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    Thread: Daily driver search. EP3 Civic SI or ????

    1. Member jaydub's Avatar
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      03-28-2019 12:12 PM #26
      The thing I found aggravating about my EP3 when I owned it was the lack of an armrest. Yes, the dash-mounted gearshift is novel, but there's nowhere to rest your arm. Is it a minor issue? Sure, but driving 25 min each way to work became tiring.

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    3. 03-28-2019 12:14 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by nyexx View Post
      $6500 buys a very clean semi low mileage 2nd gen Mazda 3 Hatch. Reliability is excellent and it’s a way better car.
      Way more rusty tooespecially in NY

    4. Member 88c900t's Avatar
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      03-28-2019 12:30 PM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by ohiodub_99.5 View Post
      lol... OP wants reliability...and you suggest that?
      When I was pondering an early R58, everyone said that later R55s are much more reliable.
      Typical forum guy with busted third-hand cars.
      Quote Originally Posted by Kiyokix View Post
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      Quote Originally Posted by l88m22vette View Post
      88c900t wins again, you really ****ing crush it at listing a ton of cheap options
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      03-28-2019 12:42 PM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by jaydub View Post
      The thing I found aggravating about my EP3 when I owned it was the lack of an armrest. Yes, the dash-mounted gearshift is novel, but there's nowhere to rest your arm. Is it a minor issue? Sure, but driving 25 min each way to work became tiring.
      I always find this comment funny. How heavy is your arm?

      It's not like you have to shift constantly, so you arm can rest in other positions. Or you can just hold the wheel with two hands.

      People have made a similar complaint about the NC miata, and how the cup holder cover isnt padded. I have had mine near two years and never rested my arm on the cover, or thought the lack of a traditional armrest was an issue.

      Maybe its because the first couple cars I owned didn't have one, or something.

    6. Member nyexx's Avatar
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      03-28-2019 12:44 PM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by ImpeccableNEW View Post
      Way more rusty tooespecially in NY
      You’re funny. I owned a 2nd gen Mazda 3 and at 9 years it was holding together just fine. 2nd gen Mazda 3s don’t have rust issues.

      The fact that you think any 14-15 year old Honda in NY would have less rust than a 8-9 year old Mazda 3 doesn’t make sense to me.

    7. Member jaydub's Avatar
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      03-28-2019 01:53 PM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by dunhamjr View Post
      I always find this comment funny. How heavy is your arm?

      It's not like you have to shift constantly, so you arm can rest in other positions. Or you can just hold the wheel with two hands.

      People have made a similar complaint about the NC miata, and how the cup holder cover isnt padded. I have had mine near two years and never rested my arm on the cover, or thought the lack of a traditional armrest was an issue.

      Maybe its because the first couple cars I owned didn't have one, or something.
      Like I said, it's a petty complaint! The EP3 was a little odd ergonomically, and given that I had the car new nearly 18 years ago, my arm is substantially heavier now than it was back then!

    8. Member Stevo12's Avatar
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      03-28-2019 02:29 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by ImpeccableNEW View Post
      Way more rusty tooespecially in NY
      Surprised that it took this long to make rusty Mazda jokes

      Shameless plug: we’re selling our 2013 Mazda3 hatch. No rust, 6-speed. Nyexx’s $6500 price was spot on with what we’re asking.

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      03-28-2019 02:41 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by geofftii2002 View Post
      So what you're saying is buy a car for $11K and "slap" another $5K worth of parts on it?
      I'm just projecting what I would do. Realistically he could just leave it bone stock and have a great daily.

    10. Member geofftii2002's Avatar
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      03-28-2019 02:47 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by Tokyosmash View Post
      SVT Focus was a better car back then, still is

      I loved mine. 'Cept for the gearbox that grenaded itself. They're out there and they're dirt cheap, too... not a fast car, but loads of fun to drive and comfy with the EAP Recaro seats. Plus an in-dash CD changer!
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      03-28-2019 03:02 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by dunhamjr View Post
      Burning up backroads maybe, but not in the driving the OP is talking about doing.

      "I spend about 40% of my time on city streets and 20% in the suburbs with the rest being on the highway. I'm probably stuck in some sort of traffic 50-60% of the time."

      My lightly modded NC Miata is fun as fcuk to rip through the gears, etc.
      9 months ago my commute went from 8 miles to 32 miles. It's ok to commute, but the 'fun aspects' wear thin when you are stuck in stop and go traffic constantly clutching in and out of 1st and 2nd gears, or just plain stuck in a traffic train doing 35-45mph with no need to change gears.
      What you're describing has nothing to do with the gear spacing and everything to do with general MT vs AT debates. My next car will be an automatic for sure.
      I like bikes.
      Gone: 2010 VW GTI

    12. Member johnny_p's Avatar
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      03-28-2019 03:04 PM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by nyexx View Post
      You’re funny. I owned a 2nd gen Mazda 3 and at 9 years it was holding together just fine. 2nd gen Mazda 3s don’t have rust issues.

      The fact that you think any 14-15 year old Honda in NY would have less rust than a 8-9 year old Mazda 3 doesn’t make sense to me.
      Didn't they sort out the rust problems around 2012 or something? I think the 2nd gens are probably as good as any other car as far as rust protection is concerned.
      I like bikes.
      Gone: 2010 VW GTI

    13. Member kenny301's Avatar
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      03-28-2019 03:06 PM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      I'm seeing MK7 1.8Ts for as low as $11K. Get a 5MT, slap on a Neuspeed Cup kit and some decent tires/brakes, APR tune. They have proven to be reliable and will be so much nicer to live with than an EP3. Civics only became livable with the current gen which is still $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

      I hadn't considered the Golf, not really sure why. Looking at Auto Trader, it seems that around 80% of the manual Golfs in 50 miles of me are TDIs with a lot of them being MKVIs. There are two or three SELs kicking around but they are priced around 15k and have the pleather interior (ew).

      Quote Originally Posted by n0rdicalex. View Post
      the current lease offer for 2019 GTI is quite tempting:
      I hadn't considered leasing but with the amount I could throw down on a new GTI, my monthly would be around $250-275 for 60mo provided the pricing I've been seeing is legit.

      Quote Originally Posted by 88c900t View Post
      If you want an Si, get an 8th gen. Also Civics in general tend to have weak AC and high road noise.



      I actually agree with you for once. The MK7 Golf is a great daily if you can do without the fancy stuff (the OP is considering a 7G Si so that's a given) and don't mind the ancient 5 speed manual.

      Also, you can get a used MK7 GTI for about 16K now. Or some FieSTas for as little as 12K.
      Reminds me of my Legacy. I had to turn off the AC and down shift to get up big hills on the highway. I'll have to look into the Fiesta but that might be a little too small.

      Quote Originally Posted by Claff View Post
      Bought a 2002 EP3 for commuter use in early 2014, sold it in early 2017. I think it had 120K on it when we got it, box stock. Only things that needed fixing under my ownership was passenger side lock actuator, front sway bar end links, idler pulley, and clutch.

      Sold the car when the wife had to have her ankle operated on and needed to have an automatic transmission.

      The car was quite reliable. The clutch was already fairly tired when we got it so it wasn't a surprise that it would need replacement at some point. Idler pulley gave plenty of warning that it was going bad so it didn't leave me stranded.

      I never modified the car. I had a set of lowering springs but many friends warned me that the car has some unique front suspension design that would not react well to lowering. I don't recall details but respected their opinion and abandoned plans to lower it.

      On our car, the most maddening thing was balky shifter linkage or who knows what that would occasionally refuse to go into reverse. Only seemed to happen when I was in a hurry or trying to sell the car.

      Highway revs were fairly high and mileage not great, but neither came as a surprise. Ride was comfortable and not particularly sporty considering it was a Si. The car did not feel light but that might just be me spoiled by what else I drove regularly.

      I imagine there's a very small sweet spot of EP3s nowadays that are not used up and not overpriced. I don't see many these days on the road but it's not like they made a ton to begin with and the newest ones are now 15 years old.

      Summary: ours treated us well, I enjoyed it while we had it, but I don't have to have another one.

      Every Subaru I've owned is very picky about going into reverse. I never experienced this issue with any other manual I've owned. I did read about the interesting suspension design choices. It can be fixed with bushings and ball joints that move some of the pivot points but that is more money just to bring it to on par with how it should have been factory. I've also read that the EP3s suffer from bump steer even stock, but I only found one source on that.


      Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Hatch View Post
      I daily drove one from 2013 -2010 and it was probably one of the worst cars I have ever owned. Sure it was reliable, but it was slow, especially when you run the AC. Adding a Type S lower sway bar makes the car handle a lot better, but if you lower it, you are rewarded with a noisy steering and wonderful clunking sounds. The car, like most Hondas has a lot of road noise and the stock stereo is awful. I did like the seats on that car, but after 7 years and a 120K miles they don't age that well.

      For fuel economy I averaged about 25-30MPG, which isn't horrible since you can put regular fuel in it. For highway driving, I did think this car could have had a sixth gear or a longer 5th.

      The good thing about the car is, it's pretty reliable, easy to work on, is pretty spacious on the inside for it's size and it's easy to toss a K24 or K20A in it, which makes it a lot more fun to drive.

      If you like them and if the one you are looking at is stock and you don't mind the rid, then go for it. I just think they haven't aged well and looking back it's a what was I thinking car.
      The ride may indeed be an issue. The roads are AWFUL around here right now and are usually kinda poor. They had to lower the speed limit on one stretch of highway to 40mph because it is so bad and in the last week I've seen three cars stopped in the middle of the road with broken suspension bits. I would like to say that I'd swap in another engine but to be honest, I'd never get around to it.

    14. Member Stevo12's Avatar
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      03-28-2019 03:16 PM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by johnny_p View Post
      Didn't they sort out the rust problems around 2012 or something? I think the 2nd gens are probably as good as any other car as far as rust protection is concerned.
      Yes, before that even.

      They’ve been much improved since about 2007, mid way through the first gen (facelift 1st-gens if you will).

      My old neighbor still drives the ‘07 3 that he’s owned since new (only has about 130K on it) but I worked on the brakes on that car last year, and it was surprisingly easy to work on from a rust perspective. It’s not perfect (it was still 11 years old) but the body is rust free and the suspension/brakes only had typical surface corrosion.

      Another co-worker had an ‘07 or ‘08 (can’t remember) with high miles, again similar story - no body rot.

      Even on the 1st gen Speed3 side, a couple other friends daily(ed) them - one example was pristine but unfortunately was the victim of a felled tree during a tornado; but the other one is still kicking around - and again, rot free - even with over 150K on the clock.

      And as a comparison, the early 1st-gen 3 rotboxes started showing within 5 years, so these 10+ year old examples that still aren’t showing any signs of rust, says to me that they’ve improved.

    15. Member 88c900t's Avatar
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      03-28-2019 03:17 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by kenny301 View Post

      Reminds me of my Legacy. I had to turn off the AC and down shift to get up big hills on the highway. I'll have to look into the Fiesta but that might be a little too small.
      As far as the Golf 7, only the S and the base "launch edition" have a manual (the old 5 speed) with the 1.8T. Same with the early MK7 sportwagens, if you want an SE or SEL you have to get an auto or a diesel. It's puzzling that VW gave the diesel the good transmission, but not the 1.8t.

      The Fiesta's base seats are pretty unsupportive, so you might want the recaros if you are trim enough to fit in them. But I wouldn't be concerened about them being too small if you are considering the EP3, and regardless they are a blast to drive.
      Typical forum guy with busted third-hand cars.
      Quote Originally Posted by Kiyokix View Post
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      Quote Originally Posted by l88m22vette View Post
      88c900t wins again, you really ****ing crush it at listing a ton of cheap options
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    16. Member kenny301's Avatar
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      03-28-2019 03:18 PM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by jaydub View Post
      The thing I found aggravating about my EP3 when I owned it was the lack of an armrest. Yes, the dash-mounted gearshift is novel, but there's nowhere to rest your arm. Is it a minor issue? Sure, but driving 25 min each way to work became tiring.
      Quote Originally Posted by dunhamjr View Post
      I always find this comment funny. How heavy is your arm?

      It's not like you have to shift constantly, so you arm can rest in other positions. Or you can just hold the wheel with two hands.

      People have made a similar complaint about the NC miata, and how the cup holder cover isnt padded. I have had mine near two years and never rested my arm on the cover, or thought the lack of a traditional armrest was an issue.

      Maybe its because the first couple cars I owned didn't have one, or something.
      Quote Originally Posted by johnny_p View Post
      What you're describing has nothing to do with the gear spacing and everything to do with general MT vs AT debates. My next car will be an automatic for sure.

      I'm constantly shifting even in my Forester. I rarely make it to fourth gear and spend little time in third until I'm out of the city or I'm on the roads after 10pm. So, constant 1st->2nd shifts and back shifting. It usually takes me 45mins to an hour to make the ~11mi drive to work on days where I don't bike or take public transit. My arm never gets tired but then again, I have an armrest to help me out and the shifter isn't on the dash.

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      03-28-2019 03:26 PM #41
      Would you consider an automatic? I think you might be able to find a used 3 or Golf with adaptive cruise control that will take over completely in stop and go traffic. Yea you'd lose stickshift but honestly in your situation it almost doesn't seem worth the hassle.

    18. Member Tokyosmash's Avatar
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      03-28-2019 03:54 PM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by geofftii2002 View Post
      I loved mine. 'Cept for the gearbox that grenaded itself. They're out there and they're dirt cheap, too... not a fast car, but loads of fun to drive and comfy with the EAP Recaro seats. Plus an in-dash CD changer!
      Same Getrag as in your Mini

    19. Member chois's Avatar
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      03-28-2019 05:54 PM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by geofftii2002 View Post
      So what you're saying is buy a car for $11K and "slap" another $5K worth of parts on it?
      Which makes a MkVII GTI seem more logical.
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    20. 03-28-2019 05:59 PM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by Stevo12 View Post
      Surprised that it took this long to make rusty Mazda jokes

      Shameless plug: we’re selling our 2013 Mazda3 hatch. No rust, 6-speed. Nyexx’s $6500 price was spot on with what we’re asking.
      If I had another $1500, I'd be on my way to you right now


      VW golf 2.5?

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      03-28-2019 09:27 PM #45
      I owned one for a few years and put around 90,000 miles on it. I'll add to what the others have written. There are many good features about the car, but there were some things about it that became annoying too. The turning circle was terrible. A three point turn can quickly become a four point turn depending on the situation. The gearing was short, but wasn't bad. I averaged 28 mpg mixed. I didn't like the on-center steering feel and was vague, but overall weighted nicely.

      The suspension was mentioned earlier. It's not special unto itself and uses same/similar parts as the RSX and Civic siblings. I think the issue is the angle of the steering rack and arms as they relate to the strut. Often guys will flip the tie rod end to relieve some of the issues. I replaced the suspension with some RSX parts with only a little machine work.

      Overall good cars, but condsider other hatchbacks too.
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      03-28-2019 10:08 PM #46
      The EP3 is super reliable with normal maintenance. My mom has my old one with 160k+ on it. It needed an A/C compressor when I had it (Honda paid for half as it was a few years out of warranty) and then nothing until it was about 12 years old when it got an idler pulley and a radiator. A few months ago, at 16+ years old, it got front struts since they were leaking and starting to make noise. That's it aside from a set of brakes, tires, a few batteries and bulbs and stuff like plugs, fluids (trans, coolant, brake) and filters. The original clutch is still fine and grabs hard despite having a really hard life while I owned it.

      It is a great car if you have good roads with elevation changes but not that fun here in the city where it is flat and straight and potholed. I loved it back east but wasn't as much of a fan of it here in Texas. The A/C can't deal with 95 degree temperatures and it turns 4100 at 80 MPH and like 4500 at 85. It has amazing in-gear power since it cruises right on the torque peak but only gets about 27-28 MPG. Despite having VTEC-Lite it pulled hard right into the 7100 RPM fuel cut and mine cruised smoothly at 120 MPH the few times I took it through Mexico. I loved the engine - one of the most flexible I have ever driven, good torque right off idle (the torque curve is essentially flat).

      Mine pulled timing in hot weather on regular gas -- felt like very slight hesitation/bucking if I gave it a lot of gas at low revs, like flooring it in 2nd at 15 MPH after making a rolling right turn. I put midgrade in it most of the time and premium when it was very hot and it stopped doing it.

      It is very sensitive to tire quality due to the firm/tight suspension. If you drive one that has cheap/soft sidewall tires on it, it will wander all over the place and feel like a Buick Century. It needs a low-profile, high-quality, stiff, V-rated or higher tire to feel right. My mom's has some basic Falkens on it right now and it is fine for her but it feels rolly and soft to me.
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      03-28-2019 10:25 PM #47
      I had a EP3 for a few months and was very disappointed. It had the worst ride quality of any car that I ever owned and was not modified or slammed...NYC area roads just punished my ass in that thing.

      The gearing sucks on the highway and engine is very flat. I wanted to like the car, but it got on my nerves very quickly and sold at a loss to be done with it.

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      03-29-2019 10:13 AM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by Tokyosmash View Post
      Same Getrag as in your Mini

      Yet strangely more prone to failure in the Focus, I knew of several people who lost gearboxes, many of whom weren't beating the crap out the car either. And parts were unavailable from Ford for rebuilding them - they only wanted to sell you a complete 'box for basically what the car was worth.
      I spend my days in a 70,000 sq ft wonderland www.hymanltd.com

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      03-29-2019 10:46 AM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by geofftii2002 View Post
      Yet strangely more prone to failure in the Focus, I knew of several people who lost gearboxes, many of whom weren't beating the crap out the car either. And parts were unavailable from Ford for rebuilding them - they only wanted to sell you a complete 'box for basically what the car was worth.
      There’s a reason so many people are such fans of swapping the MTX75 5 speed out of the regular Foci in to them. Will go that route eventually.

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      03-29-2019 11:18 AM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by ohiodub_99.5 View Post
      lol... OP wants reliability...and you suggest that?
      Yep had one for two years never needed service. 2013 S before they got ugly.

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