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    Thread: The Truck Lounge: GM urges patience as Silverado falls to 3rd place

    1. Member
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      06-19-2019 02:02 PM #51
      Quote Originally Posted by whitejeep1989 View Post
      Define "weakest".

      GM is in the best market position in China, out of all the D3. That's what matters the most.

      GM cut their losses in EU, while Ford continues to bleed money there.

      FCA and Ford (on the DL) are looking to marry themselves off to a European suitor, to pay for autonomous driving and electrification, and improve EU/China presence.
      GM doesn't need to do any of that
      I was mainly talking product. China auto market isn't exactly the most robust right now anyway.

      There's just nowhere in GM's product lineup I can look to and say "wow good **** bro". Ultimately it's the product that moves a company forward.

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      06-19-2019 02:12 PM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      I was mainly talking product. China auto market isn't exactly the most robust right now anyway.

      There's just nowhere in GM's product lineup I can look to and say "wow good **** bro". Ultimately it's the product that moves a company forward.
      I get what you're saying.
      The only GM cars/trucks that interest me are the ones that I can't/won't afford.
      If I was a wealthier or less frugal man, I'd easily have a Corvette, CT6 Blackwing V8, or ATS-V Coupe.

    4. Member 88c900t's Avatar
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      06-19-2019 02:36 PM #53
      Quote Originally Posted by whitejeep1989 View Post
      I get what you're saying.
      The only GM cars/trucks that interest me are the ones that I can't/won't afford.
      If I was a wealthier or less frugal man, I'd easily have a Corvette, CT6 Blackwing V8, or ATS-V Coupe.
      To the point of Max's post (#44), GM's lineup is weaker now than it has been in the past, at least with mainstream models... Look at the new 2008 Malibu, the original Cruze, the GMT900s... all great and competitive products at the time. In comparison the lineup isn't nearly as competitive today.
      I gave up dailing old and rare cars and became a normie.
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    5. Senior Member bzcat's Avatar
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      07-02-2019 03:18 PM #54
      Ram sales in June surged 56% vs. prior year

      The market is responding positively to Ram's redesign. Forget Silverado... It almost caught Ford F-series this month!

      https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-monster-sales


    6. 07-02-2019 03:44 PM #55
      Quote Originally Posted by bzcat View Post
      Ram sales in June surged 56% vs. prior year

      The market is responding positively to Ram's redesign. Forget Silverado... It almost caught Ford F-series this month!

      https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-monster-sales

      The Bloomberg article also says that FCA switched from fixed rebates to percentage off in June which clearly sent sales skyrocketing.

      Whatever the reason good on FCA for kicking the Silverado’s mediocre butt.

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      07-02-2019 05:10 PM #56
      Well, since Ford went EcoBoost with the F-150, it has unabashedly pushed technology and frequent updates. It ditched the old SBC/"if it ain't broke don't fix it" mentality of truck buyers from twenty years ago and realized that the market is trending towards luxe with an air of functionality. And the EB motors are absolutely unreal, especially paired to the new 10 speed. So quiet, so effortless, and quite efficient for the power they make. The Raptor speaks to me on a spiritual level and every time I drive one I wonder if I could live with myself hopping in and out of one on a daily basis at the places I frequent.

      With the latest redesign, RAM split the difference between the old and the new. Big, updated V8 and fan-freaking-tastic 8-speed auto. It is the truck-tuned powertrain that is beloved in musclecars everywhere. The Hemi is plenty modern to compete with the Ecoboost and plenty stout and old school to capture the traditionalists. BUT, they've added coils in the rear (first to do so), come out with what are objectively the best interiors in the full-size truck biz, and iterated with models that most people actually need. The Rebel isn't a Raptor, but it's mostly better for it. The Power Wagon is a true back country beast and doubles as a serious HD truck that doesn't lose much by way of tow capacity in spite of its off road prowess.

      GM, meanwhile, has just stuck with controversial facelifts, minor interior improvements, a new turbo-4 that clearly isn't really what the full-size market was looking for. Somehow they've managed to not lean on "tried and true" as well as Toyota without improving or iterating as well as Ford/RAM. No revolutionary chassis tech, no game-changing new motors, and not really enough updates to the LS lineup to capitalize on the otherwise innate strength(s) of GM.

      (all of this spoken as someone who desperately wants a diesel Colorado ZR2)

    8. 07-02-2019 05:38 PM #57
      Ram also has the mild hybrid 48V system for the V8 and V6 that adds about 140lbs ft of torque.
      On the Hemi it increases towing capacity to 12,000lbs!!!

      light duty truck, best styling, best ride, and 19MPG with the hybrid Hemi.


      Ram is hitting it out of the park right now.
      And Hellcat Ram is in the pipeline
      Boiler Up!

    9. Senior Member AZGolf's Avatar
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      07-02-2019 07:00 PM #58
      No pictures of the interior of each?





      To me, the RAM looks brand new, totally modern and comfortable and the Silverado looks like it's out of maybe 2009 to 2012 or so. That can't be helping sales.

    10. Member worth_fixing's Avatar
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      07-02-2019 08:15 PM #59
      Quote Originally Posted by AZGolf View Post
      No pictures of the interior of each?





      To me, the RAM looks brand new, totally modern and comfortable and the Silverado looks like it's out of maybe 2009 to 2012 or so. That can't be helping sales.
      but i mean, it's just a truck, for towing and hauling. wouldn't people want capability, reliability and durability, and not care about interior? it's gonna get plastered with mud and gyprock dust anyway.

      money towards the hardware that matters, not useless bells and good-for-nothing whistles.

      strippers are always the answer.
      http://badges.fuelly.com/images/sig-metric/286588.png
      Any car which holds together for a whole race is too heavy.

    11. 07-02-2019 08:35 PM #60
      Quote Originally Posted by worth_fixing View Post
      but i mean, it's just a truck, for towing and hauling. wouldn't people want capability, reliability and durability, and not care about interior? it's gonna get plastered with mud and gyprock dust anyway.

      money towards the hardware that matters, not useless bells and good-for-nothing whistles.

      strippers are always the answer.
      That’s not what these vehicles are used as. They want capability, reliability and durability (which all of the big three offer), plus something that doubles as a comfortable daily driver and does a good impression of a luxury sedan.

      GM knows this, they created the segment with the Sierra Denali. They just half assed it this round and they’re paying for it.

    12. Senior Member AZGolf's Avatar
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      07-02-2019 09:20 PM #61
      Quote Originally Posted by Rakshas View Post
      That’s not what these vehicles are used as. They want capability, reliability and durability (which all of the big three offer), plus something that doubles as a comfortable daily driver and does a good impression of a luxury sedan.

      GM knows this, they created the segment with the Sierra Denali. They just half assed it this round and they’re paying for it.
      Exactly, there's still plenty of companies buying base model trucks with zero features, but all the independent contractors and men who own their own businesses realized they could buy (or often lease) any truck they want and just mark it as a business expense, dramatically reducing the real world cost of the vehicle. No sense buying a base model when you can get a luxury trim model with much the same capabilities and have something the whole family enjoys whenever you're not at work.

    13. Member worth_fixing's Avatar
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      07-02-2019 09:20 PM #62
      Quote Originally Posted by Rakshas View Post
      That’s not what these vehicles are used as. They want capability, reliability and durability (which all of the big three offer), plus something that doubles as a comfortable daily driver and does a good impression of a luxury sedan.

      GM knows this, they created the segment with the Sierra Denali. They just half assed it this round and they’re paying for it.
      who drives a full size truck with unloaded leaf springs as a luxury car? ride must suck; just get an A4.
      http://badges.fuelly.com/images/sig-metric/286588.png
      Any car which holds together for a whole race is too heavy.

    14. Senior Member AZGolf's Avatar
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      07-03-2019 12:00 AM #63
      Quote Originally Posted by worth_fixing View Post
      who drives a full size truck with unloaded leaf springs as a luxury car? ride must suck; just get an A4.
      Ram 1500 has coil rears.



      And available load-dynamic air springs at all 4 corners in the luxury trims.


    15. 07-03-2019 12:23 AM #64
      Quote Originally Posted by worth_fixing View Post
      who drives a full size truck with unloaded leaf springs as a luxury car? ride must suck; just get an A4.
      You clearly haven’t driven a top trim full size in the past decade.

    16. Member worth_fixing's Avatar
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      07-03-2019 05:21 AM #65
      Quote Originally Posted by Rakshas View Post
      You clearly haven’t driven a top trim full size in the past decade.
      i have. and it drives like a pick up truck, which is totally normal. i can't think of any car that drives worse than the best pick up truck i've ever driven.
      http://badges.fuelly.com/images/sig-metric/286588.png
      Any car which holds together for a whole race is too heavy.

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      07-03-2019 05:34 AM #66
      Quote Originally Posted by worth_fixing View Post

      strippers are always the answer.
      QFT

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      07-03-2019 07:37 AM #67
      Silverado buyer here.
      The MD isn't helping bolster GMs numbers yet, and with the way their dealer network fumbles the upfit, maybe the MD sales won't help their numbers at all.
      Plus the contractors of the world are killing it right now, and the big Cummins and F450s are on the lots waiting to be bought.

      Quote Originally Posted by worth_fixing View Post
      who drives a full size truck with unloaded leaf springs as a luxury car? ride must suck; just get an A4.
      After that, what's left, small dick comments?

    19. Member dwagner88's Avatar
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      07-03-2019 08:07 AM #68
      Quote Originally Posted by worth_fixing View Post
      who drives a full size truck with unloaded leaf springs as a luxury car? ride must suck; just get an A4.
      Have you ever been to America? Every other vehicle outside the dense cities is a luxury pickup. Besides, the Ram has coils.
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      07-03-2019 09:22 AM #69
      Quote Originally Posted by worth_fixing View Post
      i have. and it drives like a pick up truck, which is totally normal. i can't think of any car that drives worse than the best pick up truck i've ever driven.
      Leave the hyperbole to me please, you are not very good at it. I drove a U Haul Sierra a few years back. It was nice. I came away from the experience thinking, "Trucks are not for me but I understand". I'm certain the game has moved forward in the pickup world since then.

    21. 07-03-2019 10:40 AM #70
      Quote Originally Posted by johntesi View Post
      With the latest redesign, RAM split the difference between the old and the new. Big, updated V8 and fan-freaking-tastic 8-speed auto. It is the truck-tuned powertrain that is beloved in musclecars everywhere. The Hemi is plenty modern to compete with the Ecoboost and plenty stout and old school to capture the traditionalists. BUT, they've added coils in the rear (first to do so), come out with what are objectively the best interiors in the full-size truck biz, and iterated with models that most people actually need.
      While I agree with everything else you said, the redesigned RAM does not have anything new in the powertrain or suspension department. (Other than Etorque and tweaks to the optional air-ride).

    22. 07-03-2019 10:42 AM #71
      Quote Originally Posted by Juiced6.3 View Post
      Ram also has the mild hybrid 48V system for the V8 and V6 that adds about 140lbs ft of torque.
      On the Hemi it increases towing capacity to 12,000lbs!!!

      light duty truck, best styling, best ride, and 19MPG with the hybrid Hemi.
      Choosing the optional E-torque reduces your max towing capacity by about 120lbs(The weight of the Etorque system). The most common misconception about E-torque is that it adds additional power to the engine. All it does is substitute electrical power for gas power in certain situations. Peak power numbers and the power curve is identical with or without Etorque.

    23. Member PlatinumGLS's Avatar
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      07-03-2019 10:49 AM #72
      Quote Originally Posted by worth_fixing View Post
      i have. and it drives like a pick up truck, which is totally normal. i can't think of any car that drives worse than the best pick up truck i've ever driven.


      The ride quality of our Ram (without air suspension) is better than any Mazda 3 I have ever been in. It's also better than the ride quality of my Challenger.

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      07-03-2019 02:22 PM #73
      Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
      While I agree with everything else you said, the redesigned RAM does not have anything new in the powertrain or suspension department. (Other than Etorque and tweaks to the optional air-ride).
      Sorry, was hammering this out while listening to a work call. Not all of the updates are new to the latest-gen RAM, but they have been ongoing and iterative in ways that combine V8 traditionalism with future-is-now tech. I'd skip the Etorque and enjoy the glorious Hemi as it is. The air-ride seems like a work-in-progress, but a darn good one for the right buyer. Either way, they did coils first and keep doing them + air ride on their newest chassis; they've proven that you can use coils and/or air and still build a half-ton pickup that tows/hauls more/better than the full-tons of a decade ago.

    25. 07-03-2019 03:03 PM #74
      Quote Originally Posted by worth_fixing View Post
      i have. and it drives like a pick up truck, which is totally normal. i can't think of any car that drives worse than the best pick up truck i've ever driven.
      I rented an F150 Lariat and it sure as **** didn't ride like a truck. The ride was far superior to my Focus RS (stock). The rear did bobble a little on certain types of bumps which betrayed the leaf springs, but I would expect this ram with a multilink coil rear to be as good as most passenger cars in the ride department.

    26. Member chois's Avatar
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      07-03-2019 03:12 PM #75
      As noted above, the % cash on the hood in June will ensure that Ram widens this lead over Chevy.
      15% off MSRP on tons of trucks.
      20% off earlier builds like mine.
      Before you even talk to the dealer about discounts.

      Ram is buying share right now.

      EDIT - had I bothered to read the sale thread before posting:

      FCA Reports June 2019 U.S. Sales

      FCA US reports best June retail sales in 18 years; best total sales in 14 years
      Ram pickup trucks notch record as sales jump 56 percent to 68,098 vehicles sold
      Jeep® Gladiator captures an estimated 7 percent of the mid-sized truck market in its first full month in dealerships
      Dodge Charger posts highest June sales in 12 years
      FCA ends monthly sales reporting; first quarterly report to occur Oct. 1
      FCA US LLC reported its best June in 14 years as total sales climbed 2 percent to 206,083 vehicles, driven by Ram pickup trucks which had its highest month of sales since the brand was detached from Dodge and launched as a standalone division in 2009.

      Sales of Ram pickups for June rose 56 percent to 68,098 vehicles. For the quarter, Ram pickup truck sales finished at 179,454 vehicles.

      Jeep® Gladiator sales reached 4,231 vehicles sold, which helped the nameplate capture an estimated 7 percent of the mid-sized truck market after only one full month on dealership lots.

      The Dodge Charger also reached its highest level since 2007 with sales of 9,034 vehicles.

      Overall, June retail sales for FCA US hit the highest level in 18 years with 156,588 vehicles sold. Fleet sales totaled 49,495 vehicles and accounted for 24 percent of total sales.
      Last edited by chois; 07-03-2019 at 03:15 PM.
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