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    Thread: Mazda N/A Inline-6 + General Brand Changes

    1. Member Disgruntled Ziemniak's Avatar
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      05-12-2019 09:25 PM #1
      Mazda is once again going against the grain, much like that one kid in high-school who mouthed off to all his teachers and peers when he deemed they stepped out of line.
      Lately theres been a huge lack of I6's in market that seem worth while, especially with the lack of a Toyota and Nissan I6, rather them opting to reach out to the Germans, or just using the traditional V-layout.
      Mazda wants no part in that it seems, as they have confirmed an N/A I6 for future platforms, in particular a longitudinal RWD platform that we could only assume would have a long hood to holster that power train.

      Fingers crossed that it resembles the RX-Vision concept from a few years back



      Aside from that, the brand is continuing its push towards a more 'luxurious' image, and the next generation will likely be its largest step thus far.

      https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...rm-inline-six/

      https://www.autoblog.com/2019/05/09/...ines-official/
      Your favorite Ziemniak, hold the gravy.
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    3. Member beefjerky's Avatar
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      05-12-2019 09:28 PM #2
      Inline 6 is the best layout
      Jeep 4.0, 2JZ, RB series, BMW's extensive history, Cummins, various mercedes offerings, etc.
      But does the public really want an I6 rwd luxury Mazda? Hopefully yes.

    4. Member Disgruntled Ziemniak's Avatar
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      05-12-2019 09:29 PM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by beefjerky View Post
      Inline 6 is the best layout
      Jeep 4.0, 2JZ, RB series, BMW's extensive history, Cummins, various mercedes offerings, etc.
      But does the public really want an I6 rwd luxury Mazda? Hopefully yes.
      They f*ckin better
      Your favorite Ziemniak, hold the gravy.
      Quote Originally Posted by Sterling Archer
      "Seriously? Are we not doing phrasing anymore?"
      Quote Originally Posted by GreenandChrome View Post
      "Triple Dog Dare You" has been replaced with "I'm going to butt-f**k your mom right in the ass cooch."
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    5. Member someguy123's Avatar
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      05-12-2019 09:39 PM #4
      The rotary is dead.

    6. Member Zillon's Avatar
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      05-12-2019 10:57 PM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by someguy123 View Post
      The rotary is dead.
      I believe the rotary will live again - but not as a primary source of propulsion.

      I've heard murmurings of it being used in a generator-type format as a range extender in a EV or PHEV vehicle.

    7. Member Disgruntled Ziemniak's Avatar
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      05-12-2019 10:59 PM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by Zillon View Post
      I believe the rotary will live again - but not as a primary source of propulsion.

      I've heard murmurings of it being used in a generator-type format as a range extender in a EV or PHEV vehicle.
      Pretty sure Audi already has been using it in that fashion.
      Its compact nature alongside low-vibration output make it pretty damn good at that job too.
      Your favorite Ziemniak, hold the gravy.
      Quote Originally Posted by Sterling Archer
      "Seriously? Are we not doing phrasing anymore?"
      Quote Originally Posted by GreenandChrome View Post
      "Triple Dog Dare You" has been replaced with "I'm going to butt-f**k your mom right in the ass cooch."
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    8. Member TangoRed's Avatar
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      05-13-2019 12:30 AM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by Disgruntled Ziemniak View Post
      Pretty sure Audi already has been using it in that fashion.
      Its compact nature alongside low-vibration output make it pretty damn good at that job too.
      Fun fact- during Audi's conservative judgment period (call it the last decade) they abandoned their rotary tech and sold it to Mazda.
      Quote Originally Posted by Doug Butabi View Post
      And on the tenth day of the two thousand fifteenth year, TCL finds out about rich people.

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      05-13-2019 05:53 AM #8
      this couldn't be better as an enthoosiast point of view. Here's to hoping for a manual.

      in all seriousness, if they can package into a car that is 1. fun to drive and 2. practical for your everyman (hatch/wagon), it would be the anti-cuv.
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    10. Member 88c900t's Avatar
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      05-13-2019 07:22 AM #9
      Didn't realize until now it would remain NA. I thought skyactiv engines weren't great with high revs

      In all likelihood, it will be a platform shared between an upmarket sedan and an explorer sized crossover. I'd hope for a purist sports car, perhaps a successor to the FD RX7, but with the existence of the Miata I'm not too sure Mazda can make a business case for it again-it's not the 90s anymore.
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      88c900t wins again, you really ****ing crush it at listing a ton of cheap options
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      05-13-2019 07:54 AM #10
      How many ways is this a huge waste of time and money? Let me count

      1. How much will this supposed car cost? Actual luxury brands are having a tough time selling sport sedans (whole segment is down 14% YTD). Kia has to give Stingers away to move them. What makes anyone think this will do any better?

      2. In 2013 ~18% of F30s sold in the US had 6 cylinders. In 2018 that dropped to under 10%. Volvo, Alfa and technically Audi are all 4 banger in their entrants. And there is zero correlation between cylinder count and sales growth in the segment

      3. Mazda is like a fly's fart in the context of sport sedan hawkers like BMW, VWAG, GM etc... many big companies are hurting from failed sport sedan gambles; the impact of this for Mazda could prove to be an existential threat

      4. Every single vehicle Mazda makes is down by double digits year to date.... and most of them are either brand new or relatively new. They sold more vehicles in the US in 2008 than they did last year. What does this do to rectify that much bigger problem?

      5. Skyactiv-D was a flop and their hesitance with Skyactiv-X worries me. Why would you delay deployment on the holy grail of combustion???

      I'm tired of enthusiasts completely disregarding the importance of financial solvency of companies. Car companies exist to make money, not win internet brownie points. Mazda can do well by enthusiasts (and has been IMO) without putting itself, its employees, its stakeholders and its customers in jeopardy. How about bringing stickshift back to the 6? How about bringing back Mazdaspeed? What about a CX-7? There's a long list of **** Mazda should do before this almost guaranteed pointless moonshot.

    12. Member 88c900t's Avatar
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      05-13-2019 08:19 AM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      How many ways is this a huge waste of time and money? Let me count

      1. How much will this supposed car cost? Actual luxury brands are having a tough time selling sport sedans (whole segment is down 14% YTD). Kia has to give Stingers away to move them. What makes anyone think this will do any better?

      2. In 2013 ~18% of F30s sold in the US had 6 cylinders. In 2018 that dropped to under 10%. Volvo, Alfa and technically Audi are all 4 banger in their entrants. And there is zero correlation between cylinder count and sales growth in the segment

      3. Mazda is like a fly's fart in the context of sport sedan hawkers like BMW, VWAG, GM etc... many big companies are hurting from failed sport sedan gambles; the impact of this for Mazda could prove to be an existential threat

      4. Every single vehicle Mazda makes is down by double digits year to date.... and most of them are either brand new or relatively new. They sold more vehicles in the US in 2008 than they did last year. What does this do to rectify that much bigger problem?

      5. Skyactiv-D was a flop and their hesitance with Skyactiv-X worries me. Why would you delay deployment on the holy grail of combustion???

      I'm tired of enthusiasts completely disregarding the importance of financial solvency of companies. Car companies exist to make money, not win internet brownie points. Mazda can do well by enthusiasts (and has been IMO) without putting itself, its employees, its stakeholders and its customers in jeopardy. How about bringing stickshift back to the 6? How about bringing back Mazdaspeed? What about a CX-7? There's a long list of **** Mazda should do before this almost guaranteed pointless moonshot.

      Hello, operator? I'd like to report a bruh moment.


      Peace, Chief. We have no idea what this vehicle is going to be. The reason I suspect what I've said twice now is Mazda is a small company that needs to allocate resources and capital carefully. And given some people find the CX-9 powertrain wanting, this longitudinal-RWD platform could be the CX9's replacement, and if you can piggyback a sedan off the same chassis/engine, then that equals more sales with minimal investment. And given that we live in the current year, the chassis will be designed with a hybrid model in mind, you can take it to the bank.


      Although I will say developing an all new diesel in this day and age is very, very foolish and makes no sense to me.


      Really, the only thing Mazda "should" do first is a speed3 (since we know the 2.5T fit's in it's platform mate, the CX-5) but even that is something of a fantasy.
      Last edited by 88c900t; 05-13-2019 at 08:22 AM.
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      05-13-2019 08:28 AM #12
      I mean, if the CX-9's 2.5T isn't quite enough for people Mazda has a ton of headroom. A 2.5T is a big engine these days. They could easily get a torquey 300HP out of it.

      If that's not enough it makes infinitely more sense to keep the same platforms and make a turbo V6 for their bigger vehicles. Hot V turbo motors are all the rage these days and Mazda knows how to make a good V6.

      I'm just thinking the last thing a small, low margin company like Mazda needs is an expensive new platform and an all new limited use engine... especially in the context of the overall market and Mazda's specific issues.

    14. Senior Member Jettavr666's Avatar
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      05-13-2019 06:02 PM #13
      If mazda is just planning to make modular versions of engines in the future IMO the inline 6 makes sense, IE 2.0l 4 cyl, 3.0l 6 cyl. etc. Otherwise this is a exercise that mazda has been down many times before, and probably wont work out in their favor.

    15. Geriatric Member BRealistic's Avatar
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      05-13-2019 08:20 PM #14
      One big reason Toyota decided to partner with Mazda for an entry level car was Toyota was impressed with the quality and engineering such a small company like Mazda is able to deliver.
      Is is possible that both I-6 engines are actually part of Toyota's future plans too?
      There may be a reason why Mazda is being so tight lipped on this leak (and deleted the original internal document).
      A modern I-6 diesel sounds like something Toyota trucks and commercial vehicles could use internationally.

    16. Member Zillon's Avatar
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      05-13-2019 09:16 PM #15
      The one thing I'm really hesitant about with Mazda's push to premium is where the market goes in the next 2-4 years.

      I'm waiting for the doom and gloom to happen. 17m+ new cars annually is not sustainable forever.

      But yes, their attention to detail, especially lately, is Porsche-esque. It's fantastic to see.

      I hate it when I see very obvious corners cut for the sake of saving a few beans.

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      05-13-2019 10:18 PM #16
      Look at what dealers have to do to move metal. Now is the time to batten down the hatches

      Mazda cuts corners too, just in a productive way. All the bells and whistles are unnecessary when you engineer and design things the right way.

    18. Member Disgruntled Ziemniak's Avatar
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      05-13-2019 10:36 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by TangoRed View Post
      Fun fact- during Audi's conservative judgment period (call it the last decade) they abandoned their rotary tech and sold it to Mazda.
      Shows how much they desperately wanted to make the Rotary work in some form or another.
      Parting with it is like parting with that one old Corgi you've had since you were a kid.
      It was never the largest dog, nor was it the smartest. It could never keep up with the retriever in fetch and it occasionally came back from the woods smelling rather funny.
      But at the end of the day, that dog was your dog, and it was by your side for years and years.

      Watching the Wankel get faded into obscurity was kind of saddening, to say the least, both for enthusiasts and MMC alike
      Your favorite Ziemniak, hold the gravy.
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    19. Member Ark6's Avatar
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      05-13-2019 11:21 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post

      If that's not enough it makes infinitely more sense to keep the same platforms and make a turbo V6 for their bigger vehicles. Hot V turbo motors are all the rage these days and Mazda knows how to make a good V6.

      I'm just thinking the last thing a small, low margin company like Mazda needs is an expensive new platform and an all new limited use engine... especially in the context of the overall market and Mazda's specific issues.
      Mazda currently does not have a 6 cylinder engine at all. None. And if you are starting from bottom an I6 will have more parts commonality than a V6 will. (This is the reason why a lot of automakers are going for a I6 vs a V6.)

      Quote Originally Posted by BRealistic View Post
      One big reason Toyota decided to partner with Mazda for an entry level car was Toyota was impressed with the quality and engineering such a small company like Mazda is able to deliver.
      Is is possible that both I-6 engines are actually part of Toyota's future plans too?
      There may be a reason why Mazda is being so tight lipped on this leak (and deleted the original internal document).
      A modern I-6 diesel sounds like something Toyota trucks and commercial vehicles could use internationally.
      The I6 looks looks like it's derived from skyactiv x. IDK if they are going to sign off on handing over a engine like that.

    20. 05-14-2019 02:56 AM #19
      BOLD IS ME


      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      How many ways is this a huge waste of time and money? Let me count

      1. How much will this supposed car cost? Actual luxury brands are having a tough time selling sport sedans (whole segment is down 14% YTD). Kia has to give Stingers away to move them. What makes anyone think this will do any better? Easy, Market it as a Sports Sedan but sell it as a "Family" Sedan, Case in point: Dodge Charger.

      2. In 2013 ~18% of F30s sold in the US had 6 cylinders. In 2018 that dropped to under 10%. Volvo, Alfa and technically Audi are all 4 banger in their entrants. And there is zero correlation between cylinder count and sales growth in the segment. The I6 wouldnt be the only offering

      3. Mazda is like a fly's fart in the context of sport sedan hawkers like BMW, VWAG, GM etc... many big companies are hurting from failed sport sedan gambles; the impact of this for Mazda could prove to be an existential threat. Mazda is the Purest of the Asian brands. They are Literally the Japanese Alfa Romeo. They have great Design. Handle well (to be FWD), and light platforms. They dont need Lots of power to "Zoom Zoom" in most applications. a new Standard 335hp RX7 would be a blast to drive.

      4. Every single vehicle Mazda makes is down by double digits year to date.... and most of them are either brand new or relatively new. They sold more vehicles in the US in 2008 than they did last year. What does this do to rectify that much bigger problem? 2008-247,269 vs 2018-300,325???http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2012/10...es-usa-canada/

      5. Skyactiv-D was a flop and their hesitance with Skyactiv-X worries me. Why would you delay deployment on the holy grail of combustion??? D was for Diesel right? If so, Thats why.

      I'm tired of enthusiasts completely disregarding the importance of financial solvency of companies. Car companies exist to make money, not win internet brownie points. Mazda can do well by enthusiasts (and has been IMO) without putting itself, its employees, its stakeholders and its customers in jeopardy. How about bringing stickshift back to the 6? How about bringing back Mazdaspeed? What about a CX-7? There's a long list of **** Mazda should do before this almost guaranteed pointless moonshot.
      I believe they can do a RWD Platform. Heck the Miata is still alive without Platform sharing from other brands like Toyota & Fiat.

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      05-14-2019 07:02 AM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by Ark6 View Post
      Mazda currently does not have a 6 cylinder engine at all. None. And if you are starting from bottom an I6 will have more parts commonality than a V6 will. (This is the reason why a lot of automakers are going for a I6 vs a V6.)
      What parts can be shared between an I6 and I4 that can't be shared with a V6? Timing chain?
      Last edited by CTK; 05-14-2019 at 07:36 AM.

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      05-14-2019 07:10 AM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by Tomaz View Post
      BOLD IS ME


      Easy, Market it as a Sports Sedan but sell it as a "Family" Sedan, Case in point: Dodge Charger.
      Kia did this and sales are in the garbage a year later. Again what would be different about Mazda's offering that wouldn't be different for the rest of their lineup?

      Quote Originally Posted by Tomaz View Post
      The I6 wouldnt be the only offering
      Which makes it superfluous

      There is talk that it would be a naturally aspirated engine? What would be the point of an NA I6 up against the 2.5T?

      Quote Originally Posted by Tomaz View Post
      Mazda is the Purest of the Asian brands. They are Literally the Japanese Alfa Romeo. They have great Design. Handle well (to be FWD), and light platforms. They dont need Lots of power to "Zoom Zoom" in most applications. a new Standard 335hp RX7 would be a blast to drive.
      "They don't need lots of power"
      *suggests they build the most powerful car they've ever made*
      Quote Originally Posted by Tomaz View Post
      I've been burnt by GCBC's **** monthly data as well. Look at the annual totals below. 2008 = 85K. 2018 = 59K

      Quote Originally Posted by Tomaz View Post
      I believe they can do a RWD Platform.
      The question isn't whether or not they can- the Miata is phenomenal. The question is whether or not they should. IMO, hell no

      Quote Originally Posted by Tomaz View Post
      Heck the Miata is still alive without Platform sharing from other brands like Toyota & Fiat.
      Wait... what?


    23. Member MonsterM's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 07:19 AM #22
      I think this is a huge mistake. I smell a Passat W8 type of disaster. They need to learn from VW's mistakes. Nobody is paying premium for an econobox brand. KIA/Hyundai are doing it right.

    24. Member 88c900t's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 08:00 AM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by MonsterM View Post
      I think this is a huge mistake. I smell a Passat W8 type of disaster. They need to learn from VW's mistakes. Nobody is paying premium for an econobox brand. KIA/Hyundai are doing it right.
      I think that's an apples-oranges take. The B5 was a $30K sedan but with 2/3rds of a Bentley engine with poor reliability and no spare internal parts, and there was no use for an expensive VW when Audi existed. It should have just used the S4 engine, if anything.

      And people have no problem paying 50K for an Atlas or CX-9.


      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Wait... what?
      Fiat piggybacking off of the ND wasn't critical for the survival of the Miata (which has few actual competitors, which is why it still survives). FCA is the one who benefited from it.

      And if we assume it is a modular design that will eventually spawn a new four, the new engine is a great investment considering Mazda needs a powerhouse on the scale of Ford's 2.7EB.
      Last edited by 88c900t; 05-14-2019 at 08:04 AM.
      Typical forum guy with busted third-hand cars.
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      88c900t wins again, you really ****ing crush it at listing a ton of cheap options
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      05-14-2019 08:19 AM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by 88c900t View Post
      And people have no problem paying 50K for an Atlas or CX-9.
      Right, with the existing prole FWD platform and 4s/V(R)6s, which begs the question of what value this new platform/engine will bring

      The customers don't care and it's gonna eat up profit... so what's the point?

      Quote Originally Posted by 88c900t View Post
      Fiat piggybacking off of the ND wasn't critical for the survival of the Miata (which has few actual competitors, which is why it still survives). FCA is the one who benefited from it.


      “The possibility exists that without our partnership with FCA, there may not have been a business case to produce the fourth-generation MX-5 Miata,” says Robert Davis, Mazda’s senior vice president of U.S. operations.

      https://www.detroitnews.com/story/bu...iata/86161468/

      Quote Originally Posted by 88c900t View Post
      And if we assume it is a modular design that will eventually spawn a new four, the new engine is a great investment considering Mazda needs a powerhouse on the scale of Ford's 2.7EB.
      I don't see how it's a better investment than a V6... they can probably throw a V6 in most of their existing lineup with minimal changes. For an I6 that would put significant distance between itself and the 2.5T they will need a new platform

      The more I think about it the less sense it makes.

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      05-14-2019 08:34 AM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by 88c900t View Post
      And people have no problem paying 50K for an Atlas or CX-9.




      Fiat piggybacking off of the ND wasn't critical for the survival of the Miata (which has few actual competitors, which is why it still survives). FCA is the one who benefited from it.

      And if we assume it is a modular design that will eventually spawn a new four, the new engine is a great investment considering Mazda needs a powerhouse on the scale of Ford's 2.7EB.
      Atlas or CX-9 sure - but it's an SUV, not a sedan. Sedans are dead. I smell another Amati rat hole coming down the pike.

      I wouldn;t be surprised if Mazda's entire R&D budget would need to go into a project of Ford EB levels.

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