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    Thread: Why, oh why, can we not find a DMF clutch that handles Stage 3

    1. 05-18-2019 03:29 PM #1
      For the mechanics amongst us this has bothered me for quite a while: Why is it that when our upgraded clutch options all are of the SMF variety and carry with them the attendant NVH issues?

      I mean, you don't ever hear about chatter or gear lash in a 911 turbo which means that the OEM clutch is a DMF rated to 500+ hp. Or they use some SMF variant that possesses magical dampening characteristics.

      Consider this an opportunity for education, and thanks
      Last edited by gwmermel!; 05-18-2019 at 03:39 PM.
      Quote Originally Posted by gwmermel! View Post
      Sorry for being an idiot. Send your sympathy to my wife......
      2017 LSG/ DG short shifter/ Raceseng knob/ Stratified Cobb tune/ MSS track springs/ DKM Twin Disc/ CTS Intake,IC,DP/ Revo engine/tranny mounts/ hp-lp fp/ Eqt Vortex turbo.

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      05-18-2019 04:59 PM #2
      https://www.hstuning.com/rsr-hybrid-...k7-golf-r.html


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      '16 Golf R MT, DP, BCS Exhaust, Unitronic Stage 2, JB4

    4. 05-18-2019 06:25 PM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by rodacollier View Post
      I would have gone with the RSR hybrid. But they themselves have a disclaimer about going with either the DKM or Sachs stage 3 if going part stage 2. Which means I wouldn't even trust it at stage 2

      Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
      Quote Originally Posted by gwmermel! View Post
      Sorry for being an idiot. Send your sympathy to my wife......
      2017 LSG/ DG short shifter/ Raceseng knob/ Stratified Cobb tune/ MSS track springs/ DKM Twin Disc/ CTS Intake,IC,DP/ Revo engine/tranny mounts/ hp-lp fp/ Eqt Vortex turbo.

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      05-18-2019 07:02 PM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by gwmermel! View Post
      I would have gone with the RSR hybrid. But they themselves have a disclaimer about going with either the DKM or Sachs stage 3 if going part stage 2. Which means I wouldn't even trust it at stage 2

      Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
      Can you put a link to where you are reading this ? I only see a drag note.

      The hybrid clutch says “
      We recommend this clutch for all high output MQB cars, and FSI / TSI cars that have turbo upgrades.”
      https://www.hstuning.com/rsr-hybrid-...ategory_id=243


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      '16 Golf R MT, DP, BCS Exhaust, Unitronic Stage 2, JB4

    7. 05-18-2019 07:25 PM #6
      SPEC makes a few and Sachs has a 4 puck, the custom built SPEC one for HPA is what I have my eye on.

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      05-18-2019 07:40 PM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by o1turbo20v View Post
      SPEC makes a few and Sachs has a 4 puck, the custom built SPEC one for HPA is what I have my eye on.
      I came from a platform where SPEC had a 100% failure rate, and they claimed installation error. (springs and rivets fall out)

      Don't walk, but run from spec.
      2017 Golf R Lapiz Blue MT6

    9. 05-19-2019 01:07 AM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by o1turbo20v View Post
      SPEC makes a few and Sachs has a 4 puck, the custom built SPEC one for HPA is what I have my eye on.
      Sachs also has a 6 puck doesn't it? And aren't those SMF with chatter etc?
      Quote Originally Posted by gwmermel! View Post
      Sorry for being an idiot. Send your sympathy to my wife......
      2017 LSG/ DG short shifter/ Raceseng knob/ Stratified Cobb tune/ MSS track springs/ DKM Twin Disc/ CTS Intake,IC,DP/ Revo engine/tranny mounts/ hp-lp fp/ Eqt Vortex turbo.

    10. 05-19-2019 01:25 AM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by rodacollier View Post
      Can you put a link to where you are reading this ? I only see a drag note.
      Interesting. The warning used to apply to upgraded turbos. When I was planning Stage 2 and choosing my clutch last fall the Hybrid was high on my list. But when I talked to them about it I was told to go Sachs or DKM ie, the language that now is limited to just drag use.

      The RSR Hybrid was pretty new back then and was developed because they had a bunch of failures on the original RSR that were installed in Stage 2 cars. Maybe they have removed the cautionary language because it's held up to their continued testing?
      Quote Originally Posted by gwmermel! View Post
      Sorry for being an idiot. Send your sympathy to my wife......
      2017 LSG/ DG short shifter/ Raceseng knob/ Stratified Cobb tune/ MSS track springs/ DKM Twin Disc/ CTS Intake,IC,DP/ Revo engine/tranny mounts/ hp-lp fp/ Eqt Vortex turbo.

    11. 05-19-2019 09:22 AM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by gwmermel! View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by o1turbo20v View Post
      SPEC makes a few and Sachs has a 4 puck, the custom built SPEC one for HPA is what I have my eye on.
      Sachs also has a 6 puck doesn't it? And aren't those SMF with chatter etc?
      No, Both Sachs and spec make ones for use with the stock DMF. The Sachs 4 puck has the highest TQ rating, Sachs also makes a standard clutch disc rated at or around 415ftlbs. spec come in a variety of TQ capacities, where as the spec/HPA is only available in a stage 3.
      Last edited by o1turbo20v; 05-19-2019 at 09:26 AM.

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      05-19-2019 11:27 AM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by o1turbo20v View Post
      The Sachs 4 puck has the highest TQ rating, Sachs also makes a standard clutch disc rated at or around 415ftlbs. spec come in a variety of TQ capacities, where as the spec/HPA is only available in a stage 3.
      It's not just a question of the clutch disk itself, but also of the clamping force provided by the pressure plate. As a DSG owner I've had no reason to research this for my R, but on my M3 track car I have an uprated friction disk, plus a Sachs Racing pressure plate that offers a higher clamping force. Of course the clutch pedal effort gets increased commensurately, but you soon get used to that.

      Neil

    13. 05-19-2019 12:17 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by o1turbo20v View Post
      No, Both Sachs and spec make ones for use with the stock DMF. The Sachs 4 puck has the highest TQ rating,
      Thanks for the info. Seems the 4 puck can be used with either a DMF or an SMF. I had only known about the SMF option.

      However as I read people's experience with it there are still issues (noises, engagement, etc) that you just don't hear about in those Turbo S's etc. The guy over at the BMW forum (https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=753877) removed his 4 puck after 2 years because it was too fatiguing to use as his daily driver.....

      I suppose another way to put it:

      What clutch is standard in a manual Porsche, and how does the design compare to our options?
      Last edited by gwmermel!; 05-19-2019 at 12:25 PM.
      Quote Originally Posted by gwmermel! View Post
      Sorry for being an idiot. Send your sympathy to my wife......
      2017 LSG/ DG short shifter/ Raceseng knob/ Stratified Cobb tune/ MSS track springs/ DKM Twin Disc/ CTS Intake,IC,DP/ Revo engine/tranny mounts/ hp-lp fp/ Eqt Vortex turbo.

    14. Member lcubed's Avatar
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      05-19-2019 02:27 PM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by gwmermel! View Post
      Thanks for the info. Seems the 4 puck can be used with either a DMF or an SMF. I had only known about the SMF option.

      However as I read people's experience with it there are still issues (noises, engagement, etc) that you just don't hear about in those Turbo S's etc. The guy over at the BMW forum (https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=753877) removed his 4 puck after 2 years because it was too fatiguing to use as his daily driver.....

      I suppose another way to put it:

      What clutch is standard in a manual Porsche, and how does the design compare to our options?
      it seems that particular setup was modified for more clamping force over the 'stock' 4 puck setup by the installer and
      was used for drag racing. seems overkill for street driving.

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      05-24-2019 02:38 PM #14
      Clutch Masters makes clutches for the DMF.

      I have the FX350 and plan to go Stage 3, they also have the FX400 available if you want a little more.

      http://www.clutchmasters.com/fx350-17450-hdff-r/

      http://www.clutchmasters.com/fx400-17450-hdb6-r/

      http://www.clutchmasters.com/fx400-17450-hdbl-r/

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