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    Thread: Tesla's Screen Saga Shows Why Automotive Grade Matters

    1. Member Tommietank's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 11:15 PM #51
      Quote Originally Posted by BGTI1 View Post
      Sure if its done right you can save money and actually have a better user interface. However, the sexy iPhone you are referring to has an incredible amount of money and time invested. You cant be possibly comparing Iphones from one of the top electronics consumer producer in the world to a screen in a Tesla that was sourced based on Musk desire to have a big screen in the car. Frankly it's embarrassing that the Tesla screens are not tested to automotive standards.
      Yes I am because both are consumer electronics and users treat them exactly as that. Maybe us on TCL treat them as these machines with personalities and long lives, but most people dont. Consumers are fickle. One day the VW Beetle and PT Cruiser was hot, another day the Model 3 had a 2 year wait list. Tesla needs to find or invent a higher grade screen. Problem solved. There's a risk in buying the latest tech from Tesla or BMW or MB. Stuff breaks and is less reliable than a Lexus. This is known.


      Quote Originally Posted by NeverEnoughCars View Post
      The iphone is sexy or ass?
      It is a shiny block. Nothing special.
      I would rather go back to manual wiper blades and optional radios than have touch screens for everything.
      here and here

      Quote Originally Posted by @McMike View Post

      I'm interested in repair and longevity, and these features (cost effective or not) get in the way of this.

      I like technology, but let's integrate it into everything because we can.

      Then buy a Toyota? Tesla is targeting the end of the market that wants the best tech. And consumers are going bonkers for it. Hey, I was in more of a middle ground here. Then I spent a week in my Model 3 and i get it. The big screen is king especially one that constantly updates. And iPhone 6 in 2014 using 2014 software vs the same phone today using new software is different in many ways. Keeps the experience fresh and improves it ways your Toyota cannot. People want this and it's the future of the higher end of the market.
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    3. Senior Member @McMike's Avatar
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      05-15-2019 06:12 AM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by Tommietank View Post
      Then buy a Toyota? Tesla is targeting the end of the market that wants the best tech. And consumers are going bonkers for it. Hey, I was in more of a middle ground here. Then I spent a week in my Model 3 and i get it. The big screen is king especially one that constantly updates. And iPhone 6 in 2014 using 2014 software vs the same phone today using new software is different in many ways. Keeps the experience fresh and improves it ways your Toyota cannot. People want this and it's the future of the higher end of the market.
      .... and did you just make a "My Tesla is always getting better every day" comment? My god, it doesn't take long for you people does it.

      edit

      Some of the loudest Tesla fans are the dumbest. Waxing poetically and drawing their own conclusions from every hyped, inaccurate claim Musk makes (needing no mainteniance, for example) and piece of marketing they can devour. These same people claim that adding fuel to a ICE vehicle is part of this “maintenance.”

      They are often quite ignorant about how the automotive industry works, how cars have ever worked, and now that they are “early adopters” they feel like some sort of visionary, and are all off a sudden subject experts on everything automotive.

      Some say the cars appreciate instead of deprecieate.
      Some say the cars are the safest thing on the road because there have been fewer Tesla accidents than any other car.
      Some cook up numbers to try to justify their purchase claiming the Telsas are “cheaper than a Camry” because of the operating costs. Sure, that might be true in the long run, but it’s not the cost of the product.
      Some make tremendous (and sometimes dangerous) claims about the magic of AutoPilot.
      Some probably have a portrait of Musk in their home.
      Most own stock as if it came in the glovebox with purchase.
      All are projecting all the things they like about it, but none of the downsides without taking in to consideration that it might not be the best vehicle for everyone.

      It’s like that friend of yours. You know the the one. The one who keeps sending emails to your 10-year deactivated Yahoo account, could never figure out how to connect his camera to his computer, was always downloading malware because he always let his free 90 days of AV expire, the guy who could’t figure out how to video chat, text, etc.. The guy that would always send emails to your phone number and texts to your landline. Not dumb, just incompetent. You barely open his emails any more because his account has been spoofed and compromised more times than you can count.

      This guy started buying apple products, got a lesson from his kids, and now he’s a goddamned software engineer. “It’s so easy” “I can’t believe you are still using a Windows computer”. You should but a Mac, they don’t get viruses”. “Really, your phone’s photos don’t just show up on your computer like mine?” “You should get an iPhone, it’s much better than (insert your device here). It has the largest display ever on an iPhone. Even faster Face*ID. The*smartest, most powerful chip in a smartphone. And a breakthrough dual-camera system with Depth*Control. Not to mention it also has the*most durable glass ever in a smartphone. A beautiful new gold finish, achieved with an atomic-level process. Precision-machined, surgical-grade stainless steel bands. And a new level of water and dust resistance.”

      It’s exhausting.

      I didn’t mean you, of course.

      But please stop making the smartphone comparison. Smartphones receive frequent updates for 5-6 years until the manufacturer stops providing support for that hardware. We accept this, as replacement hardware is $500-1000. Time will tell how long these "continual updates" will be provided for this 50-100K hardware. Will a 10 year old Tesla be worth the same as a five-year-old iPhone? Wait and see.
      Last edited by @McMike; 05-15-2019 at 08:42 AM.

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      05-15-2019 07:43 AM #53
      Quote Originally Posted by Tommietank View Post
      Then buy a Toyota? Tesla is targeting the end of the market that wants the best tech.
      How is a screen that's almost guaranteed to fail and need a four figure replacement the best tech?

      There is more to good tech than initial showroom wow factor.

    5. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      05-15-2019 08:15 AM #54
      Quote Originally Posted by Tommietank View Post
      Then buy a Toyota? Tesla is targeting the end of the market that wants the latest tech.
      Fixed. "New" is not synonymous with "better", it's just newer. To forego the old because something is new is folly.


      Quote Originally Posted by Tommietank View Post
      And consumers are going bonkers for it. Hey, I was in more of a middle ground here. Then I spent a week in my Model 3 and i get it. The big screen is king especially one that constantly updates. And iPhone 6 in 2014 using 2014 software vs the same phone today using new software is different in many ways. Keeps the experience fresh and improves it ways your Toyota cannot. People want this and it's the future of the higher end of the market.
      And what about when the hardware has enough age that it is no longer supported? My iPad is about 3 years old. Am I buying a new one because of new features? Nope, I'll use it until it dies and I may or may not replace it. I surf the net and play a couple of games with it. In my car I drive to work and run some errands in it. If I were to buy a Tesla how long would they support it? 10 years? I'd be surprised if it were any longer than that. Sure, lots of people don't care because they buy new every couple of years (which sounds like their client base), but to have a car wind up in a landfill because it can't take software updates is a definite possibility and is ludicrous. Yes, they'll recycle the batteries and metal, but if the car is in otherwise good shape will it be drivable? Will you have to have your Tesla hacked? Will hardware companies come up with "fixes"? Nobody knows and Tesla, as far as I know, isn't saying. Even if they are, they could (and probably would) change their mind at the drop of Elon's hat.

      Meanwhile that 10 year old Toyota will be saying "I'm just getting started".
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    6. Senior Member Jettavr666's Avatar
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      05-15-2019 02:45 PM #55
      Quote Originally Posted by @McMike View Post
      Let's not compare a $500 device we replace every few years and a $30K+ car that will have a 20+ year life.

      I agree with you, that this is probably becoming cost effective (like automatic transmissions, and power windows before them) but in my opinion, this **** doesn't belong in a long-life product like a vehicle. Just like touchscreen on washers, dryers, and refrigerators. Next thing you know, your seven year old washer needs a $800 component because the back light went out on the touch screen, and you end up replacing it because new ones are $900. It's ridiculous and wasteful, and all because someone at Whirlpool told us we needed to be able to start a load of wash from the office and we jumped in with both feet.

      I'm interested in repair and longevity, and these features (cost effective or not) get in the way of this.

      I like technology, but let's integrate it into everything because we can.
      refrigerators themselves are now wearing out after 5-10 years because of new efficiency standards. The compressors are much more stressed, and often it makes little sense to repair it rather than replace it. But yes I agree with what is said above. Personally I think touchscreen refrigerators are once of the silliest things ever, its not hard to stick a note on a fridge for whats needed. I know there are high mileage Tesla's out there, but really I dont see them as a very long lived product as of right now.

      I'm sure things will improve with the model 3, but Tesla still doesn't seemed to have grasped some of the fundamentals of automobile manufacturing. On the model 3 for example, the rear wheel well is built from something like 9 different parts, whereas most cars use a single stamping. Most automakers have very rigorous testing programs to eliminate some of the problems teslas are seeing today. Things like the door handles, screens issues, rear bumpers falling off, door seals, etc, all should have been found in the testing phase. Skipping out on quality to meet your price point doesn't bode well for long term durability.

      This video is of a model 3 teardown, and is really insightful.


    7. Don't be me. Don't be a 'Rick' Cabin Pics's Avatar
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      05-15-2019 03:39 PM #56
      Quote Originally Posted by @McMike View Post
      .... and did you just make a "My Tesla is always getting better every day" comment? My god, it doesn't take long for you people does it.

      edit

      Some of the loudest Tesla fans are the dumbest. Waxing poetically and drawing their own conclusions from every hyped, inaccurate claim Musk makes (needing no mainteniance, for example) and piece of marketing they can devour. These same people claim that adding fuel to a ICE vehicle is part of this “maintenance.”

      They are often quite ignorant about how the automotive industry works, how cars have ever worked, and now that they are “early adopters” they feel like some sort of visionary, and are all off a sudden subject experts on everything automotive.

      Some say the cars appreciate instead of deprecieate.
      Some say the cars are the safest thing on the road because there have been fewer Tesla accidents than any other car.
      Some cook up numbers to try to justify their purchase claiming the Telsas are “cheaper than a Camry” because of the operating costs. Sure, that might be true in the long run, but it’s not the cost of the product.
      Some make tremendous (and sometimes dangerous) claims about the magic of AutoPilot.
      Some probably have a portrait of Musk in their home.
      Most own stock as if it came in the glovebox with purchase.
      All are projecting all the things they like about it, but none of the downsides without taking in to consideration that it might not be the best vehicle for everyone.

      It’s like that friend of yours. You know the the one. The one who keeps sending emails to your 10-year deactivated Yahoo account, could never figure out how to connect his camera to his computer, was always downloading malware because he always let his free 90 days of AV expire, the guy who could’t figure out how to video chat, text, etc.. The guy that would always send emails to your phone number and texts to your landline. Not dumb, just incompetent. You barely open his emails any more because his account has been spoofed and compromised more times than you can count.

      This guy started buying apple products, got a lesson from his kids, and now he’s a goddamned software engineer. “It’s so easy” “I can’t believe you are still using a Windows computer”. You should but a Mac, they don’t get viruses”. “Really, your phone’s photos don’t just show up on your computer like mine?” “You should get an iPhone, it’s much better than (insert your device here). It has the largest display ever on an iPhone. Even faster Face*ID. The*smartest, most powerful chip in a smartphone. And a breakthrough dual-camera system with Depth*Control. Not to mention it also has the*most durable glass ever in a smartphone. A beautiful new gold finish, achieved with an atomic-level process. Precision-machined, surgical-grade stainless steel bands. And a new level of water and dust resistance.”

      It’s exhausting.

      I didn’t mean you, of course.

      But please stop making the smartphone comparison. Smartphones receive frequent updates for 5-6 years until the manufacturer stops providing support for that hardware. We accept this, as replacement hardware is $500-1000. Time will tell how long these "continual updates" will be provided for this 50-100K hardware. Will a 10 year old Tesla be worth the same as a five-year-old iPhone? Wait and see.
      McMike is gonna buy a Tesla.
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    8. 05-15-2019 03:49 PM #57
      Quote Originally Posted by Air and water do mix View Post

      I do not, under any circumstances, want any car that has all of its controls in a touch screen even if there are programmable switches elsewhere.

      A supplementary touch screen? I’m okay with that, but only for tertiary functions (though I’m sure all at least have secondary functions).
      Funny you say that- While not EVERY button was on the screen, my Volvo S90 had 95% of the functionality for the car controlled via the sensus screen. It often had issues and would go completely black. I had to restart the car to control anything. One of the firmware updates even messed with the seats where the lumbar would keep inflating upon startup- oh yeah because most of the seat adjustments were controlled through the sensus system too..

      I would avoid a setup like this in the future because it was a pita.
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    9. 05-15-2019 03:53 PM #58
      Quote Originally Posted by @McMike View Post
      .... and did you just make a "My Tesla is always getting better every day" comment? My god, it doesn't take long for you people does it.

      edit

      Some of the loudest Tesla fans are the dumbest. Waxing poetically and drawing their own conclusions from every hyped, inaccurate claim Musk makes (needing no mainteniance, for example) and piece of marketing they can devour. These same people claim that adding fuel to a ICE vehicle is part of this “maintenance.”

      They are often quite ignorant about how the automotive industry works, how cars have ever worked, and now that they are “early adopters” they feel like some sort of visionary, and are all off a sudden subject experts on everything automotive.

      Some say the cars appreciate instead of deprecieate.
      Some say the cars are the safest thing on the road because there have been fewer Tesla accidents than any other car.
      Some cook up numbers to try to justify their purchase claiming the Telsas are “cheaper than a Camry” because of the operating costs. Sure, that might be true in the long run, but it’s not the cost of the product.
      Some make tremendous (and sometimes dangerous) claims about the magic of AutoPilot.
      Some probably have a portrait of Musk in their home.
      Most own stock as if it came in the glovebox with purchase.
      All are projecting all the things they like about it, but none of the downsides without taking in to consideration that it might not be the best vehicle for everyone.

      It’s like that friend of yours. You know the the one. The one who keeps sending emails to your 10-year deactivated Yahoo account, could never figure out how to connect his camera to his computer, was always downloading malware because he always let his free 90 days of AV expire, the guy who could’t figure out how to video chat, text, etc.. The guy that would always send emails to your phone number and texts to your landline. Not dumb, just incompetent. You barely open his emails any more because his account has been spoofed and compromised more times than you can count.

      This guy started buying apple products, got a lesson from his kids, and now he’s a goddamned software engineer. “It’s so easy” “I can’t believe you are still using a Windows computer”. You should but a Mac, they don’t get viruses”. “Really, your phone’s photos don’t just show up on your computer like mine?” “You should get an iPhone, it’s much better than (insert your device here). It has the largest display ever on an iPhone. Even faster Face*ID. The*smartest, most powerful chip in a smartphone. And a breakthrough dual-camera system with Depth*Control. Not to mention it also has the*most durable glass ever in a smartphone. A beautiful new gold finish, achieved with an atomic-level process. Precision-machined, surgical-grade stainless steel bands. And a new level of water and dust resistance.”

      It’s exhausting.

      I didn’t mean you, of course.

      But please stop making the smartphone comparison. Smartphones receive frequent updates for 5-6 years until the manufacturer stops providing support for that hardware. We accept this, as replacement hardware is $500-1000. Time will tell how long these "continual updates" will be provided for this 50-100K hardware. Will a 10 year old Tesla be worth the same as a five-year-old iPhone? Wait and see.

      Thank you for typing what I was thinking. I was feeling lazy.
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    10. Member The_Real_Stack's Avatar
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      05-15-2019 03:56 PM #59
      Quote Originally Posted by Air and water do mix View Post
      This is exactly why I don’t like the over reliance on touch screens. The wife’s Encore is just before the refresh, so it has a screen with a good backup camera (which the car desperately needs because of its blind spots), but it isn’t even a touch screen at all. There’s a hat switch and a rotating ring below it to select functions. It’s far from perfect, but it works pretty well.

      I do not, under any circumstances, want any car that has all of its controls in a touch screen even if there are programmable switches elsewhere.

      A supplementary touch screen? I’m okay with that, but only for tertiary functions (though I’m sure all at least have secondary functions).
      Quote Originally Posted by ice4life View Post
      Funny you say that- While not EVERY button was on the screen, my Volvo S90 had 95% of the functionality for the car controlled via the sensus screen. It often had issues and would go completely black. I had to restart the car to control anything. One of the firmware updates even messed with the seats where the lumbar would keep inflating upon startup- oh yeah because most of the seat adjustments were controlled through the sensus system too..

      I would avoid a setup like this in the future because it was a pita.
      Most of my Jeep's functions are controlled via touchscreen. Doesn't bother me at all. Most of the controls I use (volume up/down and track +/-) are controlled via steering wheel controls, dash controls, and touch screen controls (not volume). I use the steering wheel controls most of all. What I like is that the touchscreen is configurable, so you can put most-used items on the system tray at the bottom of the screen for quick access. For instance, I can turn on the backup camera at any time, and I do so to check that I've pulled into my garage far enough almost every day. So a quick tap on the screen turns it on, but someone who doesn't need that doesn't have to stare at that icon all the time. Great success.

      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

    11. 05-15-2019 04:01 PM #60
      Quote Originally Posted by @McMike View Post
      .... and did you just make a "My Tesla is always getting better every day" comment? My god, it doesn't take long for you people does it.

      edit

      Some of the loudest Tesla fans are the dumbest. Waxing poetically and drawing their own conclusions from every hyped, inaccurate claim Musk makes (needing no mainteniance, for example) and piece of marketing they can devour. These same people claim that adding fuel to a ICE vehicle is part of this “maintenance.”

      They are often quite ignorant about how the automotive industry works, how cars have ever worked, and now that they are “early adopters” they feel like some sort of visionary, and are all off a sudden subject experts on everything automotive.

      Some say the cars appreciate instead of deprecieate.
      Some say the cars are the safest thing on the road because there have been fewer Tesla accidents than any other car.
      Some cook up numbers to try to justify their purchase claiming the Telsas are “cheaper than a Camry” because of the operating costs. Sure, that might be true in the long run, but it’s not the cost of the product.
      Some make tremendous (and sometimes dangerous) claims about the magic of AutoPilot.
      Some probably have a portrait of Musk in their home.
      Most own stock as if it came in the glovebox with purchase.
      All are projecting all the things they like about it, but none of the downsides without taking in to consideration that it might not be the best vehicle for everyone.

      It’s like that friend of yours. You know the the one. The one who keeps sending emails to your 10-year deactivated Yahoo account, could never figure out how to connect his camera to his computer, was always downloading malware because he always let his free 90 days of AV expire, the guy who could’t figure out how to video chat, text, etc.. The guy that would always send emails to your phone number and texts to your landline. Not dumb, just incompetent. You barely open his emails any more because his account has been spoofed and compromised more times than you can count.

      This guy started buying apple products, got a lesson from his kids, and now he’s a goddamned software engineer. “It’s so easy” “I can’t believe you are still using a Windows computer”. You should but a Mac, they don’t get viruses”. “Really, your phone’s photos don’t just show up on your computer like mine?” “You should get an iPhone, it’s much better than (insert your device here). It has the largest display ever on an iPhone. Even faster Face*ID. The*smartest, most powerful chip in a smartphone. And a breakthrough dual-camera system with Depth*Control. Not to mention it also has the*most durable glass ever in a smartphone. A beautiful new gold finish, achieved with an atomic-level process. Precision-machined, surgical-grade stainless steel bands. And a new level of water and dust resistance.”

      It’s exhausting.

      I didn’t mean you, of course.

      But please stop making the smartphone comparison. Smartphones receive frequent updates for 5-6 years until the manufacturer stops providing support for that hardware. We accept this, as replacement hardware is $500-1000. Time will tell how long these "continual updates" will be provided for this 50-100K hardware. Will a 10 year old Tesla be worth the same as a five-year-old iPhone? Wait and see.

      LOL.. nicely summarizes two guys I know, one who bought a model S and the other buying a 3

    12. Senior Member A.Wilder's Avatar
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      05-15-2019 04:17 PM #61
      Quote Originally Posted by Iroczgirl View Post
      Screens do not belong in a car. Period.

      I don't understand this obsession with screens. I can blend the heater just fine with a lever that operates a blend door and a fan switch.

      At some point we need to stop making things over-complicated just for the sake of making them over-complicated.

      Planned obsolescence is really all it is. I'm just not sure whether that pertains to the car...or the driver.
      I agree with you.

      And also had to post this ridiculous concept.
      signatures are annoying, right?

    13. Member VWestlife's Avatar
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      05-15-2019 04:22 PM #62
      Quote Originally Posted by Iroczgirl View Post
      At some point we need to stop making things over-complicated just for the sake of making them over-complicated.
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    14. Geriatric Member spockcat's Avatar
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      05-15-2019 04:24 PM #63
      Screens on the new MB EQC (see 3:23 in video) are pretty prominent. I assume that they are automotive grade. Note that MB is still using some separate controls below the screens.




    15. Member Uber Wagon's Avatar
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      05-15-2019 04:28 PM #64
      So when I was recently shopping for a car, I looked at a leftover 2018 Audi A6. I loved its gorgeous interior with button and dials that simply worked.



      Then I stepped into a 2019 A6, and it had gigantic dual screen setup. And while the salesman went to get the car for test drive, I could see literally "thousands' of fingerprints all over them.



      I'm not gonna lie, I hate this touchscreen BS that manufacturers are pushing on us. But if manuals have no chance, what chances do buttons and knobs have against the gigantic screens?
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      05-15-2019 04:36 PM #65
      Quote Originally Posted by Uber Wagon View Post
      I'm not gonna lie, I hate this touchscreen BS that manufacturers are pushing on us. But if manuals have no chance, what chances do buttons and knobs have against the gigantic screens?
      theyre cheaper, so they really dont stand a chance

      Quote Originally Posted by spockcat View Post
      Screens on the new MB EQC (see 3:23 in video) are pretty prominent. I assume that they are automotive grade.
      theyve been building cars for a couple years, so i think thats a safe assumption
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    17. Member Uber Wagon's Avatar
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      05-15-2019 04:55 PM #66
      Quote Originally Posted by ValveCoverGasket View Post
      theyre cheaper, so they really dont stand a chance
      Are the screens more expensive to repair?
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    18. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      05-15-2019 05:14 PM #67
      Quote Originally Posted by Uber Wagon View Post
      Are the screens more expensive to repair?
      Cost of manufacturing is probably well above 90% of the reasons for doing something, not the cost of repair. It's why we have front-wheel drive. FWD cars are certainly not easier to service than RWD cars, but they're dominant over the automotive landscape, especially the bottom end.
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      05-15-2019 05:22 PM #68
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      Most of my Jeep's functions are controlled via touchscreen. Doesn't bother me at all. Most of the controls I use (volume up/down and track +/-) are controlled via steering wheel controls, dash controls, and touch screen controls (not volume). I use the steering wheel controls most of all. What I like is that the touchscreen is configurable, so you can put most-used items on the system tray at the bottom of the screen for quick access. For instance, I can turn on the backup camera at any time, and I do so to check that I've pulled into my garage far enough almost every day. So a quick tap on the screen turns it on, but someone who doesn't need that doesn't have to stare at that icon all the time. Great success.
      Is this really true though? All the the HVAC controls have hard buttons, heated steats and steering wheel have hard buttons, headlights, wipers, and power mirrors have hard buttons, engaging 4wd has a hard button .

      Most of the most important automotive functions seem to have hard buttons? Please correct me if I'm wrong, haven't spent a ton of time in a new Jeep.

    20. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      05-15-2019 05:40 PM #69
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      Most of my Jeep's functions are controlled via touchscreen. Doesn't bother me at all. Most of the controls I use (volume up/down and track +/-) are controlled via steering wheel controls, dash controls, and touch screen controls (not volume). I use the steering wheel controls most of all. What I like is that the touchscreen is configurable, so you can put most-used items on the system tray at the bottom of the screen for quick access. For instance, I can turn on the backup camera at any time, and I do so to check that I've pulled into my garage far enough almost every day. So a quick tap on the screen turns it on, but someone who doesn't need that doesn't have to stare at that icon all the time. Great success.
      And how well do you think it will work when it's 10 years old? I keep my cars a long time, so that's paramount to me.

      The best that touch screens can hope to do is be adequate in the interface department. Sure, there are bad examples of seemingly dozens of buttons in some cars making for a scenario where you have to look away, but for the most part manufacturers have gotten it to where you don't have to look at buttons and knobs all the time. A glance will do. With a touch screen there may be some things you can do quickly and efficiently, but a well designed touch screen will never be as good as a well designed switched interface. It simply can't. It's a screen and there is no feel except the edges of said screen. With switches and knobs you have different kinds of switches in different locations that operate differently. Some are knobs that rotate, some are stalks that rotate and/or move fore/aft/up/down, then there are buttons and rocker switches of different sizes, each with its own little bit of real estate that it doesn't share with other functions. You reach "here" to turn on the radio and "there" to increase the fan speed. You never confuse the two and you never have to look at it to know which you're operating, because not-shared real estate. As I said, some are going to be "okay", but that's about it.
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

    21. Member The_Real_Stack's Avatar
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      05-15-2019 06:03 PM #70
      Quote Originally Posted by Air and water do mix View Post
      And how well do you think it will work when it's 10 years old? I keep my cars a long time, so that's paramount to me.
      I anticipate it will be fine. Electronic things tend to either fail early, or last a long long time. They aren't like mechanical things that will wear out or break.
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

    22. Member The_Real_Stack's Avatar
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      05-15-2019 06:04 PM #71
      Quote Originally Posted by Quinn1.8t View Post
      Is this really true though? All the the HVAC controls have hard buttons, heated steats and steering wheel have hard buttons, headlights, wipers, and power mirrors have hard buttons, engaging 4wd has a hard button .

      Most of the most important automotive functions seem to have hard buttons? Please correct me if I'm wrong, haven't spent a ton of time in a new Jeep.
      There are deeper HVAC controls that are touch screen, there's a lot of trip computer type things that are touch screen, and basically the entire infotainment system is touch screen aside from a volume knob, mute button, power button, and the mentioned steering wheel controls.
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

    23. Member Unilateral Phase Detractor's Avatar
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      05-16-2019 09:49 AM #72
      Quote Originally Posted by nemesis099 View Post
      I had the 2013 FFE as well and it was pretty solid but the voice recognition stuff was horrible. I hit the button say "Call Wife" and it would respond calling some random person in my contacts like "Calling John Smith Esquire". This is one of the reasons why I really like Android Auto in my new car as using Google's voice recognition is much better.

      How is the FFE holding up. I was thinking about buying a used one so I could be in an electric car again.
      Thread updated! https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...content)/page3

    24. 05-16-2019 01:09 PM #73
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      I anticipate it will be fine. Electronic things tend to either fail early, or last a long long time. They aren't like mechanical things that will wear out or break.
      Im the 80's and 90's yeah. Not anymore. Not when everything went to just in time manufacturing and was outsourced to china. Parts might pass QA the day they are tested but everything is faked and is total crap. If you don't catch it, it sails through. Stuff is getting really hard to detect too.









      https://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconduc...op-electronics

    25. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      05-16-2019 01:53 PM #74
      Quote Originally Posted by Aseras View Post
      Im the 80's and 90's yeah. Not anymore. Not when everything went to just in time manufacturing and was outsourced to china. Parts might pass QA the day they are tested but everything is faked and is total crap. If you don't catch it, it sails through. Stuff is getting really hard to detect too.









      https://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconduc...op-electronics
      Through no fault of your own your post really, really pisses me off.
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

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