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    Thread: The New "Supra" and What it Means for the Car World.

    1. Member
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      05-14-2019 02:11 PM #51
      The Zupra is a good car. It's just not a Supra as one would think it'd be.
      Doesn't even have a Toyota engine under the hood.

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    3. Don't be me. Don't be a 'Rick' Cabin Pics's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 02:21 PM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by squelchy451 View Post
      The Zupra is a good car. It's just not a Supra as one would think it'd be.
      Doesn't even have a Toyota engine under the hood.
      What?



      That clearly has the Toyota logo on it.

      Car also says Supra on it, not Zupra. It would appear you’re wrong.
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      05-14-2019 02:24 PM #53
      mmmmm this thread started with taking youtube car "journalists" seriously .... so thats a critical mistake.
      Quote Originally Posted by VigorousZX View Post
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      05-14-2019 02:25 PM #54
      Quote Originally Posted by 6cylVWguy View Post
      You definitely don't know me. Where you have me confused in particular is that I'd never go to a toyota dealer to drive one as part of a group of cars I'd consider for purchase. I absolutely would never consider the current gen Supra. For my money, I'd rather have a corvette or Boxster 10 times out of 10. But if I had to go Asian, I'd just buy a Z. Yeah, it's practically ancient, which infuriates me. But not enough for me not to buy one if I was in a situation where I had to. It's simply more appealing to me than the supra. Both are 2-seaters. The Z has a decent NA V6 and is available manual. The Supra, well, is German. Not only is it not Asian, but it's German! From a reliability perspective why would I want that? Part of the reason I would go with an Asian vehicle---any Asian vehicle---over a domestic or Euro brand is reliability.

      You can argue with me all day long about the logical reasons for why toyota didn't build something in-house: costs, revenue, not having a platform, not having an I6. You know what? That's toyota's problem, not mine. That brand continues to make cars with very little appeal to me. The only one losing out there is toyota. I'll happily spend my money elsewhere.

      If I had to buy a Toyota tomorrow, it would be a 4Runner or Land Cruiser (assuming I had the money for such a spendy purchase).
      I definitely don't know you, you're an anonymous forum member to me.

      I guess you skipped this part of my post:

      I don't believe for ONE second that if you test drive a new Supra, and you genuinely like it, that you'd walk right out of a Toyota dealer, and into a Nissan dealer to buy a new 370Z based on the fact that the 370Z is an in-house design, and the Supra is not.
      Obviously you don't like it. Which is fine.

      I'm not going to argue with you about logical reasons and the whole shabang. Frankly I don't really care. The end product is what matters for most buyers, save a few wackos out there.

    6. Senior Member Sporin's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 02:29 PM #55
      It sort of fascinates me how tweaked so many people are about the BMW development.



      I'm with Dubveiser.

    7. Member vwpiloto's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 02:43 PM #56
      I like the idea that all existing BMW B58 tuning options are easily going to be available for the Supra. I also believe the ZF8HP is going to be key in taking the extra power and torque the aftermarket is going to produce.

      I don't think the new Supra means anything to the car world. It's not revolutionary (no Supra ever was, and so few cars have ever really been). But it does seem to be shaping up to be a fine sports car, and one that's going to be tuner friendly.

      Of all the off-the-shelf engines they could have chosen, including Toyota family engines, and disregarding the desire for it to be an I-6, I think the B58 is one the better choices out there. It's smooth, powerful, easily tuned, and produced on a relatively large scale, so parts are more readily available.

    8. Senior Member 6cylVWguy's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 02:44 PM #57
      Quote Originally Posted by Dubveiser View Post
      Obviously you don't like it. Which is fine.

      I'm not going to argue with you about logical reasons and the whole shabang. Frankly I don't really care. The end product is what matters for most buyers, save a few wackos out there.
      I'm more than happy to be a wacko. My decision tree for cars is really really simple. Usually I see a car for the first time online or in a magazine. Do I like the styling? If it's yes, move to next step. If it's no, stop investigating further. The next step is everything else inside the body. What does the interior look like and what are the details on the mechanicals. Is it what I would want out of a particular vehicle. And for the supra, what I don't want is something made by someone who isn't toyota. So in this case, that's where my interest in the Supra stops. If I like the look and specs, then yeah, I would then go see one in person with the potential to buy it. Don't get me wrong, I'd happily take a spin in a new Supra---just like I'd happily drive anything I have no experience with---but it wouldn't be with the expectation that I would be interested in purchasing one.

      I think it's funny that some people can't comprehend (not that they need to agree with it) the idea of someone not liking a vehicle for reasons beyond how it drives. I wouldn't drive something ugly regardless of how well it drove, so I don't know why my dislike of the car because it's a BMW is any different. I would be completely happy if Toyota never offered this car for sale. It's just another auto-only BMW, but with (IMO) a pretty face.

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      05-14-2019 02:48 PM #58
      I'd just prefer to get a car from it's developing manufacturer.

      Right now Toyota has cars manufactured from 1) Subaru (86), b) Mazda (Yaris), and iii) BMW (Supra).

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      05-14-2019 03:02 PM #59
      Quote Originally Posted by Smigelski View Post
      I'd just prefer to get a car from it's developing manufacturer.

      Right now Toyota has cars manufactured from ... iii) BMW (Supra).
      Well, technically Magna Steyr.

      Not many Magna Steyr dealerships around though

    11. Member Smigelski's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 03:03 PM #60
      Quote Originally Posted by Quinn1.8t View Post
      Well, technically Magna Steyr.

      Not many Magna Steyr dealerships around though
      You are technically correct, which is the best kind of correct.

    12. Member vwpiloto's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 03:08 PM #61
      Quote Originally Posted by Smigelski View Post
      I'd just prefer to get a car from it's developing manufacturer.
      I think the term for that is "single origin."

    13. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 03:24 PM #62
      Quote Originally Posted by 6cylVWguy View Post
      So at this point in time, if I had to buy an Asian performance car right now that I could afford, my first choice would be a new 370z and my second would be a used GTR. Perhaps, I'd even consider a RC-F as well. I just can't get into the "Supra" despite finding the design attractive and the price inoffensive. If I want to buy a BMW, I'll buy one that has a roundel on the front.
      If your first choice for Asian performance cars is the 370Z over this - because reasons - then I don't know what to tell you. This car is much better in every way unless you're that tied to a manual transmission specifically in Asian cars. You can do with your money as you wish, but if those are your reasons a hell of a lot of car guys are going to give you one of these.


      Quote Originally Posted by Dubveiser View Post
      Let me get this straight?

      Toyota releases a new RWD, I6 turbo, 335hp, sports coupe, with rave reviews so far.

      And there are people complaining?

      My favorite comment is that it's not expensive enough.

      What in the actual f***
      I know, right? like some my only issues are that it doesn't have a manual (but that's still a possibility) and that it is no longer a 2+2, which kills it for people like me (who have more money than I!).


      Quote Originally Posted by lip View Post
      This. The Supra was always accessible, even after they ditched the Celica name. There’s a lot of revisionist history tied to the last Supra.
      I’m warming up to the new one, especially after watching the reviews. Seems like decent value and you get all the nice BMW interior bits. I’m sure they’ll have some hopped up versions down the line too.
      Very much this. I'm well acquainted with that era of Toyota's history and while the MkIV was a big leap from the also-cool Supra MkIII, it wasn't what people now think it was. The MkII was the coolest, btw. Disagree? Then feel free to be wrong.

      Quote Originally Posted by vwpiloto View Post
      The S600, S800 and S2000 would like to have a word with you.
      Fixed.
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
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      05-14-2019 03:26 PM #63
      Quote Originally Posted by lip View Post
      This. The Supra was always accessible, even after they ditched the Celica name. There’s a lot of revisionist history tied to the last Supra.
      I’m warming up to the new one, especially after watching the reviews. Seems like decent value and you get all the nice BMW interior bits. I’m sure they’ll have some hopped up versions down the line too.
      Can't put a revisionist spin on Supra featured in the original Need for Speed game in 1996.

    15. Senior Member 6cylVWguy's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 03:41 PM #64
      Quote Originally Posted by Air and water do mix View Post
      If your first choice for Asian performance cars is the 370Z over this - because reasons - then I don't know what to tell you. This car is much better in every way unless you're that tied to a manual transmission specifically in Asian cars. You can do with your money as you wish, but if those are your reasons a hell of a lot of car guys are going to give you one of these.
      It's not better in every way---sorry. The Z is VASTLY cheaper in just sport trim (which is what I would get), and I could get one in the used market for even less. So in relation to purchase price the Z wins hands down. And yes, for a 2-seat sports car, I expect a manual transmission. That's not negotiable. I mean they didn't even give the cars (Z4 or "supra") the DCT (which I have driven on a track and enjoyed in that setting)! And frankly, some folks prefer a more analog, traditional, approach to their cars. And given how old the Z is, it's all about analog!

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      05-14-2019 04:05 PM #65
      I'd take a 370Z over the new Supra, as well.

      Naturally aspirated six-cylinder engine, hydraulic steering, manual transmission, and (arguably) better looks for less money sure trump whatever the Supra is offering (and I'm not even really sure what the Supra is offering that couldn't be had elsewhere).

    17. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 04:18 PM #66
      Quote Originally Posted by 6cylVWguy View Post
      It's not better in every way---sorry. The Z is VASTLY cheaper in just sport trim (which is what I would get), and I could get one in the used market for even less. So in relation to purchase price the Z wins hands down. And yes, for a 2-seat sports car, I expect a manual transmission. That's not negotiable. I mean they didn't even give the cars (Z4 or "supra") the DCT (which I have driven on a track and enjoyed in that setting)! And frankly, some folks prefer a more analog, traditional, approach to their cars. And given how old the Z is, it's all about analog!
      I'm a manual junkie myself, but if I were in that market unless the Supra comes with a stick later that and the 2-seater configuration are what would keep me out of it. The Z doesn't even show up on my radar. I'd probably go with a 2.3 Ecoboost Mustang with the driver's package if I were going for a coupe in that price range. For Supra money that might even get one into a Coyote powered one.

      Used cars don't count. At all. Unless this is a "what should I buy for 'X' number of $" thread. It's simply a different measuring stick and one that manufacturers can do nothing about. If you're including used cars then suddenly this could compare to just about any car from any era, especially if you're including "bang for the buck" scenarios. Hell, I'd take a restored 240Z over either one if I don't need to daily it! If that is t analog enough how about a 1965 or later Corvair coupe?

      Also, in my comparison of the Supea and Z I wasn't speaking of cost-of-entry, just hardware.
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
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    18. Senior Member 6cylVWguy's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 04:49 PM #67
      Quote Originally Posted by Air and water do mix View Post
      I'm a manual junkie myself, but if I were in that market unless the Supra comes with a stick later that and the 2-seater configuration are what would keep me out of it. The Z doesn't even show up on my radar. I'd probably go with a 2.3 Ecoboost Mustang with the driver's package if I were going for a coupe in that price range. For Supra money that might even get one into a Coyote powered one.
      Ooph...an EB mustang? Not for me. I vastly prefer the idea of a NA V6 in the Z to a turbo 4 cyl, which in general I don't care for in most (not all) performance applications. And the size----the mustang just drives so big. For an almost identical price as the launch edition Supra, I'll take a brand new C7 corvette (both being 2 seaters). And I bet with current transactions prices, I could probably save a bit.

      But if mustangs are your thing, for Launch Edition money, forget about a Mustang GT, you're a stones throw from a new GT350.


      Unless this is a "what should I buy for 'X' number of $" thread. It's simply a different measuring stick and one that manufacturers can do nothing about. If you're including used cars then suddenly this could compare to just about any car from any era, especially if you're including "bang for the buck" scenarios. Hell, I'd take a restored 240Z over either one if I don't need to daily it! If that is t analog enough how about a 1965 or later Corvair coupe?
      In real life, it's always what can I get for $XX---unless I'm 100% set on a very specific car. So for me, $50k is a good amount of coin, which means everything that I like at that price is in play. It's also a price point where some very interesting expensive cars (>$50k new) that are a few yrs old can be purchased. Other than the looks, the "Supra" just doesn't make a compelling case for itself, and this is especially true when one considers every single performance car that one could get for $50k.

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      05-14-2019 04:56 PM #68
      Quote Originally Posted by Canaletto View Post
      I'd take a 370Z over the new Supra, as well.

      Naturally aspirated six-cylinder engine, hydraulic steering, manual transmission, and (arguably) better looks for less money sure trump whatever the Supra is offering (and I'm not even really sure what the Supra is offering that couldn't be had elsewhere).
      has the same problem as the Z car though. the Z car can't compete with a 20 year old corvette, but the supra can't compete with a 10 year old corvette.
      Quote Originally Posted by VigorousZX View Post
      In their unquenchable thirst for world domination, the aristocrats tax peoples time so as to keep its cattle viewed populations forever in servitude. They have gone as far as brainwashing and banning the western world that marrying your first cousin is forbidden and results in retardation... and thus have disturbed human evolutionary densities because broken families are easier to control and will better fall into debt slavery.

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      05-14-2019 05:56 PM #69
      I really don't see any other way this car was supposed to come to fruition for Toyota. The $75-120K sportscar class is only second to pickup trucks right now in terms of competitiveness and progression IMO. Just a bad place to play especially against the Corvette and 911. The MkIV Supra was proof enough of that.

      Bringing a $50-60K 2-seat RWD sportscar with great performance and throwback hallmarks just make sense. And having shared development costs, especially at time when Toyota's profit margins are already squeezed, really pays off here.

      I really think people should be glad it exists at all.
      Last edited by JustinCSVT; 05-14-2019 at 06:00 PM.

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      05-14-2019 06:05 PM #70
      Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
      has the same problem as the Z car though. the Z car can't compete with a 20 year old corvette, but the supra can't compete with a 10 year old corvette.
      And a $5K literbike will wipe the floor with everything

      Used vs new comparisons outside of someone shopping within a budget were, are and always will be horse****.

      (And a Z does compete with a 20 year old Corvette )

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      05-14-2019 06:21 PM #71
      Quote Originally Posted by Air and water do mix View Post
      I'm a manual junkie myself, but if I were in that market unless the Supra comes with a stick later that and the 2-seater configuration are what would keep me out of it. The Z doesn't even show up on my radar. I'd probably go with a 2.3 Ecoboost Mustang with the driver's package if I were going for a coupe in that price range. For Supra money that might even get one into a Coyote powered one.
      The only Mustang that actually handles well is the GT350. Even the new Bullet Mustang and every version of the Performance Pack gets complaints. The Ecoboost Mustang is widely panned both both being too soft and sounding like a Ford Focus engine because, well, it is. So to get a Mustang that actually handles really well, you're looking at at least $60k, if not $71k+ for a GT350R with a bright paint color and the Technology package and whatever. Honestly, the Supra is a good deal.

    23. 05-14-2019 06:28 PM #72
      Dont think this car will affect the MKIV supras resale, I blame the BMW mechanicals which will scare people used to going nuts on the 2jz with huge turbos

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      05-14-2019 06:30 PM #73
      Quote Originally Posted by zllekk View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by danny_16v View Post
      A car's rarity doesn't necessarily coincide with it's MSRP. More to do with production numbers, I don't know how many Toyota will make hopefully many. All of the other cars you've listed are under $70k and you can buy them today as well.
      In my mind the Supra is legendary. This doesn’t hit that legendary bar for me. If I spend south of 80k on my next ride in 4-6 years I will be into those 3. I am not telling you not to like it! I don’t like it! That’s all!


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      One generation of the Supra is legendary. Not the ones that came before it.

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      05-14-2019 06:33 PM #74
      Quote Originally Posted by JustinCSVT View Post
      I really think people should be glad it exists at all.
      Why? Another "sports" car with no manual transmission, a turbo-charged engine, and electric steering isn't really bringing anything exciting to the market, IMHO.

      People will forget about this car the second that the mid-engined Corvette hits the market.

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      05-14-2019 06:35 PM #75
      Quote Originally Posted by ImpeccableNEW View Post
      Dont think this car will affect the MKIV supras resale, I blame the BMW mechanicals which will scare people used to going nuts on the 2jz with huge turbos
      The cars are 20 years apart. I don't think it would've had an effect regardless.

      If the aftermarket gets serious like they did with the N54, this car will end up making big numbers anyway.

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