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    Thread: This just in: Hydrogen fueling station explodes in Norway, forcing Toyota & Hyundai to halt Fuel Cell Car sales!

    1. Member Uber Wagon's Avatar
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      06-11-2019 03:22 PM #1
      Blast was so big it set off airbags in nearby cars. Is this the end of the Hydrogen? Stay tuned.



      A hydrogen refueling station exploded and stood in flames yesterday in Sandvika, Norway, which could make June 10, 2019 the day when the perception about hydrogen stations and hydrogen fuel cell cars, in general, will forever change.

      According to reports from the Uno-X station, the explosion was huge. It triggered airbags in nearby cars and caused the necessity to close off the busy E18 and E16 intersection. A safety zone of 500 meters was recommended by the fire service.

      The good news is that there are no reports about direct injuries, but some reports say two people were sent to the emergency room because of injuries sustained from airbags in their cars.

      "“It is probably a tank that has exploded at the hydrogen station next to the police station at Kjorbo,” The Fire Services tells the local newspaper Budstikka."

      "“E18 near the site is closed in both directions due to the danger of explosion. The E16 at the Bjornegarden tunnel in Barum is closed for the same reason,” The Road Traffic Central tweets Tweets."
      The situation started to normalize at 22 o'clock:
      "E18 is now open again and the fire service will have good control of the fire, they write on Twitter at 22 o'clock."
      The cause of the explosion is not yet known as it needs to be investigated.

      Because of that, Uno-X closed its two other stations with hydrogen in Norway, while carmakers - Toyota and Hyundai - temporarily stopped sales of FCVs (well, only a few per month were usually sold anyway). Owners of FCVs are expected to get loaner cars.

      Taking into consideration how few hydrogen refueling stations are installed around the world, with this explosion, the average number of explosions per station will probably be orders of magnitude higher than for any other fuel. Not a good thing if you intend to promote FCVs.

      We were often criticizing hydrogen fuel cell cars as a poor alternative for all-electric, because of low energy efficiency, high cost and lack of refueling infrastructure. As the charging times decreased in new BEVs thanks to ultra-fast chargers and the range on a single charge increased, it seemed that FCVs will never have a chance to take off. Any issues with safety (especially if repeated) only adds to the challenge.
      https://insideevs.com/news/354223/hy...tion-explodes/
      https://norwaytoday.info/news/hydrog...fire-sandvika/

      Last edited by Uber Wagon; 06-11-2019 at 03:26 PM.
      Beer: The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems.

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    3. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      06-11-2019 03:39 PM #2
      Quote Originally Posted by Uber Wagon View Post


      But on a more serious note this makes me sad even though I think hydrogen is a non-starter.
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

    4. Member Uber Wagon's Avatar
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      06-11-2019 03:40 PM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by Air and water do mix View Post
      Beer: The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems.

    5. 06-11-2019 03:53 PM #4
      Its not as if batteries don't explode.

      Hydrogen just cant seem to catch a break

    6. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      06-11-2019 04:02 PM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by jakeyjohn1 View Post
      Its not as if batteries don't explode.

      Hydrogen just cant seem to catch a break
      They don't. They burn and you usually have hours before they start. If you're involved in even a minor accident I wouldn't park the car in the attached garage, that's for sure!

      Gas doesn't explode either, but it does burn mightily. An empty gas tank can explode, but doesn't have a huge amount of energy, though it can throw flaming liquid gas around.
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

    7. 06-11-2019 04:11 PM #6
      EVs creating a nuclear like meltdown and now hydrogen stations exploding.......

      Internal Combustion Engine says....Do you miss me yet?

      https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...engine&sp=mAEB

    8. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      06-11-2019 04:17 PM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by AC1DD View Post
      EVs creating a nuclear like meltdown and now hydrogen stations exploding.......

      Internal Combustion Engine says....Do you miss me yet?

      https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...engine&sp=mAEB


      Right. Because gas is perfectly safe.

      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

    9. Member finklejag's Avatar
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      06-11-2019 04:31 PM #8

    10. 06-11-2019 04:40 PM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by Air and water do mix View Post


      Right. Because gas is perfectly safe.

      ]
      Except that's at a refinery. This explosion took place at the filling station.

      While there are gas station fires result of improper fueling it isn't usually as violent an explosion and isn't as volatile
      compared to H.

    11. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      06-11-2019 05:15 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by AC1DD View Post
      Except that's at a refinery. This explosion took place at the filling station.

      While there are gas station fires result of improper fueling it isn't usually as violent an explosion and isn't as volatile
      compared to H.
      I'm aware, but you were also comparing them to battery EVs (and Jakeyjohn was saying "it's not as if they don't explode"). BEVs certainly have their own problems, but don't actually blow up. What it boils down to is volatility, which hydrogen has. I'm not a hydrogen supporter at all, but I'm not ignoring the dangers of liquid fueling either.

      Oh, and gas station fires are horrific in their own right.
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

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      06-11-2019 05:19 PM #11
      Hydrogen haters

    13. Senior Member AZGolf's Avatar
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      06-11-2019 05:50 PM #12
      On the topic of batteries, it is only specific types of Lithium batteries that are even flammable. There's largely non-flammable lithium batteries too, but we don't use them in cars currently because they cost a lot more and EV fires are already significantly more rare than even gasoline fires.

      Over time, we will have the ability to drive the cost of EV batteries down further and push for non-flammable batteries to become affordable. Hydrogen though? There's no way to make it safe. By its very nature, hydrogen will always be hydrogen and there is no way to make it not hydrogen.

    14. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      06-11-2019 05:57 PM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by DUBPL8 View Post
      Hydrogen haters
      Not a hater, but I'm far from a supporter. My main beef is that the only reason they're going anywhere is because of government subsidies, mostly from Japan. Sure, battery EVs have lots of subsidies as well, but the tech is actually advancing at a fantastic rate (and not too much infrastructure change is needed), but hydrogen is limited in its practicality and is inherently dangerous as well as exceedingly difficult to store, making it even more so. It's also extremely hard to keep it from leaking (which is why it's hard to store) since it's the smallest element in the universe. Those are fundamental issues which neither liquid fueled cars nor BEVs have.
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

    15. Member BlakeV's Avatar
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      06-11-2019 06:05 PM #14
      My main beef is that the only reason they're going anywhere is because of government subsidies
      EXACTLY like EVs.

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      06-11-2019 08:50 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by AZGolf View Post
      Over time, we will have the ability to drive the cost of EV batteries down further and push for non-flammable batteries to become affordable.
      Will we though? How are you so certain? We may have hit the bottom of battery prices, especially if more models come online and create more demand.

    17. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      06-12-2019 08:05 AM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by BlakeV View Post
      EXACTLY like EVs.
      So you stopped reading there? I addressed that clearly.
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

    18. Member Surf Green's Avatar
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      06-12-2019 08:21 AM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by Air and water do mix View Post
      They don't. They burn
      The industry accepted term is conflagration.

      Although Spiral Wrapped cells can occasionally explode with some force. I have seen videos of packs of 18650's going off like a pack of firecrackers.
      I keep up with traffic with only 90 hp. What's your superpower?
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    19. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      06-12-2019 08:31 AM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by Surf Green View Post
      The industry accepted term is conflagration.

      Although Spiral Wrapped cells can occasionally explode with some force. I have seen videos of packs of 18650's going off like a pack of firecrackers.
      I thought the industry term was "thermal event".

      What's the escape time for those packs going off? Still minutes/hours rather than seconds I presume?
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

    20. Member Surf Green's Avatar
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      06-12-2019 08:36 AM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by Air and water do mix View Post
      What's the escape time for those packs going off? Still minutes/hours rather than seconds I presume?
      That can all depend. Usually there's some warning, or clue. But other times, the only warning is the characteristic "Hiss" when all the angry watts come out at the same time.
      I keep up with traffic with only 90 hp. What's your superpower?
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    21. I need new ones NeverEnoughCars's Avatar
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      06-12-2019 08:42 AM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by BlakeV View Post
      EXACTLY like fuel.
      Your point?
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      06-12-2019 08:52 AM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by Surf Green View Post
      angry watts
      Golf clap....

      I have so many reservations about hydrogen... This is a big one. I hope that they are able to root cause it and protect for the future.
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    23. Senior Member AZGolf's Avatar
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      06-12-2019 10:01 AM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Will we though? How are you so certain? We may have hit the bottom of battery prices, especially if more models come online and create more demand.
      None of us can know for absolute certain what the rate of advancement will be but we do know this for a fact: EVs are already being sold at a rate of 1000:1 versus hydrogen cars (which by the way are only leased, you're still not allowed to buy a hydrogen car), batteries can be made non-flammable, and hydrogen can NEVER be made non-flammable.

    24. Nobody messes with me. Not. 😂 ChillOutPossum's Avatar
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      06-12-2019 10:07 AM #23
      Hydrogen was the injured deer flailing on the side of the road. This event is the cop coming along and putting it out of its misery. Finally.

    25. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      06-12-2019 10:53 AM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by AZGolf View Post
      None of us can know for absolute certain what the rate of advancement will be but we do know this for a fact: EVs are already being sold at a rate of 1000:1 versus hydrogen cars (which by the way are only leased, you're still not allowed to buy a hydrogen car), batteries can be made non-flammable, and hydrogen can NEVER be made non-flammable.
      And you don't need a huge infrastructure with hydrogen concentrated in one area/trucked in/piped in. Dangers are everywhere with hydrogen, but you can juice up just about anywhere with a BEV. You can even set up your own solar array in the middle of a field if you really want. While hydrogen is often touted as "the most abundant element in the universe" it isn't exactly cheap and easy for the end user.
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

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      06-12-2019 12:04 PM #25
      Massive hydrogen explosion? Only one solution: Ban the sun.

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