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    Thread: EA888 Gen 3 Crank Walk Issues for 6MT Ownerz

    1. Member oTurtlez's Avatar
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      07-18-2019 07:20 AM #1
      So there has been quite a bit of discussion regarding the issue of crank walk on this platform for the 6MT owners. What's odd is I can almost only ever find it being mentioned or happening to GTI owners, particularly early builds, though I did see one '17 owner have the issue creep up. The one constant is an upgraded clutch with a stiff pressure plate.

      I'm curious if there has been any 6MT R owners that have experienced this issue and if so what story do you have to share? I'm starting to get a bit paranoid having a 6MT R with a DKM twin disk which supposedly has one of the stiffer pressure plates on the market. If anyone has anything to share please do!
      Last edited by oTurtlez; 07-18-2019 at 09:09 AM. Reason: Ownerz to Owners; damn phones.
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      07-18-2019 08:51 AM #2
      Damn. Here's to hoping my OE clutch lasts through the warranty period. :>

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      07-18-2019 09:02 AM #3
      I'm a regular member of a large and active (almost 20k members) MQB Facebook group and never hear about this.

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    6. Member oTurtlez's Avatar
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      07-18-2019 09:11 AM #4
      Quote Originally Posted by biglilsteve View Post
      I'm a regular member of a large and active (almost 20k members) MQB Facebook group and never hear about this.

      Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk
      As am I; for reference I've seen plenty of talk about this is in the VW Mk7 Golf - GTI - R - MQB group with over 19k members.

      I'm just trying to see if the issue is isolated to the GTI's of the world like the strange fuel injector sticking issue that was happening to early build date GTI's as well.
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      07-18-2019 09:30 AM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by oTurtlez View Post
      As am I; for reference I've seen plenty of talk about this is in the VW Mk7 Golf - GTI - R - MQB group with over 19k members.

      I'm just trying to see if the issue is isolated to the GTI's of the world like the strange fuel injector sticking issue that was happening to early build date GTI's as well.
      Wow yeah that's the group I'm talking about. Interesting.

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    8. Member MiamiBourne's Avatar
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      07-18-2019 09:36 AM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by oTurtlez View Post
      So there has been quite a bit of discussion regarding the issue of crank walk on this platform for the 6MT owners. What's odd is I can almost only ever find it being mentioned or happening to GTI owners, particularly early builds, though I did see one '17 owner have the issue creep up. The one constant is an upgraded clutch with a stiff pressure plate.

      I'm curious if there has been any 6MT R owners that have experienced this issue and if so what story do you have to share? I'm starting to get a bit paranoid having a 6MT R with a DKM twin disk which supposedly has one of the stiffer pressure plates on the market. If anyone has anything to share please do!
      I've read about this also. One member on the GolfMK7 actually was saying that the DKM Twin Disk is more prone because it has a stiffer pressure plate. I'm not sold on it being related to an aftermarket clutch 'only' though. I mean...if you tune and have a 6MT you are going to add a clutch. Also...people who have been stock have had crank walk as well. The chances of an owner having modded their car and having an aftermarket clutch is high I think.

      Now can an aftermarket clutch accelerate the issue? Maybe, but my understanding is that it's initially a fault from the factory that will eventually fail.

      Quote Originally Posted by biglilsteve View Post
      Wow yeah that's the group I'm talking about. Interesting.

      Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk
      Do a search in the group of 'crank walk' and you will see the posts.

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      07-18-2019 09:48 AM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by MiamiBourne View Post
      ... Now can an aftermarket clutch accelerate the issue? Maybe, but my understanding is that it's initially a fault from the factory that will eventually fail.
      Absolutely. The increased spring force from an upgraded pressure plate puts that much more force on the crankshaft. The thrust bearing could easily only be set up to handle the forces of the stock system.

      The engine in the R is significantly different internally than the GTI though, so here's to hoping...

      All that said, because an aftermarket clutch increases the wear, this would absolutely be grounds for a warranty denial in the event you have catastrophic engine failure with an aftermarket clutch equipped.

    10. Member S1ack's Avatar
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      07-18-2019 10:18 AM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by oTurtlez View Post
      I'm curious if there has been any 6MT R owners that have experienced this issue and if so what story do you have to share?
      '16 6MT here, EQT Turbo (COBB) with supporting mods. RSR Clutch. I've noticed nothing out of the ordinary

      Crank walk sounds like it's catastrophic - with no warning. Or is there something that I/we can check prior that indicates?
      If you are going at a speed that causes you to run off the road before ESC can provide any assistance, you may not experience the benefits of ESC

    11. 07-18-2019 10:35 AM #9
      There are what, 1 million plus EA 888 gen 3's that have been made and no i've never heard of "crank walk" on these engines. Sure, thrust bearings do wear (usually due to oiling issues at high rpms), and there can be a few manufacturing defects here and there but no i dont think "crank walk" is an issue on these engines.

    12. Member Diggs24's Avatar
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      07-18-2019 10:45 AM #10
      Well, a couple things.

      1. Seems to be isolated to 2014 build GTI's mainly (model year 2015 here in the states).
      2. 2015 Rs were all DSG over here in the states so if there were R's affected built in 2014 you wouldn't be hearing about it over here.
      3. "The engine in the R is significantly different internally than the GTI though". No, it's not. Unlikely that the thrust bearing is different since they share the same crank.

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      07-18-2019 10:54 AM #11
      It's my understanding that the issue is mostly for Mexican built 2015 GTIs and some very early 2016s. I don't recall hearing any issues with the golf R.

    14. Member Diggs24's Avatar
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      07-18-2019 11:15 AM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by PwrUsr View Post
      It's my understanding that the issue is mostly for Mexican built 2015 GTIs and some very early 2016s. I don't recall hearing any issues with the golf R.
      The motors aren't built in Mexico, so car assembly location is irrelevant. I would say more relevant is the engine code.

    15. Member scmarchy's Avatar
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      07-18-2019 11:32 AM #13
      can't say i've heard of anyone having this issue. but subbing for interest haha.
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      07-18-2019 11:44 AM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by Diggs24 View Post
      3. "The engine in the R is significantly different internally than the GTI though". No, it's not. Unlikely that the thrust bearing is different since they share the same crank.
      The head is completely different. Valves, cams, metals used, etc.

      The block is different at least with pistons and the piston oilers being higher bore. Higher bore on piston oilers means more oil flow is needed, generally, so it would stand to reason that the oil pump in the R is

      I recall reading somewhere that the crankshaft is different as well as far as the alloy or fabrication method, which would absolutely call for different bearing materials and/or strengths. This is conjecture until I find actual literature on it again, however.

      If I free up at some point today I'd be more than happy to search for all the differences between the CHHB and CJXB engines.

    17. Member KevinC's Avatar
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      07-18-2019 12:01 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by Diggs24 View Post
      The motors aren't built in Mexico, so car assembly location is irrelevant. I would say more relevant is the engine code.


      http://www.latinotrafficreport.com/c...2018-golf-gti/

      GTI engine built in Silao, R motor still built in Hungary.

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    18. Member oTurtlez's Avatar
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      07-18-2019 12:05 PM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by asellus View Post
      Absolutely. The increased spring force from an upgraded pressure plate puts that much more force on the crankshaft. The thrust bearing could easily only be set up to handle the forces of the stock system.

      The engine in the R is significantly different internally than the GTI though, so here's to hoping...

      All that said, because an aftermarket clutch increases the wear, this would absolutely be grounds for a warranty denial in the event you have catastrophic engine failure with an aftermarket clutch equipped.
      I would agree with you saying that VWoA would deny any warranty claims if they discover an aftermarket clutch, it's definitely something they could point to as a cause or exacerbation of the issue.

      Quote Originally Posted by S1ack View Post
      '16 6MT here, EQT Turbo (COBB) with supporting mods. RSR Clutch. I've noticed nothing out of the ordinary

      Crank walk sounds like it's catastrophic - with no warning. Or is there something that I/we can check prior that indicates?
      It seems that the first warning sign is a crank position sensor code, then a reduced oil pressure code, and some people report a weird feeling in the clutch pedal while shifting after a hard right turn lol. Oddly specific but likely due to the oiling system.

      Quote Originally Posted by o1turbo20v View Post
      There are what, 1 million plus EA 888 gen 3's that have been made and no i've never heard of "crank walk" on these engines. Sure, thrust bearings do wear (usually due to oiling issues at high rpms), and there can be a few manufacturing defects here and there but no i dont think "crank walk" is an issue on these engines.
      And how many of those EA888's are attached to manual transmissions that are being modified?

      Quote Originally Posted by Diggs24 View Post
      Well, a couple things.

      1. Seems to be isolated to 2014 build GTI's mainly (model year 2015 here in the states).
      2. 2015 Rs were all DSG over here in the states so if there were R's affected built in 2014 you wouldn't be hearing about it over here.
      3. "The engine in the R is significantly different internally than the GTI though". No, it's not. Unlikely that the thrust bearing is different since they share the same crank.
      Precisely my thinking Diggs. I've been keeping an eye on the conversations in the groups and up to this point I'm pretty sure I've only seen GTI's being mentioned and particularly early build dates, other than that one 2017 GTI that seemed to have the issue. It's just odd that if all the parts are shared which is the most likely case, that we haven't been seeing this issue in the 6MT R's which a high percentage of likely have aftermarket clutches.

      End of the day, this post is here for those to discuss the issue and ideally for anyone who has had experience with the issue on the R's to chime in.

      Quote Originally Posted by KevinC View Post

      http://www.latinotrafficreport.com/c...2018-golf-gti/

      GTI engine built in Silao, R motor still built in Hungary.
      Interesting... It very well could be a case of poor workmanship locked to the region of production.
      Last edited by oTurtlez; 07-18-2019 at 12:08 PM.
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    19. Member Diggs24's Avatar
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      07-18-2019 12:29 PM #17
      Oh look an ******* posting ******* gifs. Forgot to put you on ignore over here too. Done. Go back to your hole.

      My apologies, it's the DSG that's from Germany.

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      07-18-2019 01:03 PM #18
      replace the plastic throw-out bearing with a metal one = problem solved?
      I haven't done my clutch yet, but was going to order one when I am ready

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      07-18-2019 01:18 PM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by Rudy_H View Post
      replace the plastic throw-out bearing with a metal one = problem solved?
      I haven't done my clutch yet, but was going to order one when I am ready
      Unrelated. The part in question is the thrust bearing, which sits between the main cap and crankshaft, usually around journal #3 if equipped with only one.

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      07-18-2019 01:32 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by asellus View Post
      Unrelated. The part in question is the thrust bearing, which sits between the main cap and crankshaft, usually around journal #3 if equipped with only one.
      The issue is with the aftermarket pressure plates no? The aftermarket pressure plates have been destroying, and noted since at least the MK6's.
      Could the plastic ones be causing an issue that is produced later down the drive train? Several technical articles noted that a failing throw out bearing could cause crank walk, which could then result in the symptoms described.

    23. Member oTurtlez's Avatar
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      07-18-2019 01:39 PM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by Rudy_H View Post
      The issue is with the aftermarket pressure plates no? The aftermarket pressure plates have been destroying, and noted since at least the MK6's.
      Could the plastic ones be causing an issue that is produced later down the drive train? Several technical articles noted that a failing throw out bearing could cause crank walk, which could then result in the symptoms described.
      The consensus as of now on the issue is the primary opportunity for wear is during start up, particularly cold starts as there's minimal oil on the bearings. What happens is you push the clutch pedal in which applies a force to the crankshaft away from the transmission. Then, when you go to start the car there is minimal oil on those crucial bearings in addition to an added force in the longitudinal direction along the crank. This extra pressure causes undue stress and wear to the components in question which are not lubricated until the engine is running.

      While the throwout bearing is the single part that's pushing on the pressure plate and thus the crankshaft, the issue is with stiffer pressure plates in aftermarket clutches requiring more pedal pressure which translates to a larger longitudinal force being applied to the crankshaft. Bigger force = more friction = more wear.
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      07-18-2019 01:48 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by oTurtlez View Post
      The consensus as of now on the issue is the primary opportunity for wear is during start up, particularly cold starts as there's minimal oil on the bearings. What happens is you push the clutch pedal in which applies a force to the crankshaft away from the transmission. Then, when you go to start the car there is minimal oil on those crucial bearings in addition to an added force in the longitudinal direction along the crank. This extra pressure causes undue stress and wear to the components in question which are not lubricated until the engine is running.

      While the throwout bearing is the single part that's pushing on the pressure plate and thus the crankshaft, the issue is with stiffer pressure plates in aftermarket clutches requiring more pedal pressure which translates to a larger longitudinal force being applied to the crankshaft. Bigger force = more friction = more wear.
      This.

      If only it were as simple as shorting a switch to override the clutch starter interlock. :\

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      07-18-2019 05:22 PM #23
      Good read. Good to know information.

      Although I have a '19 R, I think I'll try to make a habit of cranking in neutral and letting the clutch out as soon has it fires - just for piece of mind.
      2019 R, 6mt, Lapiz Blue, short shifter, JB4.

    26. Member abeans's Avatar
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      07-18-2019 06:56 PM #24
      Pictures of failure, or bottom end in general?
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    27. 07-18-2019 08:37 PM #25
      reminds me of my old s2ki.com days with these topics lol i pray the R is not prone to crank walk... subbed for info for sure...
      2018 Golf R IGM 6spd

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