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    Thread: I'm considering buying a used EV. If you own one, talk to me.

    1. Member 2 doors's Avatar
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      05-09-2019 02:06 PM #51
      Quote Originally Posted by rloewy View Post
      We are not too far from the coast - so the number of really hot days is rather small, especially as this is my wife's car and it is parked in the shade during the work week. As I said, we have seen none of this with the Kia so far. I honestly can not tell you if this is true for all e-Golfs of that generation or if the newer ones that came in 2018 with the extended range have the same chemistry - but ours was better than expected in the fun to drive department but worse than expected in the durability and interior quality.
      Sorry you had a bad experience. We leased a 2016 SE e-Golf. Our lease was up last October and we bought it out. Just rolled 35k on it. The only issue we have with the interior is the seats show water stains really easily. Everything else about it seems fine. Our battery may have degraded some, but not enough that I noticed. Both my wife and I love driving it.

      I agree with you on the good deals after dieselgate. We got the cheap lease special, the $1000 VW loyalty cash and a $3000 check from the state of MD. We're into the whole thing for about $20k. The 2018's with better range weren't available when our lease was up, and even if they were, the cheap lease was gone and all the Model 3 buyers sucked up all the state money. That's why we decided to buy it out. I have resolved myself to the fact that when it's done, it will be sold for scrap value. I just hope that I can get another 5 years out of it first.


      To the OP - sounds like you've got it figured out on the Leaf. I say go for it! Our e-Golf has a 3.6kW on board charger, so it wouldn't meet your needs (you need the SEL or the brand new ones to get the 7.2kW) There have been very rare occasions where we had to leave the EV home and take a gas car because it wasn't charged in time.

      As for the Focus EV, I looked at it, but one look in the trunk and I was done with it. Our e-Golf gives up nothing to a regular Golf's functionality. It's a weekly commuter with one parent and 2 kids 5 days a week and the family grocery getter and runabout on the weekends.

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    3. Member Crispyfritter's Avatar
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      05-09-2019 02:10 PM #52
      I really don't understand all the hate on the LEAF. Ours was a 2013, it drove wonderfully, had comfortable seats, was whisper quiet and felt a lot more expensive than it was. The killer lease deal got me into it, and I'd still have it today if I didn't live where I live.

      Chris
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      05-09-2019 02:17 PM #53
      Quote Originally Posted by 2 doors View Post
      Sorry you had a bad experience. We leased a 2016 SE e-Golf. Our lease was up last October and we bought it out. Just rolled 35k on it. The only issue we have with the interior is the seats show water stains really easily.
      I am glad your is working better than ours did - it is a surprisingly good fun car to drive. Our cars also had the water stains issue - and the trim around the 'shifter' cracked almost immediately to the point that my wife had to duct tape it as it was cutting her. I also think that at least the 2015 had an awful navigation system - you could not have it talk to you unless the radio volume was up which was a pretty bad UX design.

    5. Member ohiodub_99.5's Avatar
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      05-09-2019 03:19 PM #54
      Quote Originally Posted by zmt2 View Post
      It'll front facing no problem, we never tried rear facing though. The suicide doors make it kinda complicated to get the little ones in and out, but no B pillar makes things easier sometimes too so... *shrug*

      we have a 5 year old and a 3 year old and it's our around town car 95% of the time as a family. AC is a bit weak in TX unless you fight it's eco-mindedness, but that's really the only complaint.

      I don't know if there are any years to avoid, mine's a 1st year car and I haven't had any major issues. I will say that the most complaints I see from the FB group and other owners is are related to the REX, BEV owner complaints are far less common.
      Thanks for that insight... the suicide door thing doesnt really bother me, i kinda like it... and i'd usually be the only one in the car with the kid so the passenger seat would stay pretty far forward at all times, and my wife is short...

      might be a dumb question, but do the front seats have any sort of flip-forward function like a normal hatch back seat would for better entry/exit/access to the rear seats? every picture i see you cant really tell... im assuming its in a fixed position unless adjusted out of the way with the adjustment levers...
      /| OMGHAI |\

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      05-09-2019 05:22 PM #55
      Quote Originally Posted by ohiodub_99.5 View Post
      Thanks for that insight... the suicide door thing doesnt really bother me, i kinda like it... and i'd usually be the only one in the car with the kid so the passenger seat would stay pretty far forward at all times, and my wife is short...

      might be a dumb question, but do the front seats have any sort of flip-forward function like a normal hatch back seat would for better entry/exit/access to the rear seats? every picture i see you cant really tell... im assuming its in a fixed position unless adjusted out of the way with the adjustment levers...


      iirc it only modifies the tilt and not the base, but there's that.

      The suicide door thing is honestly a real concern in parking lots. It creates a triangle in which you need to maneuver yourself and your kid, and it's not really big enough for the both of you (usually). You can live with it, but it's definitely less convenient. Otherwise at least with our front facing seats we've never run into any concerns with interior space.

    7. Member ohiodub_99.5's Avatar
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      05-09-2019 10:26 PM #56
      Quote Originally Posted by zmt2 View Post


      iirc it only modifies the tilt and not the base, but there's that.

      The suicide door thing is honestly a real concern in parking lots. It creates a triangle in which you need to maneuver yourself and your kid, and it's not really big enough for the both of you (usually). You can live with it, but it's definitely less convenient. Otherwise at least with our front facing seats we've never run into any concerns with interior space.
      Ok, awesome. Exactly what I was wondering. Thanks ... I honestly have no experience with the i3 aside from seeing a couple on the road. I guess I’m gonna have to actually go an check one out in person and see if it’s something I’d want....some reason they have recently come on my radar while looking for something to replace my MINI, especially with my short commute it might make sense to go EV since we just bought a Tiguan that can handle road trip duty.
      /| OMGHAI |\

    8. 05-10-2019 02:57 AM #57
      Quote Originally Posted by Crispyfritter View Post
      I really don't understand all the hate on the LEAF.
      Me, neither. It's a well-rounded vehicle that has a lot going for it. Worse case, just make sure the one you buy has a battery which hadn't degraded much.

      In other news, I've decided that the forthcoming 220v outlet I need to install in my garage will have a NEMA 14-50 style plug. Then I'll buy a (portable) EVSE station to match.
      Dempsey Bowling
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    9. Member Unilateral Phase Detractor's Avatar
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      05-10-2019 10:20 AM #58
      Quote Originally Posted by TurboMinivan View Post
      In other news, I've decided that the forthcoming 220v outlet I need to install in my garage will have a NEMA 14-50 style plug. Then I'll buy a (portable) EVSE station to match.
      Good choice. Those work at pretty much any campground should you need to fill up in the sticks.

      If I were buying an EVSE today, it would be the ClipperCreek LCS-30P: https://store.clippercreek.com/level...30p-nema-14-50

      Very compact for transporting, but gets you nearly the full charging power (5.8 kw). You can also get adapters if you need to plug it in a NEMA 14-30 in a pinch. The 24 amps is still safe on a 30 amp outlet.


    10. Member Blue-Civic-Hybrid's Avatar
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      05-10-2019 11:07 AM #59
      Here are my experiences from buying a used 2013 Leaf here in San Diego and using it for 3 years...

      1. Bought a used Leaf with 20k miles on it for $9500, but an insurance payout on a wrecked previous vehicle paid $8k into this price, so total investment into the Leaf was $1500. Then I installed a high power Clipper Creek charger (32 or 40 Amp) in my garage for a total of $900. So grand total into the vehicle/charger and the first foray into an electric vehicle = $2500 all in approximately...

      2. Used that Leaf like an appliance for 3 years, total maintenance costs over 3 years of 7 day a week daily driving = $200 for a pair of tires. At around 65K miles, I lost 1 bar of SOC for that car. Still had 11 bars of SOC for the battery. Also did a monthly electric bill cost increase which equaled out to $40 a month to drive the Leaf 7 days a week.

      3. Traded in the Leaf at Carmax, they gave me $5k for it. Roughly around 72k miles on it when I sold.

      4. Bought a new 2018 Tesla Model 3 AWD extended range and it's the most amazing vehicle I have ever owned. Stupid fast, corners like a maniac and embarrasses V-8's like red-headed step children. I love my Tesla so much, I'm waiting for the Tesla Pickup truck to come out and I will get one of those. Or perhaps a used Model S P85+...
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    11. Senior Member
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      05-10-2019 12:20 PM #60
      The instant torque is addictive, for sure, as is the total lack of drama from a launch.

      One of the most surreal experiences I've had was a P100D in Ludicrous Mode from a dig. No noise, no tire murder, no axle tramp or rear end stepping out under acceleration. Just brutal acceleration. I think I read that it can pull 1.3 G under those conditions, and I fully believe it.

    12. 05-10-2019 02:06 PM #61
      Quote Originally Posted by Blue-Civic-Hybrid View Post
      Here are my experiences from buying a used 2013 Leaf here in San Diego and using it for 3 years...
      Wow, thanks for sharing your experience. Question: how old was your Leaf when you bought it? I saw you mention the miles and model year, but I don't know when you actually acquired it. And which trim level was it?
      Dempsey Bowling
      Sales Consultant at Doug Smith Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep/Ram/Subaru/Kia/used
      My fleet: 91 Miata (5.0L swap project), 98 Wrangler Sport, 01 Suburban 2500 8.1L, 80 Grand Prix LJ 454, 86 GLHS #75, 13 Leaf SV

    13. Member Blue-Civic-Hybrid's Avatar
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      05-10-2019 03:12 PM #62
      Quote Originally Posted by TurboMinivan View Post
      Wow, thanks for sharing your experience. Question: how old was your Leaf when you bought it? I saw you mention the miles and model year, but I don't know when you actually acquired it. And which trim level was it?
      I bought it around the end of 2015 and it was the SV model (I think), had the fast DC charging, heated seats and steering wheel.
      82 Caddy diesel

    14. Member Goat's Avatar
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      05-10-2019 10:42 PM #63
      Anyone here have experience with the A3 e tron phev? Dsg and the pretty a3 interior / exterior is a plus. I also really like the ELR. I’m about to move and have a 15 mile commute (extra urban type drive cycle) so I don’t really need a phev. I don’t like any of the cheap bev options and I have 2 cars and a truck I can drive as well, so should I skip the hybrids all together?
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    15. Senior Member Wimbledon's Avatar
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      05-10-2019 11:05 PM #64
      Quote Originally Posted by Goat View Post
      Anyone here have experience with the A3 e tron phev? Dsg and the pretty a3 interior / exterior is a plus. I also really like the ELR. I’m about to move and have a 15 mile commute (extra urban type drive cycle) so I don’t really need a phev. I don’t like any of the cheap bev options and I have 2 cars and a truck I can drive as well, so should I skip the hybrids all together?
      Have you driven a BEV yet? They're fun to drive. You're an ideal candidate for a BEV with a fleet of vehicles and an urban commute.
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    16. Member what's Avatar
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      05-10-2019 11:18 PM #65
      Quote Originally Posted by rloewy View Post
      We had a 2015 for 3 years, between 2015 to 2018. It lost 30% of the range in these 3 years. We are near San Diego - so the weather should be pretty friendly for EVs.

      The Model 3 was not out when we returned our lease, the e-Golf lease price has doubled compared to our early one and my wife hated the Bolt's seats - so she decided to get another EV lease as cheap as possible to tide her over until the next one - she got the 111 miles range Soul EV - it is a soul-less appliance, but it has shown no battery degradation so far (almost 15K miles, we returned the Golf with 30K miles on it) and seems to be built much better than our e-Golf was. It was also comically cheap to lease - not an inspiring car - but a damn good one and a great value for the money.
      There was something wrong with you car. My e-golf battery degradation was not noticeable over 3 years and 31k miles and other than the engine start button stabbing me, the interior was fine.

      I'm also in a valley where it gets to 100-110 regularly in the summer and would routinely take the car down to minimal charge levels.
      how come a transvestite donkey witch is next to you and why is it wearing a dress?

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    17. Member Tommietank's Avatar
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      05-10-2019 11:19 PM #66
      For anyone buying one, always check with your Utility for deals. Our utility was offering $30/month unlimited EV charging via a free chargepoint charger. Now they offer $750-$1500 when you buy an EV. Remember they have a huge vested interested in you going EV!
      Slow Car Fast

    18. Geriatric Member ValveCoverGasket's Avatar
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      05-11-2019 02:41 AM #67
      Quote Originally Posted by Numbersix View Post
      The instant torque is addictive, for sure, as is the total lack of drama from a launch.
      this


      i had a thread going on our 36k-odd miles with a lease spark EV - i only skimmed this thread but didnt see that mentioned. theyre somewhat rare and overpriced on lease buybacks due to being compliance cars, otherwise it was a riot to drive. like an overpowered engine swapped small hot hatch.

      one thing id add is whether you really want/need DC fast charging.

      it was optional on the spark, we skipped it, and really didnt regret doing so. id be even more leery about it on an aircooled leaf pack, but from a use case perspective if you have other cars to drive i dont really see the point. assuming that youre using the EV as a commuter within a somewhat predefined daily route.
      we lived just, and i mean just, at the edge of the sparks daily total mileage in cold weather, and even being that close to the limit it wasnt so bad. it was always full and ready to go again the next morning.

      i think our next new car purchase will be an EV of some flavor. probably something with multi-hundred mile range so it can be our "nice car" rather than a city beater.

      anyway though, whatever you choose odds are youll be hooked
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    19. 05-11-2019 01:00 PM #68
      Quote Originally Posted by ValveCoverGasket View Post
      i had a thread going on our 36k-odd miles with a lease spark EV - i only skimmed this thread but didnt see that mentioned.
      Link?

      I'm very interested to read anybody's day-to-day experience with EV ownership.
      Dempsey Bowling
      Sales Consultant at Doug Smith Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep/Ram/Subaru/Kia/used
      My fleet: 91 Miata (5.0L swap project), 98 Wrangler Sport, 01 Suburban 2500 8.1L, 80 Grand Prix LJ 454, 86 GLHS #75, 13 Leaf SV

    20. Geriatric Member ValveCoverGasket's Avatar
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      05-11-2019 02:39 PM #69
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    21. 05-11-2019 03:39 PM #70
      We just turned in our 2016 BMW X5 40e this week when the lease concluded.

      When we bought it I ordered a Bosch charger off Amazon and had an electrician install it. Total out of pocket for the purchase and install was $650. 100% worth it.

      I'd never purchase an EV due to the battery issue. The X5, where the electric motor is in the transmission housing and the 500lbs battery underneath rear floor, got really good 'gas' mileage but it decreased over the term of the lease. The charge that the battery held went down. We went from 20 miles pure electric (enough to leave our neighborhood, drive to the grocery store, etc and return home) to 16 miles pure electric. I also noticed that the gas engine would kick in way more often after about 26 months of ownership than it had before.

      I'd love to have another electric or electric hybrid. They're great. But until the battery life is better (range isn't an issue for us since if we have to go a long distance we just have to take a plane) I'd caution against purchasing one. Lease? Sure. Any day of the week.

      That's my $0.02.
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    22. Member Chris_V's Avatar
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      05-11-2019 04:21 PM #71
      Quote Originally Posted by fsdks View Post
      I'd never purchase an EV due to the battery issue. The X5, where the electric motor is in the transmission housing and the 500lbs battery underneath rear floor, got really good 'gas' mileage but it decreased over the term of the lease. The charge that the battery held went down. We went from 20 miles pure electric (enough to leave our neighborhood, drive to the grocery store, etc and return home) to 16 miles pure electric. .

      Most people don't have that problem. Even in this thread. My Volt is 5 years old and it still has the same range that it did when new. Volts have routinely gone 150-200k miles with no noticeable range degradation (of course, like yours, they only charge to 80% and "empty" is still 10-15% charge). We've seen 5-10% degradation on early Teslas after 100k+ miles or so. If that was an issue, like on the eGolf earlier, it's a problem with that car and should have been taken care of under warranty.
      "Like a fine Detroit wine, this vehicle has aged to budgetary perfection"

    23. Senior Member bzcat's Avatar
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      05-13-2019 02:14 PM #72
      Joining the thread a bit late but I'm kind of searching for an used EV as well so here are my thoughts (they are not in order of any preference... just stream of consciousness posting)

      1. I agree with others... Leave the Leaf behind. Battery degradation is a major issue from what I read and also I know from experience that it has a horrible driving experience. For similar money, you can get a bunch of other EVs that have better thermal management and without the soul-crushing driving experience.

      2. Focus EV is probably the one you want if you care about driving experience a lot. It helps that Focus has great chassis and suspension tuning to begin with but with all the batteries in the trunk and under the rear seat, the weight balance actually improves and it is probably the best handling Focus available... the downside is almost non-existing trunk space.

      3. 500e is wicked fast and fun. I really want one but I need rear doors for kiddo access.

      4. Which brings me to Spark EV... same general idea as 500e - start with a tiny car and add more battery than necessary. However, the Spark interior is really a sad sad place.

      5. eGolf is great... reminds me of the Focus EV. I like how it drove and handled and it has almost regular size hatch/trunk. It's probably one of the most underrated compliance EV.

      6. Soul EV is a really unfortunate name for this car because it is soul-less. Somehow Kia managed to took all the fun out of the regular Soul and replaced with catatonic numbness. I had hoped this was going to be a spunky EV like 500e or Spark but instead, it feels very much like Leaf.

      7. BMW i3 is pretty good... if you can get used to the high seating position. Handles pretty good. The tires are NOT skinny... they are just really tall so it appears to be skinny. The upside for i3 is all the usual BMW stuff you expect. The downside for i3 is all the usual BMW stuff you expect. It's either a love it or leave it car for people.

      8. Bolt prices are still a little in flux because not many have hit the lease return circuit yet but I'm keeping an eye on it. I enjoy the drive and the purpose build integrated feel of the car.

      9. RAV4 EV (Tesla powered 3rd gen) is a really interesting car. I got to drive it because one of my friend worked at Toyota and had a lease (he paid $120 a month including insurance...) It is really fast and the SUV body style is more practical if you have family. Not that many were sold and they are still commanding a lot money (relatively speaking) even with tons of miles.

      10. Mercedes B250e is another Tesla powered compliance car. I liked the drive and overall solid build quality but it is rather expensive for what it is.

      11. Fit EV... never got to try one and I think Honda took them all back and crushed down after the lease.
      Last edited by bzcat; 05-13-2019 at 02:21 PM.

    24. Member Unilateral Phase Detractor's Avatar
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      05-13-2019 02:23 PM #73
      Quote Originally Posted by bzcat View Post
      9. RAV4 EV (Tesla powered 3rd gen) is a really interesting car. I got to drive it because one of my friend worked at Toyota and had a lease (he paid $120 a month including insurance...) It is really fast and the SUV body style is more practical if you have family. Not that many were sold and they are still commanding a lot money (relatively speaking) even with tons of miles.
      I did some serious research on the second gen RAV4 EV and left with the impression that the car wasn't a great long term purchase. There are a *lot* of people with drive unit failures from early years; something which was apparently common on the contemporaneous Model S as well. Unless you buy an extended warranty, failures are not covered and can cost in the 5 digit range. Supposedly ordering replacement parts is also painful, with Tesla's well documented issues in getting things out quickly for service.

      It really seems like a nice car for families, especially given the fact that we still don't have a small SUV BEV for sale today. That's probably what makes for high prices, but in a year or two we will *finally* have some competition in the form of the VW ID.5 or whatever else is out.

    25. 05-13-2019 04:36 PM #74
      Quote Originally Posted by bzcat View Post
      I agree with others... Leave the Leaf behind. Battery degradation is a major issue from what I read and also I know from experience that it has a horrible driving experience. For similar money, you can get a bunch of other EVs that have better thermal management and without the soul-crushing driving experience.
      I'm going to make a huge leap of logic here and say, this is all Elon Musk's fault. Apparently every car-loving US citizen has heard about Ludicrous Mode, and they somehow associate it with all electric cars, not just the top-of-the-line six-figure Tesla. So now if an enthusiast even hears mention of an EV that can't do 0-60 in less than five seconds, the hapless car is immediately dismissed as a joyless, soul-crushing, third world penalty box. Give me a f---ing break.

      Like many EV buyers in this country, I am not looking to buy a battery-powered Corvette. Nowhere on my list of EV requirements will you see listed a low 'Ring lap time, or a low quarter mile ET. I want something reliable, quiet, efficient, and spacious enough for me to bring along three full-size adults in reasonable comfort, all without requiring a drop of gasoline. The Leaf will do all those things, and it will do them extremely well. Best of all, it will do them for less than $10,000.

      If the thought of driving a Leaf doesn't give you a hard on, I'm sorry. Actually, that's a lie. I am not sorry, not in the slightest. I know I am not buying this car to fulfill any need for excitement. But even still, that does not mean owning it won't be fulfilling. Hell, go watch a few videos made by Nissan Leaf owners--they all tend to rave about how much they love their cars. Clearly, there is more to the Leaf than skidpad figures.

      Quote Originally Posted by bzcat View Post
      BMW i3 is pretty good. The tires are NOT skinny... they are just really tall so it appears to be skinny.
      I disagree. 155/60-20 up front and 175/55-20 in the rear are pretty damn thin. Hell, I'm running 175/70-13s on my Metro.
      Dempsey Bowling
      Sales Consultant at Doug Smith Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep/Ram/Subaru/Kia/used
      My fleet: 91 Miata (5.0L swap project), 98 Wrangler Sport, 01 Suburban 2500 8.1L, 80 Grand Prix LJ 454, 86 GLHS #75, 13 Leaf SV

    26. Geriatric Member spockcat's Avatar
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      05-13-2019 05:22 PM #75
      Quote Originally Posted by bzcat View Post

      10. Mercedes B250e is another Tesla powered compliance car. I liked the drive and overall solid build quality but it is rather expensive for what it is.
      Too bad they didn't give that vehicle more range (only 84 miles) or some kind of range extender.

      https://sfbay.craigslist.org/scz/ctd...876262247.html




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