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    Thread: Mustangs. Is anything safe?

    1. 07-12-2019 04:57 PM #26
      He braked between the 2 and 1 on the last lap

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    3. Planters (fasciitis) peanuts. Dang dogg Sold Over Sticker's Avatar
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      07-12-2019 04:59 PM #27
      Love the fangs out and target fixation combination. He really wanted to get that GT3, and he sure got him.
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      07-12-2019 05:02 PM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by AZGolf View Post
      These aren't terribly widely spaced braking points either
      I'd say they're pretty far apart. Enough that he missed ~60-80ft of braking compared to those other laps.

      (Who knew google earth had been on VIR?)

      Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
      yes, i am bored by FWD driving dynamics, and anyone who doesn't drive there cars to the limits and the beyond.

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      07-12-2019 05:11 PM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by Sold Over Sticker View Post
      Love the fangs out and target fixation combination. He really wanted to get that GT3, and he sure got him.
      Yeah. That Porsche would just launch off that corner before the long straight and leave him for dead.

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      07-12-2019 05:18 PM #30
      Mustangs got to trample that GT3

      Quote Originally Posted by Cousin Eddie View Post
      I'd say they're pretty far apart. Enough that he missed ~60-80ft of braking compared to those other laps.

      (Who knew google earth had been on VIR?)


      Yeah 80ft should not be a make it or brake it in a DE. Prior laps he was still cranking 150, Ice mode perhaps? Froze up?
      Last edited by TheDeckMan; 07-12-2019 at 05:20 PM.
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      07-12-2019 05:18 PM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by Cousin Eddie View Post
      I'd say they're pretty far apart. Enough that he missed ~60-80ft of braking compared to those other laps.

      (Who knew google earth had been on VIR?)
      IIRC, the braking markers at VIR are at 100 ft intervals.

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      07-12-2019 05:26 PM #32
      Where he first hit the brake pedal the lap before:



      Compared to where he first hit the brake pedal when he smoked the GT3. Quite a difference.

      Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
      yes, i am bored by FWD driving dynamics, and anyone who doesn't drive there cars to the limits and the beyond.

    9. Senior Member Cousin Eddie's Avatar
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      07-12-2019 05:32 PM #33
      I'd call ~80 to 120 ft of lost braking real estate pretty substantial at 150+ mph. Regardless of commuting, racing, HPDE.

      Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
      yes, i am bored by FWD driving dynamics, and anyone who doesn't drive there cars to the limits and the beyond.

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      07-12-2019 05:33 PM #34
      There is a bit of a crest there too- so carrying too much speed too deep not only means you are going too fast, but also decreases the grip for added braking at the crest.
      That's a hard way to learn that lesson.

      Any word on driver conditions after the crash?
      Both were pushing it pretty hard in some of those corners- getting a bit ragged.
      And curb hopping (and dirt throwing) should be seriously frowned upon at such events.

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      07-12-2019 05:34 PM #35
      I'm thinking this guy had a target top speed for the straight that he used for his braking reference and that's why he's looking down.

      "Alright hit 154mph ANNNNNDDD STAND ON THE BRAKES!"

      Not taking into account the traffic in the previous corner affecting his exit and thus his top speed.
      Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
      yes, i am bored by FWD driving dynamics, and anyone who doesn't drive there cars to the limits and the beyond.

    12. 07-12-2019 05:39 PM #36
      Or the condition of his brakes. Anchoring a Mustang down from 150+ lap after lap has to be hard on them. Plus if he was using MPH as a target and he got a poor exit, he'd need more distance to hit the same speed

      I doubt we will hear much from the drivers as there has to be a pending lawsuit

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      07-12-2019 05:50 PM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by Cousin Eddie View Post
      I'm thinking this guy had a target top speed for the straight that he used for his braking reference and that's why he's looking down.

      "Alright hit 154mph ANNNNNDDD STAND ON THE BRAKES!"

      Not taking into account the traffic in the previous corner affecting his exit and thus his top speed.
      I'm going to apply Occam's Razor here. Your theory is simply too complex to apply. From track events I've done, you could end up needing an extra 300+ feet to hit a specific speed if just the right thing changes from one lap to another. It's honestly not possible to run reliable lap times with such a horrendous notion of how to brake, not to mention the guy clearly has done a lot of track driving and wouldn't have lasted more than a couple minutes with such a method of driving.

      No, Occam's Razor insists the simplest explanation is the most likely. Here's human nature: "I wonder how fast I go at this track?" The way to get the answer to that is to glance at the speedometer at the fastest part of the track. He glanced at the speedometer at the fastest part of the track and missed his braking point by about three quarters of a second, which is the difference between making it and missing the turn.

      So the driver knows now, but for everyone else's benefit, never look at your speedometer while doing track events. It's incredibly tempting but don't do it, especially if you've got telemetry recording anyway and you can review afterwards to verify where you're going the fastest anyway.

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      07-12-2019 05:59 PM #38
      Anyone notice how the GT3 is doing a quick brakes check before the braking zone!

    15. Planters (fasciitis) peanuts. Dang dogg Sold Over Sticker's Avatar
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      07-12-2019 06:19 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by Senior Member View Post
      Anyone notice how the GT3 is doing a quick brakes check before the braking zone!
      My friends Cayman has 996 GT3 front brakes, and they tend to have a little pad knock back when they get really hot. If you just press the brakes they feel a little spongey. Press the brakes, release, and then get into them a second time and the pedal is rock hard. That might be what he's doing too.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Phillie Phanatic
      SoS - please shoot a message when Brendan & His Retarded Sycophants has another gig. I’ll be there, front row.

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      07-12-2019 06:43 PM #40

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      07-12-2019 06:50 PM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by Cousin Eddie View Post
      Where he first hit the brake pedal the lap before:



      Compared to where he first hit the brake pedal when he smoked the GT3. Quite a difference.

      Yeesh. Fastest part of the course is a bad place to brain-lock on where the braking point is.

      I’d like to hear from both the Mustang driver, AND the Porsche driver at some point. I also wonder if they know each other.
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      07-12-2019 09:18 PM #42
      4/5


    19. 07-13-2019 12:05 AM #43
      Not that it has anything to do with the outcome, but what's up with the way the GT3 was taking Oak Tree?

      Vince

    20. 07-13-2019 09:40 AM #44
      Sidebar, I hate VIR. Every other corner is some kind of slow nasty wart/pimple. Has the worst flow of damn near any track I've driven

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      07-13-2019 09:47 AM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Sidebar, I hate VIR. Every other corner is some kind of slow nasty wart/pimple. Has the worst flow of damn near any track I've driven
      It's in Virginia.
      Even the race tracks are not a fun place to drive.

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      07-13-2019 11:01 AM #46
      11/10ths
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      07-13-2019 11:17 AM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by Senior Member View Post
      Anyone notice how the GT3 is doing a quick brakes check before the braking zone!
      it's a braking technique. I do not remember the explanation but I've read of drivers doing it.

    24. Planters (fasciitis) peanuts. Dang dogg Sold Over Sticker's Avatar
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      07-13-2019 11:20 AM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by MaX PL View Post
      it's a braking technique. I do not remember the explanation but I've read of drivers doing it.
      It a way to mitigate pad knock back.
      Driving While Awesome Podcast. Give it a listen.
      Quote Originally Posted by Phillie Phanatic
      SoS - please shoot a message when Brendan & His Retarded Sycophants has another gig. I’ll be there, front row.

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      07-13-2019 11:25 AM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Sidebar, I hate VIR. Every other corner is some kind of slow nasty wart/pimple. Has the worst flow of damn near any track I've driven
      True, and that particular corner with this crash is poorly conceived... a very high speed straight with a kink that ensures that any brake failure will put you into the side of the guy several seconds in front of you. My experience is limited to about 5 tracks, but all the heavy braking zones tend to lead into a 1) wall, 2) field, 3) sand pit. All of which mean your failure is mostly your own (or anyone you are immediately behind). Whereas this one pretty much puts a side target on all the cars that successfully negotiated the turn well ahead of you.

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      07-13-2019 02:12 PM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by Sold Over Sticker View Post
      My friends Cayman has 996 GT3 front brakes, and they tend to have a little pad knock back when they get really hot. If you just press the brakes they feel a little spongey. Press the brakes, release, and then get into them a second time and the pedal is rock hard. That might be what he's doing too.
      Quote Originally Posted by MaX PL View Post
      it's a braking technique. I do not remember the explanation but I've read of drivers doing it.
      Besides knock, it's also to check for bite and pedal travel before heavy braking zones, after 11/10th lapping. The last thing you want is to find out that you have no brakes at the braking marker.

      It's also possibly that the driver simply spaced-out, it happened to me at Monticello. After 25 minutes of lapping, as I was passing by the braking cone, my brain went "he dude, shouldn't you be braking by now" "oh snap" luckily I didn't panic or yank the wheel, I just went on a quick farming tour and recovered.

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