.

      So that's the theory. If this fails I'm having it towed somewhere. At least it goes into neutral no problem now.

      Oh and as for the soft close doors... meh. Problem with them is only you really know. I haven't even driven the car yet and everyone who has interacted with it did what? Slammed the doors

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      03-17-2019 12:02 AM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by Shyheim103 View Post
      Oh and as for the soft close doors... meh. Problem with them is only you really know. I haven't even driven the car yet and everyone who has interacted with it did what? Slammed the doors
      That sucks. I had to train my GF not to slam the door. Even if you close the doors "normally" you hear the door panel rattling. It's probably just the storage pocket side moving but it's still unnerving. Probably 90% of the time the doors will just shut completely if you just let them go from half open. On my other VWs you have to shut the doors firmly.

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      03-17-2019 12:14 AM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by Shyheim103 View Post
      Oh and as for the soft close doors... meh. Problem with them is only you really know. I haven't even driven the car yet and everyone who has interacted with it did what? Slammed the doors
      Do the doors suck themselves closed? If they do that, you could demonstrate for anybody who might be around it or may need to open or close the doors. Blow their minds.

      I had a tire shop guy try to slam my trunk lid closed. I had to show him that it had a button that magically closed the lid. Of course, now every mini van does that. It's not like they have to learn a new skill. He's the only person who interacted with my trunk lid besides me or the VW dealer techs. I saw hand prints on my trunk lid one time picking it up from the dealer so not every tech there got the memo.

    20. Yesterday 12:33 AM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN View Post
      That sucks. I had to train my GF not to slam the door. Even if you close the doors "normally" you hear the door panel rattling. It's probably just the storage pocket side moving but it's still unnerving. Probably 90% of the time the doors will just shut completely if you just let them go from half open. On my other VWs you have to shut the doors firmly.
      Yeah, I think it's the storage pocket because mine don't rattle, just a solid thump sound. And you're right, the doors are so heavy they just shut by themselves! Sometimes I wonder if that's doing damage or not but I don't think so. I noticed today that it knows when it's fully clicked and doesn't try. My old 750Li didn't do that, it seemed to keep going if you shut it. I want to say my CL550 did to, but that was so long ago I didn't keep either car long at all.

      As for the training, that gets old! LOL, a dissertation for everyone that gets in the car and they always forget and I can't blame them if they aren't used to it.

      Quote Originally Posted by 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN View Post
      Do the doors suck themselves closed? If they do that, you could demonstrate for anybody who might be around it or may need to open or close the doors. Blow their minds.

      I had a tire shop guy try to slam my trunk lid closed. I had to show him that it had a button that magically closed the lid. Of course, now every mini van does that. It's not like they have to learn a new skill. He's the only person who interacted with my trunk lid besides me or the VW dealer techs. I saw hand prints on my trunk lid one time picking it up from the dealer so not every tech there got the memo.
      Yep! That's exactly how they work, you just lightly push the door close to the body of the car and the car just pulls the door in. Yep, it's crazy how these techs deal with the cars. I'd rather do the work myself, but as I get older I care less and less about being under a car tinkering with it. We just bought a new Tundra and these guys put the license plate bracket on wrong left a hole in the front bumper. We noticed it as soon as we got home from the dealership. I texted the salesman a pic of the damage immediately and he's acting like we did it, lol. Anyway, they're ordering a new bumper cap but sheesh! If you can't do that right...

    21. Yesterday 12:53 AM #20
      Alright so today I had some progress. I haven't really done much to the car. Just added gas... A LOT, A LOT of gas. Here's what the car was sounding like at first: https://youtu.be/DUtm8C0hglM

      Here's what it sounded like after adding lots of gas, starter fluid, and some gas treatment (although that needs to sit for a while to get rid of some of the water if it does what it says): https://youtu.be/ncLQ0d98RxU

      Here is what the gas tank lid looks like.... that's mold you're lookin at.

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